S02.E07: 207

[Armchair Critic]

Somebody mentioned they have never seen anyone use the "Our Father" as a prayer before a meal. I grew up in a Christian family and we used to use that prayer (we called it The Lord's Prayer) often before meal time.

[Bebecat]

With any show, people feeling strongly about characters, either loving or hating them, is what makes a show good. And we can't help basing our feelings on our own experiences. I.e. If someone has had a cheating spouse, they may hate Noah even more. I don't think people need to be so sensitive here, or allow others to ruin their enjoyment. If opinions were not strong. It would be because the show is just so-so, and not affecting viewers much.

[Armchair Critic]

Sorry about the mini rant but I get heated up about Thanksgiving feasts

 

I went to my ex's brother's house for Thanksgiving one year and they didn't have stuffing because his wife doesn't like it. WTF? That is blasphemy! No wonder I'm divorced. ;) HA!

[AmandaPanda]

I felt terrible for Alison during the first half of the episode. I really wish she had been able to stay at the retreat and grow as a person away from both Noah and Cole. Just as she started to drift away from Cole last season, I feel like she's drifting away from Noah now. She strikes me as someone who doesn't know how to define herself when she isn't in a relationship. I really get no sense of who Alison is as a person, other than in her relationship to other people. I mainly just pity her.

 

I'm so glad that we're getting Cole's point of view this season because I find him fascinating. He can often be an asshole, but he's so damaged that it makes him really intriguing to watch. Whereas Noah is just an asshole, but doesn't really have a reason to be. I'm okay with watching shows about assholes, but if they're going to be a protagonist, I need them to have at least one redeeming quality. 19 episodes into the series and I'm still trying to find Noah's good point. I don't need multiple points. I'll settle for just one reason why I should even care about him. 

[RedInk]

This season for me is so much better, now I can't wait to see what happens next.

I totally agree! I didn't think I'd tune in this season because it was a chore for me to watch the same scene replayed. It's so much more enjoyable (to me, at least) now that they've switched up the formula and added Cole & Helen to the mix.

So I made it through the last few pages, of this thread...and what on earth happened here? I understand someone wanting to leave the conversation if he or she feels alienated or ridiculed, but everyone has been so polite. Maybe this is the effect of the show being a character study? When you relate to one of them, the criticism feels personal? I can appreciate that, even if it doesn't resonate with me. I also don't view this forum as an echo chamber; I don't really see many truly unpopular opinions. Variety makes the board interesting! We all hate Scotty and Oscar (right? Any lurking Oscar lovers?) and they barely warrant conversation. So I'll throw an unpopular opinion of mine out there: I like Max! I said it! And I bet I'm a lone voice in the wilderness there ;)

Edited November 22, 2015 by RedInk

[Irlandesa]

I totally agree! I didn't think I'd tune in this season because it was a chore for me to watch the same scene replayed. It's so much more enjoyable (to me, at least) now that they've switched up the formula and added Cole & Helen to the mix.

 

This!  The show was aggravating and something I watched to the end because I tend to be a completist once I commit to a season of TV.  But this season, it has been a lot easier to watch.  I think the way they show different perspectives on a situation without rehashing the same scenes over and over is easier to watch. 

 

So I made it through the last few pages, of this thread...and what on earth happened here? I understand someone wanting to leave the conversation if he or she feels alienated or ridiculed, but everyone has been so polite. Maybe this is the effect of the show being a character study? When you relate to one of them, the criticism feels personal?

Oh I think everyone can be polite and it still can be exhausting to have pretty much no one share your POV.  As much as disagreement can spark discussion, agreement can also send a discussion in interesting directions. 

[chocolatine]

Does Helen even know that Alison lost a child?

 

When we had Alison's POV at the cocktail party where she was waitressing last season, Margaret said to her "aren't you the girl who lost her baby?", and IIRC Helen heard it and made a sympathetic face. I could be wrong about the second part, though I do distinctly remember Margaret saying it.

[cardigirl]

When we had Alison's POV at the cocktail party where she was waitressing last season, Margaret said to her "aren't you the girl who lost her baby?", and IIRC Helen heard it and made a sympathetic face. I could be wrong about the second part, though I do distinctly remember Margaret saying it.

Margaret did say that to Alison, so she is aware of who Alison is and may have told Helen, but we have never been shown that. I actually loved that scene because Margaret was shown to be somewhat sympathetic and she and Alison connected a little. That encounter happened in Alison's point of view, too.

[Milburn Stone]

I'm okay with watching shows about assholes, but if they're going to be a protagonist, I need them to have at least one redeeming quality. 19 episodes into the series and I'm still trying to find Noah's good point. I don't need multiple points. I'll settle for just one reason why I should even care about him. 

 

It's an interesting question and I set myself to the task of coming up with an answer. I came up with one. (There may be others.) Namely, Noah is a good writer! (I'm not talking about our opinion of his prose, I'm going from what the show is showing me concerning the world's opinion of his prose. Writers like Franzen and Roth think he's hot stuff, and so does Yvonne, who has taste, and so does Michiko Kakutani, if memory serves.) OK, now before you counter that "being a good writer" isn't a human quality, and before I kind of agree with you, maybe it is. Good novelists (and playwrights and scenarists) help the world by making us feel we're not alone; by striking a chord with their audience; by exploring what it is to be human. They help their audience make sense of this crazy thing called life. Noah, apparently--from the evidence of the show--has the talent to do that! So that's one reason to care about him.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Milburn Stone

[Rockfish]

Alison's huge stomach was really bothering me, even after I factored in that women tend to show earlier after first pregnancies. It made me start rethinking the timeline and wonder if this was done to create more doubt about Noah being the biological dad, that she's farther along than she's claiming. But then it hit me that Alison feels so huge--this was her POV, afterall--because her becoming a mother again is huge. After suffering through one of the most heartbreaking tragedies anyone can experience, she's willing to risk being a mother again and all that entails: the joy, of course, but also the possibility that something horrible will happen. That she's willing to make this gamble again is huge, hence huge belly.

