Hear them sing! Songs and voices on Glee

[caracas1914]

Can't it just be that she is to the point she knows she screwed up but she is just going  to push forward anyway?

 

It fits the Rachel we first saw who had people on her but she didn't really let them see her sweat.

 

So even if it was her own doing at some point  she has to let go of the old baggage to get to the next step.

 

She's at a  low point,agreed. 

 

Just annoying to me that the spoilers already present her as "saving" New Directions.   The old Rachel always saw herself that way, and spolilers also indicates that she battles Kurt as to whether he's a co-director or just her assistandt,  so I don't see how thinking that same way with this new group of kids is presenting her as letting go of her old baggage.

 

It's the same Rachel who has to be top dog.

 

ETA: fuck, it's painful to hear Darren on "Suddenly Seymour".  He just does not  have a Broadway showtune voice...

Edited December 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[CoyoteBlue]

Also, the last thing Rachel needs to do is let go of lessons learned from actual consequences of her actions. She does that all the time. She should sing a song about learning not to do that shit again.

[camussie]

I just posted the same thing in the spoilers thread.  Looking at herself as the savior of ND seems to me like she is simply transferring her diva-ness back to Lima where she can be a big fish in a small pond versus learning that, while she is talented, that doesn't immediately confer respect.  That have to be earned through hard work and learning to be a part of a team.

 

Also, the last thing Rachel needs to do is let go of lessons learned from actual consequences of her actions. She does that all the time. She should sing a song about learning not to do that shit again.

 

 

This too.  It would be one thing if she was still beating herself up about it months and months later but if the song is to be taken as Rachel is letting go of her baggage then it seems like after a week she is like eh my out of control ego blew up my career but onward because I am someone who can be the savior of the glee club.  

Edited December 22, 2014 by camussie

[tom87]

I see a no win for her either way.

 

She can sells a kidney, takes a vow of silence and gives away all her worldly possession it won't matter what she does to some folks.

 

No one said for her to let go of her lessons or not learn from her mistakes,  but she can't let what happen drown her either.

 

:)

[caracas1914]

To me it's just frustrating because I want Rachel struggling for Rachel, not some rehashed "Let's save the Glee club" which Will  already did for the first 5 seasons.   Having Rachel back in that fucking choir room to prop up new kids is so depressing.

Edited December 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

She can sells a kidney, takes a vow of silence and gives away all her worldly possession it won't matter what she does to some folks.

 

 

Maybe for some but most on here just want to see her actually learn something.  Not go from a diva on Broadway and in Hollywood to one in Lima where it is more sustainable because she will be a big fish in a small pond. 

 

Also the opposite of what you posted applies. For some folks it doesn't matter how much of a self involved diva Rachel is the Glee club should be grateful a failed actress is gracing them with her talent.  

 

Still there is a middle ground to approaching this that would actually make her story more compelling.  Rachel is confident in her talents (as she should be) but also takes on reviving the glee club, not because she sees herself as its savior, but rather because she remembers the joy of performing she got from it and she wants those kids to experience the same thing and also because she hopes it will help her get back to her performance roots - where it was the work that mattered

 

Having Rachel back in that fucking choir room to prop up new kids is so depressing.

 

 

From all of the spoilers we have I don't think she will be.  They seem to be non-entities for the most part.  If anything they will be a prop in her story, which is how it should be, but her story shouldn't be focused on Rachel seeing herself as some sort of savior but rather on Rachel getting back to her roots so she can steel herself for another run at Broadway.

 

Unfortunately the way they seem to be using "Let it Go" Rachel feels bad about herself for a grand total of one episode and then is like eh time to let it go because ND needs me to save them.

Edited December 22, 2014 by camussie

[Myrna123]

She can sells a kidney, takes a vow of silence and gives away all her worldly possession it won't matter what she does to some folks.

True--but she could also steal a kidney, take a vow to never shut up and horde all the earth's vital resources for her own bad self and some viewers will still say she's getting a raw deal.

