General Gabbery: DWTS

[Andie1]

Quote

There's no medical reason that I know of that prevented James from doing a fast Latin dance involving hip action. 

Possibly  his injury prevented him from doing a proper hip action, he did a sort of hip thing on the cha cha,  it wasn't proper hip action. Where his injury occurred it could have really affected those muscle groups.  He avoided the Latin dances with hip action even joked about it with Helio . I still thought he was a great dancer who took risks and was super enjoyable to watch.  His Latin might not have been all that, but his Viennese Waltz both in style and technique is probably my all time favourite. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by Andie1

[boyznkatz]

Why should anyone get a pass from doing a certain dance? If they suck, they should get a low score and move on. They shouldn't just protect people they like. Plenty of old people have been expected to do sambas. They didn't get a pass for their age.

[spanana]

15 hours ago, PBGamer89 said:

Bringing this into perspective: about the special treatment. It's one thing to not give the under 18 crowd the Rumba for instance and that's understandable. but look at certain celebs.

 

James for example: He avoided both party Latin dances (that he likely would've struggled with) Salsa and Samba. He had Paso and Cha Cha Week 2 and 3 and then basically no fast Latin dances until his semifinals trio Jive, a Latin dance that doesn't require hip action.

Then in the finals he got a repeat Foxtrot, a style he tied for top on the premiere. Then the following night on the fusions he got two Ballroom styles as his fusion. I've never seen someone avoid Latin in such a way.

This 100% goes both ways though and I don't particularly find it a gender thing.  One of my biggest complaints S20 wasn't that Rumer was an unworthy winner necessarily, but the show went out of their way to give her only dances she excelled at down the home stretch of the last several weeks.  She was a very good ballroom standard dancer and not great at latin numbers that required hips.  She could do a paso or an AT, but wasn't great at samba or salsa or cha cha.   She also wasn't very good at jive or anything fast like that.  Her jazz wasn't good either but that I blame on Jenna/Val who choreographed complete crap. The last fast dance she had was in week 7, where she got a jive and struggled.  For the last three weeks she only had slow dances and did two versions of a foxtrot in the finals.  Her first what I presume was a re-do of her original foxtrot and then also got a foxtrot as part of her fusion.  Whereas Riker got a salsa/quickstep fusion.

Pretty sure Rumer managed to get 4 versions of a foxtrot over the course of the season.

IMO the show will help whoever it wants to help in that moment and sometimes they "help" certain people by keeping them away from dances that they aren't great at during the last few weeks of the season.

Also since I'm sure it will be brought up, I'm not denying that Rumer at least was assigned most of the dances at one point in the season.  They just gave her all the ones she wasn't that great at early on so her arc would have the narrative they wanted, and then any re-dos were solely areas where she excelled.

Edited October 18, 2017 by spanana

[tessaforever]

On 10/16/2017 at 10:52 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I do know that I personally didn't like Normani last season. I thought she was a terrific dancer and deserved to win, or at least get second. I hated that she got third and thought it was BS, but I could also see that David simply had more fans and Normani was probably hurt by the fact that her girl group most likely has more international fans who couldn't vote for her last season. I didn't like Normani all that much, but even I knew she deserved to get a better place than David. I just didn't like her in the way that I liked Nancy or Nick. But man, I did also love that Rashad won because he was my third favourite and a good dancer as well. Plus, it was a genuinely nice surprise that Normani didn't win like predicted at the beginning of the season. 

This 1000%. I couldn't figure Normani out and it made it difficult to root for her. In packages, talking heads, during the judging, etc., the narrative being put forth by Normani, Val, and the producers was that she was a shy girl who, throughout the show, was beginning to "find herself", come out of her shell, and take on womanhood. Out of interest I looked through her Instagram during the time she was on DWTS and I was surprised - at first I didn't think it was her! Picture after picture (going back far before her time on DWTS) of her sexily posed and scantily clad, clearly comfortable in front of audiences and in front of the camera. Now, there's nothing wrong with that at all - she's gorgeous, and even if she wasn't, she can wear whatever she wants. It's just that it didn't match what she was saying on the show week after week. That's why I just couldn't root for her. 

