S07.E05: Our New Normal

[mbutterfly]

Will is amazing, and I love him. But boy does this little kid have a lot to adjust to. His own adoption was well sorted out, and I don't think it was too stressful. But then the very quick transport to India, Zoey, Jen leaving, Jen sick, Zoey. I'm not surprised we see a little regressing. I think he'll be fine. As much as I like the show, I think they should stop in another year or so. I think this sort of filming probably doesn't harm preschoolers (who in today's world are generally used to be cute for the cameras/cells). I think it so commonly does hurt children of school age who become so aware of eyes upon them. 

Edited April 4, 2014 by mbutterfly

[jodo]

Cakegate!  LOVE IT!  LOL

I was glad to hear Bill tell Jen you don't need to be here and it is true, he is likely worn out from just thinking of all his responsibility never mind doing it all....3 meals, snacks, baths, naps, diapers for two (why is Will still in diapers which it appears from his pants).....and I am sure I have left a ton out, who does the grocery shopping, laundry and cleans the house?  So Jen tags along feeling dizzy and Bill gets to worry about that too, she was just another draw on his already taxed energy but had to show us she was super mom making it all about her. 

[jodo]

@mbutterfly..I agree, I have noticed how much more Will is looking at the camera and Zoey is too...he is far more aware now and the camera/production people must interact with them all you know speaking to them between filming and stuff so it must be a bit confusing to the kids.  Will was used to being filmed at New Day and often looked at the person with the video there, he is used to it.  Zoey's eyes are wide and beautiful gazing about.

The protein/veggies/salad diet is for adults trying to lose weight (Bill?) not for growing kids.  They will not become obese if the fats added are good fats.  There are no good fats in burgers/fries or take out foods deep fried in fats and certainly not in cake or ice cream.  That is why North America is fat.  

Will had exemplary manners at their first dinner didn't he so seeing him a year later was certainly a setback.  We have seen them consume so many finger type foods like burgers/fries/nachos/goldfish I think he is getting used to eating with his hands and Jen doing the excessive wiping.  

Well maybe in 5-10 years Kate will write a tell-all book!  LOL

[all4mom]

Yeah; where is Kate (or the grandparents)?  I certainly hope they're helping and it's just not shown, for whatever reason.  If not, poor Bill!

[LegalParrot81]

@mbutterfly..I agree, I have noticed how much more Will is looking at the camera and Zoey is too...he is far more aware now and the camera/production people must interact with them all you know speaking to them between filming and stuff so it must be a bit confusing to the kids.  Will was used to being filmed at New Day and often looked at the person with the video there, he is used to it.  Zoey's eyes are wide and beautiful gazing about.

The protein/veggies/salad diet is for adults trying to lose weight (Bill?) not for growing kids.  They will not become obese if the fats added are good fats.  There are no good fats in burgers/fries or take out foods deep fried in fats and certainly not in cake or ice cream.  That is why North America is fat.  

Will had exemplary manners at their first dinner didn't he so seeing him a year later was certainly a setback.  We have seen them consume so many finger type foods like burgers/fries/nachos/goldfish I think he is getting used to eating with his hands and Jen doing the excessive wiping.  

Well maybe in 5-10 years Kate will write a tell-all book!  LOL

So, I'm confused, you say Protein/Veggies/Salad etc. are not the proper food for growing children, what is?  Children need protein, children need vegetables, calcium (the children were given milk with their meal), we've seen them also include fruit.

Will has regressed since the arrival of Zoey in several ways, which isn't unusual when a new sibling is thrown into the mix.  The increased thumb sucking, forgetting how to use the napkin (my daughter forgot she was potty trained when her brother showed up. LOL), that will get better.  

[all4mom]

Kids need fat; we ALL need fat, actually.  Is Jen fat-phobic?  Kids, especially, not only for growth, but for optimal brain development.

[MrMattyMatt]

I am sure Kate and the Grandparents are around more than we see

[SpaceCases]

Jen nor Bill appear to be "fat-phobic." They've taken Will to restaurants where he eats burgers and fries, ribs, etc. The other week they had  big PB&J sandwiches with fruit on the side. 