[Hana Chan]

The problem is that Rachel never seems to make a connection between her behavior and the consequences. I'm not looking for her to crawl over broken glass, but show some real awareness that she's in this mess because of her own choices and her inability to listen to the advice of others if it didn't match what she already decided on. Give me something to show that she's made an iota of growth since season one. The last thing she deserves at this point is to be pitied because she fucked her career.

 

And she's going to have to sort out her real reasons for wanting to coach ND. Is it because she thinks it's important for these kids to have the experience and she has some real knowledge that she can impart, or is it because it gives her something to feel better about her own lot in life. I'd love someone to pose the question to her if she's there because she really feels seriously about ND, or because she's realistically got no other options at this point. Call a spade a spade, but she's not there out of any real selfless reasons.

 

Using this particular song to tell Rachel's story is problematic because it doesn't show her doing any real introspection about how she ended up here. I have a feeling that we're going to be in for an episode of Rachel moping because her career is fucked, commiserating with Blaine because his life is fucked, and then having everyone and their grandmother emotionally propping Rachel up because she's so. fucking. special. It's a shame that they didn't try to reimagine Let It Go to maybe give it the twist that would make it fit into Rachel's storyline better. But it's such a slavish copy of the original (and is a serviceable vocal performance by Lea) that if gives the impression that Rachel is just going to shrug off the bad experience and failures without really trying to learn anything from them.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Hana Chan

[caracas1914]

I wish they would get back to self involved Rachel who loves the spotlight and loves performing.   Ok, in that sense "Let it Go" could work I suppose, but my disdain for for how over used that song is already is getting to me as far wanting it  as a song choice for Rachel. 

 

It just harbingers that this last season song wise is just more of the same.

Edited December 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

And she's going to have to sort out her real reasons for wanting to coach ND. Is it because she thinks it's important for these kids to have the experience and she has some real knowledge that she can impart, or is it because it gives her something to feel better about her own lot in life

 

Why  can't it be both?

[caracas1914]

Why  can't it be both?

 

I agree it can be both.   Just wish it was played for black comedy, as in Rachel shoving all the new kids out of the way as she demonstrates how to sing a number...LOL

[camussie]

I wish they would get back to self involved Rachel who loves the spotlight and loves performing.   Ok, in that sense "Let it Go" could work I suppose, but my disdain for for how over used that song is already is getting to me as far wanting it  as a song choice for Rachel.

 

 

I want her to go back to someone who thrives on performing and who enjoys the spotlight but I also think that, given how her hubris blew up her career, she should be at a point where she realizes that she can still be ambitious while still being invested in other people's success and a production as a whole i.e. realizing it isn't always about her.

 

Why  can't it be both?

 

 

It can be but so far it doesn't look like it is.  The sneak peek today had Lea saying Rachel is back in Ohio because these kids need her.  She is fighting with Kurt over whether he is her assistant.  

Edited December 22, 2014 by camussie

[tom87]

 

I want her to go back to someone who thrives on performing and who enjoys the spotlight but I also think that, given how her hubris blew up her career, she should be at a point where she realizes that she can still be ambitious while still being invested in other people's success and a production as a whole i.e. realizing it isn't always about her.

 

 

It can be but so far it doesn't look like it is.  The sneak peek today had Lea saying Rachel is back in Ohio because these kids need her.  She is fighting with Kurt over whether he is her assistant.  

Well don't they need her or someone to start the club back up so they have a creative and musical outlet???

 

And we will have to see about the Kurt stuff. Gasp what it Kurt was the one in the wrong on this issue?  Oh my now that would be a twist.   Hahahaha  like that would ever happen.

 

Its the first episode she has a plan to help get the club on its feet  and while doing so she will help these kids and probably regain  her dreams with a new outlook on herself.

 

She has to be doing something for 12 episode before she decide on her future.

 

The first sneak peek isn't  going to outline  her whole storyline.

[camussie]

They do but that isn't the reason she is back in Ohio.  She is back in Ohio because her hubris blew up her career. Her singing "Let it Go" like there is some sort of outside force beating her down that she needs to break free of does not bode well for the tone of this story.  Rachel being humbled because of her mistakes should last more than half an episode.  It should be a re-building process versus her being humbled and singing "Let it go" in 601, acting like she is god's gift to the glee club with many a person underscoring that in episodes 602-612, and then her deciding she is Broadway bound again in 613 (hopefully).    