Now Jordan, on the other hand, obviously has a lot of training, but other than him expressing his delight at being on the show, I haven't felt like he's trying to convince me of any kind of "journey", especially not one that is actually at odds with who he is in real life. He's just there to compete, and I really, really wish that Normani had approached the show the same way, rather than trying to make us all think she was blossoming. 

On 10/16/2017 at 11:13 PM, spanana said:

Thanks for bringing this over here. I think what is hard is that there are so many variables with DWTS that are hard to control.  It makes a difference what other celebs are cast in a particular season. Is it a competitive season or not? The same person might not have the same outcome in two different seasons. It matters who your pro partner is, their popularity, and how the general public feels about them at any particular time (did said partner just win, have they never won, are they new, etc.)  It matters how you and your pro portray yourself as a couple.  You can be Jordan/Lindsay who get along like gangbusters or you can be Vanessa/Maks who clearly can't stand each other.  The former is going to draw more loyalty from fans.  It matters what sort of choreography your pro puts together that season.  Pros tend to have on/off seasons in that department.

Additionally it also matters what sort of fanbase one has, whether or not it's current, etc.  See someone like Debbie who wasn't bad but not coming in with a current fanbase to get her through those first few weeks.  You can't win totally on a pre-existing fanbase (see Normani) but you need one to get you through the first several weeks until you can catch on with the main DWTS demos.  

It even matters the particularly format of that season. When is the first elimination? Is there a first week elimination? Are their double eliminations? Did somebody have to drop out?  Dance order matters particularly early in the season.  The show tends to bury people they want gone in the 2nd and 3rd position early on, usually the middle aged to older females (see Debbie, Kim Fields, Lea Thompson, and others of the sort). And that doesn't even take into account all the age and experience variables that we talk about endlessly, let alone the TPTB pimping which can be subjective.

Absolutely, there are so many factors. Every time Normani is mentioned, it really should be said that Val whiffed her freestyle, just as he did with Zendaya and kind of with Janel and others as well (Ginger's - blech). The only 2 good freestyles I can think of Val doing were Laurie and Rumer, and sure enough, they won. More responsibility for Normani's season & result needs to be placed on Val!!

[bealled]

16 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

This 1000%. I couldn't figure Normani out and it made it difficult to root for her. In packages, talking heads, during the judging, etc., the narrative being put forth by Normani, Val, and the producers was that she was a shy girl who, throughout the show, was beginning to "find herself", come out of her shell, and take on womanhood. Out of interest I looked through her Instagram during the time she was on DWTS and I was surprised - at first I didn't think it was her! Picture after picture (going back far before her time on DWTS) of her sexily posed and scantily clad, clearly comfortable in front of audiences and in front of the camera. Now, there's nothing wrong with that at all - she's gorgeous, and even if she wasn't, she can wear whatever she wants. It's just that it didn't match what she was saying on the show week after week. That's why I just couldn't root for her.

I think Normani is actually shy or introverted. I remember when she was on The X Factor originally with Fifth Harmony, she seemed like one of the quieter girls in the group and kind of in the background. She was never a lead of the group, that was always Camila/Lauren/Dinah. Now between X Factor and being on DWTS she probably did get less shy and more comfortable performing. I do think her blossoming arc was organic and genuine because in Fifth Harmony I feel like she has never been one of the more popular girls in the group. Her and Ally were kind of in the background if you ask me. So on DWTS I think Normani probably did feel like she was coming into her own, being recognized publicly for herself not the group, and actually allowing her personality to shine through. Now I don't think she was necessarily shy on DWTS (I would consider Simone the shy contestant last season), but I do think she could have been considered to be blossoming while on the show. But you don't have to connect with her story anyway. It seems people always connect with some contestants over others and there isn't necessarily a reason for it. I don't think we have to justify why we like or dislike someone. Sometimes I connect with the best dancer, and sometimes I connect with an underdog. This season I've connected with Frankie and not really anyone else.

