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Sheenieb

S03.E03: Sparrow

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This was a strong episode, although, on a shallow note, Gabrielle had too much weave on.

 

Poor Lisa.  Regardless of what went down, no pun intended, she's a tragic figure.  She just couldn't see her accomplishments.  Too bad she didn't think to call Salli Richardson's character from last season.

 

I'm glad that Kara was the voice of reason during the suicide discussion.  The stigma about depression and mental illness in general bothers me so much. There's nothing wrong with getting help and taking medication, if necessary. The alternative isn't better.

 

I... don't know if MJ should've mentioned Lisa's molestation during her eulogy, but I understood her point about truth telling.

Edited by Sheenieb
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I enjoyed this episode as it gave a glimpse of Lisa's past; I was aware that she had issues, but it it clued me in as why she was in so much pain, and it somewhat explained her previous attempt during the first season.

I knew MJ would expose her abuse as soon as she saw Lisa's father. I don't know if it was appropriate, but to paraphrase Chris Rock (I think...correct me if I'm wrong), it's may not be the right time, but I understand, because the truth had to come out eventually.

With that said, shame on Lisa's mother for choosing her daughter's abuser of over her own child.

Edited by sereion
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That's the problem with sexual abuse in this society, there is no inappropriate time to expose it IMO.  People don't want to discuss, shush... not the right time.  Lisa's family was full of shit and MJ said she herself was full of shit because she deep down didn't want the hear the truth. My goodness, the girl is lying there dead, cold, and the bullshit just had to stop. He's sitting down there in the pew with mom and brother in tow like they were some wholesome loving family, no,no. The only concern should always be getting that truth out and getting the Lisa's of the world help, and they failed Lisa on that front in life, particularly the woman who brought her into the world, so now they will deal with it in her death because they can no longer shush it.

 

I surely believe that there is a right time and place for many things in life but not when it comes to molesters, not sexual abuse, sorry. As soon as one gets up the courage I don't care where, get it out, you might be able to save someone and of course save yourself or what's left of you.

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Even in death Lisa's mother chose her husband over her child.  Good for MaryJane for outing Lisa's molester for all the world to see.  Lisa's mother can no longer hide the truth.  She's sitting up there crying like she didnt know.  She needs to have several seats.  That repast is going to be AWKWARD.  

Edited by vmcd88
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Lisa's mother was such a f***ing drama queen.  Not crying at all about her dead daughter but crying about the shame that MJ brought to her family (saying this sarcastically) for telling the truth up there.  I had to LAUGH at all the tears.  Give me a fucking break!!!!!

 

This show gets too real sometimes, LOL (For me).  I am a wimpy crybaby.

 

Don't follow Gabrielle Union on Twitter if you cannot watch this show live.  She and all of her costars were giving away allllll the spoilers on Twitter.  That really pissed me off, they are unfollowed now.

 

I'm so attracted to everything about Kara.... the character, the actor, everything.  Hard to explain.  She's so cool.  

 

Lisa was really beautiful, can't believe she's out of the show like that....  I feel like  I hardly got to know the character through this show.

 

I guess it's really over with David now?  Like I even care anymore.  I miss Andre the married guy.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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By the way, it was good to see the actress Ella Joyce, she looks great. Even though I could have slap the shit out of Lisa's mother.

Edited by represent
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Well, the name of the show is Being Mary Jane, so she's going to be at the center of anything that happens, but I didn't find much to admire about MJ and how she dealt with Lisa's funeral.  I thought she picked the right word when she said she was "controlling" the arrangements.

 

**************************************

 

When she found out David discovered Lisa's body, she didn't waste a second scooting over to his house to quiz him about exactly what he was doing at Lisa's.  Having her curiosity satisfied about that, she got to turn her back on him and snub him on her way out the door.  Double points.

 

Later, right before the service, she got to unload a whole heap of David resentment on his head when, to me, he seemed to have the grace to realize that was not the time to engage in another round.

 

She even managed to work in a little "unrequited love" slam from the podium.  Geez, Mary Jane, could you give your David obsession a rest for five bloody minutes?

 

*********************************

 

I actually thought Mama Avery was the most clearheaded about Lisa's death.  It was harsh, but "She needed us to let her talk to us and we refused so we have some accountability in her death" is a good description of the dynamic we've seen between MJ and Lisa on the show.  MJ pondering all those rejected phone calls from Lisa gave Union the setup for an Emmy submission tape--covering some new MJ ground about humility and remorse and self-examination and maybe some reflection about her other relationships.  But no, the "Lisa's Suicide" story was just MJ scoring a few more points off David, laying down the law [to Lisa's mother] about how things were going to work, breezing by the family members who care for her:  standard MJ.