 

As for Kurt, I am on record for not liking how he is always written as having the moral high ground.  That said I think Rachel assuming he is her assistant is the wrong direction for the writers to take given how Rachel recently blew up her career.  

Edited December 22, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

From spoilers Rachel asked Kurt for help in saving New Directions. He takes a leave from NYADA and after all that she expects him to be her assistant? WTF, seriously?

Fuck , I expect him to go Lima Heights on her hubris on that one.

[Craphole Island]

Remember when the musical directors really took risks and challenged the actors and the audience with unorthodox renditions of well known songs, or having them performed by unexpected singers? We got things like  I Want To Hold Your Hand, I Feel Pretty/Unpretty,... things that didn't sound exactly like the original versions and were able to stand on their own as interpretations of the song. Now we just get predictable performances by the expected parties that don't deviate a single note from the original. Pretty indicative of everything that's been going wrong with Glee the past few seasons.

Wasn't "I Want to Hold Your Hand" just the "Across the Universe" version also? Love Kurt's version, but pretty sure it's just the same as from the movie. Could be wrong though.

 

I Feel Pretty/Unpretty is top 5 Glee songs for me, definitely.

[caracas1914]

Granted The arrangement of Glee's " I want to hold your hand" is pretty much the version from the " Across the universe" movie, however it was still ( to the GA) a relatively fresh and different take on the song. Plus unlike the movie, the song was used, not in the usual context to express romantic love, but as the love between a father and son. So the arrangement, how the song was used in the context of the storyline was indeed a fresh take.

I dare say most of Glee's " original" arrangements have beginnings in some relative obscure arrangement made by another artist.

[jaytee1812]

I Feel Pretty/Unpretty is top 5 Glee songs for me, definitely.

I like it, the sing it well but it completely misses the point of both songs.

I had a playlist on the other day and it struck me how many of the songs are tone deaf in who sings them. I Feel Pretty/Unpretty was among them.

A bunch of scrubs singing No Scrubs without any irony.

I Kissed a Girl for a lesbian coming out.

A bunch of mostly white men singing Free Your Mind always bothered me, that song is specifically about discrimination faced by black women, it's not subtle about it either.

Also I kinda winced realising its Artie who sings the line 'and the chains of Amistad couldn't hold us' in My Love is Your Love.

I'm sure there are others, this is Glee, but those were the ones I came across yesterday.

[tom87]

I like it, the sing it well but it completely misses the point of both songs.

I had a playlist on the other day and it struck me how many of the songs are tone deaf in who sings them. I Feel Pretty/Unpretty was among them.

A bunch of scrubs singing No Scrubs without any irony.

I Kissed a Girl for a lesbian coming out.

A bunch of mostly white men singing Free Your Mind always bothered me, that song is specifically about discrimination faced by black women, it's not subtle about it either.

Also I kinda winced realising its Artie who sings the line 'and the chains of Amistad couldn't hold us' in My Love is Your Love.

I'm sure there are others, this is Glee, but those were the ones I came across yesterday.

Mother /daughter singing Poker Face.  But it at least gave Idina some material for her concert.

[jaytee1812]

Mother /daughter singing Poker Face.  But it at least gave Idina some material for her concert.

I was never sure what that song was about so I just looked it up. What on earth possessed them to make that a mother/daughter duet?!

[Sara2009]

The " Sing" performance has been released:

http://fyeahgleeclub.tumblr.com/post/106014613846/sing-performance#notes

Thoughts on it?

[phoenixrising]

The " Sing" performance has been released:

http://fyeahgleeclub.tumblr.com/post/106014613846/sing-performance#notes

Thoughts on it?

I'm surprised how much of the song isn't all about Blaine. Although I have no interest in random Warblers and watching them back at Dalton is depressing. 

