Small Talk: The Polygamous Cul-de-Sac

[suomi]

Heard about this on talk radio tonight. Some goats in the Italian Alps scale a nearly vertical dam to get at the salt that leaks through the rocks near the top. My hell, is this the only salt lick in the neighborhood?

Couldn't watch all of it because I got panic-y but I think they manage it without harm. 

 

[Yeah No]

Not that I want to cast a pall on the hopeful mood, but at this point I'm just thankful for still being alive and well, which these days is getting to be no small feat all by itself.  Hubbie and I are hunkered down for the foreseeable future in our little ranch "life raft".  For now we are relatively safe and warm.  Our hospitals aren't full yet.  Let's just hope they don't get overloaded like a lot of places are.  I admit I can't stop feeling sad about the pain and sickness that a lot of people are facing and angry at TPTB for failing us in general.  I am also worried about the end of the year, because if we don't get some kind of relief soon our unemployment benefits will run out like millions of other people, and I don't know what we're going to do after that.  We are already on our second extension for our mortgage deferment and don't know what we're going to do when that comes due unless we can refinance somehow.  I hope the apartment sells soon - of course my realtor is now talking about a "holiday and Covid-related slowdown" to the market.  I am not surprised but I don't need any more setbacks as my father's money to support the place will run out in only a few months.  Plus now I'm tearing through my files and old boxes in the garage looking for the stock certificate and promissory note to the apartment since I'm told I will need the originals for any future closing.  I know I had them years ago but they are not in any of the files they were supposed to be in and I'm told they're hard to get and "expensive" if you lose them. On top of that my main email address has had server problems all day and I think a lot of email didn't get through, and I was expecting to hear back from my realtor.  I needed that like a hole in my head on top of everything else!  So, say your prayers for us, we need a miracle.

[suomi]

@Yeah No

I don't remember you mentioning them, are your husband's parents still living?

[Rabbit Hutch]

9 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

A healthy attitude to take in this troubling times.  You are lucky that DH cares enough for you and your health to go it alone to keep you safe.  That's love.

I am, indeed. 💞  He's sad, too, but it really is for the best.  😊

Be safe out there.  😁

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, suomi said:

@Yeah No

I don't remember you mentioning them, are your husband's parents still living?

No, unfortunately.  His Mom died in 2001 (same year as my Mom) and his Dad died in 2006.  His Dad was 92 when he died - he was a bit older than the rest of our parents.

[suomi]

Hardly seems possible that we lost John 40 years ago. The Queen Mum managed a smile when he asked the posh to rattle their jewelry but Lord Snowdon looked like he was not amused. That's OK Tony, too bad you didn't live to see The Crown.

And the song ended up as the best scene in Ferris Beuller's Day Off.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by suomi

[suomi]

Lots of parents who objected to the Beatles changed their minds after they got a look at the Rolling Stones, LOL.

In 1988, 45-year-old Mick Jagger inducted the Beatles into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

 

[Teafortwo]

At the risk of sounding like the Grinch who stole Chanukah, I want to vent about something. I have a friend who insists on sending me "care packages." (I think of them as careless packages). I've asked her to stop and explained that disposing of the packaging requires extra effort, extra trips up and down the stairs, boxes have to be broken apart, flattened and tied with string for recycling, or we get a fine.  I need to limit deliveries to items I order for myself.  I am dealing with too many as it is.  I have a small apartment, so there's limited space to store packages or their contents. Often when I come in after a walk I am already carrying groceries or other items, so then to have to bring a package up, deal with it and then dispose of the box -- it is just too much.

Well, she didn't listen. Yesterday I received another large package. Inside the box were over a dozen smaller packages wrapped in Chanukah paper. I believe her intention was to have me open one or two each day of the holiday (I'm Jewish; she's not.) But that didn't occur to me until after I opened them all -- and good thing I did, because chocolate attracts mice and we still have plenty of mice. Everything from snacks to hand lotion to cat toys, travel size tissue packs, lip balm. Almost all of it things I don't eat/won't use.  I now have a pile of stuff to donate -- but donating will involve a risky trip to a place that takes food etc. Plus a trip to the place that takes clothing, because there was a pair of knitted slippers in the package too. I already have a pair of slippers I love but don't really use (a welcome, pre-pandemic gift from another friend).  All in all, she must have spent well over $50, not including the shipping cost. Probably close to $100. worth of mostly unwanted stuff. (The Lysol wipes though, will come in handy after I use up the ones I already ordered for myself.) 

She sent me a package a couple of months ago that was very generous and helpful, because it contained alcohol wipes and liquid hand sanitizer. Also some ersatz KN95 masks (the kind on the "fake" non FDA approved list). I thanked her profusely and she offered that she had plenty more in her stockpile and would be happy to send again. That is when I explained about needing to limit the amount of packages coming in. I told her I was grateful but it was enough. I did not mention that the masks were fake, I didn't want to seem critical. I also felt the need to reciprocate a gift, so I sent her two books I knew she wanted to read. Instead of shipping them to myself and having to go to our giant Post Office or UPS store after wrapping them, I sent them from Amazon as gifts with a note. 

It was very hard to disassemble the giant box, as there were layers of tape on all sides/ends. Layers. I got at least two paper cuts in the process. I did this outside and didn't realize I'd really need a knife or scissors to slice through all the tape. There are workmen doing construction upstairs still, they are in the halls a lot, so who knows what is floating around in the hallway air. I really try to limit my exposure to the hallways. I could have left the box in the hall for now, but then I'd have to deal with it tomorrow. I have to do laundry tomorrow though (more trips up and down, more exposure).  