[tessaforever]

29 minutes ago, bealled said:

I think Normani is actually shy or introverted. I remember when she was on The X Factor originally with Fifth Harmony, she seemed like one of the quieter girls in the group and kind of in the background. She was never a lead of the group, that was always Camila/Lauren/Dinah. Now between X Factor and being on DWTS she probably did get less shy and more comfortable performing. I do think her blossoming arc was organic and genuine because in Fifth Harmony I feel like she has never been one of the more popular girls in the group. Her and Ally were kind of in the background if you ask me. So on DWTS I think Normani probably did feel like she was coming into her own, being recognized publicly for herself not the group, and actually allowing her personality to shine through. Now I don't think she was necessarily shy on DWTS (I would consider Simone the shy contestant last season), but I do think she could have been considered to be blossoming while on the show. But you don't have to connect with her story anyway. It seems people always connect with some contestants over others and there isn't necessarily a reason for it. I don't think we have to justify why we like or dislike someone. Sometimes I connect with the best dancer, and sometimes I connect with an underdog. This season I've connected with Frankie and not really anyone else.

That's good to know, I didn't know anything about her coming into DWTS. Although I think just choosing to perform on X Factor takes some guts, for sure. Anyway, I never can figure out the exact "formula" of why I connect with a contestant or not. But I know that their personality definitely plays into it, not just their dancing. Which I think is what the showrunners want (I remember one producer who said "We always want you to have at least one crush per season".) Lol!

[bealled]

16 minutes ago, tessaforever said:

That's good to know, I didn't know anything about her coming into DWTS. Although I think just choosing to perform on X Factor takes some guts, for sure. Anyway, I never can figure out the exact "formula" of why I connect with a contestant or not. But I know that their personality definitely plays into it, not just their dancing. Which I think is what the showrunners want (I remember one producer who said "We always want you to have at least one crush per season".) Lol!

I think we always feel like performers must not be shy or introverted since they have such public professions, but I think many of them are that way. Frankie seems so different than I would have expected this season. I definitely think the show knows a good personality and charisma is part of what they want in a contestant. Rashad was a great example of that last season where a charming and likable personality makes everyone root for you, and of course his dancing was great too, but I think his personality is really what won everyone over.

[Andie1]

19 hours ago, bealled said:

Rashad was a great example of that last season where a charming and likable personality makes everyone root for you, and of course his dancing was great too

Rashad put something extra into his dancing and worked like a dog to become fluid in his movement. I don't see that in Frankie at all.

[calipiano81]

Yeah, I'm surprised at the Rashad and Frankie comparisons as well. Rashad did well with both standard and Latin ballroom, and he had presence and fluidity in his dancing. Frankie does better with the standard ballroom dances, but generally, his dancing is a bit stiff.

[boyznkatz]

Rashad was sexy AF. Frankie looks like a 12 year old. I guess I don't get the comparisons either.

[madpsych78]

We tend to talk about what characteristics the celebrities have that makes them attain finale or even winner status. But I think another factor that tends to get overlooked is THE PRO and their fanbase.

Rashad's a better dancer than David, and that is why he beat him, but I think the main reason he beat Normani is because the fans wanted Emma to win her first mirror ball, rather than Val winning his third. Plus, Val had just won the previous year. That may have also been the reason why David ranked higher than Normani despite not being as good of a dancer - besides the Cubs factor, David was paired with a pro who had not won.

Yet in the previous season, Laurie beat James - although there may have been many factors contributing to the win, I don't think Sharna's fanbase exceeds Val's. Therefore it was OK for Val to win again. I think Sharna's fanbase dropped when she only made it to 5th place with Charlie White.

The pro also influences celebs who are voted off much sooner than expected - for example, Jodie Sweetin and Keo. I think she would have made the finals if she had been paired with Val.

I wouldn't count out Jordan winning even as the best technical dancer because his pro is Lindsay. She has gotten far in previous seasons with celebs with way less talent. Lots of people are saying this is her year to win.

[Emily-D]

People hugely overestimate pro fanbases. They make little or no difference unless it’s Derek or Val. Or Maks when he’d gone 15+ seasons without a win.

[calipiano81]

I know a lot of people want Lindsay to win, and she very well might with Jordan. But this is Mark's 15th season since his last win, nearly 3X the number of seasons Lindsay has been a pro, with several near-misses. I think Mark's fans are as hungry as Lindsay's...

[Andie1]

Fanbases for the pros are what they are, but over the years I have voted for the contestant and I've tried to vote on dance ability, unless they have a poor personality. Overall my favorites have been partnered with Cheryl, Kym, Julianne, Karina, Tony, Derek, Mark, Val, Sharna, Artem, Emma and now Lindsay. So I think either Lindsey or Jordan are in good hands.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Andie1

[thefog]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 3:52 PM, boyznkatz said:

Rashad was sexy AF. Frankie looks like a 12 year old. I guess I don't get the comparisons either.