 

I'm a huge Ed Sheeren fan, so for me, it's alright, but no candle to the original. So far, I like it more than Let It Go or Suddenly Seymour, but those are very low bars. Darren's always worked best for me with the Warblers, so that's a plus. 

[camussie]

I think musically it is much better than "Let it Go" or "Suddenly Seymour" and I agree Darren's singing has always worked best as a warbler.  

 

The set up annoys me in that Rachel blew up her life and it seems everybody and their warbler seem to be bending over backwards to try and cheer her up.  I want to see her struggle some.  Not feel bad about her choices for a hot second and then have everyone go out of their way to "there there" her.  

Edited December 24, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

I don't care for the original or for this cover, but I think Darren handled the falsetto and the rhythm (or was autotuned idk) better than whatever he was doing on SS (which may have been live). This is more suited to him but that said, it's completely forgettable, and he's not that noticeably better than the random Warbler who hogs the first half. 

[phoenixrising]

The set up annoys me in that Rachel blew up her life and it seems everybody and their warbler seem to be bending over backwards to try and cheer her up.  I want to see her struggle some.  Not feel bad about her choices for a hot second and then have everyone go out of their way to "there there" her.  

 

Having any expectations for this season will only disappoint. Knowing their track record, I don't think that's going to happen. 

[Hana Chan]

Darren has always sounded best when he's got the Warblers backing him because he gets a lot of voices to fill in the thinness that we often see with his solo performances. And let's be honest... any performance where you get a whole bunch of people dancing their asses off is going to be engaging. The staging of the number was very reminiscent of the original Warbler performances, right down to Darren wearing his old Warbler jacket and looking like he fit in with his "kids" (the oldest of which are only around a year or two younger than him).

 

It's not a bad cover of the original, but it's nothing that we haven't seen from the Warblers before. It's trying to get the audience nostalgic for the good old days when the Warblers were fresh and new and brought some excitement to the show.

 

So... better than Let It Go and Suddenly Seymour? Sure, but as others have pointed out, this is an awfully low bar. And I'm really questioning the wisdom of having the first episode of the season being totally dominated vocally by two characters when there is still a decent cast to work with. They're not giving anyone who isn't a Rachel or Blaine fan a reason to tune in.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Hana Chan

[itsjustme]

 

The set up annoys me in that Rachel blew up her life and it seems everybody and their warbler seem to be bending over backwards to try and cheer her up.  I want to see her struggle some.  Not feel bad about her choices for a hot second and then have everyone go out of their way to "there there" her.  

Is there a clip for the set up of the song somewhere?

Edited December 24, 2014 by itsjustme

[phoenixrising]

Darren has always sounded best when he's got the Warblers backing him because he gets a lot of voices to fill in the thinness that we often see with his solo performances. And let's be honest... any performance where you get a whole bunch of people dancing their asses off is going to be engaging. The staging of the number was very reminiscent of the original Warbler performances, right down to Darren wearing his old Warbler jacket and looking like he fit in with his "kids" (the oldest of which are only around a year or two younger than him).

 

It's not a bad cover of the original, but it's nothing that we haven't seen from the Warblers before. It's trying to get the audience nostalgic for the good old days when the Warblers were fresh and new and brought some excitement to the show.

 

So... better than Let It Go and Suddenly Seymour? Sure, but as others have pointed out, this is an awfully low bar. And I'm really questioning the wisdom of having the first episode of the season being totally dominated vocally by two characters when there is still a decent cast to work with. They're not giving anyone who isn't a Rachel or Blaine fan a reason to tune in.

 

Bolding is mine, because yes, and that is my biggest problem with the Warblers coming back. It's a pathetic attempt for nostalgia credit, and honestly, I didn't find the performance that engaging because I was distracted with how pathetic the whole thing (and frankly the whole of season 6) is. 

 

As someone who isn't really a Rachel or a Blaine fan, I'm tuning in due to my masochistic needs to see this thing through. I plan on having alcohol nearby though when it gets to be too much. 

 

Also, since when have Rachel and Blaine been best buddies? Why is she going to him? Isn't she closer with Kurt, which would make hanging out with his ex really awkward? I just don't understand. 