 

Finally, that eulogy.  "Let me tell you how I, Mary Jane Paul, am affected" followed by: medical degree, the molestation reveal, the end.  Really?  What happened to that Boys & Girls Club, the water well mission, her 500 baby deliveries and all her other accomplishments?  They could have gotten the molestation part in there and memorialized Lisa as a survivor instead of a victim.  There wasn't anything in there to honor the deceased.  Don't call MJ when it's my time to go.

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The show was already spoiled by the cable providers descriptions on the TV Guide, which described "Lisa's suicide."

 

Lisa's hair was fresh and moisturized up in the casket.

 

Did Lisa have a written directive that Mary Jane was to plan her funeral/handle her affairs? Because I can't see Lisa's mom/step dad being like "Oh ok, gone on 'head and plan our daughter's funeral."  They should've been all they could hypocritcally be and take charge of the family since Lisa's mom was legally next of kin.

 

I thought the "unrequited love" part was about Lisa, not Mary Jane.

 

Mary Jane eulogized Lisa as she saw her: a victim.

Edited by drivethroo
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I was wondering if Lisa had a directive about MJ handling her funeral/affairs.  And what about disposition of her estate?  I'm just assuming she must have had legal authority; otherwise I can't imagine that Lisa's mother would have allowed MJ to take over things. 

 

Mind you, I had no sympathy for the woman, sticking with the man whom she either knew or had a pretty good idea that he was molesting her daughter. 

 

However, I thought Mary Jane was just acting like a mean ass, who was only concerned about her own feelings and reaction to Lisa's suicide.  I didn't like her "I'm in charge" attitude at all.  Plus, wasn't Lisa trying to call her numerous times and she refused to take her calls?  Maybe she felt guilty about that, and projected it onto David when she slammed him.  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Mary Jane is mean.  Even the way she holds her mouth is mean.  I don't even care if she's right sometimes, but there's a way to treat people with respect and she tends not to do that.  I would not want her as a "friend."

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I don't know, MJ's hateful ways irk me, but I'm giving her a "pass" on this one; in addition to losing her longtime friend, she's still reeling from the David/Lisa fling. Adding insult to injury, the chances of Lisa and MJ resolving their issues as friends are gone with Lisa. Add getting in accident, being dangerously close to losing your job and being extorted. That's enough to make anyone evil.

As for taking charge of the arrangements, I wonder if Lisa requested that her family not be notified or at least ban the stepfather from attending, that could be why MJ was so adamant about not inviting him. If that's the case, those wishes should have been honored out of respect for Lisa.

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I agree that MJ was experiencing a lot of stress, but she's so self-centered, she doesn't seem to realize or care that others are under stress, too.

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After reading the posts here, I see I'm not the only one conflicted by MJ's behavior surrounding Lisa's suicide. I thought she was super bitchy to David while he was grieving himself. But I agree with Sereion, MJ had a lot of things happening all at once. Anyone would be overwhelmed and not feeling appeasing folks. And while I don't know if I agreed with her dropping that bomb about Lisa's stepfather at the funeral, I'm kind of glad she did it. What she said was right, the ugly truths have to come out.

Really sad to see Lisa/ Latarsha Rose leave the show. Thought she did a superb job with the story line.

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I just don't like Mary Jane anymore, as a person, and as a show. It use to be so good. The dating, the sex...but now she is just mean. Angry black woman. The way she went off on David when he was comforting her was horrid. She is just no longer likeable. I would not want her as a friend.

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I didn't see MJ as being mean to David. She was a woman who was finally done with him and his passive aggressive reactions. They consistently hurt each other, broke up and made up in vicious cycle for years simply because neither was willing to let go completely. With the betrayal, MJ finally felt done and took the steps she hadn't been able to take before.

He played a large part of the wedge between MJ and Lisa. If you listen closely to his exchange with MJ, he was quick to say "It's not your fault" with little to no acknowledgement of his role in this mess. Yes, I get that he was hurting, but he was wrong to squarely put this on MJ.

I'm glad this was a strong episode that addressed tough issues such as depression, mental illness, suicide and toxic relationships. Lisa was beautiful, accomplished and tortured. There are so many women like her and I'm glad it was addressed in a realistic way, not for laughs or with a quick 5 minute wrap up.

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I didn't see MJ as being mean to David. She was a woman who was finally done with him and his passive aggressive reactions. They consistently hurt each other, broke up and made up in vicious cycle for years simply because neither was willing to let go completely. With the betrayal, MJ finally felt done and took the steps she hadn't been able to take before.

He played a large part of the wedge between MJ and Lisa. If you listen closely to his exchange with MJ, he was quick to say "It's not your fault" with little to no acknowledgement of his role in this mess. Yes, I get that he was hurting, but he was wrong to squarely put this on MJ.

Totally agree.

