Television Vs. Book: Why'd They Make [Spoiler] Such A [Spoiler]?

[ElizaD]

GRRM's comment:

 

Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?

Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire.

 

I'm curious to see if Show Dany will continue to have greater resistance to fire than Book Dany in the show's version of the pit; they clearly made a decision to emphasize that in the buildup to the dragons hatching.

 

Jon's resurrection could be like Dany's thing with the dragons, a one-time miracle that involves momentary immunity to fire, but I expect the emphasis to be more on Ghost and warging and how they enable Melisandre to restore him without the kind of damage Beric suffered. I'm not quite sure, but wasn't there also something about her magic being stronger on the Wall?

[Maximum Taco]

GRRM's comment:

 

 

 

 

I'm curious to see if Show Dany will continue to have greater resistance to fire than Book Dany in the show's version of the pit; they clearly made a decision to emphasize that in the buildup to the dragons hatching.

 

Jon's resurrection could be like Dany's thing with the dragons, a one-time miracle that involves momentary immunity to fire, but I expect the emphasis to be more on Ghost and warging and how they enable Melisandre to restore him without the kind of damage Beric suffered. I'm not quite sure, but wasn't there also something about her magic being stronger on the Wall?

 

Well Beric came back 6 times. Hopefully Jon will only be coming back once, so he shouldn't have nearly as much damage as Beric. Assuming he comes back using the kiss of life method.

 

I also am expecting some kind of warging to be the solution to Jon's death.

[Hecate7]

If Rickon (or another boy who looks like Rickon, or even another boy with Tully colouring) surfaces with a giant black wolf at his side it's going to make a pretty strong case for him among the Northeners. The smallfolk want a story, and that's a pretty good one.

 

 

Agreed that they'd probably welcome someone else if by doing so they could get out from under the Boltons. But if Rickon shows up with a beard on his face and no wolf in tow, and no Theon Greyjoy or Maester Luwin in the place to vouch for him, things could get ugly quick. Moreover, if Littlefinger can bring a fake Arya and Jon Connington can produce a fake Aegon, then who's to say that the North by the time Rickon returns, might not be simply crawling with fake Brans and Rickons?

[BlackberryJam]

Also in the show she touched the hot dragon eggs with no burns. While I can see it, I don't think the show has related her fire immunity to dragons alone.

[Hecate7]

 

But isn't there at least something about her, and perhaps other but not necessarily all Targaryens -- hence "I am the dragon" -- that prevented her from burning to death when the eggs hatched?

After all, Mirri Maz WhatsHerFace went up like a human torch.

 

GRRM has said that Targaryens feel less pain from heat, and burn slightly less readily than everybody else, but not so much that they can't die from fire. I think Danaerys' fire resistance comes from being the "mother" to the dragons. So only she would be protected by the dragon eggs. She was the one who carried the eggs around, warmed them, and ultimately built the fire. She made the right "sacrifices"--Mirri Muz Dur, Drogo's body, the horse, and in a sense the unborn child, were all in that pyre. Danaerys emerged completely unscathed because the dragons needed her, and their magic protected her.

 

Probably their magic still protects her a little bit, (or did before she chained them up, anyway) because they see her as their mother. Maybe Drogon still does, and maybe he'll exert some magical protection over her.

 

Jon Snow is also a Targaryen, and slightly heat resistant and able to stand a little more heat before he blisters, than the average person, but he's still going to die if you throw him in a fire...UNLESS there is something magic going on that protects him. He might unknowingly be carrying around something magical that will work for him just like the dragon eggs did for Danaerys, something that needs blood and ice and steel to activate it. You never know.

[Maximum Taco]

Agreed that they'd probably welcome someone else if by doing so they could get out from under the Boltons. But if Rickon shows up with a beard on his face and no wolf in tow, and no Theon Greyjoy or Maester Luwin in the place to vouch for him, things could get ugly quick. Moreover, if Littlefinger can bring a fake Arya and Jon Connington can produce a fake Aegon, then who's to say that the North by the time Rickon returns, might not be simply crawling with fake Brans and Rickons?

 

Oh if he has no wolf that's a crapshoot for sure.

 

That's why Manderly is insistant on Davos bringing Rickon back with the wolf.

[John Potts]

Maximum Taco Well Beric came back 6 times. Hopefully Jon will only be coming back once

 

It's possible Jon isn't even dead - or at least, only "Mostly Dead". But I for one would definitely prefer a Rickon-like recovery to an outright resurrection (Yes, Beric came back 7 times, but he's a relatively minor character - and only one of those resurrections was actually "onscreen"/page).

