S11.E08: Just My Imagination

[AwesomO4000]

So, is it just a coinkydink all these imaginary friends are helping kids in the same town?

 

My interpretation was that that was Scully's regional "group." When Weems learned about the mermaid and Sparkle being killed, he said something llike "That's almost our whole posse!" So I'm guessing that Scully was management for a certain geographical area, and that there would be other Zanna for other areas.

 

Save me a seat on the don't-buy-John-and-Dean-going-off-to-hunt-and-leaving-Sam-alone wagon. And since when didn't Sam go to school?

 

It was summer? We did see Sam later on in his childhood going to school on his own when Dean and John were away.

 

It bothered me the way YoungSam kicked Sully to the curb.  The implication had been that he relied on Sullly for companionship and some ego boosting, and there certainly seemed to be a friendship between them.  Even with him knowing Sully wasn't real, he couldn't have just said thanks for everything, so long?  (I mean if he's going to talk to an imaginary person at all, why be hateful?)  I didn't like YoungSam much at that moment, and I don't know if it was that characterization or the actor that was playing YoungSam, but I didn't feel there was any similarity between him and previous versions.

 

Well, he was a kid, and kids do that kind of thing sometimes. I also think that Sam was sort of having a moment of false bravado there, too, and that was part of why he was short with Sully... Now that he was getting what he supposedly always wanted, he almost didn't sound entirely sure, saying something like "Why wouldn't I want to be hunting? I'm a Winchester, aren't I?" And since Sully was saying he didn't have to go, and Sam was trying not to waver on the going hunting thing and trying to be brave and live up to John's saying that he was ready, I think that's why he was short with Sully - almost like "I wish I never had any doubts about this to begin with," because now his doubts were making him second guess what he always thought he wanted. Little Sam looking back after Sully had disappeared - almost as if he might have second thoughts - gave me that impression.

 

That said, I was glad that Sam appologized to Sully and let him know that he had appreciated him afterall.

 

It's too bad Colin Ford was too old now though, because I bet he would've rocked those Sam/Sully flashback scenes.

 

I will say that even as a bi-brother girl, the "no-one else has the balls" thing, and the heavy implication that only Sam can do it bugged me. Any Dean!girl watching this episode is going to come away from it bitter and angry.

 

I didn't think it was so bad, because Sully was talking in generalities about heros, and after Sam had told Sully that's what he was (a hero), because they both had messed up but had to overcome their fears. I think Sam was acknowledging Sully giving Reese the chance to kill him if it would make her feel better. Of course Sully was couching it as advice to Sam, but that to me didn't mean that the message was that Sam was the only one who could do it or was the only one brave enough, but that if Sam did want to redeem himself, he was going to have to grow a pair to do it... and I think that was what Sam's "This lump in my throat is no excuse" to Dean was about. That if he wanted to be a hero, too, he needed to take Sully's advice/message to heart and stop letting his fear be an excuse to drag his feet on what he thinks needs to be done. That was my impression anyway.

Edited December 4, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[mertensia]

Menomonie. Wonder if anyone on the staff pronounced it correctly.

Cute episode though I do wonder why Sam's visions of the Cage had led him to the "gotta jump back in there" conclusion.

Poor Dean; zanna just aren't his kind of monster.

Those sweaters were just hysterically awful on them.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Just chiming into add that I loved when Dean asked Sam if he was having a stroke. I LOL'd IRL.

[SueB]

Menomonie. Wonder if anyone on the staff pronounced it correctly.

Cute episode though I do wonder why Sam's visions of the Cage had led him to the "gotta jump back in there" conclusion.

Poor Dean; zanna just aren't his kind of monster.

Those sweaters were just hysterically awful on them.

So now I have to ask .... How do you pronounce Menominee? Jenny Klein said she picked it because it was close to manamana   

Edited December 4, 2015 by SueB

[millennium]

I liked this episode. It was morbid and hysterical at the same time.

Sparkles was all sorts of fantastic! I wish my imagination would have been that creative.

Loved the boys in their sweaters! So, so cute.

I loved Sully. So caring and supportive.

Lots of one-liners. I have to go back and see this again to get them all.

I thought the air guitar might have been Eddie Van Halen.

 

I think it was a combination cover and variation of Van Halen's "Eruption," maybe altered just enough to avoid paying licensing fees.   Vah Halen-esque, so to speak.

 

I really enjoyed this episode.   I think it ably demonstrates how superfluous to this show Crowley, Castiel and the whole tired Angel/Heaven/Hell plot really are.    The writing was tight, the jokes were (as someone said upthread) morbid and funny, and the story created some new and believable background for Sam and Dean. 

[DittyDotDot]

It was summer? We did see Sam later on in his childhood going to school on his own when Dean and John were away.

 

I was referring to Sully asking Sam if he might want something different...maybe he'd like to go to school? That's the first I've ever heard that Sam, or Dean for that matter, didn't go to school. 

