Television Vs. Book: Why'd They Make [Spoiler] Such A [Spoiler]?

[Winnief]

No, it really couldn't be such a person, since nobody like that has been cast, and Sansa's going to Winterfell all season.

 

 

How do we know its all season?

[Hecate7]

If Sansa's at Winterfell all season, then really the only way the story remains about her, is if she's the fake Arya. Sorry but that's the next part of the story. There was a Jeyne Poole cast season one and for some reason they are not using her, probably because they realized we really don't care about more torture unless it moves the plot forward.

 

Let's face it, if you are going to spend any significant amount of time at all at Winterfell under Ramsey, you are either going to be abused by him, or you're going to get to help him abuse others. What you will NOT get to do, is repair to the back room with your highly visible guards and your uncle, and plot against Ramsey undisturbed.

 

If Ramsey were not a complete psycho, a marriage to him would make sense, since the Karstarks are out of the question and Ramsey is the Bolton heir now.

[Brn2bwild]

I think it's possible Sansa is a guest at fake Arya's wedding precisely to see whether fArya is, in fact, her sister. 

[SeanC]

If Ramsey were not a complete psycho, a marriage to him would make sense, since the Karstarks are out of the question and Ramsey is the Bolton heir now.

If you mean marriage as a way to gain power, not really -- their interests are diametrically opposed.  But in any event, from the trailer it seems like the point is to get revenge on the Boltons.

[Hecate7]

He has Winterfell. Who do you think Sansa should marry to obtain Winterfell, if not him?

 

To me, it looks as if Littlefinger is using the idea of vengeance to coax Sansa into the castle.
 

I think it's possible Sansa is a guest at fake Arya's wedding precisely to see whether fArya is, in fact, her sister.

 

Sansa has never even asked anyone to look for Arya. She showed some surprise at the idea that Arya was alive, but then asked no further questions and didn't show any curiosity at all. It would make sense if she asked Littlefinger to take her to see if it's true, except that Fake Arya is literally someone Littlefinger trained and provided from his personal stock--Jeyne Poole became one of his girls during the purge, and he is the one who placed her at Winterfell to allow the Boltons to make their claim permanent and indisputable by marrying her. She would still have to yield to Bran or Rickon, but as far as anyone knows, they are both dead, so that would never happen.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Hecate7

[Brn2bwild]

In this version, fArya could be a servant girl whom House Bolton has set up to be "Arya."  Then Littlefinger would have had no involvement.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Brn2bwild

[Hecate7]

In this version, fArya could be a servant girl whom House Bolton has set up to be "Arya."  Then Littlefinger would have had no involvement.

That really whitewashes him.

 

It also removes some agency from him. It is really baffling that he would leave the safety of the impregnable Vale, and head for vulnerable Winterfell, unless he's there to make some kind of deal. What's he got, that they'd want? What have they got, that he'd want?  What do EITHER set of parties have, that Sansa wants? For her to be "staying alive for her brothers" suggests that not staying alive would be easier. It also suggests that someone tells her that Bran and Rickon are alive.

[SeanC]

It is really baffling that he would leave the safety of the impregnable Vale, and head for vulnerable Winterfell, unless he's there to make some kind of deal. What's he got, that they'd want? What have they got, that he'd want?  What do EITHER set of parties have, that Sansa wants?

Again, we see in the trailer: they're their to "avenge them", in Littlefinger's words (or at least, that's how he's selling it).  And what the Boltons have that Sansa and Littlefinger want is self-evident: the North. Likewise, Littlefinger has the resources of the Vale.

 

It's looking like Sansa is meant to be Ramsey's fiancee, but it will be as Alayne, not as fake Arya.

Edited March 30, 2015 by SeanC

[Winnief]

And for the record while Sansa's going North, promos and stills make it clear that Littlefinger's headed back to KL, (and having a confrontation with Olenna at the brothel)-probably to get him involved in the upcoming Cersei/Margaery drama. 