 

And it's certainly a fair point that the North would welcome any "Stark" if it saved them from the loving rule of the Boltons.

[Hecate7]

Oh if he has no wolf that's a crapshoot for sure.

 

That's why Manderly is insistant on Davos bringing Rickon back with the wolf.

 

that might be why the last time we saw Shaggdog, he had just been gored by a unicorn.

[Maximum Taco]

that might be why the last time we saw Shaggdog, he had just been gored by a unicorn.

 

I think you're reading too much into the wound. Ghost would've been in much more distress if Shaggydog had been mortally wounded. 

 

For instance, Grey Wind, Summer and Shaggy howled incessently when Lady died. And Jon (via Ghost) and Bran (via Summer) both get visions when Grey Wind dies.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Hecate7]

I think you're reading too much into the wound. Ghost would've been in much more distress if Shaggydog had been mortally wounded. 

 

For instance, Grey Wind, Summer and Shaggy howled incessently when Lady died. And Jon (via Ghost) and Bran (via Summer) both get visions when Grey Wind dies.

 

Ghost is mute.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Hecate7

[Danny Franks]

Ghost is mute.

 

Being mute doesn't mean he can't show distress. And if Shaggydog was dead, Ghost would have been more visibly unsettled, even if not making noise. By extension, that distress would have been communicated to Jon.

 

If Rickon comes back just to be assumed a pretender to Winterfell, then what's the point? It just extends a storyline that has already lasted too long, when there are supposed to be only two or three books left in the series. Either he comes back and is elevated to Lord of Winterfell, or he doesn't come back.

[Maximum Taco]

Ghost is mute.

 

I don't think Ghost is mute, he just is quiet by nature.

 

There's a chapter in a Clash of Kings where Jon has a wolfdream where he (Ghost) howls cause he misses the others and Bran hears the howl and answers him through the weirwood.

 

Even if that was just a dream (which seems unlikely) and he is mute, that doesn't stop Jon from feeling his emotions when they are dreaming together.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[ElizaD]

 

Dany's smug "badass" speeches have gotten so tiresome. She talks a lot but she never actually gets around to going to Westeros or bothering to learn about it.

 

Looks like Sansa is in the crypts and Vale soldiers are entering Winterfell, she and Littlefinger? are the Boltons' guests. I'm dreading the glee I'm already seeing that she might have been reduced to Show Jeyne, a character who exists so Ramsay can rape her and Theon save her. I prefer the speculation that she'll take the Manderly role as the enemy within, but the next two or so months of hopeful "the traumatizing scene could be her rape/wedding night!" won't be pretty. Since the showrunners ended S4 with Sansa so clearly gaining a level as a player, I seriously hope that they wouldn't go back and make her a victim again, this time in a storyline that's not even her own. Perhaps the traumatizing scene could be her witnessing Theon's treatment and doing nothing about it in order to protect her Alayne identity.

 

Brienne and Pod in snowy weather. Winter arriving south or a sign that they'll go north later in the season?

 

Loras rushes to attack Olyvar while Olenna/Margaery/Tommen/Cersei sit in chairs and the High Septon watches.

Edited March 9, 2015 by ElizaD

[Advance35]

Looks like Sansa is in the crypts and Vale soldiers are entering Winterfell, she and Littlefinger? are the Boltons' guests. I'm dreading the glee I'm already seeing that she might have been reduced to Show Jeyne, a character who exists so Ramsay can rape her and Theon save her. I prefer the speculation that she'll take the Manderly role as the enemy within, but the next two or so months of hopeful "the traumatizing scene could be her rape/wedding night!" won't be pretty. Since the showrunners ended S4 with Sansa so clearly gaining a level as a player, I seriously hope that they wouldn't go back and make her a victim again, this time in a storyline that's not even her own. Perhaps the traumatizing scene could be her witnessing Theon's treatment and doing nothing about it in order to protect her Alayne identity.

 

 

I'm really looking forward to this.  Because after almost 5 years I finally have some new Sansa activity.   I really missed her in ADWD.   I always worried that she would eventually be dragged back to Kings Landing but now I'm thinking that she really will continue to head North even in the books.   They may not have casted Harry the Heir but they are still clearly going forward with LF's plans to manipulate and gain control of The Vale, The North and probably the Riverlands by the end of S5.

 

It'll be interesting to see Sansa opposite Theon as we never really got an insight on their dynamic in the book with the exception that he thought she was "comely" and dreamed of marrying her someday so he could be a real Stark.