I know she is probably just seeking some sort of connection, and doesn't have anything else to do. She lives in a house and only goes out once a week to get groceries. She can put them in her car. When she gets a package she can leave it on her back porch til she's ready to get rid of it. And now I also have the problem of -- do I owe her another gift(s)? Christmas is coming. I'm going to ask her if, in lieu of a gift, might I make a donation to a charity of her choice? I don't really have the funds to do that right now (I've given what I can to my own causes), but better that than sending her a bunch of "stuff." I have no idea what to send, what she'd like or make use of. We only reconnected in the last couple years after being out of touch for a long time. I've asked a few of her other friends and they said they really didn't know either. She seems like one of those people who have everything. 

Rant over, thanks for reading (if anyone got through my excess verbiage!)

Edited December 10, 2020 by Teafortwo

[Jeanne222]

17 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

At the risk of sounding like the Grinch who stole Chanukah, I want to vent about something. I have a friend who insists on sending me "care packages." (I think of them as careless packages). I've asked her to stop and explained that disposing of the packaging requires extra effort, extra trips up and down the stairs, boxes have to be broken apart, flattened and tied with string for recycling, or we get a fine.  I need to limit deliveries to items I order for myself.  I am dealing with too many as it is.  I have a small apartment, so there's limited space to store packages or their contents. Often when I come in after a walk I am already carrying groceries or other items, so then to have to bring a package up, deal with it and then dispose of the box -- it is just too much.

Well, she didn't listen. Yesterday I received another large package. Inside the box were over a dozen smaller packages wrapped in Chanukah paper. I believe her intention was to have me open one or two each day of the holiday (I'm Jewish; she's not.) But that didn't occur to me until after I opened them all -- and good thing I did, because chocolate attracts mice and we still have plenty of mice. Everything from snacks to hand lotion to cat toys, travel size tissue packs, lip balm. Almost all of it things I don't eat/won't use.  I now have a pile of stuff to donate -- but donating will involve a risky trip to a place that takes food etc. Plus a trip to the place that takes clothing, because there was a pair of knitted slippers in the package too. I already have a pair of slippers I love but don't really use (a welcome, pre-pandemic gift from another friend).  All in all, she must have spent well over $50, not including the shipping cost. Probably close to $100. worth of mostly unwanted stuff. (The Lysol wipes though, will come in handy after I use up the ones I already ordered for myself.) 

She sent me a package a couple of months ago that was very generous and helpful, because it contained alcohol wipes and liquid hand sanitizer. Also some ersatz KN95 masks (the kind on the "fake" non FDA approved list). I thanked her profusely and she offered that she had plenty more in her stockpile and would be happy to send again. That is when I explained about needing to limit the amount of packages coming in. I told her I was grateful but it was enough. I did not mention that the masks were fake, I didn't want to seem critical. I also felt the need to reciprocate a gift, so I sent her two books I knew she wanted to read. Instead of shipping them to myself and having to go to our giant Post Office or UPS store after wrapping them, I sent them from Amazon as gifts with a note. 

It was very hard to disassemble the giant box, as there were layers of tape on all sides/ends. Layers. I got at least two paper cuts in the process. I did this outside and didn't realize I'd really need a knife or scissors to slice through all the tape. There are workmen doing construction upstairs still, they are in the halls a lot, so who knows what is floating around in the hallway air. I really try to limit my exposure to the hallways. I could have left the box in the hall for now, but then I'd have to deal with it tomorrow. I have to do laundry tomorrow though (more trips up and down, more exposure).  

I know she is probably just seeking some sort of connection, and doesn't have anything else to do. She lives in a house and only goes out once a week to get groceries. She can put them in her car. When she gets a package she can leave it on her back porch til she's ready to get rid of it. And now I also have the problem of -- do I owe her another gift(s)? Christmas is coming. I'm going to ask her if, in lieu of a gift, might I make a donation to a charity of her choice? I don't really have the funds to do that right now (I've given what I can to my own causes), but better that than sending her a bunch of "stuff." I have no idea what to send, what she'd like or make use of. We only reconnected in the last couple years after being out of touch for a long time. I've asked a few of her other friends and they said they really didn't know either. She seems like one of those people who have everything. 

Rant over, thanks for reading (if anyone got through my excess verbiage!)

She sounds like a very kind giving friend.  I would wonder if she only goes out once a week where are the things she is sending you coming from?  Things she wants to get rid of?  Things taking up space in her own home?

As Art Linkletter used to say 'People are funny" and she sounds..funny.  A good friend but funny.

I don't think she understands apartments, hallways, rules on tying up cardboard boxes and other things associated with city life.

You might just have to tell her...no more packages I'm on overload with Things!  Will it hurt her feelings?  Maybe but all of us have to set our own boundaries in our lives and it seems yours has been set but she hasn't been notified!

 

[Teafortwo]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

You might just have to tell her...no more packages I'm on overload with Things!  Will it hurt her feelings?  Maybe but all of us have to set our own boundaries in our lives and it seems yours has been set but she hasn't been notified!

You're right. I've done that, but she did not listen. Also, most of the items she sent are disposables (snacks, wipes etc.) so she probably assumes I'll need replacements. I know she purchases a lot of non-perishables in bulk, has extra storage space, a second freezer in the garage, and so forth.

[Absolom]

Would any of your neighbors like any of the items?  That would be much easier than you having to trek around to donation places.

[suomi]

3 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

At the risk of sounding like the Grinch who stole Chanukah, I want to vent about something. 

Bummer. Your housing situations are very different and she doesn't fully appreciate that. You described the difficulty and if she heard any of what you said she chalked it up to a slight imposition, not realizing that more accurately she creates a hardship. 

Hard call, but I'm with Jeanne222. It sounds like your friend won't understand your situation unless you get very, very blunt with her. People often don't stop to think about how others live but you already explained it to her so it sounds like your friendship is on a very unequal foundation. Best of luck to you, however you decide to handle it.