[John Potts]

LF sees Sansa as his replacement Catelyn so he's not giving her up... unless it buys him some greater advantage. If selling Sansa to Ramsay brought him closer to real power, he'd do it in a heartbeat, but not otherwise.

Edited March 30, 2015 by John Potts

[ChaseMCP]

Honestly, I'm gonna try to not worry too much about Sansa's story cause as weird as it may end up being, D&D are kinda stuck with the books not being finished. I'm curious about what happens, but I'll wait til the first couple episodes before making a big judgement.

Meanwhile, I've been excited to see what happens to Brienne, Jaime, Arya, Jon, and more, but after watching the promos recently, I've realized I'm actually really excited to see Jorah's story. I don't recall, will the show have scenes with him and Tyrion? Mainly I want to see Peter and Iain work together, but I also hope he brings more life to Dany's (probable) dull scenes (since promos show him eventually reaching her storyline).

That reminds me, I'm actually glad that in an effort to get the story moving faster, D&D are pushing storylines together so that more characters will interact with each other. God knows I'm finally ready for Dany to make another connection to Westeros, even if she doesn't get there (yet?). I understand why the books don't do it as much, but that's an advantage the show has and I'm glad it is using it.

[benteen]

Agreed.  D&D have been doing a very good job pushing these characters together.  Seeing Brienne and Arya meet was thrilling and their brief interaction was perfect.  Add to that an awesome fight between Brienne and the Hound and you had a major highlight for the show.

 

I suspect we won't get any kind of Stark reunion this year but I would definitely think it's in the works for Season 6.

[Hecate7]

Agreed.  D&D have been doing a very good job pushing these characters together.  Seeing Brienne and Arya meet was thrilling and their brief interaction was perfect.  Add to that an awesome fight between Brienne and the Hound and you had a major highlight for the show.

 

I suspect we won't get any kind of Stark reunion this year but I would definitely think it's in the works for Season 6.

 

There's not a whole lot left to reunite. So far each book has shed a Stark. Ned died in the first book. Kat and Robb in the next one. Bran isn't dead but he might as well be--he's a tree. Sansa's no longer Sansa. Jon Snow has been stabbed. Arya is becoming a Faceless Man. She occasionally enjoys killing people not on the menu, in memory of her extinct tribe, but basically she's a Faceless Man in training. Rickon, (if he hasn't been eaten for being an underage foreigner running around in Skagos with a scary wounded wolf and a threatening escort), does not all by himself constitute a reunion.

 

I would have been very excited to see Tyrion meet Jorah, and this might still happen. I was excited for this season, thinking there would be Penny and we'd see Tyrion actually caring about someone he can't get sex, fighterly protection, money, or status from. I was super-excited about Frey pie, and about a certain monologue about a trebuchet. All of that's off. I am still pretty stoked about seeing Maggy the Frog, and I am sort of middling excited about whatever it is they're doing in Dorne.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Hecate7

[Winnief]

http://watchersonthewall.com/the-telegraph-interviews-jessica-henwick-and-rosabell-laurenti-sellers/#more-28905

 

Nice to know they're keeping Dorne's egalitarian gender roles-and it may well be that the fact that an older sister can inherit before a younger brother is something that well be a plot point next season regarding Myrcella...

[Maximum Taco]

http://watchersonthewall.com/the-telegraph-interviews-jessica-henwick-and-rosabell-laurenti-sellers/#more-28905

 

Nice to know they're keeping Dorne's egalitarian gender roles-and it may well be that the fact that an older sister can inherit before a younger brother is something that well be a plot point next season regarding Myrcella...

 

Well I think they'd have to. Myrcella doesn't really have anything to do in Dorne without the plot to crown her. And if they weren't going to do anything with Myrcella I don't know why they'd have bothered recasting her.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Hecate7]

It occurs to me to wonder who's minding the store at the Vale. Anyone know?