 

Exactly, that's how I saw it and that line is what set her off. He's exactly the type of man her brother described. MJ is fine taking some responsibility with what went wrong with Lisa. Her point was, that with his line to her about "it's not your fault" whether he meant it or not, he sounded like he wasn't taking any responsibility. 

I'm sorry, but MJ spent years trying to be there for Lisa, her entire family did, but it's clear to me that over the years MJ has developed her own issues, she couldn't keep baby sitting Lisa. Lisa has made more than one attempt at suicide, you remember in I think episode one MJ running over to her house, I think she was trying to overdose back then as well.

 

It's not "evil" MJ's fault. MJ may be a lot of things but she ain't evil. Self centered yeah, but she has a good role model,that mother of hers. I'm increasingly getting tired of her ass, not MJ's.  That woman is so full of herself. She's as uppity as I don't know what which is probably why she walked into the damn glass door; her nose and everything else on her face is pointed toward the air (eye roll).  She carries herself like she's got something stuck up her ass and so does MJ, it's not endearing, but I also wouldn't call it evil.

 

Bottom line, the source of the cancer in Lisa's life came from the childhood trauma inflicted on her by her step father and compounded by her mother who chose the molester over her, not MJ.  

Edited by represent
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After reading the posts here, I see I'm not the only one conflicted by MJ's behavior surrounding Lisa's suicide.

.

I felt Mary Jane was being her same self-absorbed self. With David, "How are you" , her response ok with all being considered, BS.

Her friend was dead!

Her question to David "what were you doing over there".

David felt some responsibility to Lisa, he tried to reach out to Lisa.

Lisa came to Mary Jane's house begging for forgiveness. Mary Jane shut her down in the meanest way she could.

I think her attacking everybody was to hide the guilt she felt. So put blame on everybody else. Hurt everybody else.

Her "exposing" Lisa stepfather was for her. It did not help Lisa, If her concern was to "help" Lisa, expose him when she knew it happened, not at her funeral. She exposed/hurt her Mom and Lisa's innocent younger brother.

This was to  hurt people who in her mind hurt Lisa, without admitting in Lisa's fragile mind, Mary Jane was the most important person in her life. 

 

Gabrielle is such a good actress I find myself disliking her, because I see her as Mary Jane.

Lisa's death was so disturbing to me, I really had difficulties concentrating on any other show that night.

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Her question to David "what were you doing over there".

 

This is the root of what bothered Mary Jane about David/Lisa.  What WAS he doing over there?

 

Not literally, but what was really going on between David & Lisa? What was the real nature of their relationship? David's not going to tell, Lisa can't tell and Mary Jane will never know. 

 

So...you're supposed to be my BFF and you know I love this man & have this complicated relationship with him but you decide you're going to try him out for yourself? Gurl wut?

 

And you, you know this is my best friend, but you didn't care how much this might hurt or complicate things.  Did you just not think or were you trying to stick it to me while literally sticking it to Lisa?

 

And if we've all known each other for so long, and you know Lisa was interested in you but you didn't feel the same (and you know she's unstable), why did you play with her like that?

 

You could've gotten your kicks with any other woman but you chose to do so with Lisa.  Why?

 

Then you come to me at Lisa's funeral talking about some "Mary Jane, it's not your fault Lisa killed herself." Say whut? Weren't you a participant in that, too?

 

Mary Jane found out she was betrayed by her oldest friend, got into a horrific car accident that opened her face up for business, and is on the verge of losing her job because her face is sliced up.  But it's "not her fault" Lisa killed herself.

 

David needs to sit down and re-evaluate himself.  All of them do, but he's playing with Mary Jane like he played with Lisa and it needs to stop.

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David needs to sit down and re-evaluate himself.  All of them do, but he's playing with Mary Jane like he played with Lisa and it needs to stop.

The only reason David is playing with Mary Jane is because she allows him to.  She doesn't have to be part of this drama.  Plus, he's about to be a father with another woman.  (That's still the case, right?  I missed a couple episodes last season.)

 

They both need to move on.

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This episode made me so sad- I've never seen a suicide portrayed quite that way. I have to admit, when the scene began, I thought Lisa was just trying to make herself feel better about the whole David/MJ/Lisa mess. Once it became clear what she was really doing, gosh it was hard to watch. And her actual death scene was not pretty. Brave choice, show. I just felt that there was so much more story to tell with Lisa; sorry to see her story end now.

MJ felt guilty, but she shouldn't have. Even though she is as self-centered as they come, given the situation, her response to Lisa we're perfectly appropriate. She was forced to hear Lisa out when the brother brought Lisa to her house. MJ gave her scathing reply and walked away. Why would MJ answer Lisa's calls after that? How many times do you have to hear the person that betrayed you say they're sorry?

That said, OMG. David and MJ. I am exhausted with those two. Either be together or don't, but stop involving other people in your mess!