 

Other than it being so laden with long-winded and pointless dialogue, my biggest issue with this episode is, to make it work, they altered Sam and Dean's young lives somewhat. Now, it wasn't enough to for me to say it was full-on retcon--it's been long-established Sam was a lonely kid, not because he was literally left alone, though--and sometimes these shiftings can work and actually improve the story. I just didn't think it did here. It felt rather lazy, to me. I mean, that motel wasn't even all that craptastic or skeevy. ;)

[bethy]

Cute episode though I do wonder why Sam's visions of the Cage had led him to the "gotta jump back in there" conclusion.

I've wondered how he landed on that, too. Has that been explained anywhere? Or is that a feeling he's getting from the visions?

Those sweaters were just hysterically awful on them.

I feel like Jensen has worn a sweater very similar to that one for a photo shoot at some point in the past?

[mertensia]

Meh-NOM-ih-nee. The meh is a very short sound. The NOM is really a Nam as in Vietnam.

[Mulva]

I really enjoyed this episode. I think it ably demonstrates how superfluous to this show Crowley, Castiel and the whole tired Angel/Heaven/Hell plot really are. The writing was tight, the jokes were (as someone said upthread) morbid and funny, and the story created some new and believable background for Sam and Dean.

That's exactly how I feel. I've always felt that the show was better before all the Heaven/Hell/Angel politics came on the scene. It was good to see the show focused on the brothers. It's about time the writers remembered that Sam is a main character.

[SueB]

Meh-NOM-ih-nee. The meh is a very short sound. The NOM is really a Nam as in Vietnam.

Thanks!  Perfect.

 

Of course, I'm going to sing like Animal the whole day.

Edited December 4, 2015 by SueB

[bethy]

I forgot to say that I liked seeing that Dean is a robe and slippers guy in the bunker. There's no way that John was walking around the places they lived growing up wearing a robe or slippers, and we've never seen Dean do that when they're on the road (or when he was with Lisa). I liked the continued indication that the bunker is "home" for Dean. And that in his mind, evidently, "home" means robes and slippers. Which, to me, is kind of an old-fashioned, idealized view of home. I find that kind of sweet. And maybe a little sad, too. 

[SueB]

Woah... too early in the morning for Dean feels bethy!  I need some coffee.....(excellent comment BTW).

[bethy]

Sorry about that, SueB. But really. Is it ever too early in the morning for Dean feels? :) *she says, drinking her second cup of coffee*

[catrox14]

I forgot to say that I liked seeing that Dean is a robe and slippers guy in the bunker. There's no way that John was walking around the places they lived growing up wearing a robe or slippers, and we've never seen Dean do that when they're on the road (or when he was with Lisa). I liked the continued indication that the bunker is "home" for Dean. And that in his mind, evidently, "home" means robes and slippers. Which, to me, is kind of an old-fashioned, idealized view of home. I find that kind of sweet. And maybe a little sad, too.

Aside from the practicality of sleeping in their clothes in case they had to flee their digs quickly, I think there was probably some kind of trauma trigger with the robe wearing for John since that is what he was wearing the night Mary was burned alive in front of his eyes. Maybe for WeeDean, too.

But mostly I've taken Dean wearing a dead guy's robe for the joke of Dean wearing a dead guy's robe and as a juxtaposition to Dean making fun of the stodgy Mol way of life but enjoying their stuff anyway like the water pressure in the showers and the hard good quality liquor; Dean's way of sticking it to the MoL for being bigoted and classist towards the "ape hunters".

[bethy]

I'd forgotten about John wearing a robe in the Pilot. Interesting. I think that may make it even sweeter and sadder to me - he's wearing a robe like his dad in the first home he's had since the fire that stole his first one. :)

 

I know that Dean was - justifiably - angry about the Men of Letters' attitude toward hunters, but for me, his enjoyment of the amenities in the Lair never came across as a stick-it-to-the-Man(of Letters) kind of thing. Just him enjoying what he was getting in the moment. 

 

Plus, looking around for a clip of Dean's initial appearance in the robe and I found this - https://www.tumblr.com/search/the%20dead%20guy%20robe- HA! Also, in addition to being known as the "dead guy robe," it is evidently known as the "nesting robe." People slay me. I clearly fall in the "nesting robe" camp.

[catrox14]

 

I know that Dean was - justifiably - angry about the Men of Letters' attitude toward hunters, but for me, his enjoyment of the amenities in the Lair never came across as a stick-it-to-the-Man(of Letters) kind of thing. Just him enjoying what he was getting in the moment.

 

Oh I wasn't implying Dean doesn't enjoy the comforts of the Lair but the first time he donned the robe is when Sam asked him if he was going to keep wearing the dead guy's robe. Dean was a big indignant but didn't care about Sam's attempts to mock him. IMO it was a dual  pleasure for Dean, 'fuck the MoL for being asshats and I love this robe'  

[Omegamom]

About "home": in this episode, Sam feels safe enough in the bunker to allow himself to be sleepy when waking up, and not noticing things. It's not the standard wake-up-alert-and-ready-to-kill that we see so often with the boys. I mean, he's so laid back that he wanders around the kitchen for a full minute or two before seeing the party spread. And I think that hits me right in the feelz.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Supernatural's Sam Learns A Tough Lesson About Having An Imaginary Friend
What seems like an excuse for Dean to snark it up is actually sweet and sorta sad.