 

Because I think Littlefinger has made a huge error leaving the place. He might return to find it occupied by Shagga, son of Dolf.

[Winnief]

My guess is Bronze Yohn Royce would get custody of SweetRobin and be the one in charge.

[Hecate7]

Well, leaving castles with insufficient protection has already proved fatal to one family. I wonder if there's going to be a pattern now. Leaving the Eyrie unattended would actually seem pretty safe, given its architecture, but you never know.

[Winnief]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/arts/sophie-turner-and-maisie-williams-have-grown-up-on-game-of-thrones.html?_r=0

 

Some cool stuff in there.  It does sound interesting that both actresses see their characters as becoming more powerful and bigger players this season, but that their paths are not going to be sunny ones.

 

On another note, I'm happy that both of them are getting some roles outside the show, and can I say how happy I am that they were the ones who cast?!?  I literally cannot imagine anyone else as Sansa and Arya.  They are the Stark sisters. 

 

Edited to add this link to the following interviews...

 

http://watchersonthewall.com/interviews-with-liam-cunningham-carice-van-houten-and-lena-headey/

 

Would definitely like to see more Davos/Shireen and it certainly sounds like Melisandre might have an epiphany about who AA really is...maybe at the same time she resurrects Jon?!?  (I think the resurrection will take place on screen this season and probably be how they end it-they're not to wait ten months on a silly cliffhanger when everyone's already gonna *know* Kit's coming back.)

 

But what I'm really hyped for is Cersei/Olenna.  BRING IT ON!!!

Edited April 2, 2015 by Winnief

[jjjmoss]

Well GRRM finally lets us hear from Sansa since a decade ago...but basically nothing interesting happens in the preview chapter, such that I feel it's unlikely to exist on the show.

[Advance35]

I liked the released Sansa Chapter.  I think it was an introduction to the Vale Characters before the intrigueing starts.  Myranda wants Harry and is being denied him by Lady Waynwood AND LF.   Myranda and Alayne are TENTATIVELY friends (in part because Myranda really wanted Harry), Robin has become even MORE possessive of Alayne and displays a little resentment/jealousy for Tommen Baratheon, LF and Alayne (though initially her idea) have decided to Host a Tourney, to secure more swords and men at arms for Lord Robin (and themselves) while also taking the time to cozy up to and take the temperature of Vale Nobility.  

 

I thought I detected a little chemistry between Alayne and Lady Waynwoods son "Ronnel", he had a very Garlan Tyrell vibe to him, but it's Harry, Sansa needs and she did a good job in catching his eye.   She was cheeky and flirtatious.

 

Also cool how Littlefinger is already working to consolidate what will soon be the best form of currency when Winter REALLY hits, food.   I liked it but for budgetary reasons I can see why the show can't move forward with Vale plotlines.   Shame since I really like what we've seen so far.

[jjjmoss]

Even as a Queen Sansa stan, I found it to be her least interesting chapter since her father died. Might be worse than some of the ones before that too...

[Winnief]

I admit it wasn't a tremendously interesting chapter, (and I can definitely see why the showrunners think it would be more exciting to get her to WF,) but we did learn a few things.

 

a.  Harry's a douche-and almost certainly a red herring.  He's not who Sansa's going to end up with.  But again we knew that since he never made the show.

 

b. The Mouse may be plotting to 'steal' Sansa away.  Since he doesn't make the show though that isn't relevant to the show.

 

c.  Sansa is definitely becoming the femme fatale of the family AND the one with the talent for politics.  Obviously that's the direction they're headed on the show, but it is good to see the show really is basing that on her story arc from the books. 

 

A couple reviews of Season 5 if you wanna check them out.

http://watchersonthewall.com/first-reviews-of-game-of-thrones-season-5/

[benteen]

I wasn't crazy about it but it was nice to read it and nice to read Sansa again.  I have to admit she's getting very good at snark. 