Rashad and Frankie are both underdogs - who embody the spirit of what DWTS was originally supposed to be about - celebrities who come into the competition with no dance training.  That's why ringer types usually don't win with the voting audience.

[calipiano81]

I personally compare Frankie a lot with Jack Osbourne. No dance training, similar strengths and weaknesses, good relationship with partner.

[Andie1]

The dance order for tonight has been tweeted by George

Nikki, Drew, Nick, Victoria, Terrell, Frankie, Vanessa, Jordan, Lindsey.

On 10/22/2017 at 4:47 PM, calipiano81 said:

I personally compare Frankie a lot with Jack Osbourne. No dance training, similar strengths and weaknesses, good relationship with partner.

Oh Jack to me was much more endearing and authentic than Frankie.  Frankie has been an actor all his life.

On 10/22/2017 at 1:14 PM, escape said:

Rashad and Frankie are both underdogs - who embody the spirit of what DWTS was originally supposed to be about - celebrities who come into the competition with no dance training.  That's why ringer types usually don't win with the voting audience.

Rashad is a student of dance, Frankie, not so much.

[boyznkatz]

Frankie isn't the greatest dancer, but he is entertaining. He gets scored fairly. Acting is part of dance.

Jack and Kelly Osborne were about interesting as watching paint dry. They only got to the finals because Ozzy has a lot of fans, like Bristol Palin got to the finals because of her mother's fans.

[Andie1]

Jack is awesome. The guy suffers from MS and he went at the show  like a trooper, recognizing full well that he had to change his crazy lifestyle or die. People like Andy Dick don't get it, some thought Andy was great while on the show, I thought he was an ass clown. 

I remember how utterly gutted Jack was that his wife suffered a miscarriage, while he was on the show,  and I felt real sympathy for him because he loves her so much.  I loved his partnership with Cheryl and his wonderful self effacing sense of humor. And he got better and better throughout the season. He's the only Osbourne I can tolerate.

[boyznkatz]

8 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Jack is awesome. The guy suffers from MS and he went at the show  like a trooper, recognizing full well that he had to change his crazy lifestyle or die. People like Andy Dick don't get it, some thought Andy was great while on the show, I thought he was an ass clown. 

Well I agree that going on the show was admirable, but MS isn't always a death sentence. A good friend of mine has had it for 20 years, and she still works full time. Of course the show had to make it look like Jack was at death's door, much like they are doing this season with Victoria.

I agree Andy Dick is and always was a loser, although Sharna made him tolerable on the show.

[Andie1]

5 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Of course the show had to make it look like Jack was at death's door, much like they are doing this season with Victoria.

Actually no they didn't. It was the one season where the MS was not something horrible. He even said he managed quite well and it didn't affect his dancing.  However he was a depressive dyslexic with ADHD who had really severe issues with alcohol and drugs and knew he had to change or die.

I wonder about Frankie, car racing aside, he went wild there for awhile, and now he doesn't even check out his condition with a doctor.  There is something missing there.  

[boyznkatz]

Yeah that is weird about Frankie. He was a famous child actor, but hasn't really done any major acting in years (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). He seems like a pretty good actor so you would think he would be working.

Edited October 24, 2017 by boyznkatz

[McManda]

1 hour ago, boyznkatz said:

Yeah that is weird about Frankie. He was a famous child actor, but hasn't really done any major acting in years (someone can correct me if I'm wrong). He seems like a pretty good actor so you would think he would be working.

I think he just prioritizes (or prioritized) racing over acting. Patrick Dempsey did for awhile, too, after he left Grey's.

[Andie1]

36 minutes ago, McManda said:

I think he just prioritizes (or prioritized) racing over acting. Patrick Dempsey did for awhile, too, after he left Grey's.

hmm, there's a lot of gaps on his IMBD.

[calipiano81]

Courtney from Pure posted the the team dance members. Apparently the show went a different route with the team captains:

Spoiler

Team Drew: Drew/Emma, Vanessa/Maks, Victoria/Val, Frankie/Witney

 

Team Terrell: Terrell/Cheryl, Lindsey/Mark, Jordan/Lindsay, Nikki/Artem

 

How did the two best dancers end up on the same team?!! It kinda takes the suspense out of the whole thing.