_ _ _ _ _

I learned a lot about different types of housing when I worked in a particular in-bound customer service call center for 3 years. At Icon Fitness here in Utah (which started as ProForm) during the busy season our production lines shipped cartons without hardware kits all day long, all week long. I had worked as a steel tech in metal fab for 3 years there so I understood the pressure, but jeez. Each carton was weighed so the leads knew they were light and the entire company knew the hardware kits were back-ordered from China for 2-3 months but the lines were pushed to meet quotas, so...

Every year we were FLOODED with calls from customers and Sears stores needing hardware to assemble treadmills and other equipment that we didn't have to send to them. The sales people in the stores were righteously pissed because they opened carton after carton hoping to satisfy a customer only to find that ALL the cartons in the back room were missing the hardware kits. 

I obviously was aware that people were indignant but one customer truly made me see the hardship. He lived in a high rise in NYC, he had to pay the doorman to stash the carton when it arrived while he was at work. He had to pay someone to bring it upstairs. He didn't own any tools, not even a hammer or screwdriver, he counted on using the screwdriver that was promised in the hardware kit. He had to pay someone to take the carton back downstairs and pay the doorman to stash it until the Return Authorization truck showed up. If it showed up when it was supposed to - we got those calls as well. Some people hired very expensive assemblers who found out the hardware was missing and couldn't assemble but got paid anyway. I mean, expense after expense for... nothing.

Customer service reps dropped like flies during the busy season, most people couldn't tolerate the abuse. The Mormon girls cried and the guys wished they could. I still recall the customer who called me a "dildo-breathed mf-er" and a "c*** sucking dingleberry" and this was 25 years ago. I said "Sir, no one speaks to me like that, my husband will insist that I quit my job when he hears this." (I was single at the time). He said "I'm very sorry, from your voice I thought you were a guy." (I've heard that all my life, runs in the family). 

The two guys who founded the company are famous in the Mormon community, ooh, local crooks boys made good. I got my Very Best Call regarding one of them. A customer from Chicago said "You tell Gary that I want my hardware tomorrow or I am going straight to his bishop about this thousand dollar paper weight I purchased." I said "yes ma'am" and hoofed it over to the corporate building. I handed Gary's girl the verbatim quote and enjoyed watching her face while she read it. I tracked that customer in the system and saw that she received a Red Label delivery the next afternoon. Maybe Gary ran to the hardware store, I dunno...

I gave up on that after 3 years and transferred into Sears Support, assisting techs doing repairs in the field so the only calls were from them. Troubleshooting electronic malfunctions all day long was so much easier and no one called me nasty names! I got a $200 bonus after my first season there when I laid it on the line about how badly we damaged our reputation by shipping light cartons. They took the the stats I provided "under advisement" during the off-season and found new hardware suppliers for the next year. I talked to Sears buyers at least weekly because I was the liaison and I made sure they knew the input came from me. They called and sent letters thanking me for the improvement, which was nice. I don't know how long it lasted because I tired of putting up with my manager watching porn most of the day and moved on after one more season. But I did enjoy jumping into his office without warning with something for him to look at or sign while he scrambled to keep me away from his screen. 

Then I worked the Saddleman/Le Bra phone lines for a few years and most of the calls came from auto parts stores. Just like at Icon, people on the East coast took no prisoners. Women in Pennsylvania hands down were the, uh, most assertive. People in Cali were laid back; people in Hawaii rarely had the required information, it took 2 or 3 calls to wrap it up. They knew the vehicle's year and make, sometimes they knew the model but I often had to explain that bucket vs bench seats made a difference when ordering seat covers. And auto parts was their business! They were very nice but you could almost hear the trade winds whistling through their heads. The folks in the Midwest and the South were tied for the nicest. The Southerners were extremely polite, everything was yes ma'am, no ma'am, it was like talking to a Marine. Never got a call from Alaska at either company. 

This ends my blanket impressions of those who live in the good ol' USA. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by suomi
typo

[Teafortwo]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Would any of your neighbors like any of the items?  That would be much easier than you having to trek around to donation places.

I like this idea, normally I would, but I don't want to have to explain why I don't want this stuff. It's all little stuff and so random.

PS I found out tonight that she also sent an Xmas present, scheduled to arrive on Saturday. Some sort of electronic gadget. I'm not even gonna tackle it -- I'll find a spot in the closet for it, somehow. After I went into extreme detail about the difficulties of dealing with deliveries, she told me it was smaller than the box I got today. I was absolutely adamant this time:  Thank you, and PLEASE, NO MORE PACKAGES. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Teafortwo

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

I like this idea, normally I would, but I don't want to have to explain why I don't want this stuff. It's all little stuff and so random.

PS I found out tonight that she also sent an Xmas present, scheduled to arrive on Saturday. Some sort of electronic gadget. I'm not even gonna tackle it -- I'll find a spot in the closet for it, somehow. After I went into extreme detail about the difficulties of dealing with deliveries, she told me it was smaller than the box I got today. I was absolutely adamant this time:  Thank you, and PLEASE, NO MORE PACKAGES. 

Oy vey, I can just imagine what you've had to go through with all this living in an apartment and during Covid no less.  What an awful position to put you in, too, having to be so blunt about it.  What else could you do, though?

[Teafortwo]

13 hours ago, suomi said:

Hard call, but I'm with Jeanne222. It sounds like your friend won't understand your situation unless you get very, very blunt with her. People often don't stop to think about how others live but you already explained it to her so it sounds like your friendship is on a very unequal foundation. Best of luck to you, however you decide to handle it.

Thank you, Suomi, and I enjoyed reading your story about the trials and tribulations of dealing with irate customers! Especially the part where you told the guy your husband would make you quit over the customer's horrid disrespect. 

[Teafortwo]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Oy vey, I can just imagine what you've had to go through with all this living in an apartment and during Covid no less.  What an awful position to put you in, too, having to be so blunt about it.  What else could you do, though?