[DittyDotDot]

Uh...so I just saw this question on Tumblr and it didn't even occur to me.

 

How the hell did Sully get into the bunker?? Like did he just materialize because he isn't an angel or demon? Where did he know to find Sam?  Isn't the bunker warded against monsters? 

 

In general, the bunker seems to only be warded when the plot necessitates it. There's really been little rhyme or reason to it, IMO.

[rue721]

I enjoyed this one. The zanna were interesting and fun folklore, and Sully was cool. The writing was also pretty tight imo. The best part of the episode, imo, was that the side characters were all pretty likeable and entertaining. Even the mom with her face smeared with Sparkle blood. Hell, even Sparkle himself!

 

There were also no melodramatic pity parties or ridiculous fights -- so I was OK with the relative schlockyness of the storyline! It felt a little bit "after school special" and childish to me, but not so much so that it was a problem.

 

I actually ended up liking how genuinely sweet all the zanna were. It was refreshing to me that Sully flat out admitted things like being wrong about how he thought Sam's life should/would go, and that he panicked and messed up with Reese. And I liked that apparently, being terrible at goodbyes is a stable personality trait of his :P. 

 

It as also fun to see Sully and Dean butt heads. They have such opposite philosophies for taking care of (and relating to) kids. They acted like they were competing in a District Championship match for the "good big brother" award.

 

When Dean asked Weems why kids liked him, it didn't seem to me that it was because Dean is (or thinks he is) bad with kids. He's not, he's always been good with them and likes them. I think it's just that the zanna have SUCH a different style with kids than Dean does and he was genuinely curious why/how their way of dealing with kids works -- especially since, at that point, he could see that the zanna are good with kids, too. By "such a different style," I mean that Dean tends to treat kids like they're mature/adults or like adulthood is ten seconds away and he's got to make them feel/be ready for it, whereas the zanna are much softer and much more into childhood qua childhood than Dean has ever been.

 

I mean, that motel wasn't even all that craptastic or skeevy. ;)

 

It made sense to me that Sam would be at the motel by himself while John and Dean were off on a hunting trip. It seemed like John (understandably) thought that Sam was in that in-between stage of being too old to need a babysitter, but too young to come along on the hunt -- so what else was he going to do with him?

 

I *was* disappointed in the boring, ultra-clean motel, though! Come on, Mr. Set Designer, have a little more fun :P

 

I forgot to say that I liked seeing that Dean is a robe and slippers guy in the bunker. 

 

I thought that was hilarious. The robe looked SO COMFY. Dean continues to have top notch taste.

 

The only part I didn't like was the bullshit with the Cage. Why would Sam go back there? Fuck that. Sam didn't rebel back in the day and just went off with John, but he can rebel NOW! If God wants something, he can do it his own damn self.

 

ETA:

 

Weems having the ace in the hole of being an awesome air guitar player cracked me up -- especially because he was so good that when he played a riff, the guys had to admit that it was awesome and they could totally see why kids would love him for it.

 

Also -- DID you guys have imaginary friends when you were young? I did, but not at age 9! More like age 2. But mine was named Digger and had to have a seat at the dinner table.

Edited December 4, 2015 by rue721

[SueB]

Sadly, I did NOT have an imaginary friend as a kid.  I feel deprived.  

[catrox14]

I played alone with my Barbies with whom I talked to at length and planned my whole life with but I'm pretty sure I didn't have like the same imaginary friend all the time. Or if I did I don't remember it at all.

[AwesomO4000]

I was referring to Sully asking Sam if he might want something different...maybe he'd like to go to school? That's the first I've ever heard that Sam, or Dean for that matter, didn't go to school.

 

Ah, okay. I thought you meant why wasn't Sam going to school right then. As for Sully asking about going to school, I just assumed that he meant college, and therefore concentrating on studies more towards that goal.

 

Other than it being so laden with long-winded and pointless dialogue, my biggest issue with this episode is, to make it work, they altered Sam and Dean's young lives somewhat. Now, it wasn't enough to for me to say it was full-on retcon--it's been long-established Sam was a lonely kid, not because he was literally left alone, though--and sometimes these shiftings can work and actually improve the story. I just didn't think it did here. It felt rather lazy, to me. I mean, that motel wasn't even all that craptastic or skeevy. ;)

 

I didn't think it was too much of a retcon. We'd already seen Sam left alone when he was about maybe 12 or 13(?) I think in "The Girl Next Door," so this just extended that a little bit. As for the hotel room, I can see John not wanting to leave Sam someplace too sleezy if Sam was going to be by himself. Any trouble happened - break in, mugging, etc. - there might be questions and Sam might get found out and taken away by Child Services.

 

It was much less of a problem for me than the, in my opinion, bizarre idea that Dean was supposed to be 16 in "Bad Boys" and supposedly hadn't had any experience with girls yet, and that the Sam in the car playing with a toy plane (?) was supposed to be 12? None of that made any sense to me based on the boys previous history.