Edited October 25, 2017 by calipiano81

[boyznkatz]

Drew is clearly shaping up to be the annoying "aw shucks" male contestant that is going to make the finals no matter how badly he dances. 

Terrell's team is so much better than the other team that they would almost have to try hard to lose. I can already see the C brothers choreograph a shirtless mess that is going to get skewered by Len.

[spanana]

It's not even that Terrell's team is better dancewise, though with both Jordan and Lindsey they probably are.  But they all just physically mesh up better.  I think it's going to be a lot harder to find choreo that works for a team of Vanessa, Drew, Frankie and Victoria--all very different body types and of various abilities.  Even just the visual of Drew dancing next to Frankie is sort of ludicrous just for the vast height differential.

I realize I don't remember all the details at this point, but I loved Jack Osbourne on the show and I also don't remember the show treating him like he was at deaths door.  Yeah, his MS came up a lot but it wasn't that big of an issue.  I remember he did a really nice freestyle with Cheryl.

As for Frankie, he might have had his own reasons for going away from Hollywood, but the thing he always had working against him is not having typical Hollywood leading man looks.  The transition from child actor to adult actor is hard.  It is why so many go off the rails.  He also was so closely associated with his role as Malcolm that when he went on auditions after that people only saw him as Malcolm or probably wouldn't see him at all.  Plus he's short and not a typical pretty boy type that would cast on a CW show or something like that.  Talent aside, I'm willing to bet people weren't knocking down his door.  He was too old to get booked for kid parts, but too young looking to get any sort of leading man role.

People can judge Frankie all they want for his dancing skills, but it seems a tad much to be judging him based on his inability to get work after Malcolm.  Or over what he has been doing with his time since the show ended.  I have never seen anything to suggest he went wild, besides his penchant for racing cars that ended in a fiery crash and severe injury.  Maybe he did go wild, I don't know.  But his story is likely similar to a million other kids who found fame on tv and then struggled to find work and remain relevant afterwards. 

Edited October 25, 2017 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

I was just wondering what happened to Frankie, that's all. His show seemed pretty popular and then he just disappeared.

[spanana]

2 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I was just wondering what happened to Frankie, that's all. His show seemed pretty popular and then he just disappeared.

That wasn't directed at you. There were aspersions in other posts about his potential wild past and insinuations about his life story that he's given here not checking out.  

[Andie1]

It is rather interesting that Jack Osbourne on the show was very upfront about his past and that made me root for him. BTW there are pictures of Jack and Frankie partying in Vegas about 10 years ago, and we know, because Jack told us that these were wild times for him.  Sure that doesn’t necessarily mean it was wild for Frankie.

And yet, there have been articles about Frankie, but we’re not supposed to acknowledge them?  Hey if he’s presenting as such a great guy that tries hard, I want to know what makes him so great, is it nostalgia ? Did he really punch his girlfriend and hold a gun to his head?  And why isn’t he seeing a doctor? 

http://www.alloy.com/entertainment/frankie-muniz-mini-stroke-causes-health-drugs-gun/

Edited October 26, 2017 by Andie1

[thefog]

4 hours ago, spanana said:

People can judge Frankie all they want for his dancing skills, but it seems a tad much to be judging him based on his inability to get work after Malcolm.  Or over what he has been doing with his time since the show ended.  I have never seen anything to suggest he went wild, besides his penchant for racing cars that ended in a fiery crash and severe injury.  Maybe he did go wild, I don't know.  But his story is likely similar to a million other kids who found fame on tv and then struggled to find work and remain relevant afterwards. 

Frankie reportedly has a whopping net worth of $40M.  Malcom In The Middle is very popular in syndication (residual checks).  So he continues to be smart about his money, he is probably set for life financially - and can afford to do what he wants.

[Andie1]

15 minutes ago, escape said:

Frankie reportedly has a whopping net worth of $40M.  Malcom In The Middle is very popular in syndication (residual checks).  So he continues to be smart about his money, he is probably set for life financially - and can afford to do what he wants.

So you mean he can afford to punch his girlfriend and hold a gun to his head? 

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Andie1 said:

It is rather interesting that Jack Osbourne on the show was very upfront about his past and that made me root for him. BTW there are pictures of Jack and Frankie partying in Vegas about 10 years ago, and we know, because Jack told us that these were wild times for him.  Sure that doesn’t necessarily mean it was wild for Frankie.