One of the reasons I was so mad is that I had set a boundary,  having repeated several times at each of her offers to send more stuff, to please not do so for the reasons already stated. This was a violation of my boundaries, which my family did so often when I was growing up that it really infuriates me. I also found out the next box is coming from amazon so I will see about returning those items for a refund, which I can then use for a charitable donation. Based  on what she described of this extra "gift" it's not something I'd find useful.

I appreciate all the kind and understanding responses, my fellow posters. Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwaanza, and Merry Christmas all! 

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Teafortwo said:

One of the reasons I was so mad is that I had set a boundary,  having repeated several times at each of her offers to send more stuff, to please not do so for the reasons already stated. This was a violation of my boundaries, which my family did so often when I was growing up that it really infuriates me. I also found out the next box is coming from amazon so I will see about returning those items for a refund, which I can then use for a charitable donation. Based  on what she described of this extra "gift" it's not something I'd find useful.

I appreciate all the kind and understanding responses, my fellow posters. Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwaanza, and Merry Christmas all! 

This posting makes me think of Elvis Presley shaking around and singing 'return to sender'!

I wonder if that's something allowed at the post office these days?  Lol

[deirdra]

5 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

This posting makes me think of Elvis Presley shaking around and singing 'return to sender'!

I wonder if that's something allowed at the post office these days?  Lol

It would probably involve a trip to the post office or courier company, which is more work and makes you more vulnerable to Covid.  And now they typically charge you for returns unless you are physically there to refuse delivery, which is difficult unless your apartment is right by the front door.  The PO and couriers typically just drop off packages and run.

I moved into an apartment on the 4th floor of a new building 4 weeks before the March shutdown. We set aside an area in the recycling room in the basement where people leave things they don't need and take things they do need, including books. With libraries & donation centers shut down for months, this has worked very well and we're still doing it. I have a drop zone inside my door where I leave books etc. for ~5 days before handling them.

Edited December 11, 2020 by deirdra

[Jeanne222]

5 hours ago, deirdra said:

It would probably involve a trip to the post office or courier company, which is more work and makes you more vulnerable to Covid.  And now they typically charge you for returns unless you are physically there to refuse delivery, which is difficult unless your apartment is right by the front door.  The PO and couriers typically just drop off packages and run.

I moved into an apartment on the 4th floor of a new building 4 weeks before the March shutdown. We set aside an area in the recycling room in the basement where people leave things they don't need and take things they do need, including books. With libraries & donation centers shut down for months, this has worked very well and we're still doing it. I have a drop zone inside my door where I leave books etc. for ~5 days before handling them.

What a nice idea. Sharing. I really like that plan.
Yes the post office or other carriers would require trips. Sometimes I start to plan actions and for a minute forget about Covid!  How could I!!!

I was doing ok with my limited activities but it’s gotten so bad I’ve cut out everything except essentials.

I guess as Grandma once told me “what can’t be cured must be endured “!

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

One of the reasons I was so mad is that I had set a boundary,  having repeated several times at each of her offers to send more stuff, to please not do so for the reasons already stated. This was a violation of my boundaries, which my family did so often when I was growing up that it really infuriates me. I also found out the next box is coming from amazon so I will see about returning those items for a refund, which I can then use for a charitable donation. Based  on what she described of this extra "gift" it's not something I'd find useful.

I appreciate all the kind and understanding responses, my fellow posters. Happy Chanukah, Happy Kwaanza, and Merry Christmas all! 

I read that Amazon will only issue a credit to a gift recipient so unless the charity is accessible through Amazon you might not have much choice.  But I read that Amazon has "hub lockers" where you can drop off returns, which would eliminate needing to go to the post office.  But even if you did go to the PO you would only have to drop off the package, not stand on line and see someone at the window because in most cases you can print a label from their website.  In bigger PO's like in NYC there is usually a box or something on the counter designated for such drop-offs, although you would have to pass the holiday season line to get near it.

I go through this myself - I sell my "gently used" clothing and other items on eBay and sometimes have to drop off the package inside the post office because it won't fit in the thin slot in the mailbox outside the building.  And now because a truck hit the outside mailbox at my PO and several months later there is still no new one (they say they ordered one), I always have to go inside to put my packages in a mail slot near the PO boxes.  If it's too big to fit in there I have to leave it at the desk.  At this time of year that means walking past a line of people standing in a small, claustrophobic space (this is a small PO).  Not something I like to do these days.  I tell my husband I'm going to the PO to risk my life sending a package.

BTW, Happy Chanukah!

Edited December 12, 2020 by Yeah No

[Teafortwo]

@Yeah No

A friend who lives in upper Manhattan (in a not great area next to elevated subway tracks) just sold her studio for close to asking price after only six weeks on the market. It needs a full gut reno. Thought this news might bring you some holiday cheer!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yeah No]

30 minutes ago, Teafortwo said:

@Yeah No

A friend who lives in upper Manhattan (in a not great area next to elevated subway tracks) just sold her studio for close to asking price after only six weeks on the market. It needs a full gut reno. Thought this news might bring you some holiday cheer!

Awww, that's so sweet of you to tell me that!  Thanks!  I admit I'm having a hard time keeping a positive attitude about the apartment.  I'm this close to giving in to having it painted because it would make it look so much better and it's probably the cheapest thing I could do right now.  It's had a few showings already but in every case they are hemming and hawing over having to do so much renovation.  I think the painting will make it feel less overwhelming to buyers  The apartment hasn't been painted since the 1980s and the trim and windowsills and everything need to be fixed.  If it can look like a clean white box I think people might feel better about it.  I might even increase the price of the apartment a little to compensate.  My realtor is going to look into whether that would be a good idea first with his experts.

[Kohola3]

8 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

.  My realtor is going to look into whether that would be a good idea first with his experts.

Obviously you need to go with whatever the experts recommend. However I agree with you that a coat of paint is the cheapest way to freshen things up. When people see dings and marks on the wall, they assume the whole place was not taken care of. That may or may not be true but at least it looks a little more polished.