 

I assume Sansa's training and apptitude for intrigue will be tested with her doing her best to stay one step ahead of Ramsay and Myranda.   And likely Roose Bolton for that matter.   She'll be in DEEP enemy territory with Boltons, Freys and their followers but being surrounded by enemies who completely shrug off the veneer of civility, the way they do in the North (a counter to the facades found in Kings Landing) should be interesting.

 

And she looked great in that shot of her in the Crypts.

[jjjmoss]

The only shots I found exciting were the fleeting glimpses of Queen Sansa.

 

The worst was of course Clarke's awful voiceover.

[TwistedandBored]

Great trailer.
I loved seeing more on what's happening over at Meerreen. Dany and Tyrion shots with the what I believe is Drogon was awesome to see. Can't wait.

[Avaleigh]

I didn't realize the trailer had been posted about here.

 

I'm most curious about that shot of Selyse. Why does she look so disturbed? What is she witnessing?

 

I can't even begin to speculate on what's going on with Sansa, I just know that I'm nervous.

 

The least intriguing shots were of Arya and her coin. It feels like her character is in the exact same place even though I know better. 

 

I actually think the stuff with Dany looks exciting I'm just not really looking forward to the Daario scenes. 

[AshleyN]

I liked that trailer better than the first one. It would have been nice to get more than a couple fleeting glimpses of Arya and Sansa though - couldn't they have sacrificed a little Dany/Mereen stuff (which seemed to take up half the trailer) for them?

 

Speaking of Dany, it would appear that Emilia Clarke still hasn't realized that whoever told her that dead-eyed stare or hers was an effective acting choice was playing a mean joke on her.

 

I can't wait to see the Cersei attempt to deal with the High Sparrow, who looks great from the bits that we see there. If done right, this season should really belong to Lena Headey.

 

The Northern stuff looks good too - I'm one of those who thinks Stannis has kind of gotten the shaft on the show, but hopefully this trailer is an indication that things will improve on that front. And confident, assertive Jon Snow developing as a leader is so much better than whiny, emo Jon Snow.

[Maximum Taco]

Dany's smug "badass" speeches have gotten so tiresome. She talks a lot but she never actually gets around to going to Westeros or bothering to learn about it.

 

I know. I actually didn't think it was possible for me to hate Show Dany more than I hate Book Dany, but it's getting pretty close.

 

This season could catch Show Dany up.

[Holmbo]

I liked this trailer much better than the first one.

I agree about Danys speech but I liked the content of it combined with the sparrows. It made me feel this season will show a bit more of the small folk. I enjoyed hearing winter is coming. Made me nostalgic for the first season :) the dragon shots looked great but I wish they wouldn't have shown it in a trailer. Also tyrions beard still looks ridiculous. That's about all the coherent thoughts I have right now about it. I'll have to watch it again tomorrow because it's getting late.

[Danny Franks]

If they send Sansa to Ramsay, they'd better find a way of her not being repeatedly raped by him, anyone else he wants to set on her, and his dogs. Because otherwise, I'm done. It wouldn't be that hard to just have Bolton force him to be nice until the wedding, and have Theon break her out before anything terrible happens. They cannot spend this time building her up just to have Ramsay break her like a toy he doesn't really care about. But what am I saying? These writers will never go for the restrained approach when mindless violence is an option.

 

Dany has been boring and repetitive since she started shrieking for her dragons in season 2. The only good thing about this is, it seems like they're cutting a whole load of garbage from her Meereen storyline.

 

I guess I'm only really interested in seeing the Wall and Dorne, in this season. That's kind of a shame.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Avaleigh]

I'm not worried that Sansa will be raped by Ramsay. I don't think it's going to happen. What I am worried about is her character being in another holding situation where we're waiting for something dreadful to happen and then she escapes in the nick of time. Been there done that. 

 

I want to see Sansa have opinions, make plans and tough decisions--I want some action. If she just has another wedding while she waits again to be rescued I'll be more than disappointed.

[benteen]

I'm not worried that Sansa will be raped by Ramsay. I don't think it's going to happen. What I am worried about is her character being in another holding situation where we're waiting for something dreadful to happen and then she escapes in the nick of time. Been there done that. 

 

I want to see Sansa have opinions, make plans and tough decisions--I want some action. If she just has another wedding while she waits again to be rescued I'll be more than disappointed.

 

Your use of holding situation is a good one.  It makes sense for the show to merge Sansa's storyline with the bigger one in the North.  One thing D and D have done very well is cut through the crap and put characters/storyline closer together.  While the results are very mixed when D and D "go into business for themselves" with original content, it does feel like on the show the characters and storylines are getting closer together.  Unlike in the books where it seems like GRRM is making the characters more further away than ever from other characters with his endless world-building and constantly growing subplots.