[Sara2009]

I didn't think Darren's falsetto was anything to write home about. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't great either.

[jaytee1812]

Ed Sheeran performed by Blaine and The Warblers sound the soundtrack in a circle of hell.

[ancslove]

Let It Go may be completely overplayed by now, but I also think that changing it would be a mistake.  Changing up songs has always been risky on Glee (sometime it paid off, but not always), and i think Let It Go is simultaneously still too new, and too huge to mess with.  The Internet would explode in rage.  Narratively, it's interesting.  In Frozen, it was a big empowering moment for Elsa, but ultimately, it wasn't quite true.  She couldn't just turn her back on everyone and forget her past, or revel unrestrained in her power.  I wonder if this will play out similarly for Rachel.

[jaytee1812]

I've just been watching a documentary about Frozen. In it the songwriters were talking about the idea behind the song. It's basically Elsa saying to hel with her family and embracing her power. That's the exact opposite of where Rachel is. She's run back to her family, literally with her Dad and figuratively with the glee club. And if you take her power to be her talent, she's turned her back on that.

Though I think we put much more thought into this than any writer on this show.

[Hana Chan]

Though I think we put much more thought into this than any writer on this show.

 

Oh, yes... we most certainly have.

 

The problem is that Rachel is not in a particularly sympathetic situation here. Unlike the character in Frozen, she's not "exiled" due to circumstances outside her control. She's there because she made a long series of very poorly thought out choices with no consideration of any possible consequences. Is it unfortunate that she's stuck in Lima with no other options? Sure, but it's not because of fate or unseen forces conspiring against her. She made the decision to quit NYADA and Funny Girl and run off to LA because she got flattered and a bigger prize was dangled in front of her face. Living with the consequences of her decisions sucks, but it's not exactly some grand tragedy of Rachel being denied her rightful place in the spotlight. She overreached and is paying the price.

 

Rachel singing a song of defiance, how the rules that have held her back will now be ignored just feeds into the impression that she's not one who owns up to her own mistakes. The songs are an important part of the storytelling process on Glee and by picking a song that gives the exact opposite message than what the character should be expressing (that she completely fucked up and will try to learn from her mistakes so she can move forward). It's as bad as when they had Blaine singing Hopelessly Devoted to You after Kurt dumped his ass. They're looking at the surface of the song and ignoring what the song actually means and how it fits into the storyline.

[caracas1914]

As far as inappropriate songs per context , it's hard to top "Poker Face" and "I kissed a girl".

[jaytee1812]

I think I Feel Pretty/Unpretty is my pet hate. Unpretty is about girls who don't meet society's standards for women, who are pressured by others to look a certain way. Then have characters played by Lea Michele and Dianna Agron sing it missed the point entirely.

I hated the guys singing No Scrubs and Free Your Mind, especially Free Your Mind.

Torn missed the point of the song. And Losing My Religion isn't about losing religion.

[tom87]

They would be lucky to get one song per episode if the song has to match the situation perfectly.

Edited December 26, 2014 by tom87

[caracas1914]

I think I Feel Pretty/Unpretty is my pet hate. Unpretty is about girls who don't meet society's standards for women, who are pressured by others to look a certain way. Then have characters played by Lea Michele and Dianna Agron sing it missed the point entirely.

 

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they sing it at the PLastic surgeon's office while Rachel is contemplating going under the knife to become more "conventionally"pretty like Quinn. 

 

I agree that Lea and Dianna are attractive women, but the point of the scene is that the character  Rachel is insecure about her looks and appeal, so in that sense I thought the song choice wasn't some cognitive dissonance thing. 

 

Then again, for all we know they wanted to mash two songs with "pretty" in the title. 

Edited December 26, 2014 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they sing it at the PLastic surgeon's office while Rachel is contemplating going under the knife to become more "conventionally"pretty like Quinn.

I agree that Lea and Dianna are attractive women, but the point of the scene is that the character Rachel is insecure about her looks and appeal, so in that sense I thought the song choice wasn't some cognitive dissonance thing.

Then again, for all we know they wanted to mash two songs with "pretty" in the title.