[jodo]

I didn't mean to imply protein/veggies/salad was bad for them, it is not ENOUGH for them or they wouldn't be so ravenous, what is wrong with adding a mashed sweet potato.  Will is eating like he is starving and cramming the food into his mouth like there will be no more food and Zoey is following his lead, neither child came from a starving environment.

[EmmeRose]

I think Will is potty trained as I remember in the swimming lesson episode, he said to Jen that he had to poop!  He might be wearing the pull-ups, which are for the toddlers who are potty trained but sometimes have accidents.  My sister is a kindergarten teacher and primarily the little boys still have accidents.  Many of them, who are 5 years old, wear the pull-ups!

[all4mom]

Somehow, I don't think Jen standing there arguing with him about whether or not there's cake to the point where he cries is going to help him resolve his issues with food (assuming he has any).  Most toddlers are finicky, not shoveling every edible thing they can find into their mouths; it's clear he's hungry.  Give him some rib-sticking food of substance (that wouldn't be salad, or what looked like just lettuce leaves) and then, since it's clear they've trained him to expect dessert afterwards, a little cookie or whatever.  Then end dinner and divert his attention.  I did have to laugh when Bill said they were a family now and could sit around telling stories over dinner.  Not until Will stops yelling for cake, LOL.  Zoey was also saying, "Eat!" as soon as they pulled up to the table at the hospital cafeteria, then she tore into the bagel with her two teeth.  Dang...  Will looked happier in that orphanage video than he did in this last episode.  I hope that changes soon...  That's true; Will did go potty before the swim lesson.

[Lola16]

 

Will is eating like he is starving and cramming the food into his mouth like there will be no more food

That's exactly how Will ate when we first met him in China.  He shoveled all the food on his plate (rice, broccoli everything) in his mouth at once.  They remarked on his wonderful appetite.  It's not a new behavior with him.  It's not something Jen or Bill trained him to do.

[HelloDolly]

Yes, poor mistreated Will and Zoey.  They probably would have been happier and better off if not adopted by Jen and Bill.  Rotten luck for those kids.

[Madame]

I rewatched this episode last night, and I think my favorite part was Zoey watching the video on Jen's phone and going "Wih! Wih!" when she saw Will.  And then mouthing the words "Love you, Mommy" along with the video.  Too freaking adorable. 

I'm glad we seem to be getting to the end of Jen's chemo (though not nearly as glad as she was, I'm sure).  They've handled things remarkably well, considering, but it's obviously wearing on everybody.

[letitgo]

I rarely join Forums - I'm more of a lurker, but after reading this thread I felt I did have something to say.  I am amazed at the remarks concerning Jen and her parenting style.  Ironically it always seems that those without children are the experts.  Will is acting like a typical 3 year old.  He wanted cake.  In his little mind that settles the matter.  Jen didn't have cake.  She stated it (also, praising him for doing such a good job eating his dinner).  When he didn't get it - he fussed.  It wasn't even a "melt-down".  Believe me, if you had children you'd know that this was no tantrum.  Jen realized that after explaining it to him that it would simply increase his frustration.  She left him safely seated and ignored his whiny behaviour.  This was the perfectly correct thing to do.  He quickly got over his snit - because that is what 3 year olds do.  He is not in danger of becoming a spoiled brat (not that it's any of our business, whether they are on tv or not).  He is not in danger of over or under-eating or eating the wrong things.  Jen and Bill are intelligent, educated people.  They will not feed them a diet of macaroni and cheese, nor will they deny them a treat.  Like all older siblings when they are greeted with a new child, Will regressed somewhat.   Considering his little life up to this point I'd say he's doing amazingly well.   He isn't traumatized, he's not being ignored and Zoey is not being favoured over him.  They are simply being a young family - who have learned as all new parents do - "don't sweat the small stuff".  I am amazed that Jen is so involved during such a hard time in her life.  I wouldn't blame her if she took to her bed and let Bill and the nanny handle things while she is sick - but she doesn't.  She carries on in a way I know I couldn't.  To "snark" just for the sake of being "snarky" really doesn't accomplish very much.