And yet, there have been articles about Frankie, but we’re not supposed to acknowledge them?  Hey if he’s presenting as such a great guy that tries hard, I want to know what makes him so great, is it nostalgia ? Did he really punch his girlfriend and hold a gun to his head?  And why isn’t he seeing a doctor? 

http://www.alloy.com/entertainment/frankie-muniz-mini-stroke-causes-health-drugs-gun/

Well, this article says that he claims that she was hitting him, not that he was hitting her. Clearly, he does have some neurological symptoms that are concerning, so I hope he's ok. It doesn't mean he still isn't a good person. He has seen doctors about his mini strokes, just not about his memory problems. But with this being out in the open now, I bet his neurologist does ask him more about his memory problems. 

[McManda]

He also said (about the domestic dispute incident) in 2013 that he and his at-the-time fiancee agreed that the whole issue was overblown and taken out of context. Not to discount whatever that was, but that seems to be quite literally the only time he made the news, which is kind of surprising when you compare him to other kid-turned-adult celebs like Amanda Bynes or Lindsay Lohan.

What's important is that in the last six years he seems to have learned and has kept a relatively low, arguably mature profile.

[Andie1]

Anytime somebody is using a gun or punching a woman in the face is one two many times. That is what is important. 

Last I heard neither Lindsay or Amanda physically harmed anyone other than possibly themselves. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Andie1

[Lady Calypso]

15 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Anytime somebody is using a gun or punching a woman in the face is one two many times. That is what is important. 

Last I heard neither Lindsay or Amanda physically harmed anyone other than possibly themselves. 

He didn't punch her; he was claiming she hit him, which doesn't seem to be true. So, really, Frankie WAS more harm to himself than others. 

[McManda]

5 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Anytime somebody is using a gun or punching a woman in the face is one two many times.

Last I heard neither Lindsay or Amanda physically harmed anyone other than possibly themselves. 

Of course. I passed no judgement on any of his actions. I also stated that I didn't mean to excuse them.

But I also think there are many sides to any story; in this case there's his side, her side, the side that made it into the media, and what actually happened. What I find important is that whatever happened that night, it doesn't seem to be reflective of his life as a whole. He seems like a decent enough person in arguably one of the most morally questionable industries and that's enough for me. Gossip gets around in Hollywood, even if they do their best to try to push it under the rug to suit their needs. If he were truly an awful person with the penchant for self harm and domestic violence there would have been rumblings of more than a one off event.

Maybe it's just me, but the truth is we don't know exactly what happened that night so I'm not going to condemn someone I don't know off of one he said/she said dispute spun into the media. I'd give anyone else the same courtesy, though you're welcome to think differently.

[Andie1]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

He didn't punch her; he was claiming she hit him, which doesn't seem to be true. So, really, Frankie WAS more harm to himself than others. 

You need to read the TMZ article that’s linked in that piece. He hit her according to them 

[McManda]

26 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

You need to read the TMZ article that’s linked in that piece. He hit her according to them 

Yes, the TMZ article states that her story is that he hit her. That same article also says that his story is that she hit him. 

That same article ALSO says neither had visible injuries and the police report mentions specifically evidence that his girlfriend may have been drinking.

Let's not cherry pick information to promote a personal agenda.

Edited October 26, 2017 by McManda
drinking, not driving

[Andie1]

5 minutes ago, McManda said:

Of course. I passed no judgement on any of his actions. I also stated that I didn't mean to excuse them.

But I also think there are many sides to any story; in this case there's his side, her side, the side that made it into the media, and what actually happened. What I find important is that whatever happened that night, it doesn't seem to be reflective of his life as a whole. He seems like a decent enough person in arguably one of the most morally questionable industries and that's enough for me. Gossip gets around in Hollywood, even if they do their best to try to push it under the rug to suit their needs. If he were truly an awful person with the penchant for self harm and domestic violence there would have been rumblings of more than a one off event.

Maybe it's just me, but the truth is we don't know exactly what happened that night so I'm not going to condemn someone I don't know off of one he said/she said dispute spun into the media. I'd give anyone else the same courtesy, though you're welcome to think differently.