But that still misses the point of the song. Had we been talking about Mercedes, Tina, or Lauren Cises then the song would fit. Having it be Rachel and Quinn makes a mockery of the song. It's about women who don't fit society's beauty standard accepting that.

Honestly, it just came over as Rachel and Quinn being whiny that life was tough when you're pretty. I'd actually have loved Mercedes to have done that song instead.

Edited December 26, 2014 by jtrattray

[tom87]

I guess you have never seen the hate Lea get about her looks, and miss all the insults Rachel get about her looks..

 

On the show we have seen Rachel get insulted more about her looks then Mercedes ever did.

 

This came up before in a way when the bullying of Rachel and Kurt was dismissed becasue they are middle class.  Now dismissing Rachel's very real  bullying because some may find her attractive even though it is  canon she gets teased about it often and in real life the actress playing her gets insulted too.

 

Years of being insulted can wreak havoc  on someones self esteem.   Rachel has been getting insulted on a daily basis for years often about her looks i.e  Yentel, troll, dwarf, man hands, treasure trail,  hobbit, Schwimmer, The Platypus, Rupaul, tranny, stubbles, enormous beak, etc...

Edited December 26, 2014 by tom87

[jaytee1812]

I guess you have never seen the hate Lea get about her looks, and miss all the insults Rachel get about her looks...

Every single actress on the show has been insulted about her looks, I've seen Becca Tobin called ugly, Amber Riley and Jenna Ushkowitz called fat, Naya Rivera called slutty. Hell every women who appears in public has been insulted about their looks.

My point isn't about that. The song is about women who don't meet society's beauty standards, then using women who do to sing it. It changes the song and not in a positive way.

[tom87]

My point is Rachel doesn't fit conventional beauty standards especially stacked up to a Quinn and has been told so on many occasions.

 

Why do you think so many Jewish women/or women in general  get nose jobs, becasue  they don't think they stack to up to society's  ideas of conventional beauty.

Edited December 26, 2014 by tom87

[ancslove]

But in the show, and arguably in real life Hollywood, Rachel doesn't meet society's beauty standards.  That has been a consistent plot point from Season 1 all the way through Season 5.  And the point is that Society has very weird, narrow, and arbitrary standards, not that there's anything wrong with how Rachel/Lea looks.   Quinn's harmony is from the POV of someone who does embody the ideals of conventional beauty, and is starting to realize how narrow and artificial that is.  (Besides, can you really say that Chili does not have conventional beauty?)

[jaytee1812]

My point is Rachel doesn't fit conventional beauty standards especially stacked up to a Quinn and has been told so on many occasions.

 

Why do you think so many Jewish women  get nose jobs becasue  they don't think they stack to up to society's  ideas of conventional beauty.

Then on this point Rachel was wrongly cast because Lea Michele isn't Jewish and does meet conventional beauty standards. (She's not wrongly cast, I'm just saying she doesn't work for this particular storyline)

I get your point, and Puck makes the point in the episode, and as a storyline about the pressures on Jewish girls it should , maybe Lea just couldn't pull it off.

[tom87]

Lea's father is Jewish.   I am pretty sure they made Rachel Jewish becasue Lea could pass as Jewish.   They did not have to have Rachel be Jewish at all. 

 

I don't get how she doesn't work for this storyline when she feels she does not meet a certain level of beauty because of her nose?

 

Lea did a wonderful job in the episode

 

But now I see the real reason behind this whole thing so I'm going to bow out from this discussion now.

Edited December 26, 2014 by tom87

[Sara2009]

Lea Michele doesn't fit conventional beauty standards either. She was actually told once that she wasn't pretty enough for movies(or maybe it was television. I can't quite remember.)

[jaytee1812]

Lea's father is Jewish.   I am pretty sure they made Rachel Jewish becasue Lea could pass as Jewish.   They did not have to have Rachel be Jewish at all. 

 

I don't get how she doesn't work for this storyline when she feels she does not meet a certain level of beauty because of her nose?

 

Lea did a wonderful job in the episode.