 

Fingers crossed that Shadrich doesn't kidnap Sansa.  I don't want to read another 400-page travelogue by GRRM where he can revel in world-building.  The first Sansa chapter reveled in that.

[loki567]

I thought it was a pretty enjoyable chapter. I felt like it did a better job sketching out the dynamics of the Vale than anything I remember from the previous books. But it was slow enough that I'm pretty sure that the series isn't ending in two more installments.

 

Sansa felt pretty developed to me. Parsing out motivations of the various Vale players, continually on her guard about her fake backstory as Alayne, coming up with the Winged Knights plan, doing a pretty good job of gaining Harry's interest. Her detractors always paint her as too immature and that she's basically going to be a toy for the rest of the series, but that chapter felt to me like GRRM is heading more towards her being some sort of political player moving forward. 

[Winnief]

I thought it was a pretty enjoyable chapter. I felt like it did a better job sketching out the dynamics of the Vale than anything I remember from the previous books. But it was slow enough that I'm pretty sure that the series isn't ending in two more installments.

 

Sadly that was my impression as well.  I really do think Martin will need at least eight books to finish the series now and it definitely confirms that D&D were wise to skip over much of the Vale storyline and get Sansa north for whatever is set to happen up there.

 

 

Her detractors always paint her as too immature and that she's basically going to be a toy for the rest of the series, but that chapter felt to me like GRRM is heading more towards her being some sort of political player moving forward.

Precisely.  I also find it reassuring that Sansa will *not* have to marry Ramsay next scene but will be at WF as a spy/guest to observe and make contact with the Northern lords.  Which isn't to say she won't be in peril at some point this coming season, but thankfully we will probably avoid seeing her be Ramsay's latest plaything. 

 

And the contrast to Arya's "mercy" chapter throws things into (pun intended) stark relief.  Arya is being trained to be the assassin of the family, but Sansa is on a apprenticeship to be the politician/diplomat.  If Sansa is likely to be re-united with Jon before Arya it's probably in part because Jon might soon have need of a political advisor more than another trained killer in the near future...while Arya might have some killing to be done elsewhere.

[SeanC]

Sadly that was my impression as well.  I really do think Martin will need at least eight books to finish the series now and it definitely confirms that D&D were wise to skip over much of the Vale storyline and get Sansa north for whatever is set to happen up there.

I really don't see how it confirms that at all.  We won't know that until we can compare the stories.  If the Vale storyline is great and D&D completely botch her character in season 5, then it won't have been a great decision.

 

It's also pretty clear that Sansa is going to be Ramsay's betrothed, and his new plaything.  There's nobody else who could fill either of those roles, realistically, nor does it make much sense from a dramatic standpoint to assign those functions to some extra.

[Winnief]

Do we know that Ramsay is getting a betrothal though?!?  I mean it now looks like the three weddings were Dany/Hizdar, Tommen/Margaery, and Myrcella/Trystane.  The so called spoiler about a wedding at Winterfell has been debunked...I wonder if they may not have decided to scrap the whole fArya/Jeyne Poole thing altogether.

[SeanC]

Do we know that Ramsay is getting a betrothal though?!?  I mean it now looks like the three weddings were Dany/Hizdar, Tommen/Margaery, and Myrcella/Trystane.  The so called spoiler about a wedding at Winterfell has been debunked...I wonder if they may not have decided to scrap the whole fArya/Jeyne Poole thing altogether.

There's been a whole new wave of leaked screener spoilers today (you can see them over at the Westeros.org Season 5 casting threads), which have confirmed that Sansa and Ramsay are now betrothed.  Moreover, they've confirmed that Sansa is betrothed as Sansa, not as Alayne; Littlefinger introduces her as Sansa to the Boltons from the beginning.

 

Also, Brienne is going North to Winterfell, and Tommen gets laid, apparently.

Edited April 3, 2015 by SilverStormm
Please do not post these spoilers here untagged.

