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S04.E07: Brotherhood


FormerMod-a1
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The weird transitions have been a thing this season (and part of last season, too). Like last week's ep when they focused on a crushed-up energy drink can and transitioned to a similarly-shaped flame. Or focused on the leaf on the whiskey bottle in the lair and transitioned to a leaf on the island. You don't always need to do the most, show!

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I find the "scrambled DNA via chemicals" explanation more insulting than the shoddy forensics on the arrows last season. They don't even need to know anything about genetics; it's basic biology. You can't just "scramble" a living person's DNA. Even a change in just one nucleotide means those guys would at least be walking around riddled with tumors. Anything more than that and they wouldn't be walking around at all. 

 

They should've just gone with "it's magic!" to explain the Ghosts instead of tying it up with the pills. We've already seen the Lazarus Pits at work, so why bother with a pseudo-scientific reason for a brainwashed army?

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Maybe they've never heard of the studies working on curing diseases by recombinent DNA?

 

And if it is more to do with the magic, does the magic 'stop' when DD is finally defeated/killed? 

 

They wouldn't need the stuff from Wolfman (eyeroll) Industries is it was magic.

 

It's a dilemma -- would it be better to have the DNA scrambled because of science? Or magic?  One is completely impossible and, no wait, both are impossible.

 

On the whole, I think I'd rather have it be magic than bad science.

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Sorry if I missed this somewhere...but can anyone reconcile Deadshot's "confession" to Diggle with the possibility that Andy is alive.

 

  • Deadshot is part of a conspiracy that faked Andy's murder and was yanking John's chain.
  • Deadshot sincerely believes that he killed Andy, but Darhk sent in a body double
  • Deadshot killed the real Andy and has no knowledge of a subsequent revival
  • Whatever Deadshot said doesn't matter because Will Smith wants it that way
Edited by paigow
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Dear Felicity,

 

You are an asshole. Stop cracking jokes about formerly dead people that matter to your friends and that matter a helluva lot more to me than your trifling ass. Also, SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP about Huntress, she's ten times the woman you are. 

 

P.S The fuchsia lipstick was on fleek in the first two seasons and damn nearly changed my perspective on neon but now it's just as tired as the 80's revival. Get some NYX, Melt Cosmetics or MAC or get bent! On second thought, get bent anyways because Oliver's dick seems to be having the same horrible effect on you that it had on Laurel. You're TERRIBLE.

 

With regret,

slayer2

 

P.P.S Diggle, you are also an asshole, your brother is alive in whatever format, get your shit together and help him out. You're his big bro, it's kind of in the job description. Hater.

 

Dear Thea, Laurel, Oliver and Ray,

 

You continue to be awesome, don't let a few assholes get you down. Carry on.

 

your fan,

slayer2

 

Dear Damien Darkh

 

You're terrifying, Carry on!

 

hopefully not yours ever,

slayer2

 

Dear Andy,

 

Bruh.....

 

*smdh,

slayer2

 

Dear Mr. Terrific,

 

I missed you this week.

 

your pal in good cheer,

slayer2

 

Dear Baby Sara and Lyla,

 

Wish I could see more of you.

 

tearfully,

slayer2

 

And finally, a letter to the worst of the worst.

 

Dear Flashbacks,

 

I don't even watch you anymore. You are legit the ONLY thing on the show that I fastforward through in its entirety without missing a beat of the plot. Can't you Bermuda Triangle yourself so we can get out of the B-plot and finally hang out with the important people? I get the sense that the majority of Arrow viewers are Type-A people anyway, and time really isn't something people have to spare nowadays.

 

with bribes, begging and the offer of spirits (or murder),

overly exhausted slayer2

Edited by slayer2
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Dear Felicity,

 

You are an asshole. Stop cracking jokes about formerly dead people that matter to your friends and that matter a helluva lot more to me than your trifling ass. Also, SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP about Huntress, she's ten times the woman you are. 

 

P.S The fuchsia lipstick was on fleek in the first two seasons and damn nearly changed my perspective on neon but now it's just as tired as the 80's revival. Get some NYX, Melt Cosmetics or MAC or get bent! On second thought, get bent anyways because Oliver's dick seems to be having the same horrible effect on you that it had on Laurel. You're TERRIBLE.

 

With regret,

slayer2

 

P.P.S Diggle, you are also an asshole, your brother is alive in whatever format, get your shit together and help him out. You're his big bro, it's kind of in the job description. Hater.

 

 

Huh? Felicity didn't make a joke about dead people. She just said that dead people aren't staying dead anymore which is, you know, true. 