 

I enjoyed the insight into Sam in this episode, and I even enjoyed the Sully / Sam interaction. Someone he could voice his concerns about hunting to - since I could see Sam worrying that that wouldn't go over too well with John or Dean. Even though Sam was a little old to have an imaginary friend, it was nice that he - and Sully in response - acted a little older... discussing what ifs and plans for the future, like someone might do with a friend that age. But I can also see where it might've been a bit too talky for other viewers.

 

I *was* disappointed in the boring, ultra-clean motel, though! Come on, Mr. Set Designer, have a little more fun :P

 

I was too busy being amused at the farm vehicle decorations or whatever those were and thinking to myself, "What the heck kind of theme motel is this supposed to be? Do couples play farmer and farmer's daughter or something?"

Edited December 4, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

I didn't think it was too much of a retcon. We'd already seen Sam left alone when he was about maybe 12 or 13(?) I think in "The Girl Next Door," so this just extended that a little bit. As for the hotel room, I can see John not wanting to leave Sam someplace too sleezy if Sam was going to be by himself. Any trouble happened - break in, mugging, etc. - there might be questions and Sam might get found out and taken away by Child Services.

 

Sorry, AwesomeO, you take me way too seriously. I was just making a bit of a joke about the motel room. I just appreciate the rooms when they're a bit more colorful. 

 

As to Sam being left alone: as I said before, I don't think it is a retcon, but it does shift how I thought of Sam previously a bit. It's not that Sam was left alone that I take issue with--that's not actually new information--it's that this episode basically said to me Sam was a sad and lonely kid because was literally left alone. I previously thought Sam was a lonely kid because he always felt like he was somehow wrong and never felt like he fit even when he was in a crowded room. To me, they went the lazy route of making Sam literally lonely so they didn't have to deal with why John and Dean didn't know Sam had an imaginary friend who wasn't really imaginary. It's a pity because I think my previous assessment of Sam was deeper and richer than the version they made here.

Edited December 4, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

As to Sam being left alone: as I said before, I don't think it is a retcon, but it does shift how I thought of Sam previously a bit. It's not that Sam was left alone that I take issue with--that's not actually new information--it's that this episode basically said to me Sam was a sad and lonely kid because was literally left alone. I previously thought Sam was a lonely kid because he always felt like he was somehow wrong and never felt like he fit even when he was in a crowded room. To me, they went the lazy route of making Sam literally lonely so they didn't have to deal with why John and Dean didn't know Sam had an imaginary friend who wasn't really imaginary. It's a pity because I think my previous assessment of Sam was deeper and richer than the version they made here.

 

I can see that, but I think Sam could be both. Sam said that even in college - where he had lots of friends - he still didn't quite feel like he belonged. And someone who was only lonley because they were left alone might potentially flourish with lots of people to interact with and just soak up that companionship, going to parties and really enjoying a social life now that he had a chance. But for some reason, Sam didn't feel like he had belonged. Even in this episode, he isolated himself from Sully as soon as he thought he might have the chance to "belong" with his family, but again - as we saw later - that really didn't work for long. No matter how much Sam wanted to fit in with John and Dean - and we saw here that Sam did want to fit in and be a hunter like Dean and John - in the end he didn't and first ran away - Flagstaff - and then later went off to find where he belonged in college... where again he maybe didn't really.

 

So for me this didn't really change that characterization of Sam not feeling like he belonged because he felt different. For me this kind of actually made that sadder, because it showed me that it wasn't always a Sam and John clashing thing and it wasn't that he always just "wanted a normal life", at least not when Sam was 9, and that Sam actually did want to be accepted by John as worthy of being a hunter - at least that's what he thought that he wanted. But somewhere along the line, that didn't work out, and part of that still might have been because Sam somehow felt wrong and like he didn't belong - like Lucifer tried to lure Sam in by telling him that he never really belonged and the reason why he felt that way was because he always belonged with him (Lucifer)...

 

And I think part of the reason Sam was so thouroughly pissed with Lucifer that he couldn't think rationally when it came to wanting to kill him was because I think Lucifer hit a nerve with that one. Whenever Lucifer started bringing up stuff like that, instead of shrugging it off, Sam would get really, really pissed off while trying to deny it... so for me, yeah, Sam still had those issues. For me, this episode actually deepened that, because it cleared up for me that it wasn't just that Sam always wanted a normal life with Thanksgiving around the table* (or as some have suggested: that Sam always thought he was better than his family), but he actually at one point did want to be part of the hunting family with Dean and John, but it still didn't work out... and feeling like he was "wrong" could have been one of the reasons for that.

 

So I think it could still be both... And I'm really glad that the episode cleared up that point that Sam at one point did want to be an important part of his family, and not that he always wanted something "better." I love the episode for that alone.

 

* Although I think there was maybe some of that wanting a regular family life a little at one point, because maybe Sam thought he could "belong" there.