 

Anyway, holding situation...if Sansa is being incorporated into the Bolton North storyline, then it's safe to say we really aren't going to see much in the way of post-ADWD's material for Sansa.  If that's the case, it seems they've given GRRM one more year to get Winds of Winter out before they really go into unchartered territory.

 

I really hope Sansa's storyline isn't to marry Ramsay.  While I wouldn't put it past Littlefinger to eventually rid himself of her, even I don't think he would do that.  Plus it would make Sansa a powerless victim again and I don't think that's what they were hinting at last season.  Perhaps they can still do the Fake Arya thing with Sansa realizing that "Arya" is her old friend.  We'll have to see.  D and D do have a serious rape fetish though on the show so I think the concern that they'd go in that direction is valid.

 

Anyway, I thought it was a good trailer.  It's getting harder to recognize what's onscreen because of the changes but that's a good thing.  As I said, I'm glad to see these storylines and characters getting much closer together than they are in the books.  Agreed about Dany's embarrassing speeches.  Either go to Westeros or stop teasing it.  Though I think she'll finally be there next season.

[AshleyN]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking here, but I really can't see Sansa taking the place of Jeyne. They made a big deal in her final appearances last season to show her on the path to empowerment and starting to take control over her circumstances, and forcing her back into the role of helpless victim would completely undo that. Also, I don't think Littlefinger would go there, if for no other reason than because I think he would recognize that Ramsay's level of crazy makes him too unpredictable to make it worth playing his most valuable card.

 

Based on the Littlefinger/Sansa bit in the previous trailer, where he talks about getting vengeance on those who hurt the ones we love, it seems much more likely to me that she's there to cause problems for the Boltons*. But I can't help but think that bringing her there as Alayne is an uncharacteristically big risk for Littlefinger, given there are a lot of people there who have met her before and could recognize her. Even if they were only visitors to Winterfell I would think the eldest daughter of Eddard Stark would be someone they might remember.

 

*Of course, causing problems for the Boltons would help Stannis, who Littlefinger absolutely does not want in a position of power. But since Catelyn has always been his weak spot, he might put revenge against the people who killed her first and just assume that he could deal with Stannis later.

Edited March 10, 2015 by AshleyN

[SeanC]

Anyway, holding situation...if Sansa is being incorporated into the Bolton North storyline, then it's safe to say we really aren't going to see much in the way of post-ADWD's material for Sansa.  If that's the case, it seems they've given GRRM one more year to get Winds of Winter out before they really go into unchartered territory.

Sending Sansa to Winterfell when everything we know indicates her story is going to continue to be in the Vale suggests that they're largely discarding her TWOW material (at least, the things GRRM has set up).  It's hard to see how she ends up in anything like the position GRRM left her in at the end of AFFC with a big departure like this.

[benteen]

Yeah, I would think someone like Roose would recognize Sansa.

[Dev F]

I really hope Sansa's storyline isn't to marry Ramsay.  While I wouldn't put it past Littlefinger to eventually rid himself of her, even I don't think he would do that.  Plus it would make Sansa a powerless victim again and I don't think that's what they were hinting at last season.  Perhaps they can still do the Fake Arya thing with Sansa realizing that "Arya" is her old friend.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Sansa plays a more active role than that. If, as earlier spoilers suggest, she meets Brienne and Pod, presumably they would tell her that Arya is still alive. So if she hears that Ramsay Bolton is going to marry Arya Stark, she may think that her actual sister is prisoner of the Boltons and convince Littlefinger that they need to mount a rescue.

[Advance35]

I don't think going to Winterfell is going to be Sansa's idea.   I think that is going to be ALL Littlefinger.   As to what he's up to.   He's got control of the Vale as of now, that's one of the Seven Kingdoms, that's quite the accomplishment, I suppose he now wants to build relations with what remains of the North.   The Lannisters are about to crash and burn and possibly take House Tyrell with them, so he's looking for everything that can be consolidated.

 

The Boltons are one option.  I could see LF bringing Sansa to Winterfell with orders to ingratiate herself to Ramsay, Ramsay being a twisted version of Harry the Heir.  He's not counting on Ramsay being a backwater Joffrey or Reek/Theon.

 

I'm actually very much looking forward to Sansa's storyline, it looks like it'll be interesting and exciting.

[Hecate7]

I don't think Ghost is mute, he just is quiet by nature.