 

And since when is lipstick the fault of the character? That's on the make-up artist.

 

Also, I like the Huntress, maybe not as much as you, but I definitely wouldn't say a murderer was better than someone who has probably never even hit someone in their life.

 

And I'm not sure why Diggle is an asshole. He's just found out his brother is alive after years and is probably in complete shock. Everything he knew about him was a lie. I'd cut him some slack.

Edited by Guest
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Guggie answered a Tumblr ask about that, and he had no idea that canonically Oliver speaks Mandarin perfectly.  He completely forgot and didn't even remember when the questioner reminded him of that episode/scene.

Now see THAT makes perfect sense. 

 

But I have to say, IF I was a show runner and had that pointed out to me, I would feel like shit for a week.  I don't know how people can not care about this stuff.  I can barely accept all the retcons they do on sitcoms like Big Bang Theory.  Shows like Arrow are supposed to care about continuity damn it.

 

Sorry if I missed this somewhere...but can anyone reconcile Deadshot's "confession" to Diggle with the possibility that Andy is alive.

 

  • Deadshot is part of a conspiracy that faked Andy's murder and was yanking John's chain.
  • Deadshot sincerely believes that he killed Andy, but Darhk sent in a body double
  • Deadshot killed the real Andy and has no knowledge of a subsequent revival
  • Whatever Deadshot said doesn't matter because Will Smith wants it that way

 

 

This actually was bugging me when we were first discussing if the "ghost" that didn't kill Diggle was Andy.  Because Deadshot never misses and if Deadshot thought he killed Andy, Andy should be dead.  That's why I first liked the idea of these guys being reanimated in some fashion, but I'm still not sure I can make that work either.

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Also, I'm rewatching even though I said I wouldn't, and Diggle mentioning that Andy faked his death 8 years ago is irritating me, when the dude was alive and working a Merlyn party with him 5 years ago in Starling. C'mon, show!

Any significance to 8 years ago, other than a screw up? That wouldn't line up with the Flashbacks right? I dread the idea of Andy showing up on Liane Yu
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P.S The fuchsia lipstick was on fleek in the first two seasons and damn nearly changed my perspective on neon but now it's just as tired as the 80's revival. Get some NYX, Melt Cosmetics or MAC or get bent! 

 

These are fail recs, btw. Every single one of these lines includes neons (and fuchsias). 

Edited by apinknightmare
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*is wearing MAC's Flat Out Fabulous lipstick with its INTERGALLACTIC neon undertone*

*feels awkward*

 

lmao I'm wearing NARs neonish lipstick right now too (Funny Face is the name of the color)... 

 

*feels awkward with you*

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Here I was going to post a lame joke about DD watching a double feature of Brave and The Black Cauldron and I find we've moved on to lipstick shades already. I'm too slow for you young whippersnappers…

 

There were moments here and there that I liked, but overall I cannot fathom what all the praise from the reviewers was for. 

  • Love 6
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Huh? Felicity didn't make a joke about dead people. She just said that dead people aren't staying dead anymore which is, you know, true.

And since when is lipstick the fault of the character? That's on the make-up artist.

Also, I like the Huntress, maybe not as much as you, but I definitely wouldn't say a murderer was better than someone who has probably never even hit someone in their life.

And I'm not sure why Diggle is an asshole. He's just found out his brother is alive after years and is probably in complete shock. Everything he knew about him was a lie. I'd cut him some slack.

I'm not you, and I've made it pretty clear why I think Diggle is an asshole on many occasions including this one.

With respect to lisptick of course the character chose her own lipstick. I'm talking about the character Felicity, not EBR or backstage or behind the scenes shenanigans.

Everyone's a murderer on this show. It doesn't give Felicity more value because she hasn't killed anyone yet and Felicity has hit plenty of people, just last week she was firing of a machine gun at someone because she's so "badass" apparently.

It seems to me quite often that some folks who like Felicity are happy to excuse her of anything and everything, if it wasn't a joke Diggle wouldn't have had to excuse her for it. It's rare to see (in fact I reckon I haven't ever seen) 'round these parts one word against Felicity for anything other than her choice in quilts.

It is my opinion as a longtime viewer that she has become a complete asshole, narcissistic and self-centered to the point of self-congratulatory blather and this episode where she takes (yet another) shot at one of Oliver's exes, only highlights it.

Who is she to judge Huntress? Did she grow up in a depraved crime family with a father who had no moral centre being the only one to guide her, don't think so, she grew up with an off-centre Mom who did her very best and is still looked down on by Felicity at every turn so she can keep her judgy asshole comments about Huntress to herself.