[suomi]

Fresh paint and vinyl plank flooring. The 4' by 6" planks are easy to install, look like wood and are not expensive. They are tongue and groove and don't require adhesive. Cut with a knife and tap into place.

[Jeanne222]

We sold our home a few years ago. We were going to pay a landscaper to freshen things up!  Our realtor said don’t do it!

 After the inspection we had to spend some money on another repair of something we didn’t know about!

Listen to the experts. They know best. 

[CalicoKitty]

I sold my house in July and my realtor told me not to paint inside, even though it needed it.  It sold very quickly.  I guess people expect to paint before they move in.

 

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Obviously you need to go with whatever the experts recommend. However I agree with you that a coat of paint is the cheapest way to freshen things up. When people see dings and marks on the wall, they assume the whole place was not taken care of. That may or may not be true but at least it looks a little more polished.

Yep, I agree.  It's really to appeal to the buyers' emotions more than anything else.

5 hours ago, suomi said:

Fresh paint and vinyl plank flooring. The 4' by 6" planks are easy to install, look like wood and are not expensive. They are tongue and groove and don't require adhesive. Cut with a knife and tap into place.

I've actually been considering the vinyl plank flooring (even picked out one I liked online) but between the painting and the flooring I'd be looking at a lot of money that it's very hard for me to spend.  The painting and wall fixing alone is going to cost me over $5,000, and I'm told that's a reasonable price for NYC.  I haven't had estimates done on the flooring just yet.

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

I sold my house in July and my realtor told me not to paint inside, even though it needed it.  It sold very quickly.  I guess people expect to paint before they move in.

These walls need more than just paint.  They need repair.  They haven't been painted in over 30 years so the windowsills have eroded and the tape around the top where the walls meet the ceiling is coming loose.  Seeing it like that makes it look like there's an awful lot of work that needs to be done and it can feel overwhelming.  You can't just move in and then start painting yourself.  You'd need a professional to fix all that.  Plus it looks depressing.  People want to see something fresh and aspirational because they're notoriously bad at visualizing the way it could look.  The apartment also needs a whole new kitchen and baths.  Nothing was ever renovated in 46 years and it's in bad shape.  So the painting is the biggest bang for my buck and makes a huge difference in the appearance of the place.

[Jeanne222]

15 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Yep, I agree.  It's really to appeal to the buyers' emotions more than anything else.

I've actually been considering the vinyl plank flooring (even picked out one I liked online) but between the painting and the flooring I'd be looking at a lot of money that it's very hard for me to spend.  The painting and wall fixing alone is going to cost me over $5,000, and I'm told that's a reasonable price for NYC.  I haven't had estimates done on the flooring just yet.

These walls need more than just paint.  They need repair.  They haven't been painted in over 30 years so the windowsills have eroded and the tape around the top where the walls meet the ceiling is coming loose.  Seeing it like that makes it look like there's an awful lot of work that needs to be done and it can feel overwhelming.  You can't just move in and then start painting yourself.  You'd need a professional to fix all that.  Plus it looks depressing.  People want to see something fresh and aspirational because they're notoriously bad at visualizing the way it could look.  The apartment also needs a whole new kitchen and baths.  Nothing was ever renovated in 46 years and it's in bad shape.  So the painting is the biggest bang for my buck and makes a huge difference in the appearance of the place.

I watch so many shows..Flip or Flop and House Hunters!  I'm calculating that the realtor took into consideration the appearance and condition of the apartment when pricing for sale.

Honestly I can see a buyer salivating at the thought of making it absolutely gorgeous.

Save your money. Give the market a chance.  At three months we'll talk again.  Lol

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I watch so many shows..Flip or Flop and House Hunters!  I'm calculating that the realtor took into consideration the appearance and condition of the apartment when pricing for sale.

Honestly I can see a buyer salivating at the thought of making it absolutely gorgeous.

Save your money. Give the market a chance.  At three months we'll talk again.  Lol

I would do that but for me the issue is more complicated (of course, my luck) by the fact that I have to pay $1,000 a month just on maintenance and taxes to keep the place, plus about $50 a month in electric (which is for nothing since no one is using it, but that's NY for you).  So every month I wait costs me over $1,000 and pretty soon my father's money is going to run out (in about 4 months).  I'm thinking that the painting can only help it sell sooner.  Now you see the problem.

[Kohola3]

20 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Now you see the problem.

It is certainly a conundrum and every case is special.  I only know my own situation although I did not have the deadline you do.  I did get my house painted before I put it up for sale and made sure that any obvious repairs were complete.  Of course it didn't cost me that much to have that work done so it was worth it.  

Personally walking into a place that is clearly well worn would make me think twice about the additional work to be done. I'd either want a lower price or I'd walk away.  

Obviously you know what you are able to support, how long you can wait, and the market situation.  Go with your gut.

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I would do that but for me the issue is more complicated (of course, my luck) by the fact that I have to pay $1,000 a month just on maintenance and taxes to keep the place, plus about $50 a month in electric (which is for nothing since no one is using it, but that's NY for you).  So every month I wait costs me over $1,000 and pretty soon my father's money is going to run out (in about 4 months).  I'm thinking that the painting can only help it sell sooner.  Now you see the problem.

Yes I see the problem but I still think you need to give the process some time.  If you have four months worth of expenses maybe give two months then reevaluate.  It only been on the market three weeks with Thanksgiving inserted.

Plus the $5000 paint cost would give you four extra months of fees.  

I have no idea how real estate is moving in New York.  Most of the country is booming.  You list it and it's sold!

If you're agent is good...trust him for a bit!

Key is having one of the top real estate agents.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Jeanne222

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

plus about $50 a month in electric (which is for nothing since no one is using it, but that's NY for you).

Is it electric heat?

[Sandy W]

25 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Is it electric heat?