[catrox14]

I dunno I feel like Sam's uber lonely childhood is close to a retcon for me. And I think its having the possibly unintended effect of rolling back Dean's role as a brother/father figure to Sam to just a big brother that really wasn't there for Sam as much as has been implied for the first 5 seasons. It started in s7 with Bobby apparently being the place the boys were sent to when they weren't with John, and apparently a lot more than we ever knew given how Bobby was introduced as just the family friend and became Uncle not!Dad Bobby in s7.

 

The CARVER era indeed. Bleh.

[SueB]

This is an interesting discussion.  I thought Sully kinda put the "run away and be your own person" idea further into Sam's mind than perhaps it was.  And then when Sam went to be with John and Dean, he found out it wasn't what he hoped.  Dean SOOOOO imprinted on John and Sam probably never did.  So if Sam asked questions or did anything that was not the John/Dean way... perhaps that contributed to his "oddball" issue.

 

It's sort of my head canon that once they got to a certain age, he didn't drop them with anyone.  Piecing together the bits...

1) First, I'm keeping Dean at 14 in Bad Boys my head canon because that "director's decision" was a dumb idea and I'm sticking with that. I'm treating that as a mistake that can't be corrected so I'm going to ignore it. (Essential Emily Post point: if someone has a piece of loose thread sticking on their clothes, you point it out so they can remove it -- it's fixable. If they have an ink stain on their shirt pocket, you ignore it because they can't fix it.  I'm applying the Emily Post rules of etiquette to what I consider an obvious production gaff.  So THERE. *flips hair melodramatically*)

2) In Jan Dean turns 14 and Sam is still 8 (because his Birthday is in May) and in school.  So he stays with "Uncle Bobby" to have a consistent school location and so that CPS doesn't come looking.

3) In summer Dean is still 14 and now Sam is 9.  Dad thinks Sam is too young to hunt so he is spending his summer vacation on lockdown in a motel room. On lockdown so that no one gets to him or asks questions.  So Sam, bored out of his gourd, invents Sully as his imaginary friend when John and Dean leave for small hunting trips.

4) Dean FINALLY wears down John to let Sammy come and Sam meets up with them.  Dean kills his first werewolf and Sam sleeps in the backseat of the Impala while it's being burned.... and canon is in line.

 

Now this leaves one SERIOUS bit of shenanigans... take a bus to Minnesota??? By himself???  Yeah, Jenny Klein messed up on that one IMO.  A better answer would have been "I need to be waiting in the parking lot, ready to go, because Dad is coming by in 15 mins and he'll be pissed if I'm not standing there waiting."  So... I'm going to not completely ignore the bus ride but I'm not going to dwell on it.  I'll call it shenanigans and leave it at that.

[Demented Daisy]

If this is the summer after Bad Boys, Sam grew up fast from that little boy playing with a plane in the Impala.  ;-)

[DittyDotDot]

Sam said that even in college - where he had lots of friends - he still didn't quite feel like he belonged. And someone who was only lonely because they were left alone might potentially flourish with lots of people to interact with and just soak up that companionship, going to parties and really enjoying a social life now that he had a chance. But for some reason, Sam didn't feel like he had belonged. 

 

This is exactly how I would've characterized Sam before this episode. But now I feel like it's "surface" lonely. I really don't know how to explain this, I guess the difference to me is: Sam feeling lonely even when Dean or John or anyone is by his side seems more about Sam than Sam being lonely because he was left behind and excluded from Dean and John's hunting trip. One scenario is the result of other's actions and can be fixed by them including him, the other is is the result of something inside Sam and can only be fixed by Sam.

 

I just realized, there's a lot of the show being overly-literal this season. Sam was literally alone rather than just being lonely; Lucifer's cage is literally a cage rather than just a metaphor; Crowley is literally holding court...well, it's probably not just this season, but probably more like me just now seeing it. Ah well, whatch gonna do.

 

 

If this is the summer after Bad Boys, Sam grew up fast from that little boy playing with a plane in the Impala.  ;-)

 

Physically, anyway...he did have and "imaginary" friend, after all. ;)

 

Which leads me to, if this is the summer after Bad Boys, that would put Sam, at minimum, 10-years-old--I refuse to believe that bullshit of Dean being 16 in Bad Boys--isn't that kinda old for someone to be having an imaginary friend? I mean, I had one, but I was like 4-years-old at the time. And, I've heard my brother had one--his was a deer--but again, I believe he was 4, too (I wasn't born yet, so I don't have first hand knowledge there). And, one of my nieces had a dog imaginary friend from age 3-5. I'm surprised Dean and John didn't think there was something hinky with Sam considering his age.

Edited December 5, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

Now this leaves one SERIOUS bit of shenanigans... take a bus to Minnesota??? By himself???  Yeah, Jenny Klein messed up on that one IMO.  A better answer would have been "I need to be waiting in the parking lot, ready to go, because Dad is coming by in 15 mins and he'll be pissed if I'm not standing there waiting."  So... I'm going to not completely ignore the bus ride but I'm not going to dwell on it.  I'll call it shenanigans and leave it at that.

 

I like your timeline, SueB.