Because she looks like Lea Michele. I don't have a problem buying her as Jewish. Hell on the show the two white, blonde, Christian cheerleaders are played by Jews, my problem is buying her as a girl who feels her Jewish nose means she doesn't fit conventional beauty standards. Much as she tries, and the show tries, she doesn't look like Striesand.

The show would've been much better showing Rachel as a girl would didn't fit in despite her conventional beauty. And I still think her and Quinn were the wrong pick for Unpretty.

But in the show, and arguably in real life Hollywood, Rachel doesn't meet society's beauty standards.  That has been a consistent plot point from Season 1 all the way through Season 5.  And the point is that Society has very weird, narrow, and arbitrary standards, not that there's anything wrong with how Rachel/Lea looks.   Quinn's harmony is from the POV of someone who does embody the ideals of conventional beauty, and is starting to realize how narrow and artificial that is.  (Besides, can you really say that Chili does not have conventional beauty?)

I don't think Chilli is conventionally beautiful, though she is beautiful.

I think they missed the mark with Quiinn's storyline too. The Lucy Cabossey stuff was dumb, but realising being beautiful and popular wasn't everything was a good direction for her character.

[caracas1914]

I get someone thinking Lea Michele's is too "pretty" to play Rachel, (it's actually in some ways a compliment.)

However per the SL Rachel feels her nose is too "Jewish" and envies the looks of Quinn with her perfect nose. So for a SL about a girl insecure about Her looks while contemplating plastic surgery I just don't see why "Unpretty" doesn't apply.

It's one thing to opine Lea Michel is miscast as Rachel, it's another to say the song doesn't match the actual storyline, which IMO it does.

( I remember an old John Hughes movie" Some kind of wonderful" where the tomboy unattractive girl was so jarring because the actress cast (Mary Stuart Masterson) blew IMO the pretty popular girl in the movie off the screen so all I could think was that the male lead, Eric Stolz (Glee connection) was a blind idiot.)

As to Quinn, her part in the scene is to be the model of classic beauty Rachel aspires to, I hope no one thinks Dianna Agron is miscast,

just saying.

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

Lea Michele doesn't fit conventional beauty standards either. She was actually told once that she wasn't pretty enough for movies(or maybe it was television. I can't quite remember.)

A former manager told her at age 13 that when she turns 15, it's time for a nose job. It's mentioned in her book and in interviews. Rachel's story in BTW is a twist on this experience. It's very likely she was told by agents etc. she' not pretty enough for movies, and that she won't be a leading lady and can only aspire to the roles of best friend.

 

 

However per the SL Rachel feels her nose is too "Jewish" and envies the looks of Quinn with her perfect nose. S

The irony is of course that Dianna is Jewish.

Edited December 27, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

OF course it's so subjective but I thought Dianna Agron's stunning conventional beauty made the character of Quinn work so well, as in the perfect cheerleader ice princess. I dunno if that's acting.

When I think of Dianna Agron's looks I compare it to the novel " Pride and Prejudice" where everyone is always raving about Elizabeth Bennet's sister, Jane Bennet., as the pretty one. On screen Dianna is a Jane Bennet.

So if Dianna sang verses in the " I feel pretty" song of the mashup, I think it more than fit.

Edited December 27, 2014 by caracas1914

[tom87]

Not sure how Lea Michele could have been miscast if Ryan had her in mind when he created Rachel Berry.

 

I do not think they ever  played it as Rachel WAS an ugly duckling but that she never the less was teased and made to feel insecure about her looks in part becasue of her nose.  Rachel was a social outcast who they also played off as just be a wee bit off with her fashion sense for good measure. They never shied away from the boys looking at her or thinking she was "sneaky hot".  I would say boys more often found her attractive but since she was a social miscast they would never admit it.  Rachel was disliked and a underdog due to her overpowering and off personality but that doesn't keep bullies from picking on anything even if it was untrue to get the upper hand.

 

For me personally I find Lea, Naya, Jenna and Amber more attractive then Dianna. Sure she is pretty but noting interesting or unique about her look.   To each their own.

Edited December 27, 2014 by tom87