Up until a few years ago, we travelled south every winter.  We drained our hot water heating system and filled it with anti-freeze, we also shut off the water supply to the house at the main valve.  Nonetheless, we were assessed a basic supply charge every month as the service was "available" to us. 

This prompted my husband to compose a resume letter to the township listing his credentials and qualifications and proposing a suitable starting salary.  Even if there were no positions open that required his services, he was "available" for employment and expected compensation accordingly.  Of course, we never heard back from the town but I can only imagine the guffaws that went around the council chamber when this letter was read aloud .

Edited December 13, 2020 by Sandy W

[Rabbit Hutch]

As someone getting ready to buy a place this year, I would suggest not to paint, put down flooring, replace bathroom fixtures, put in granite countertops, or upgrade to stainless steel ANYTHING, unless the original items/areas are in poor condition.

I've looked at many different homes in the past couple of years and much of the time I'm thinking silently to myself that if I purchase this place I'm going to have to redo it all, on top of taking care of updating windows, HVAC, electrical, and worrying about new flooring possibly covering an old asbestos one.  Same goes with new siding covering a cemestos one.  Not a big deal unless you're considering an addition.

Yep, I'm lookin for that perfect cottage fixer-upper, folks.  And when I find it I'm gonna invite 😍Jonathan😍 over to help me...ugh, err...paint. 🥰   And deconstruct and then reconstruct. 💞   That's my story, people, and I'm sticking to it.  😉

[Teafortwo]

$5000 does not sound excessive for the kind of work you're describing. Those Flip shows on TV always price repairs much lower than they'd be in the NY Metro area. That said, it's still a lot of money in $ terms so I can see it's not an easy decision. 

In other news, all's well that end's well (or almost) with my unwanted gifts situation. Amazon makes it really easy to do returns. For $8 and change I can drop off the package at UPS store and for another $1 Amazon is mailing me the shipping label. The item came in a sealed shipping box inside a larger Amazon box. So I don't have to reseal the large box I can simply affix the label to the box containing the item, without opening it. I will be getting a credit for $122 a few days after Amz receives the return. That's the total *after* the cost of shipping and label so I'm not out of pocket.

Fortunately it was really warm and sunny here today when I had to deal with the large box and the dyed green giant burlap "gift bag" that the smaller package was in. I guess that is Amazon's idea of gift wrap! I'm grateful my close friends know that gadgets aren't my thing and that I'm always trying to get rid of stuff.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Teafortwo

[Teafortwo]

@VedaPierce I wanted to respond to the discussion about moving that you started over in Meri's thread. I've thought a lot about ittoo. I live in NYC (not Manhattan though). I have a lot of friends in Las Vegas (for a bunch of reasons) and have almost moved there several times but each time, the lack of decent medical care and the necessity of driving everywhere (for groceries, etc.) held me back. Drivers there are the absolute worst. (New York drivers as you know are aggressive but often skilled). Vegas drivers are aggressive but clueless in their maneuvers. What attracts me is the beauty of the desert landscape, and the proximity to lots of hiking, plus close friends with swimming pools. Now prices there have risen so fast, while declining here, that it just doesn't seem feasible. 

I don't think I'd be thinking about moving if it wasn't for an inconsiderate next door neighbor in my apartment building. If he moved, I would be ecstatic. However, as I've mentioned before on this board, I would love to have my own washer/dryer (especially now) and I can't afford the kinds of apartments that have those. It would be great to have a house, theoretically, but I know I'd be at the mercy of trades for repairs, especially if I moved where I can afford it (South Jersey). Lots of storms there and flooding means lots of damage and upkeep. I do feel for you in feeling trapped and wanting to "get out." I keep checking to see if I could make a lateral move - sell my place and buy something similar nearby, but without the bad neighbor.

[Yeah No]

15 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

It is certainly a conundrum and every case is special.  I only know my own situation although I did not have the deadline you do.  I did get my house painted before I put it up for sale and made sure that any obvious repairs were complete.  Of course it didn't cost me that much to have that work done so it was worth it.  

Personally walking into a place that is clearly well worn would make me think twice about the additional work to be done. I'd either want a lower price or I'd walk away.  

Obviously you know what you are able to support, how long you can wait, and the market situation.  Go with your gut.

We priced it as a fixer-upper and people will know that when they see how much more comparable apartments are going for that don't need as much or any renovation.  I'm told some buyers are OK with fixing the place up themselves because that way they get exactly what they want.

I'm trying to go with my gut, but this is a complicated situation so I'm going to wait until my gut feels more confident about which direction to pursue.  Should I leave it as-is and hope to attract someone that is OK with doing the renovations or do what I can afford to make it look better and more attractive to buyers?  I guess my gut doesn't know yet, LOL.  Usually it's easier to sell something the less renovation it needs.  But I'm realistic - I can't afford the renovations this place would need to make it "move-in ready".  It needs everything.  The kitchen is unusable plus I had the appliances removed since they were no good anyway.  I didn't have much choice.  The cabinets are 46 years old and were made of poor quality materials so they are not savable.  In some places they're basically falling apart.  The bathrooms are usable but look pretty awful and deep cleaning would probably not help much.  They need complete renovation as well.  Even though this building was built in 1974 it didn't have the best quality kitchens and baths. Most buildings that were built in earlier decades were built to last.  This one wasn't and then of course my parents didn't do one ounce of renovation in 46 years.

15 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Yes I see the problem but I still think you need to give the process some time.  If you have four months worth of expenses maybe give two months then reevaluate.  It only been on the market three weeks with Thanksgiving inserted.

Plus the $5000 paint cost would give you four extra months of fees.  

I have no idea how real estate is moving in New York.  Most of the country is booming.  You list it and it's sold!

If you're agent is good...trust him for a bit!

Key is having one of the top real estate agents.