 

There's a chapter in a Clash of Kings where Jon has a wolfdream where he (Ghost) howls cause he misses the others and Bran hears the howl and answers him through the weirwood.

 

Even if that was just a dream (which seems unlikely) and he is mute, that doesn't stop Jon from feeling his emotions when they are dreaming together.

 

It's just a dream. From the wiki:

 

"In the books, it is emphasized that Ghost is unnaturally silent: Jon tells Tyrion that he named him "Ghost" partially because of his albino coloring, but also because of how little noise he makes. In the books, Ghost is completely mute, utterly silent making no sound of any kind. This wasn't found to translate well to the screen, so Ghost makes noises like growling at Rast in his bunk or whining at Gilly holding rabbits."

[Hecate7]

Maybe it's just wishful thinking here, but I really can't see Sansa taking the place of Jeyne. They made a big deal in her final appearances last season to show her on the path to empowerment and starting to take control over her circumstances, and forcing her back into the role of helpless victim would completely undo that. Also, I don't think Littlefinger would go there, if for no other reason than because I think he would recognize that Ramsay's level of crazy makes him too unpredictable to make it worth playing his most valuable card.

 

Based on the Littlefinger/Sansa bit in the previous trailer, where he talks about getting vengeance on those who hurt the ones we love, it seems much more likely to me that she's there to cause problems for the Boltons*. But I can't help but think that bringing her there as Alayne is an uncharacteristically big risk for Littlefinger, given there are a lot of people there who have met her before and could recognize her. Even if they were only visitors to Winterfell I would think the eldest daughter of Eddard Stark would be someone they might remember.

 

They might, but you know she looks nothing like the girl who rode off to King's Landing a couple of years ago. Her face is different. She's taller. Her figure is way more developed. She walks differently. She talks differently. And she has black hair. I honestly don't think they're going to recognize her. People don't pay that much attention to little girls anyway in this culture. She was a modest little thing with red hair, that the Bannermen maybe saw a couple of times when they came up for a holiday or some kind of occasion. Or not--she probably had an early bedtime. If you weren't at the feast with Robert Baratheon you probably never met her, and only know that she had red hair.

[Maximum Taco]

It's just a dream. From the wiki:

 

"In the books, it is emphasized that Ghost is unnaturally silent: Jon tells Tyrion that he named him "Ghost" partially because of his albino coloring, but also because of how little noise he makes. In the books, Ghost is completely mute, utterly silent making no sound of any kind. This wasn't found to translate well to the screen, so Ghost makes noises like growling at Rast in his bunk or whining at Gilly holding rabbits."

 

It's a wiki. Anyone can edit a wiki.

 

In the books Jon even wonders if Ghost will howl for him if he should die. So even Jon isn't sure if he's completely mute, otherwise why would he wonder?

Edited March 10, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[LanceM]

Awesome trailer. Loved Dany's speech and everything about the Meeren storyline including the meet up with Tyrion looks like it is going to be great. Drogon is freakin huge!  Sansa is not going to be in Winterfell.... Alayne is so I have no worries that she is going to be taking on the FArya role ( I think that is going to be the young actress they cast as the winterfell worker who has a slight resemblence to Maisie). If anything Sansa is going to be taken on more of a Manderly type role.

[Winnief]

Sansa is going to Winterfell but I think it will be as Alayne rather than fArya.

 

Whoever Ramsay was kissing had darker hair than Miranda but it wasn't Santa either...Jeyne perhaps?

[Hecate7]

Being mute doesn't mean he can't show distress. And if Shaggydog was dead, Ghost would have been more visibly unsettled, even if not making noise. By extension, that distress would have been communicated to Jon.

How would Ghost show distress? We actually haven't seen this. The dream where Ghost howled was a dream, and probably was the sleeping Jon Snow hearing Summer's howl. Yes, Ghost would have been upset over Greywind, but we didn't actually see this.

 

By the time of the Shaggydog dream, Ghost has bigger things to worry about--Jon Snow, for instance.

 

Shaggydog may still be alive, but it's not like GRRM to show us a gored wolf for no reason. If nothing else, it's forshadowing. I'm not even sure Ghost is still alive as of the end of the last book, since he was locked in Jon's room while people stabbed Jon Snow.

[Hecate7]

From the actual book, Jon Snow: "He's not like the others. He never makes a sound. That's why I named him Ghost. That, and because he's white. The others are all dark, grey or black."

 

He does wonder if Ghost will howl for him, but I think this is either one of those things like when GRRM forgets what color eyes his characters have, or it's Jon Snow wondering how a mute wolf is going to how.