Edited by slayer2
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Everyone's a murderer on this show. It doesn't give Felicity more value because she hasn't killed anyone yet.

 

So...not everyone? 

 

Pointing out the obvious isn't exactly a joke, although it seems like she did realize it was insensitive, which would be why she apologized. 

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These are fail recs, btw. Every single one of these lines includes neons (and fuchsias).

This season MAC and other makeup companies are featuring berry and darker tones for fall and winter.

So...not everyone?

Pointing out the obvious isn't exactly a joke, although it seems like she did realize it was insensitive, which would be why she apologized.

Everyone but perfect Felicity....

Semantics, she said it in the same way she makes jokes then apologized much like when she puts her foot in her mouth.

You and I will always disagree on Felicity because you have in every instance I've come across, defended Felicity's every move and statement. Thus we will always agree to disagree.

Edited by slayer2
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LOL I think Oliver generally considers "dating" Huntress one of his many mistakes and it wasn't just because she was a killer.  Sara did her fair share of killing, but Felicity loved her - as did we all. This version of Huntress is supposed to be a little nuts - doesn't mean I don't want her back though. :)

 

But um yea, I guess I'm a Felicity fan because generally speaking, I've always understood her and loved her.  I have NOT always been an olicity fan, but I do like them together now.  Felicity isn't perfect and she can be bitchy sometimes - but I relate to that as well. :)  Still I will give a lot to characters who make sense and Felicity almost always makes sense.

 

Of course, other than the occasional OOC line from Diggle - I don't see how he's an asshole either so YMMV and all that.

 

Oh and I know I'm about to cross into "semantics ville" but I personally would not call everyone on this show a murderer.....   To date....

 

- We've established that Felicity hasn't killed anyone

- To the best of our knowledge Curtis is clean on that front as well...

- Can't recall Tommy ever killing anyone...

- I am 99% sure that Ray never killed anyone since Roy turned out ok and all...

 

So aside from those four - we get into those who have killed, but it was either justifiable or against their will...

 

- Roy killed on guy when he was not in his right mind and still feels guilty about it - I would never, ever call him a killer or murderer.

- Thea, at present, I exonerate Thea from any killing she has done.  She was brain raped into killing Sara and technically killed the two guy in NP in self-defense (though Malcolm did send them to the slaughter).  But to me, her hands are still clean.

- Laurel - the best of my recollection, she only killed once - in self-defense.

- Diggle - from all that we know of him, he seems to have only killed "in the line of duty" - ie, war.  Since they keep saying, Team Arrow isn't killing anyone - I am going to assume he hasn't offed anyone in his vigilante duties.  So to me, he is still on the side of the angels.

 

Now we get to people who could actually be called "killers"....

 

Sara - sure she was just trying to survive, but girl was definitely in the LoA and had to kill some people.  I'm sure she hopes they were all bad guys.

Oliver - we've seen Oliver kill for justifiable reasons and just for straight up revenge (the drug killer in season three flashbacks).  Still the show seems to keep him free of killing innocents as much as possible.

Huntress - she killed for revenge and pleasure.  Sure, she was mostly killing bad people, but that doesn't mean she was a "good" guy.  However, the line between her and season one Oliver was pretty slim.

Merlyn - dude is straight up evil so calling him a killer is probably a compliment.

Edited by nksarmi
  • Love 11
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It seems to me quite often that some folks who like Felicity are happy to excuse her of anything and everything, if it wasn't a joke Diggle wouldn't have had to excuse her for it. It's rare to see (in fact I reckon I haven't ever seen) 'round these parts one word against Felicity for anything other than her choice in quilts.

It is my opinion as a longtime viewer that she has become a complete asshole, narcissistic and self-centered to the point of self-congratulatory blather and this episode where she takes (yet another) shot at one of Oliver's exes, only highlights it.

Who is she to judge Huntress? Did she grow up in a depraved crime family with a father who had no moral centre being the only one to guide her, don't think so, she grew up with an off-centre Mom who did her very best and is still looked down on by Felicity at every turn so she can keep her judgy asshole comments about Huntress to herself.

 

I'm not gonna argue with you over lipstick. But that seemed like a petty dig for petty's sake, IMO. It's lipstick. Who cares?

 

And I'm a big Felicity fan, clearly, but I see her flaws and problems. Just last episode I was complaining about her character and things I didn't like. Lots of Felicity fans were doing the same thing. No excuses here. But you're welcome to think that if it suits you.

 

Oh, and as for the Huntress. Maybe Felicity didn't take kindly to being tied up and forced to do something against her will back in s1. That had to stick. Personally I wouldn't really think too fondly of someone who did that to me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Each to their own and all that.