Of course, I may be completely wrong. It will be interesting to see her size in someone else's POV.

[alisonsadface]

I created an account just to say i love oscar. Hes a douchebag for sure but when he had his one night stand with alison he was so nice to her the next morning, even offering her his truck when she was in a panic to leave. He just seemed so human in that moment. I also enjoy his shenanigans in general. Im not articulating it well but i do enjoy his character. Last season i was drawn in to the show due to the different perspectives. This season is off the chains good with the new perspectives. I hsve to join the noah hate train. I cant get past his unattractiveness and his character is so selfish. Ugh. last season i was very drawn to alisons character because she was so dark and tortured. I admit its getting old now. She seems to have two moods...victimized and depressed. Ive seen some strength in other perspectives of her but her pov is always that everyone is picking on her. Its really getting old. Does the whole world really have it out for her?

[right]

I created an account just to say i love oscar. Hes a douchebag for sure but when he had his one night stand with alison he was so nice to her the next morning, even offering her his truck when she was in a panic to leave. He just seemed so human in that moment. I also enjoy his shenanigans in general. Im not articulating it well but i do enjoy his character. Last season i was drawn in to the show due to the different perspectives. This season is off the chains good with the new perspectives. I hsve to join the noah hate train. I cant get past his unattractiveness and his character is so selfish. Ugh. last season i was very drawn to alisons character because she was so dark and tortured. I admit its getting old now. She seems to have two moods...victimized and depressed. Ive seen some strength in other perspectives of her but her pov is always that everyone is picking on her. Its really getting old. Does the whole world really have it out for her?

 

Can't say that I "love" Oscar, but at times he does amuse me and I thought the POV's given of him were mainly negative because of who's memories they were from.  However, my fondness of him was diminished some with the reveal that he made Helen pay 100,000 for his information regarding Scotty's death.  That is pretty scummy behavior.

 

I can say that I love your user name Alisonsadface and agree with your take on Allison's personality or should I say lack of personality.  She really needs to snap out of her funk and start acting more like she did at the retreat.  I've seen absolutely no chemistry between her and Noah.  They seem to be completely wrong for each other.  I really want to see how this show plays out.

[SlackerInc]

Moved post to the new Noah thread.

Edited November 23, 2015 by SlackerInc

[LydiaE]

Things I like about Noah:

He fiercely loves his children.

He has progressive ideals and fights for them in the face of his in-laws' scorn.

He took care of his mother as a teenager instead of going out and meeting girls and having fun.

He appeared to be a compassionate, engaged, and engaging teacher in a diverse urban public school.

When Alison tried to push him away, saying that she was basically too damaged and that he would be better off not getting involved, he insisted on being there for her. That continued when she was having a tough time with her mother. And then again in the aftermath of the Cole gun incident.

He is philosophical and thoughtful about life. This obviously dovetails with what Millburn Stone was talking about.

Rather than just go on with a comfortable marriage and a kept second woman as his best friend advised him, he decided to go out on a limb and leave Helen for the woman he really loves.

Noah has few, if any, redeeming qualities.

*He doesn't fiercely love his children. He treated his youngest son cruelly when he wanted to spend time with him in order to see his mistress. He chose to pursue sexual desires (not just with Allison) to the detriment of the childrens' domestic security. He hurt and humiliated their mother. His pride keeps them from having close relationships with their extended family ( his dad and sister).

*He seems to form his ideals to suit his own desires, not through conviction. Plus, he lived comfortably on the in-law's dime.

*He seems to resent the fact that his mother was ill when he mentioned he slept his way through high school rather than bring friends home or socialize outside the home. Pride.

*He liked to teach, but he also liked having sexual encounters at his workplace.

*He likes damaged Allison because he fancies himself a Knight in Shining Armour.

*He is self absorbed, a selfish lover, and is perpetually unhappy or dissatisfied. Rarely does he smile or crack a joke or do anything fun.

*He couldn't have really loved a woman he barely knew. He left for sexual kicks, with and without Allison.

[AmandaPanda]

See the latest post in the Note from the Mod thread about new character topics. 

[DiabLOL]

Personally, I find it quite disturbing and hateful that someone who works a respectable, well-paying, full-time job with benefits including paid vacation and health insurance, etc, and then even spends their time off trying to startup a second career could ever be called a "moocher." That sounds like it comes from Mitt Romney, who claimed that 45% of Americans were 'moochers," (i.e. low-wage workers, the retired and disabled, children, etc; anyone who isn't wealthy.) And I'm sure Helen's mother donated big bucks to his political campaign when he said that. But yes, men who are stay at home parents or who are supported by their wives, or just make less money are the target of a huge amount of shame and "emasculation" in our society.

[cleo]

So I don't really care if Noah killed Scotty or not, I just want him to go to jail for being a douche. His half made me want to quit the show, but Cole's drew me back in.

Used to be sympathetic to Allison, but girl he has always treated you like shit. It's like watching one of those women married to a guy that beats her and she never leaves. Not pleasant to watch. And he will totally throw her under the bus re the murder.

I really liked Max going to dinner, after fucking his best friend's wife, and then being ticked about the woman with the phone at dinner. Like yeah I nailed his wife but jeez, manners!