 

From GRRM: "Even in Winterfell, as a kid before the wolves, Jon was the bastard. He was the odd one out. The rest of them are all brothers and sisters. He's only a half-brother, so he's not as closely tied to them ... So he's of them, he's part of the family, he's part of the siblings, but he's a little bit apart too. Ghost is very similar to that. He's the albino, he's the one who makes no noise, so he's related to the other direwolves but one apart as well."

It's a wiki. Anyone can edit a wiki.

 

In the books Jon even wonders if Ghost will howl for him if he should die. So even Jon isn't sure if he's completely mute, otherwise why would he wonder?

Because he knows nothing. :)

Edited March 10, 2015 by Hecate7

[BlackberryJam]

I went over that trailer pretty hard with the Sansa shots. Her face, neck and chest are unblemished in every single shot. If she's taking the fArya role, I don't see why they wouldn't show her with a bruise or two. Also, she's wearing the dress of empowerment and Malificientery, not the gown of about-to-be-beaten.

[AshleyN]

They might, but you know she looks nothing like the girl who rode off to King's Landing a couple of years ago. Her face is different. She's taller. Her figure is way more developed. She walks differently. She talks differently. And she has black hair. I honestly don't think they're going to recognize her. People don't pay that much attention to little girls anyway in this culture. She was a modest little thing with red hair, that the Bannermen maybe saw a couple of times when they came up for a holiday or some kind of occasion. Or not--she probably had an early bedtime. If you weren't at the feast with Robert Baratheon you probably never met her, and only know that she had red hair.

Not most little girls, but the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell, who is considered to be particularly beautiful, and is going to be the most eligible bachelorette in the North? Like I said, I think there would be some notice taken of her. I don't necessarily think that she would definitely be identified, just that the chances of someone noticing the resemblance increase dramatically when you put her in the midst of her father's bannermen, making it a risky move for Littlefinger.

 

But I suppose they may just handwave it away for the reasons you mentioned, with the assumption that that it won't be an issue for anyone except Theon.

 

And on that note, I wonder if they might have Sansa play the Jeyne Poole role in terms of her role in Theon's redemption, without the marriage to Ramsay? Starting with him keeping her true identity a secret, since he's the one character who pretty much has to recognize her. And maybe a some sort of scenario where Sansa is operating behind that scenes and gets caught, and Theon helps her escape and get to safety. They could even interact beforehand (in the crypts maybe?) where she could play a role in helping him regain his identity and spurring him into action. On the one hand we'd avoid the horrifying Ramsay/Fake Arya stuff, and there'd be a sort of poetic factor in having Theon's big moment come by rescuing a Stark child, considering the role he played in their downfall. On the other hand, there was actually something kind of nice about the fact that he saved Jeyne knowing she wasn't a Stark, and there was nothing really in it for him.

Edited March 10, 2015 by AshleyN

[Hecate7]

Not most little girls, but the daughter of the Lord of Winterfell, who is considered to be particularly beautiful, and is going to be the most eligible bachelorette in the North? Like I said, I think there would be some notice taken of her. I don't necessarily think that she would definitely be identified, just that the chances of someone noticing the resemblance increase dramatically when you put her in the midst of her father's bannermen, making it a risky move for Littlefinger.

 

But I suppose they may just handwave it away for the reasons you mentioned, with the assumption that that it won't be an issue for anyone except Theon.

 

And on that note, I wonder if they might have Sansa play the Jeyne Poole role in terms of her role in Theon's redemption, without the marriage to Ramsay? Starting with him keeping her true identity a secret, since he's the one character who pretty much has to recognize her. And maybe a some sort of scenario where Sansa is operating behind that scenes and gets caught, and Theon helps her escape and get to safety. They could even interact beforehand (in the crypts maybe?) where she could play a role in helping him regain his identity and spurring him into action. On the one hand we'd avoid the horrifying Ramsay/Fake Arya stuff, and there'd be a sort of poetic factor in having Theon's big moment come by rescuing a Stark child, considering the role he played in their downfall. On the other hand, there was actually something kind of nice about the fact that he saved Jeyne knowing she wasn't a Stark, and there was nothing really in it for him.

 

There is no reason for the Jeyne Poole role, without the wedding. Ramsey needs to marry a Stark to secure Winterfell. For him to help her escape, she has to have something to escape FROM. She has to be in actual danger. Without a marriage to Ramsey, she can just walk right back out the door. There has to be a reason she needs Theon, and not Littlefinger or anyone else to save her. Dropping her there is a horrible thing for Littlefinger to do, but I've always thought he was going to doublecross her sooner or later.