I'm told the market has been brisk in NY both buying and selling, but that right now because of the holiday season and possible increasing Covid concerns there seems to be a little bit of a lull.  Last week the apartment didn't have any showings.  Given that this year has been unpredictable they don't know when it will end.  I left it to my realtor and his experts to give me advice on whether to do the painting now or hold off for a while.  It's just that the first few people who looked at the place all had concerns about having to do so much renovation.  I can't afford to do a complete renovation and I might not even get what I put into it if I did, so I have to do what I can.  It's always easier to sell something that's completely renovated but that might not be the best from a cost POV even factoring in the extra time it might take to sell in an unrenovated state.  So I am going to wait until my realtor gets a consensus from his team.  He works with a team of realtors that is very highly respected among people in the know.  I'm not so sure he is an authority on his own, though, but that's OK if he has access to the wisdom of those that are.

 

[Yeah No]

13 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Is it electric heat?

No, this is one of those old NYC buildings with steam heat.  You don't have a thermostat in your apartment so you don't set your own temperature or get a separate heating bill.  The whole building boiler is set to push up heat from a centralized thermostat controlled by the superintendent of the building.  The monthly maintenance fee covers heating costs as well as gas for the stove.  That's one of the reasons the maintenance is so high.  The maintenance also includes the real estate taxes and money that goes into a reserve fund for capital improvements, which in this building is pretty good.  It recently had its elevator replaced (they couldn't just refurbish it because they couldn't get the parts anymore) and they didn't slap on a special assessment for it.

[Gramto6]

This is just me speaking here. If I were in your situation I would probably cut losses and let the place go for the first close to realistic offer. I know there are memories here but I also know the financial drain. My heart would break to let it go but if I have to think of my future life, what would my dad want...he would want me to have a happy unencumbered life. You do what gives you peace.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Gramto6

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Gramto6 said:

This is just me speaking here. If I were in your situation I would probably cut losses and let the place go for the first close to realistic offer. I know there are memories here but I also know the financial drain. My heart would break to let it go but if I have to think of my future life, what would my dad want...he would want me to have a happy unencumbered life. You do what gives you peace.

I'm hoping that happens but so far I haven't had any offers.  When I do get one I'm pretty motivated to sell.  Anything I cared about in there is gone now so I'm not conflicted about selling it, although I am still sad, of course.

[Gramto6]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

I'm hoping that happens but so far I haven't had any offers.  When I do get one I'm pretty motivated to sell.  Anything I cared about in there is gone now so I'm not conflicted about selling it, although I am still sad, of course.

.No doubt, just wish the best outcome for you, Hugs

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Gramto6 said:

.No doubt, just wish the best outcome for you, Hugs

Thanks....I admit I'm not too confident right now about selling it.  I'm not sure I'm getting the best advice from my realtor either.  Already I'm having concerns about him.  I didn't need that too.  I feel like he always needs to consult with his experts on everything as if he doesn't know what to tell me by himself.  I didn't think he would be that way given who he works for and how high a reputation the team he works with has, so it's disconcerting to say the least.  I feel like I keep asking for advice but not getting the answers I need to make a decision.  He originally told me to consider painting but then later told me to hold off based on having some interest from people willing to do renovations.  But then when they didn't pan out I thought he should have talked with me about whether or not to paint.  I had to contact him about it and when I asked him what he thought I should do he acted wishy-washy about it, like sure, whatever I wanted to do is fine, and if I want to paint that's OK.  But my question was whether he thought it would be worth spending the money on it.  Then when I asked him if painting meant I could raise the asking price he acted like he didn't know and he'd have to ask his team for their input.  I priced the place without any renovations and no wiggle room for that, so I'm not going to like renovating it if raising the asking price is not recommended.  It's one of the reasons I wanted to give myself some wiggle room in the asking price, but he convinced me to price it as low as I did.  I started to see the pattern that he always has to go to his team with everything or he doesn't really know how to answer.  I was shocked at this, given what I thought I knew about him.  He told me he should have an answer for me by this weekend but I didn't hear from him.  I am going to have to contact him this morning.  Of course I'm losing sleep over it now.

ETA:  My realtor just emailed me that we should talk today.  He said his experts say I should do the painting but not drop the price.  I'm not thrilled about this as I felt I gave it a very low price already.  Later I might post the listing for another apartment in the neighborhood that isn't as nice but is priced the same so maybe you'll see why I'm upset about this.

He also mentioned that it had another showing on Saturday but the person passed - I didn't get any feedback on why yet, but he said it's a sign that there is still some interest in it even at an otherwise slow time.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Yeah No

[ginger90]

I’ve sold 4 houses. The first was sold to a hospital and they paid the appraised price. All they asked is that I leave the dishwasher. Ummmm sure!

The second, I had the oil burner and chimneys cleaned. It sold in 2 weeks.

The third, as with the others, I gave a good cleaning and it sold in a week.

You just never know. You could do a complete renovation and think it’s great, sell, and the buyers do a gut job. I say clean is important, the correct price is most important. 
 

The fourth, was my parents house in New York. In 1960 they bought it for $17,500. It sold in 2012 for $425,000. It’s been renovated and is on the market for $599,000, with a sale pending.

[Yeah No]

22 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I’ve sold 4 houses. The first was sold to a hospital and they paid the appraised price. All they asked is that I leave the dishwasher. Ummmm sure!

The second, I had the oil burner and chimneys cleaned. It sold in 2 weeks.

The third, as with the others, I gave a good cleaning and it sold in a week.

You just never know. You could do a complete renovation and think it’s great, sell, and the buyers do a gut job. I say clean is important, the correct price is most important. 
 

The fourth, was my parents house in New York. In 1960 they bought it for $17,500. It sold in 2012 for $425,000. It’s been renovated and is on the market for $599,000, with a sale pending.