 

As for the above, nowadays, I agree, but back when I was a kid... starting at about 12 or so - but I looked much youger - my sister (just turned 10 and looking about 8 if that) and I would travel every summer on airplanes alone, including changing gates and sometimes terminals, by ourselves (Sometimes with various pieces of hand luggage). And no attendants took us to the next gate in those little cart things, even if the first plane was late. My sister and I often had to run on our own to the next gate or terminal (Orlando was our connection airport back then, and they would have elevated trams to take you from one terminal to another), and no one ever questioned the two kids with the boarding passes all alone in the airport going from one plane to another. And none of the attendants on the second plane made sure that there were relatives to pick us up when we left the plane - in other words we could've told them "yes, our mother / Nana / etc. is waiting for us" and they would've believed us, and off we could've gone. Weirdly, we thought this was a perfectly normal thing to do. (This was the late 70s early 80s).

 

So, I can fanwank that John called the bus station and told them that Sam would be coming and that it was an emergency that he get on the bus to meet thim and purchase the ticket over the phone, etc. and that when a Sam showed up, they would help him get on the bus. Once my Mom dropped us off at the airport check-in counter and got our luggage on, we could've gone on our own. Back then she could and someties did go to the first gate with us (you can't nowadays), but it wasn't necessary - and definitely the transfers were on our own. Likely the flight attendants might've known to look for us at the next gate, but they didn't think anything of us getting to that next gate on our own. I guess times were definitely different back then.

[SueB]

I accept your fanwank of John having a ticket waiting.  

 

And truth is, I took an AIRPLANE alone when I was 9.  Okay, it was Sioux City, IA to Omaha, NE  and the flight lasted 30 mins, and my mom dropped me off and my aunt picked me up.  But, truth is, people looked out for other people back in ancient days.  

[AwesomO4000]

This is exactly how I would've characterized Sam before this episode. But now I feel like it's "surface" lonely. I really don't know how to explain this, I guess the difference to me is: Sam feeling lonely even when Dean or John or anyone is by his side seems more about Sam than Sam being lonely because he was left behind and excluded from Dean and John's hunting trip. One scenario is the result of other's actions and can be fixed by them including him, the other is is the result of something inside Sam and can only be fixed by Sam.

 

I get what you are saying, but I'm still okay with it, because it still turned out that it really didn't "take." Ultimately Dean and John including Sam didn't really fix the problem. Sam still ended up running away and still turned to studying with the goal of going to college to try to find where he "belonged"... In college, Sam connected with Jessica, but we saw that she still had to talk him into going to the party, because he apparently didn't quite feel comfortable there. So I am still feeling that there was at least something inside Sam that was preventing him from feeling entirely comfortable and not lonely even in a crowd of people. Heh, I remember once or twice in the early seasons where Sam would even bring his computer and spend bar time researching cases rather than socializing.

 

But I can see your writers being too literal complaint as well.

[catrox14]

 

But I can see your writers being too literal complaint as well.

 

I feel like the TOO LITERAL is intentional. It's bugging me all season as y'all know.

 

I realize now that Sully bugged me because should he really have been actively encouraging Sam to run away and then is hurt when Sam kicked him to the curb? And how do we know that Sully didn't purposefully lure Reese's sister to the street. 

 

Like I feel like Dean saying their wasn't a monstrous bone in Sully's body was.....not right. Man, it's driving me crazy!

Edited December 5, 2015 by catrox14

[Zanne]

Also -- DID you guys have imaginary friends when you were young? I did, but not at age 9! More like age 2. But mine was named Digger and had to have a seat at the dinner table.

 

 

Which leads me to, if this is the summer after Bad Boys, that would put Sam, at minimum, 10-years-old--I refuse to believe that bullshit of Dean being 16 in Bad Boys--isn't that kinda old for someone to be having an imaginary friend? I mean, I had one, but I was like 4-years-old at the time. And, I've heard my brother had one--his was a deer--but again, I believe he was 4, too (I wasn't born yet, so I don't have first hand knowledge there). And, one of my nieces had a dog imaginary friend from age 3-5. I'm surprised Dean and John didn't think there was something hinky with Sam considering his age.

 

At that age, Sam would be in 5th or 6th grade. There is no way he would have an imaginary friend and not think it was weird himself, much less his dad and older brother. Kids at that age talking to imaginary people is more a sign of childhood schizophrenia than imaginary friend. No, I'm not a doctor, but I've taught long enough to know I haven't seen or heard of it, nor have my colleagues. Knowing what the Winchesters know, they should have been investigating the weirdness instead of leaving a child potentially on the edge of a psychotic break alone in a motel. For the imaginary friend thing to really work for me, Sam needed to be at least three to four years younger.

[Mick Lady]

From the recap:

 

Sully's appearance also gives us a chance to see little Sam coping with little-brother loneliness and the truth that, even though it has meant a scary path, being a hunter is a gig he was not only steered toward but chose for himself -- just as making a tremendous self-sacrifice by entering the cage again is one that he is committing to a little more every week.

 

 

Guys, our recapper isn't getting enough love around here. This is the stuff that keeps this show alive here! Show a little love!