[Advance35]

Well it looks like LF is definitely maneuvering to undermine the Iron Throne.   I assume this is his ultimate play in the Novels and the show runners are just massively streamlining the whole thing.  I think it's understandable considering this show only has 2 more seasons to tell all of these stories.  

 

I can see both House Frey and House Bolton turning on the Lannisters now that Tywin is gone.  I don't even think that would be too hard a sell.   If he can convince the Vale to act as support, promising them future retribution (the way he and Tywin decided they would punish the Tyrells someday) I could see the Lords Declarant agreeing to work with The CURRENT Great Houses of the Riverlands and The North.    3 regions united,  Everyone else would be fighting their own corner.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Sansa mix with the Winterfell set.   I think they'll allow the dynamic between Ramsay/Sansa to be more than torture.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Advance35

[loki567]

Westeros.org seems to have deleted any spoiler threads. What is this forum's policy on spoilers with the show outpacing the books? Just in case:

 

I have zero faith a Sansa/Ramsey storyline going well. I hope to God that the rape controversy last season keeps them in check somewhat.

Edited April 3, 2015 by loki567

[Meredith Quill]

Westeros.org seems to have deleted any spoiler threads. What is this forum's policy on spoilers with the show outpacing the books? Just in case:

 

I have zero faith a Sansa/Ramsey storyline going well. I hope to God that the rape controversy last season keeps them in check somewhat.

 

Once it's aired it is not considered a spoiler. Looking ahead, anyone who doesn't want to know what happens on the show would be wise not to risk coming into this forum.

[Hecate7]

The problem last season was that it was out of character for both that character in general, and that relationship in particular. It's less of an issue this season, since it's not out of character at all for someone like Ramsey, Littlefinger, Sweetrobin, or The Mountain. There are a host of villains for whom it would be perfectly natural. But since the showrunners are unclear on the definition of rape, we could see another completely out of character, not in the books rape that they think is romantic.

[Holmbo]

Anyone else feel like if Tommen and Margery consummate their wedding it will mean Margaery is going to lose her trial? I just feel that losing her virginity (officially) would be a huge change from her character in the book and that it probably means she's not going to be around long enough for it to matter.

[Maximum Taco]

Anyone else feel like if Tommen and Margery consummate their wedding it will mean Margaery is going to lose her trial? I just feel that losing her virginity (officially) would be a huge change from her character in the book and that it probably means she's not going to be around long enough for it to matter.

 

Can Tommen consummate his marriage?

 

Remember Book Tommen is currently 9.

[Holmbo]

That is my point. Tommen and Margaery won't consummate their marriage in the books so if they do it on the show I'm thinking it's a huge difference for Margaerys story and might mean that she's not sticking around long enough for this change to matter.

[Advance35]

So you think Margaery WONT be arrested by the Faith?

 

I get what you mean about the ramifications of consummation, that's how Margaery ends up in peril, claiming to be a maid.   Could she be trying to hang her with infidelity or would that be too Anne Boelyn?

 

If the show doesn't do the Queen Trials then I assume, in the books Margaery will be found innocent and will go on to play a role in the finale of the novels.

[Holmbo]

What I'm saying is that if Margaery where to be proclaimed innocent at her trial in the book she'd still officially be a maid and able to marry someone else should Tommen be killed. But if the show changes this by having her have sex with Tommen I think that she's not going to be around long enough for that to matter.

And of course the accusations of the trial would have to be a bit different but that's another matter.

[Winnief]

What I'm saying is that if Margaery where to be proclaimed innocent at her trial in the book she'd still officially be a maid and able to marry someone else should Tommen be killed. But if the show changes this by having her have sex with Tommen I think that she's not going to be around long enough for that to matter.

 

Agreed.  I think Margaery was doomed the minute her family made that alliance with the Lannister's.  I'm not sure if she'll die because she loses her trial or by some other means, (no doubt started by Cersei,) but her days are numbered.