[jodo]

Gee not sure how you know who does or does not have kids based on the profiles here and Will is 4 but will "letitgo" snark snark snark LOL

Edited April 4, 2014 by jodo

[LegalParrot81]

Gee not sure how you know who does or does not have kids based on the profiles here and Will is 4 but will "letitgo" snark snark snark LOL

Well, when someone posts that they don't have children, that's kind of a give away.  LOL

[Goldielocked]

Apparently there are two groups here watching two different shows.  One group sees a show with Jen as an argumentative, cackling, self-absorbed, cold woman who either feeds her children too much food, not enough food, food that is too healthy or food that is primarily junk.  She repeats what Bill says, demands to help the pediatrician assess her child and lets her poor husband wait on her hand and foot while she seemingly enjoys milking her cancer diagnosis.  A role that literally begs the viewer to "snark" and criticize, all based on snippets of life that are presented to the viewers in a short span of time.  The second group sees Jen as a loving mother who is doing her best to meet the needs of her growing family while trying to deal with having cancer and adjust to being the new mom of 2 toddlers from other countries.  The second group has been described as putting Jen on a pedestal and drinking the "Jen kool-ade."  To tell you the truth, if I hadn't started watching the show before coming to this website, I would think Jen was either a Kardashian, a Momzilla or one of the "Real Housewives From Wherever."  Maybe we need to have 2 separate threads, one for critics of Jen and one for supporters because frankly, reading all this negative input is offsetting and frustrating (speaking just for myself, of course). 

Edited April 4, 2014 by Goldielocked

[Madame]

Well, you have to admit, a dark psychodrama about a driven narcissist slowly destroying her family by pretending they have food issues and selfishly getting cancer must be interesting to watch.  Maybe HBO should look into doing something like that. 

I'm looking forward to next week, and Will bustling into Mom's hospital room with a bunch of balloons, all smiles. 

[MrMattyMatt]

I'm not drinking the Jen-Kool-Aid nor do I hate the woman.  I love the show and find it interesting and fun to watch.  They really are a wonderful family and are doing an excellent job raising the kids so far, especially with all Jen's been going through added to the fact that they are new parents. 

With that said, it's a reality show, therefore they are putting themselves out there for critique. 

[Everh]

I'm not drinking the Jen-Kool-Aid nor do I hate the woman.  I love the show and find it interesting and fun to watch.  They really are a wonderful family and are doing an excellent job raising the kids so far, especially with all Jen's been going through added to the fact that they are new parents. 

With that said, it's a reality show, therefore they are putting themselves out there for critique. 

I agree, they are putting themselves out there so there will be many different opinions.    I have always said, there would be no reason for forums or boards if everyone thought the same way.    

       I have said I think Bill is a natural at fatherhood. Jen, not so much, but that doesn't mean she doesn't love her children or anything else negative.  She, by her own admission is controlling, obsessive about certain things and extremely competitive.    When she calms down a tad I am sure she will find her groove.   And yes....I do take the cancer and all that entails into consideration.      Bill isn't perfect either.  He clearly does not, at least on the show do any discipline at all.    So, there are a few grooves he needs to find too.

      My biggest problem with Jen and Bill is that they are still doing this show.   These kids deserve privacy to adjust, settle in and not have a crew, cameras and hot lights staring at them.    They deserve a normal life. They don't need phony vacations and flying around to do publicity for the show.    So yes, I do question why these parents are still filming.  My personal opinion is a combination of wanting fame, the perks and the money.    I cannot think of a so called good reason to continue.  I am not "learning" anything from the show.  The reality ended a long time ago as it does with every other reality show that continues past the first season. 

 Will and Zoey did not sign up to be on tv.   What do you think will happen when they go to school?   They will be teased, especially Will for wearing diapers for so long and stuffing his face every chance he gets. They will nickname him ''cake''.   I cringed when I saw Zoey so terrified and crying when they got her.    And.....I don't care how small the cameras were....it wasn't right.     I would of thought Bill would of said.....ok, we are done.