[DittyDotDot]

At that age, Sam would be in 5th or 6th grade. There is no way he would have an imaginary friend and not think it was weird himself, much less his dad and older brother. Kids at that age talking to imaginary people is more a sign of childhood schizophrenia than imaginary friend. No, I'm not a doctor, but I've taught long enough to know I haven't seen or heard of it, nor have my colleagues. Knowing what the Winchesters know, they should have been investigating the weirdness instead of leaving a child potentially on the edge of a psychotic break alone in a motel. For the imaginary friend thing to really work for me, Sam needed to be at least three to four years younger.

 

Oh dear...perhaps me telling my 12-year-old niece she was probably okay as long as the voices in her head didn't start answering her wasn't really the best advice. ;)

 

Yeah, I probably should've noticed the age thing lots earlier. Perhaps I would've connected with it better if Sam were younger?

[Mick Lady]

If I didn't love you already SueB, this:

I'm applying the Emily Post rules of etiquette to what I consider an obvious production gaff.  So THERE. *flips hair melodramatically*)

 

 

would do it!

 

That aside, I like your timeline. Better than the writer's managed. But that sadly doesn't surprise me! And the bus bugged the hell out of me!

Edited December 5, 2015 by Mick Lady

[DittyDotDot]

2) In Jan Dean turns 14 and Sam is still 8 (because his Birthday is in May) and in school.  So he stays with "Uncle Bobby" to have a consistent school location and so that CPS doesn't come looking.

 

But, Dean is only 4 years older than Sam. Or, wait, is this some of that "new" math I never got because I'm an old fart?

[Mick Lady]

Sadly, I did NOT have an imaginary friend as a kid.  I feel deprived.  

 

Solidarity sister! (I'm just catching up, can you tell?) But I had six brothers and a sister. And a dog. And a horse. Not much room left.

[Zanne]

Thinking back on show canon, Sully must have been wearing kevlar when he first met Sam since John already had given Sam a .45 to kill the monster in the closet.

 

Unless...the monster in the closet Sam was talking about was Sully! 

[catrox14]

But, Dean is only 4 years older than Sam. Or, wait, is this some of that "new" math I never got because I'm an old fart?

 

Wouldn't Dean be closer 5 years older than Sam than 4 years?  Dean was born Jan 24, 1979. Sam was born May 2, 1983. So like today Dean would 36 years and 10 months and Sam is 32 years and 4 months so split the baby and Dean is 4.5 years older than Sam? Or is my math all wrong?

[DittyDotDot]

No, your math is fine unless, you're also suggesting the difference between 14 and 8 is 4.5? That's the age difference I was questioning. 

[catrox14]

No, your math is fine unless, you're also suggesting the difference between 14 and 8 is 4.5? That's the age difference I was questioning. 

 

Nope I'm not questioning your questioning. Just trying to figure if I have their age difference approximately correct. Math is not my strong suit. And this show does not help!

[mertensia]

Sam was told to take a bus to Milwaukee. That is in Wisconsin, not Minnesota.

[Demented Daisy]

I didn't have an imaginary friend, either.  I started reading at 4 and spent the rest of my childhood with my nose in a book.

[SueB]

Sam was told to take a bus to Milwaukee. That is in Wisconsin, not Minnesota.

Doh... my bad.  I just remembered the "M" sound.  

 

I didn't have an imaginary friend, either.  I started reading at 4 and spent the rest of my childhood with my nose in a book.

Me too.  

 

"There is no Frigate like a Book" -- Emily Dickenson

 

 

So I got in a good rewatch.  I'm going to do a little gushing... step back unless you want to get gushy sparkle stuff all over...

 

The Zanna as a concept - how WONDERFUL!  I don't know what Mattie's issues were (before being scarred for life by Sparkle-blood trauma) but I like the idea that imaginary friends are actually a thing and they are helpful.  I'm sticking with the reason that those murdered were all in one location and Sully's posse is because he's a regional manager.  I wouldn't mind some future backstory on Zanna.  They've just opened up another world almost because while they aren't in the Fairy realm, they are also invisible and a highly secret society.  

 

The way Sam immediately trusted Sully and Sully unambiguously believed Sam about the Cage.  It's like a safe space for Sam.  One where his brother doesn't judge him (and Dean ADORES Sam but judges him in a way that all our siblings do).  

 

I liked the pop culture references. RIE manual ... does that replace Dr Spock?   Ariel. Totoro ... I didn't know this but it's some artsy Japanese anime thing ... which means Dean watches more than Japanese cartoon porn.  

 

"When was the last time you saw Nikki the Mermaid".  What a great freaking line.

 

I really hope the Zanna come back in the battle with the Big Bad.  Maybe they scurry all the children away while the grown-ups are fighting.  I just like the idea that Supernatural is world-building this year.  We've got those ghoulpires and Zanna now in addition to expansion on the witches.  I really want the Faeries to come back and help the Winchesters.

 

Finally, RSJ did a good job of directing.  Four scenes come to mind: 1) the opener in the kitchen was just great, 2) the Sparkle-blood scene, 3) Weems guitar riff, and 4) Reese breakdown. All were very memorable for me.  

 

/gush off... please feel free to remove your waders at this time...