And that’s  your prerogative.  For me, reading  about bizarro behaviour ,

having severe memory loss and not seeing a doctor is one big ol red  flag. 

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, Andie1 said:

You need to read the TMZ article that’s linked in that piece. He hit her according to them 

Oh! I don't know how I skipped over that paragraph! Totally my mistake! 

Yeah, whatever happened that night, there's a lot of conflicting reports and something was obviously very troubling. It's not right for either Frankie or his girlfriend at the time to be hitting one another (as both claimed that the other hit them, so it's hard to say who's truthful or not), and I do hope that that was the only night where things got out of control. 

He does seem to be more put together now, and he's lucky that he hasn't had any more public incidents like that, because child stars tend to struggle more when they're adults. I still do think that Frankie's not a bad person; he's made some bad mistakes, absolutely, but from how he presents himself, he doesn't seem like a bad person. 

However, I don't know Frankie, just like I don't know any other celebrity, so who really knows what goes on in their private life? I can only judge on what I see and hear. 

[Andie1]

4 minutes ago, McManda said:

Yes, the TMZ article states that her story is that he hit her. That same article also says that his story is that she hit him. 

That same article ALSO says neither had visible injuries.

Let's not cherry pick information to promote a personal agenda.

An agenda? Gee I wonder if there’s anyone else this season who has put a gun to his head or punched his girlfriend 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Andie1

[spanana]

15 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

An agenda? Gee I wonder if there’s anyone else this season who has put a gun to his head or punched his girlfriend 

Unless you were actually there in the room then you don't know what happened.  Especially since there are conflicting reports of the incident. You can not like Frankie. That is your prerogative.  But you also don't get to tell everyone else how to feel about him and cast aspersions on people for not immediately condemning him either.  Frankie may be awesome.  Maybe he sucks.  Maybe he's had a hard life and struggled post fame. I don't know him, just as I don't know any of the other celebs personally.  I'd be willing to bet that most of the people on this season have some sort of shady revelations in their past I don't know about.  It doesn't necessarily make them awful people...and no, I am not condoning domestic violence but the incident in question seems very unclear with conflicting reports.  Unless I hear further things about Frankie then I'm kind of okay with just basing my enjoyment of him based on what I see on this show.  Same way I don't really give a crap if he has a partying past, as you would be more hard pressed to find people in Hollywood that didn't have a wild partying period at some point, including many of our pros.

Frankie did leave Hollywood at some point and move to Arizona, so maybe he just realized that Hollywood and that lifestyle wasn't a healthy thing for him.

Edited October 26, 2017 by spanana

[Andie1]

Did TO hit anyone? Given that football players are prone to domestic violence and all.  

[McManda]

2 minutes ago, Andie1 said:

Did TO hit anyone? Given that football players are prone to domestic violence and all.  

Maybe he had intention to and didn't get the chance. Maybe he had no intention to at all. We don't know, but that doesn't make his jive any less entertaining.

Just like we also don't know the details of what really happened with Frankie.

You've made your position clear, as I think have I. Let's agree to disagree. 

[radishcake]

Guys move it back to talking about the show. Not speculation, not your personal opinions about each other, the show. Posts will be hidden if this discussion continues.

[Andie1]

For ice dance fans Virtue and Moir laid down a fantastic Latin - I loved the music Sympathy for the Devil Samba,  which totally should be a Samba on DWTS, a beautiful acoustic Rumba to Hotel California  (Lindsay used this for an AT with Calvin in season 23) and a spectular ending to Santana solo guitar to Oye como va, cha cha rhythm just a great Classic collection of song  and I think it’s Charlie White on the expert commentary, very detailed which I appreciate

Edited October 28, 2017 by Andie1

[lavenderblue]

There's a blog post from the person behind the skating website Two for the Ice that touches on some of the explicit Latin ballroom choreography references Virtue/Moir make in that program!: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Syllabus

I think the commentator above is Ben Agosto who's doing some work for the network, too -- for any non-ice dance fans, he skated (to considerable success) with Tanith Belbin, AKA Charlie's now-wife. US ice dance is a small world.

Edited October 28, 2017 by lavenderblue

[MsJamieDornan]

2 hours ago, lavenderblue said:

I think the commentator above is Ben Agosto who's doing some work for the network

You're correct.

[boyznkatz]

Tessa should be a contestant on dwts. Her dancing would be lovely!