[MrMattyMatt]

Everh - well said!   Let's also rememeber that they are in fact "Little people" and live in a very cruel world regarding that alone.   You know that Jen and Bill were and probably still are teased and ridiculed for being physically different.  Imagine how it's going to be for Will and Zoey?  These are the good times now for them.

[letitgo]

No one that they would go to school with would even know about the "cake" et al.  Because those would be other 3 year olds, and I highly doubt that most 3 year olds are savvy enough to connect Will to "cake"; or even be watching the show.  Some of the scenarios presented here are really not realistic.  Just because Bill is a lax disciplinarian, doesn't mean Will is spoiled.  Just because Jen is stricter doesn't mean she's favouring her daughter over her son.    My 3 year old took it in her head one day to bite everyone that came near her.  She didn't learn it from us.  Maybe she saw something on tv - I don't know, but her "Jaws" imitation didn't send her down the path to destruction.  She managed to grow up to be a lawyer even though at 3 she was biting everyone in sight.  And I don't think I was a lousy mother because I couldn't get her to stop.   It's called being a kid.  That's what they do - and you can be as horrified as you like, but ask any parent their experiences with toddlers.  They'll all have similar stories.  I'm just saying you can't jump on either one of them, as a parent, for normal toddler behavior and their handling of it; and Will's behavior is perfectly normal.    (As for how do I know that people with no children have rather rigid opinions of their parenting?  They said so in their posts.)

[Goldielocked]

I recall reading somewhere that Bill Klein said when they adopted Will that as long as he (Will) functioned normally with cameras around, they will continue filming, and will do the same for Zoey.  However, he added that they will take all aspects into consideration as the children get older and decide accordingly.  I may be naive, but I think the show will help the community get to know Will and Zoey and aid in their acceptance by other children. If theirs is a close knit community, I think they will tend to embrace the family and maybe even become a little protective of them.  I hope so, anyway.  I also think their advocacy in adopting special needs children as well as foreign adoption may encourage others to consider doing the same.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Goldielocked

[jodo]

Will is 4!

[Honey]

Will is 4!

Yes, we know.  Lol

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

Will is 4!

 

Well that makes a huge difference. 3 year olds don't watch TLC, but, 4 year olds do!

They are doing fine. My preschool grandson does not pay attention to any TV that's not PBS/Sprout, Disney or Nickelodeon. Although, he does know news enough to know he doesn't want it on. I think they are doing fine. They have taken on 2 international adoptions of toddlers. They are learning as they go along. They are doing the bulk of the parenting themselves, even with the cancer diagnosis. That is impressive to me. I have a chronic disease and find myself parenting from my bed. I should take a cue from Saint Jen and get up and go. They haven't had 2-4 years to get to know these kids and adjust to their personalities. They have had less than 1 year total and they all seem to blend well. They are calm parents and that will help them raise calm children. Good luck to them. I look forward to this show each week. As a past avid reality show junkie, this is the only reality show I really watch now and look forward to it each week.

[jodo]

Yes, we know but letitgo keeps referring to him as 3.  

Edited April 5, 2014 by jodo

[leighroda]

If the worst thing to snark about is eating habits and child rearing ( topics people tend to disagree on anyway) I count it as a win, I feel they are far more enjoyable and real than the goslings or kardashians.

[Lola16]

Yes, we know but letitgo keeps referring to him as 3.  

Perhaps it is because Will was 3 when this was filmed?

[letitgo]

I stand corrected.

[Jellybeans]

No wonder so many people have eating disorders. We can't seem to refrain from discussing other people's eating habits. Or, other people's so-called parenting "faults".

Not sure why Will's love of salads and green veggies are so interesting. I thought it was a normal meal.

[all4mom]

I'm don't know that Will "loves salads and vegetables."  It's what they put on his plate, so he eats it.  I also don't know why this show, although we can all agree they're head and shoulders above -- no pun intended -- the other reality TV families, is somehow off limits to criticism or differing opinions when the likes of the Duggars or Roloffs are crucified on boards week after week.  Jen has been deified.  And I never said I don't have kids; only that I don't generally like them...  :)  But I love both Will and Zoey, however; no complaints there...  And, of course, Bill...