[Bishop]

I wasn't sure about this episode when I first read the pitch for it, but I really enjoyed it.  It was just light and fun in a lot of ways, and it had great Dean/Sam moments with the snark and the humor.  I also think the actor who played Sully was wonderful too.  It also gave us some poignant moments for how Sam (and Dean) were raised as children.  I can buy Sam being left alone in a motel because we have seen the boys being left alone as young children by their father.  I can totally believe John doing that, and it was twisted and sad, imo, that Dean was the one to call his younger brother to check in on him while their father sat in the car honking the horn. 

 

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Bishop

[SueB]

And yes, I failed at Math last night.

[ahrtee]

I was fully prepared to hate this episode, because I was sure it was going to be a total retcon and wind up showing how Dean *didn't* take care of Sam at all and that's why he was left alone and needed an imaginary friend.  So I was at least a little relieved that they didn't go quite that far, though I agree with everyone upthread that (a) there's no way John would leave Sam alone at age 9, *especially* if he was deemed too young to hunt with them (I don't know when John realized--or feared-- the demon was after Sam, but I think it was before then); (b) similarly, no way John would ask Sam to get on a bus alone (and as for calling the station and telling them...well, that's hardly staying under the radar).  Even if they weren't going to Minnesota, I would think a stop at Pastor Jim's en route to Milwaukee would be more logical at that age.  After all, they can get anywhere in the country in two hours or less!  And ( c) yes, as others have pointed out, Sam is way too old for an imaginary friend at age 9.  It gets confusing, because I can't see him inventing/calling Sully at a younger age, because I think Dean was pretty much hovering (especially after the shtriga), and yeah, there was always that .45 his dad gave him.  

 

I'm probably too invested in that right now, because I just finished reading "Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend" where Budo, the narrator, points out that most imaginary friends disappear right around kindergarten, when kids start living in the real world and making their own friends (Budo's boy was in third grade, but that was because he was autistic and wasn't nearly as connected to the real world as other kids were.)  And how sad is it that I'm debating what happened in a  TV show by using examples from a novel?  

 

But there was one interesting point in both works:  in the book, Budo was terrified of disappearing, which is what happens when your child stops believing in you.  He was considering having himself and other imaginary friends make themselves indispensable to their humans, in order to keep themselves alive.  So, when you consider Sully's actions, as Catrox said:

 

I realize now that Sully bugged me because should he really have been actively encouraging Sam to run away and then is hurt when Sam kicked him to the curb? And how do we know that Sully didn't purposefully lure Reese's sister to the street. 

 

Like I feel like Dean saying their wasn't a monstrous bone in Sully's body was.....not right. Man, it's driving me crazy!

 

This is exactly what I was thinking.  I mean, who encourages a *9-year-old* to run away--where?  What would he do?  Was Sully planning on hiding him out and bringing him food or was he going to make himself visible and become his new "father"?  And even giving him the benefit of the doubt, saying he didn't think things through, and it was this same lack of foresight that caused Reese's sister's accident--then why should Sam trust Sully's judgment now about jumping into the cage?  

 

I'd like to think this was very subtle writing, but I'm pretty sure it's just sloppy.  *sigh*

 

[SueB]

ahrtee, I can't argue with any of your logic.  This is one of those topics (9 years old is too old for an imaginary friend and too young to take the bus to Milwaukee alone) that I just let slide because I can't fix it.  Katie McGrath on the BBC TV show "Merlin" use to say that every time she had a logic problem she's mutter "talking dragon, talking dragon" to herself (because there was one on the show and after THAT other stuff seems pretty tame in terms of leaps of faith).  I'm going "talking dragon" on the 9 year old issue but that doesn't mean I expect others to.

 

I did think about the "running away" idea and whether or not that was reasonable for a Zanna to suggest that.  It's kinda a tough call. On the one hand the Zanna have a child-like innocence that allows them to totally related to their charges.  Sparkle and Nikki appeared to genuinely enjoy their games with their kids.  And Sully, when he pretended to spew waffles was TOTALLY channeling an inner 9 years old at that moment.  So, I'm not sure the Zanna's sensibilities are the same as our adult sensibilities.  While they seemed more than capable of putting the stops on stuff, they also seemed to be able to get into the kid's mindset in a genuine way that the kids related to.  If they weren't genuinely a child's friend (vice guidance counselor), the kids would have picked up on that.  Still, "Whatever is best for the child." seemed to be their mission statement.  Perhaps Sully looked at the hunter's life and thought - 'Sam is going to get killed or worse with this life."  Sam was a fairly capable kid, maybe Sully thought he'd take off but eventually wind up in CPS and have a different family to take care of him.  IDK.  It's clear Sully thought "hunting life" was NOT Sam's life.  And he freely admitted he was wrong.  Although, I gotta say, Sam's life has been pretty rough.  Also, Sam brought up possibly running away, Sully supported him.  If Sully had brought it up, I'd have been looking pretty hard at him for motivation.  

 

Short answer: I think Sully was somewhat childlike because that's part of who Zanna are. I think he genuinely wanted what was best for Sam.