[Shanna]

Why would she need to be a maid to marry someone else unless you think she's going to marry yet another prince? She can be a widow and marry a random person with no issues. Like Cersei, without the age issues.

I don't know what they're Doing with Margery in the books but I actually have not been thinking she would be arrested. But maybe it's just that I don't want it to happen because it seems like a retread of the Cersei stuff. I don't want the faith doing nothing but trials of adultery/etc. If they are going to be a player they should be doing something else otherwise what is the point?

Edited April 4, 2015 by Shanna

[Featherhat]

If she could say she had slept with her husband Tommen during their marriage, that would be ok, she hasn't broken any rules (and since Tommen looks late teens in the show, way less creepy than in the books, in terms of him not being a pre teen and actually interested) and thus can't be forced into a trial via not being a maid, because it was all within the Faith. If/when Tommen dies she would probably even expect to marry well in a high born widows circumstances. It would literally have to be an Anne Boleyn, storyline if they wanted to go that route on the show, well we know Natalie Dormer has experience with that at least and I can see Cersei trying to manufacture just this plot point.

 

If she could say she had slept with her husband Tommen during their marriage, that would be ok, she hasn't broken any rules (and since Tommen looks late teens in the show, way less creepy than in the books) and thus can't be forced into a trial via not being a maid, because it was all within the Faith. If/when Tommen dies she would probably even expect to marry well in a high born widows circumstances. It would literally have to be an Anne Boleyn, storyline if they wanted to go that route on the show, well we know Natalie Dormer has experience with that at least and I can see Cersei trying to manufacture just this plot point.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Featherhat

[blixie]

So I just read a story on Salon about Season 5 and are they going to 

cut Griff out? It says Tyrion's story is remapped and a whole "raft" heh of minor characters are cut out? Because if so I take this as sign he's FAKEY FAKE FAKITY ASS FAKE.

and I could not be happier with that as change, and also not be more annoyed about having had to read through all that crap.

[Avaleigh]

So I'm guessing the character of Moqorro is completely off of the table? Damn, I liked the addition of him as a contrast to Melisandre plus I liked the brand of creepiness that he brought with him. The way the monkeys freak out and abandon ship once he starts doing his chanting or whatever? I feel like they could still include him even without Victarion but I doubt it'll happen. 

 

Agreed.  I think Margaery was doomed the minute her family made that alliance with the Lannister's.  I'm not sure if she'll die because she loses her trial or by some other means, (no doubt started by Cersei,) but her days are numbered.

To me it only makes sense for her character to die. Something has to kick off the chaos in KL and IMO this is one of the best ways to do it. 

[Lady S.]

To me it only makes sense for her character to die. Something has to kick off the chaos in KL and IMO this is one of the best ways to do it.

Die after her trial, you mean? The High Sparrow is a mysognist but also a political operator with the way he got Cersei to re-arm the Faith. He's already co-operating more with Marg's camp by releasing her to Tarly's custody, and that probably has as much to do with the Tyrell army and their support by the citizens than with the weakness of her case. I don't think he even wants Cersei convicted of all charges, having her found guilty of the incest makes a R'hllor worshipping heretic Robert's true heir and the Faith's patron King Tommen an abomination and usurper. Without advanced knowledge of FAegon's coming I'd think he's only after Cersei for her shenanigans with Osney Kettleblack, which is still just as bad for Cersei but doesn't affect the Baratheon dynasty. If FAegon gets to town soon enough he should bring plenty of chaos. And there's also the Sand Snakes until then to stir shit up until then. I think I'd like to see the Tyrells survive Cersei but get done in by the Dance of the Dragons 2.0

 

Anyway, I don't see why the show would include the stupid prophecy, make the focus of it all on the YMBQ, and then not have Cersei frame Marg for adultery. I think Nat Dormer mentioned Marg losing control this season in a recent interview which I'm not going to search back through WotW to find.