Edited April 7, 2014 by all4mom

[jodo]

Yes salads and veggies are a great addition to any meal, he just needs more foods that will fill him up so he does not appear to be so damned hungry, he eats with a vengeance.  Putting yourself in the public eye will draw both positive and negative comments, goes with the territory.  

[MrMattyMatt]

They just posted a pick of Will and Zoey on the Little Couple Facebook feed.  I have no idea when the photo was taken, but they are in winter coats and Will looks like a over-stuffed sausage compared to Zoey.   Some toddlers just love to eat, but he may have some sort of deeper issue.  I am sure Bill and Jen are on it!

Edited April 7, 2014 by MrMattyMatt

[HelloDolly]

I'm sure they're trying to feed Will way too much, to make him miserable and overly fat.

I like my snark witty, not just mean.  It takes more energy and creativity to make it witty. 

[all4mom]

I don't know that anyone's trying to snark here; some of us just don't believe Jen walks on water. 

Edited April 7, 2014 by all4mom

[Goldielocked]

 

I'm also a Type A, and that's why I didn't have children -- I knew they'd drive me crazy and I wouldn't have the patience for it!

Perhaps this is where the idea came from that you don't have children?

[LegalParrot81]

I don't know that anyone's trying to snark here; some of us just don't believe Jen walks on water. 

I doubt many here believe she walks on water (that's rather OTT).  In my case, I have admiration for a woman who has been diagnosed and treated for Stage 3 cancer (since there are only 4 stages of cancer, that was kind of serious), had pneumonia while going through treatment as well as a total hysterectomy, and yet she still has been able to maintain a positive outlook.  Silly me.

[LunchBreak]

I'm not drinking the Jen-Kool-Aid nor do I hate the woman.  I love the show and find it interesting and fun to watch.  They really are a wonderful family and are doing an excellent job raising the kids so far, especially with all Jen's been going through added to the fact that they are new parents.

With that said, it's a reality show, therefore they are putting themselves out there for critique.

I agree.  I enjoy the show; they're obviously human but also much more relatable than most of the other reality "stars" out there.  Edited to remove reference to a prior forum. :)

Edited April 7, 2014 by LunchBreak

[formerlyfreedom]

We are happy to have you all here at Previously.tv, and ask that you leave any issues from previous forums at the door. Thank you!

[Lillybee]

What we have been seeing is what happened is 6-8 weeks after Zoey was adopted. In that time Jen has been going through surgery and chemo, so what minor missteps they have made should be forgiven due to  the stress that they, in my opinion, have handled with grace and dignity.

[jodo]

I feel bad for Will now.  Not about where he is or who he is with after all he and Zoey are both so lucky to have been adopted by a loving family who understands their needs, have a customized home to grow up in and have the financial ability to give them whatever they want forever. 

I know they wanted to repeat the situation with Zoey they had with Will which was to "superbond" with her as a family when they got home and they faced the additional challenge of her not warming up to Bill.  However, the circumstances were quite different and Bill was pretty much on his own, no Kate and likely Nai Nai and grand Baba were spending more time with their daughter.  I think Will got pretty much whatever he wanted in the way of food/sweets/cakes/cookies because let's face it it was just so much EASIER to keep the peace and keep him quiet for a number of reasons.  They had to keep him quiet in the hospital  and at home so Jen could sleep and recuperate.  Will is still such a sweet boy and caring but there is no doubt discipline took a few steps back.  He now has a "give me or else" attitude.  His thumb sucking is worse not better and he gets comfort from that and food, both just make him feel good!   

I hope with Jen's remission the focus can now be in moving Will forward with speech development, table manners and potty training.  Time to play catch up with Will before he hits school although I do hate to see him grow up, I love Will the way he is but that is not realistic unless they are going the home schooling route to lessen the issue.  I also wonder how they are seriously going to address his thumb sucking as this was a situation Jen started to deal with and then we saw no more of it and is likely an example of something taking a back seat while her health was addressed.  It will soon be time for his 6 month check up with the dentist!  And Zoey's finger sucking is the same comfort problem, both will need to be dealt with. What I have read is fingers/thumbs in the mouth can slow speech development, nuff said there for Will.  