 

I get what you're saying, but remember there are no photographers, and the bannermen could only have seen her from where they were sitting, and they only got to see her when they are visiting Winterfell. It's not like they went to school with her or saw her every day. Most of the people who would have gotten close enough to see the color of her eyes are either dead, or enemies.

[AshleyN]

For him to help her escape, she has to have something to escape FROM. She has to be in actual danger. Without a marriage to Ramsey, she can just walk right back out the door.

Unless she (a) has her true identity exposed or (b) is revealed to be working to undermine the Bolton cause while at Winterfell. Either of these scenarios would have her in a world of trouble.

 

Obviously this might not even be close to what happens, I'm just spitballing possibilities.

 

I would like to see an honest conversation between her and Theon though. I'm really curious as to how she would react to this broken down version of Theon, knowing what he (supposedly) did to her brothers and the role he played in the fall of her house. Has there been a Lady Dustin character cast? Maybe Sansa could have a heart-to-heart with him in the crypts instead?

Edited March 10, 2015 by AshleyN

[BlackberryJam]

Unless she (a) has her true identity exposed or (b) is revealed to be working to undermine the Bolton cause while at Winterfell. Either of these scenarios would have her in a world of trouble.

 

Obviously this might not even be close to what happens, I'm just spitballing possibilities.

 

I would like to see an honest conversation between her and Theon though. I'm really curious as to how she would react to this broken down version of Theon, knowing what he (supposedly) did to her brothers and the role he played in the fall of her house. Has there been a Lady Dustin character cast? Maybe Sansa could have a heart-to-heart with him in the crypts instead?

 

I am totally on board with that theory. I don't think Littlefinger is going to dump Sansa anywhere, I think he's going to stay with her. All Theon needs to see is LF creeping on Sansa in order to want to help her escape, and he'll know she's there in disguise. She wouldn't be hiding her identity if she weren't in danger. Hells, Theon will know she's in danger if LF just allows her to breathe in the same room as Ramsay. The wedding and the fake Arya bit are not needed to have Sansa be part of Theon's redemption and identity arc.

[SeanC]

I am totally on board with that theory. I don't think Littlefinger is going to dump Sansa anywhere, I think he's going to stay with her. All Theon needs to see is LF creeping on Sansa in order to want to help her escape, and he'll know she's there in disguise. She wouldn't be hiding her identity if she weren't in danger. Hells, Theon will know she's in danger if LF just allows her to breathe in the same room as Ramsay. The wedding and the fake Arya bit are not needed to have Sansa be part of Theon's redemption and identity arc.

Given the changes being made, I do wonder whether we'll see the escape at all, or if the endgame will just play out within the castle.

[Dev F]

I don't think going to Winterfell is going to be Sansa's idea.   I think that is going to be ALL Littlefinger.

 

But that would mean it's yet another story where Sansa is thrown into a dangerous situation because Littlefinger's ambition has effed her over, and the writers seemed to have finally made an effort to move past that paradigm and give Sansa some agency at the end of last season. I'd be disappointed if Sansa's efforts to meet Littlefinger as an equal result in exactly the same sort of disempowerment as when she was acting like a timid little girl.

[Advance35]

This also interest me because it seems like Sansa will be in the North when the White Walker catastrophe is going to reach it's climax.  THAT is not something she has been molded to handle, nor has Littlefinger for that matter.   I'm assuming since they know where she will end up they are building towards that in ways time and budget will allow, so it makes me wonder exactly where Sansa will go moving forward and what possible role she could play in the Otherpocalypse.  

 

I didn't think she would be in Kings Landing, I just thought it would be the Vale, with AMBPLE food supplies and an untouched army, in a land that's renowned for being able to repell invaders.   On the show it looks like that won't be the case.

 

I also like the trailer because it serves as a reminder that Danerys isn't coming to Westeros and planning to run into the open arms of any of the established characters.  She's coming to conquer and that means grounding beneath her heel Houses Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell, Stark and anyone else, be they hero or villain.   I think the audience forgets that.  I see "I can't wait til Dany teams up with......"  when in actuality Dany is likely to be an enemy to everyone.   It makes me wonder a little more about ST's comment that the greatest threat to Sansa in the future is likely Danerys Targaryen.

 

But that would mean it's yet another story where Sansa is thrown into a dangerous situation because Littlefinger's ambition has effed her over, and the writers seemed to have finally made an effort to move past that paradigm and give Sansa some agency at the end of last season. I'd be disappointed if Sansa's efforts to meet Littlefinger as an equal result in exactly the same sort of disempowerment as when she was acting like a timid little girl.