 

Why would she need to be a maid to marry someone else unless you think she's going to marry yet another prince? She can be a widow and marry a random person with no issues. Like Cersei, without the age issues.

Princes/Kings can marry widows too, can't they? I think the issue with Marg was that her first husband was her second husband's treasonous uncle so it was better to pretend that first marriage never happened and give her the perk of virginity to offset the Tyrells' recent treason, and now her third husband is a child half her age. And Joffrey was only 13 at their betrothal, I think 14 at his death on their wedding day, if he'd been a "man grown" and she was the teen widow of a loyal lord, I don't think Tywin would let lack of virginity stop him from allying with the largest army in Westeros.

[Holmbo]

I love that the unsullied are coming back to their habitat now.

You know, I completely overlooked Husband-In-A-Box in my spitball. It is a pretty tenuous marriage alliance at this point -- a marriage that was never consummated, between the daughter of a man executed for treason (who was also sister to a rebel) and an Imp convicted (via trial by head squish) of killing his king, said Imp being likely to be accused and convicted in absentia of killing the Hand his father, and now off to parts unknown. Interesting...

I love their speculations because they are so intentionally funny while also interesting.

[Maximum Taco]

Princes/Kings can marry widows too, can't they? I think the issue with Marg was that her first husband was her second husband's treasonous uncle so it was better to pretend that first marriage never happened and give her the perk of virginity to offset the Tyrells' recent treason, and now her third husband is a child half her age. And Joffrey was only 13 at their betrothal, I think 14 at his death on their wedding day, if he'd been a "man grown" and she was the teen widow of a loyal lord, I don't think Tywin would let lack of virginity stop him from allying with the largest army in Westeros.

 

Lack of virginity might have just delayed the wedding a bit.

 

In the case of non-virginal widows, the King (or Lord) would likely want to wait a little while (probably half a year-a whole year) to make sure his prospective bride wasn't pregnant with the recently deceased man's child before the marriage.

 

This is similar to what Jaime says about Jeyne Westerling. They are happy to arrange a marriage for her, but the marriage needs to wait so there's no tongues wagging about any resultant child actually being the child of the dead man, in that case the dead man being the King in the North and the resultant child being his heir.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Winnief]

Liked Jodhi May as Maggy the Frog, (even if she was different from the books) and the flashback scene in general, but interesting they didn't include the Valonqar bit...possibly because they want that one to come as a total shock to the Unsullied if/when it does happen?

[benteen]

I kept thinking they'd add the Valonqar scene at the end.  I agree, what's the purpose of having the flashback if you're not going to acknowledge the biggest thing?  Especially when there are a lot more important flashbacks they can do.

 

Another smaller but equally bizarre change.  Varys and Illyrio go from guys who basically rose up together to "introduced by mutual acquaintences" a couple of years ago?  Varys's book backstory with Illryio was far more interesting.

[SeanC]

As far as the non-inclusion of the valonqar prophecy, my guess is that the identity of the valonqar is exactly who you would think it is, and the show wants that to be another shock twist.

 

Whereas Tommen and Myrcella can be killed by any number of people, so the effect is just to keep people guessing.

[Advance35]

I'm really sorry though understanding that production has to be limited.  In the books House Tyrell literally DESCENDS on Kings Landing with Bannerman, Retainers, Singers, Courtiers and Cousins and when Tywin's funeral rolls around you get the sense that someone in the House Tyrell camp yelled "Go" in terms of how they seem to devour the Capital.

 

They had Jaimie articulate that everyone was waiting for Tywin to go before moving on House Lannister but the book just gave it such atmosphere.   Though again I understand why.   Though I wish Olenna could have been there because her bitchery towards Cersei during the funeral and the surrounding times was EPIC.

 

I get the feeling Sansa hates EVERYONE.   And it's an attitude that really works on her in the books she masquerades as very false-cheer while in the show she comes across like an icy disdaining debutante.  I like it.

 

I actually liked both Jon and Dany's stories tonight which was a nice change.