Wow, thanks for the advice.  I've sold two houses and both looked pristine perfect when put on the market.  The first one sold in 2 weeks at only $5,000 less than asking price (in 1996).  The second one sold in 2000 for asking price for cash, but it took 4 months because we put it on the market around Thanksgiving and here in CT even in a great market it's often crickets all winter long.  I just found the paperwork for my parents' purchase on the apartment.  It cost them $16,000 in 1984.  I guess I'm just nervous because we're going into the Winter and because of all the recent Covid rollbacks in NYC.  It might slow the market down a lot and that's just what I don't need right now.  My realtor giving me a warning about that the other day didn't help.

[ginger90]

4 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

Wow, thanks for the advice.  I've sold two houses and both looked pristine perfect when put on the market.  The first one sold in 2 weeks at only $5,000 less than asking price (in 1996).  The second one sold in 2000 for asking price for cash, but it took 4 months because we put it on the market around Thanksgiving and here in CT even in a great market it's often crickets all winter long.  I just found the paperwork for my parents' purchase on the apartment.  It cost them $16,000 in 1984.  I guess I'm just nervous because we're going into the Winter and because of all the recent Covid rollbacks in NYC.  It might slow the market down a lot and that's just what I don't need right now.  My realtor giving me a warning about that the other day didn't help.

Aren’t the long ago prices something?!

My parents were nervous about $17,500 at the time. My father was an electrician and my mother was a nurse. They did just fine. 😁

[Yeah No]

2 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Aren’t the long ago prices something?!

My parents were nervous about $17,500 at the time. My father was an electrician and my mother was a nurse. They did just fine. 😁

I know - You're lucky, though.  My husband's parents bought their co-op in Washington Hts. in Manhattan the early 1970s for $16,000.  They sold it about 12 years later for $50,000 when they retired and moved up to around Middletown, NY to be near their daughter.  Today the apartment is worth close to a million dollars.  If they had just stayed there until my father in law passed in 2006 it could have sold for at least $500,000.  But no such luck for us, unfortunately.

[suomi]

In 1999 this journalist was writing for a magazine that assigned him to do a 30th anniversary story about the Tate-LaBianca murders in 1969.

He never had an interest in the case and figured reading Helter Skelter and possibly interviewing Vince Bugliosi would be good background for his assignment. 

I forget now how his doubts set in but the more he got into the details the more he ran across shenanigans. 

Bugliosi allowed three of his witnesses to lie on the stand, including music producer Terry Melcher who lived in the Cielo Dr house with Candice Bergen for 2 years before Sharon and Roman rented it. 

Bugliosi also didn't follow rules of discovery and turn over evidence that he should have and he fabricated the race war motive, which he cheerfully admitted later. OK so that's part of that aspect, plus testimony agreements that weren't signed and were therefore invalid. (There is much more but we gotta move on).

His first interview with Bugliosi went OK until they began sparring about the shenanigans, which made him decide to do more research. 

Manson always did federal time during his adulthood incarcerations and the federal system is notoriously diligent.

When he was paroled in '67 (after a 6 year term) he was restricted to Los Angeles. He not only didn't report to his agent as required he moved to San Francisco without permission. And his federal parole was not violated. He just showed up and they said OK, thanks for the update and assigned him a new agent. This is a guy who had been locked up for half of his life including juvenile incarcerations, not a first-timer who maybe deserved some slack.

His new agent said "I think you should hang around in Haight-Ashbury, the vibe would benefit you." Great advice since abstaining from alcohol, drugs and crime were conditions of parole, right?

Less than a year later he and some of his harem were arrested (again, his parole was not violated) and his agent and his wife applied for and received permission to foster Manson's new infant while they went through the court process and again his parole was not violated.

Next, his parole wasn't violated when he moved back to SoCal without permission or notice, again it was "Thanks for the update." 

He was arrested 4 or 5 times before the murders and his parole was never violated. The charges always were dropped even though he clearly committed the offenses. He never violated for lack of a permanent address or means of support (employment) or associating with law breakers.

There is so much more but long story short, obviously he was someone's useful idiot.

The journalist missed his deadline and kept getting extensions until time finally ran out for good. Then he did 20 years of interviews and research and published a book in 2019 for the 50th anniversary.

So we all thought Bugliosi was an upstanding law and order respectable type, right? He was NUTS. Check out this part of the interview the journalist did with Joe Rogan.

I'm about 7 hours into the book and loving it.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by suomi
typo

[xwordfanatik]

Wow!  What's the name of the book?  I want to read it.

[suomi]

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

Wow!  What's the name of the book?  I want to read it.

Don't be thrown by the title.  Maybe check out more of the interview, to be sure? It's a couple three hours altogether.

Chaos - Charles Manson, the CIA and the Secret History of the Sixties 

by Tom O'Neill - 528 pages

Edited December 14, 2020 by suomi
video length

[suomi]

A chain of 900 strangers paid for one another's meals over several days at a Dairy Queen drive-through.

It started with an older gentleman who pulled up to the Dairy Queen Grill & Chill drive-through window in Brainerd, Minn., at the height of the lunch hour on a Thursday.

“I’d also like to pay for the car behind me,” cashier Darla Anderson said the customer told her on Dec. 3. “Whatever they’ve ordered, I’ll cover it.”

Anderson rang up the two orders and thought that would be the end of it. But two days and hundreds of cars later, she and the rest of the crew were still ringing up “pay it forward” orders as each person who came to the drive-through offered to pay for the car behind them.

Some people who had only ordered an ice cream cone for themselves ended up paying more than $50 to cover a carload of children behind them, said Jensen.

“And if they couldn’t pay for the whole thing, they’d just pay what they could,” she said. “A lot of people asked us to keep the change, so we used that to help cover some of the larger orders.”

Jensen said she feels fortunate that she’s been able to keep up with the bills and pay her staff during a time when many restaurants have taken a financial hit during the pandemic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2020/12/14/dairy-queen-drive-thru-chain/