 

I don't feel like Sansa should be a match  in terms of LF.   She shouldn't be able to manipulate him.   He swims with Sharks she never has.   Just because she's not cooking up the direction she and LF go doesn't mean she doesn't have agency.  If she manages to turn parts of the situatioin to her advantage she will have improved notabley.    But in my view she is not his equal (and at this point she shouldn't be IMO).   I thought last season displayed that she doesn't want to be led blindly, I think LF will tell her they are going to Winterfell and he'll tell her WHY.  The advantage to working with House Bolton but I don't think he's going to be saying "Please".   I think he's going to want her to win over Ramsay Bolton somehow.

 

I also think Roose and LF will be discussing way's to potentially deal with Stannis.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Advance35

[Danny Franks]

If they can avoid the Ramsay rape stuff completely, then I'd love to see Sansa in the North because it would amplify the chances of her and Jon having some scenes together. Which I've wanted in the books ever since Sansa thought about "how sweet it would be to see him again" in AFFC.

 

They're the only family they each have left, as far as they know (although I seem to recall Sam telling Jon about Bran in the show), and I think a reunion would have a really powerful bitter-sweetness that both Kit Harington and Sophie Turner would sell like champs.

 

It might also give me the scene I'd like of Littlefinger being slapped down permanently by the remaining Starks.

[Skeeter22]

I don't mind Sansa going to Winterfell, but I hope she isn't there just to be a prop for Theon' s redemption story. The biggest criticisms of Sansa's character have been that she is just a passive damsel in distress. They already stripped her of her role in her own escape, they don't need to victimize her any more just to benefit another character's arc.

If they are merging her future storylines with Manderley' s enemy within plot, I don't really have a problem with that. If she's going to be victimized by Ramsey just so Theon can be a hero, well then I guess that's par for the course.

[Winnief]

And on that note, I wonder if they might have Sansa play the Jeyne Poole role in terms of her role in Theon's redemption, without the marriage to Ramsay? Starting with him keeping her true identity a secret, since he's the one character who pretty much has to recognize her. And maybe a some sort of scenario where Sansa is operating behind that scenes and gets caught, and Theon helps her escape and get to safety. They could even interact beforehand (in the crypts maybe?) where she could play a role in helping him regain his identity and spurring him into action. On the one hand we'd avoid the horrifying Ramsay/Fake Arya stuff, and there'd be a sort of poetic factor in having Theon's big moment come by rescuing a Stark child, considering the role he played in their downfall. On the other hand, there was actually something kind of nice about the fact that he saved Jeyne knowing she wasn't a Stark, and there was nothing really in it for him.

 

 

I really, REALLY like this scenario.  I could also see in that storyline Sansa asserting some genuine agency because her efforts to undermine the Bolton's from within might bear fruit-but also necessitate a quick exit at some point-thus serving both Sansa's story arc of making her more a player AND Theon's redemption arc as well.

 

And of course if she *is* in the Winterfell crypts she might stumble onto a proof of a certain Big Secret that's been down there since Ned came from RR...

 

This also interest me because it seems like Sansa will be in the North when the White Walker catastrophe is going to reach it's climax.  THAT is not something she has been molded to handle, nor has Littlefinger for that matter.   I'm assuming since they know where she will end up they are building towards that in ways time and budget will allow, so it makes me wonder exactly where Sansa will go moving forward and what possible role she could play in the Otherpocalypse. 

 

I didn't think she would be in Kings Landing, I just thought it would be the Vale, with AMBPLE food supplies and an untouched army, in a land that's renowned for being able to repell invaders.   On the show it looks like that won't be the case.

 

 

Well it might make perfect sense if Sansa's supposed to help out Jon in some way.  The Big Reveal is coming-if not this season then sometime early in Season Six.  And when it does, my guess is it will suddenly be very, VERY important that Jon has *someone* close to him who can give him the scoop on Southern politics and the personalities/motivations of the different players in KL.  Also she could be key to getting Jon support from River Lords and Vale Lords in the fight ahead.

[Holmbo]

What kinda proof could be down in the winterfell crypt?

[Winnief]

Rhaegar's harp, the old Crown of the Kings of Winterfell, the sword Dark Sister, and/or possibly a marriage license of some sort.  (Since I think Rhaegar took Lyanna as his second wife in polygamous Targaryen fashion.)

[Holmbo]

I doubt it

[Constantinople]

Graffiti?

 

R+L 4EVR

 

R + L

Sittin' in a tree

K-I-S-S

I-N-G