Edited by Guest
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Ok, now we've moved off of character hate (which is ok within a fairly wide but not unlimited range of hatey--even Felicity hate) to jibber jabber about how other people feel about the character.    The lipstick stuff is also off topic but almost a welcome distraction from the bickering.   Please de-escalate and ignore opinions you don't like.  

 

And now...puppy!

 

f4f5c-cute-bulldog.jpg

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Ok, now we've moved off of character hate (which is ok within a fairly wide but not unlimited range of hatey--even Felicity hate) to jibber jabber about how other people feel about the character.    The lipstick stuff is also off topic but almost a welcome distraction from the bickering.   Please de-escalate and ignore opinions you don't like.  

 

And now...puppy!

 

f4f5c-cute-bulldog.jpg

 

OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD IT'S SO CUTE. 

 

Best way to end heated arguments tbh.

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Huntress - she killed for revenge and pleasure.  Sure, she was mostly killing bad people, but that doesn't mean she was a "good" guy.  However, the line between her and season one Oliver was pretty slim.

The Huntress killed like ten federal marshals at her dad's safe house.  Oliver has never, in flashbacks or present-day, to my memory, killed a single good guy.  He did arrow a couple at least neutral guys, though.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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The Huntress killed like ten federal marshals at her dad's safe house.  Oliver has never, in flashbacks or present-day, to my memory, killed a single good guy.  He did arrow a couple at least neutral guys, though.

Oh see I forgot about that.  I was just thinking of her killing mafia guys.

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Lmfao Lord Almighty not we can't even like Felicity because apparently she "can do no wrong." Yet last week some of her own fans were calling her behavior bitchy.

Sorry but just because we like Felicity doesn't mean we have to stay quiet about what doesn't work on the show.

I am starting to like Thea again because she wasn't around Laurel the entire episode. People can like Laurel all they want. All I see from her though is that judgment look and line plus standing closed off with her arms over her chest all the bloody time.

Edited by EmilyBettFan
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I'm not sure she did figure it so much as she got lucky.

 

If Curtis has developed technology that lets you see who the person is even though they're wearing a mask, wouldn't that get PT out of the red?  Every police and military agency would pay a lot to get their hands on that.

 

 

Also, I'm rewatching even though I said I wouldn't, and Diggle mentioning that Andy faked his death 8 years ago is irritating me, when the dude was alive and working a Merlyn party with him 5 years ago in Starling. C'mon, show!

I respect David Ramsey and I think he's a good actor but come on, guy, he should have caught that.  It would have been an easy fix to say "6 years ago".

 

Who is she to judge Huntress? Did she grow up in a depraved crime family with a father who had no moral centre being the only one to guide her, don't think so, she grew up with an off-centre Mom who did her very best and is still looked down on by Felicity at every turn so she can keep her judgy asshole comments about Huntress to herself.

Svetlana Stalin, who grew up with one of the most corrupt and viciously brutal fathers in modern history (millions starved to death, thousands tortured) and a mother who was pushed to suicide when she was just a girl, turned out to be a good person.

 

Diggle, who we presume grew up in a normal family, possibly more normal than Felicity, was the first to push that Helena was not quite sane.  And the show has told us repeatedly that she wasn't. Felicity's statement wasn't so much judgement as fact.  Judgement would have been to put her down because she was crazy; all Felicity said was that she was one of Oliver's bad decisions.  Thinking that he could save himself by saving her was.

Edited by statsgirl
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(* Incidentally, I wonder if the placement of Felicity between Laurel and Oliver had any hidden meaning.)

 

Noticed that myself but there wasn't anything in the narrative that supported highlighting a triangle, nothing that had Oliver or Felicity or Laurel at odds.  Nothing that recalled anything about the past or hinted at anything about the future.  Believe me, I looked.  I think it really was just a need to have certain people on certain sides of the shot and Felicity has a line in another part of the Lair so she had to walk into the shot and it was simplest to have Oliver and Laurel seated. 

 

Yes, I spent too much time analyzing the shot. 

If Curtis has developed technology that lets you see who the person is even though they're wearing a mask, wouldn't that get PT out of the red?  Every police and military agency would pay a lot to get their hands on that.

 

Maybe Curtis only came up with the handy individual button cams since didn't Felicity basically write that program last year (which Ray borrowed and used on his suit to see through Oliver's Mask?) 

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I remember in the comic books, there was always a masterful, regal expression on Black Canary's face when she unleashes the Canary Cry.

 

Laurel looks like she's about to hork up a cat.    It's not a good look and I wish they'd stop it.

Edited by millennium
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