Edited April 8, 2014 by jodo

[ElleBee]

Bill and Jen have mentioned numerous times that it's normal for kids who come from orphanages to be obsessed with food. Just because Will is shoving food into his mouth at every opportunity doesn't mean he's "ravenous"--it could be a leftover habit from the orphanage where you "get while the gettin's good". I'm sure Jen, as a pediatrician, is well aware of their nutritional needs and doesn't under-nourish her children. Their meals seem very well-balanced. As someone mentioned upthread, little people probably have to be very careful about their caloric intake, and indulging a child who's potentially an emotional eater (lingering from the orphanage days) wouldn't be doing him any favors going forward.

[all4mom]

Two observations: could they not have cut up that big broccoli floweret that Will was shoving into his mouth WHOLE?  I was honestly worried the kid was going to choke to death on it (which would make having a doctor in the house really convenient).  And yet Jen is all, "CAREFUL, DON'T HIT YOURSELF ON THE HEAD WITH THE HOLLOW PLASTIC PRETEND OTOSCOPE, ZOEY; CAREFUL!" 

 

And what is with Jen taking a breath in (ah!) after everything she says to Zoey along with the crazy eyes while directing the pretend appointment?  And then "DO YOU WANT A BANDAID, HELP MOMMY WITH THE BANDAID, YOU CAN HAVE A BANDAID, DO YOU NEED HELP WITH THE BANDAID?"  I really have to hand it to Bill (busy doing the dishes while Jen takes center stage); although I'm a woman myself, I have a fairly low tolerance level for Chatty Cathy motor-mouths, and I would at this point be telling Jen to stick a BANDAID on it already...

Edited April 25, 2014 by all4mom

[jodo]

That's exactly how Will ate when we first met him in China.  He shoveled all the food on his plate (rice, broccoli everything) in his mouth at once.  They remarked on his wonderful appetite.  It's not a new behavior with him.  It's not something Jen or Bill trained him to do.

At their first meal Will was at least using a utensil and not just his hands.  Eating all the fast finger foods in the US has taught him to eat more with his hands, burgers, fries, onion rings come to mind. 

[MrMattyMatt]

From this episode, you can tell Bill won't be the "bad cop" when it comes to the kids by passivley going off to do the dishes while Jen dealt with Cake-gate.   It went on a bit long, I'm just glad she didn't give in.

[car54]

I think Will is a pretty typical kid for his age--I don't have kids myself but I deal with them at my work and it seems like he is pretty normal in having a short attention span, and loving sweets and treats.   I can't get over how much Zoey has developed--she is pretty chatty for her short time in the US--and she seems to understand everything they say to her.    She cracks me up sometimes with how deadpan she is about what she likes and doesn't like.

If Bill or Jen try to get her to do something she doesn't want to do, that face, and then if that doesn't do it, she gives them the open mouth cry.   She's totally got their number, lol. 

I loved seeing Will at the pet store--him sweeping was so cute, and I loved him mooing at the big dog.   I'm not sure Zoey knew what a tea party was, but I think it was nice for her to get some one on one attention and I bet if they do this kind of thing regularly, she'll have many good memories of her mom taking the time to play dress up with her.

[all4mom]

But, MrMattyMatt, she did give in...  Although there was no cake to be had (did everyone hear Jen say "there's no cake" about 200 times?), the cookie was SUPPOSED to be a before-bedtime snack later, after "taking a break" from eating.  Instead, Will ended up going straight from the dinner table to the high chairs for -- you guessed it -- cookies early!  No fair, Jen, conditioning him to expect a dessert after he eats all his dinner (maybe he shovels it in just to get to the CAKE faster?) and then withdrawing it because he's now gaining weight (because of Nini's chocolates, among other things); give him some fat-free Jello!  I suspect Bill is afraid to get in Jen's way; despite the big smile, I'll bet she can pitch a fit behind the scenes when challenged.

Edited April 25, 2014 by all4mom

[Jellybeans]

"Cake-gate" is a ritual of passage for all kids. Never met a kid who didn't cake-gate at one point. LOL