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MJ felt guilty, but she shouldn't have. Even though she is as self-centered as they come, given the situation, her response to Lisa we're perfectly appropriate. She was forced to hear Lisa out when the brother brought Lisa to her house. MJ gave her scathing reply and walked away. Why would MJ answer Lisa's calls after that? How many times do you have to hear the person that betrayed you say they're sorry?

I agree with every word. I felt that MJ was/will grieve over the loss of the friendship they once had now that Lisa is dead. But it is a friendship that ended long ago, or the closeness that they once had ended long before MJ found out about Lisa and David. That's why MJ asked her if she thought that had they met today, would they have truly become friends?  She's going to mourn a time when she truly felt like Lisa was like a sister to her and maybe regret that it ended with them being so estranged. She was even remembering the last time when she truly felt like they had a good time together and were close, when she talks about the last time they went shopping together. But she should NEVER blame herself for Lisa's suicide, neither should David even though he bugs me. 

 

IMO, any blame to be laid is squarely on the molester and that "mother" of hers. 

Edited by represent
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I don't get how David betrayed MJ when he and MJ weren't in a relationship. Girl code is just that, for girls. MJ needs to grow the hell up and realize there is no perfect man, no prince charming.

Was that Richard Lawson as the step father?

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It's very simple:

 

If you know your bestie is in love with some guy, has a complicated relationship with him, etc.  you do not pursue him, and expect to remain friends with your bestie.

 

The end. That's the code.

 

David himself is irrelevant because Lisa would've gone after Cutty Buddy or Sheldon or anyone else MJ was involved with.  That's why MJ's mom made the remark that Lisa could've had any other man she wanted but fixated on David.

 

This is not the first time Lisa has interfered in the MJ/David relationship because she's the one who informed David that MJ had his sperm in her freezer.

 

David & Lisa's encounter could've happened during an off period b/w MJ & David and may not have been important to David but it was very important to Lisa because she wanted to confess & explain it to MJ.

 

Did Lisa think MJ would forgive her & everything would be better? Maybe but probably not.  Lisa got the reaction from Mary Jane that she knew she'd probably get.  Lisa knew the friendship was probably over, and even more so after MJ lashed out at her.  Was it worth it? Nope, because she didn't get David & lost MJ in the end.

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David himself is irrelevant because Lisa would've gone after Cutty Buddy or Sheldon or anyone else MJ was involved with.  That's why MJ's mom made the remark that Lisa could've had any other man she wanted but fixated on David.

I do agree with this because Lisa was mentally that unstable. You could tell by her rant last season in front of MJ and that other friend who I think is a psychiatrist but all three of them were in the kitchen and Lisa just went off. Her entire rant was about all of the things in life that MJ has and that she doesn't. Finally MJ said she was done because she realized that Lisa was just full of all this envy/resentment that it didn't look like Lisa could get past it. 

 

But on another note, I remember Lisa and MJ's discussion about David and in that discussion, it was revealed that David was friends with Lisa first, he knew Lisa first. He met MJ through Lisa, but he and Lisa were never a boyfriend and girlfriend. And I don't know if back then she was giving him blow jobs, maybe. But it was always friends with benefits for him. We don't know when that started, but they were never in a boyfriend, girlfriend relationship and MJ's argument was that how was she suppose to know that Lisa had romantic feelings for him. I remember that conversation.

Edited by represent
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I actually thought Mama Avery was the most clearheaded about Lisa's death.  It was harsh, but "She needed us to let her talk to us and we refused so we have some accountability in her death" is a good description of the dynamic we've seen between MJ and Lisa on the show.

Well said, candall. This was one of the first times--probably the only time--in the show's 2+ seasons that I actually agreed with the Mama Avery. She totally called MJ on the fact that you can't refuse to communicate with people about important issues then get upset when they make decisions without you. 

 

 

That said, OMG. David and MJ. I am exhausted with those two. Either be together or don't, but stop involving other people in your mess!

 

I felt Mary Jane was being her same self-absorbed self. With David, "How are you" , her response ok with all being considered, BS.

Her friend was dead!

Her question to David "what were you doing over there".

David felt some responsibility to Lisa, he tried to reach out to Lisa.

Lisa came to Mary Jane's house begging for forgiveness. Mary Jane shut her down in the meanest way she could.

I think her attacking everybody was to hide the guilt she felt. So put blame on everybody else. Hurt everybody else.

Her "exposing" Lisa stepfather was for her. It did not help Lisa, If her concern was to "help" Lisa, expose him when she knew it happened, not at her funeral. She exposed/hurt her Mom and Lisa's innocent younger brother.

This was to  hurt people who in her mind hurt Lisa, without admitting in Lisa's fragile mind, Mary Jane was the most important person in her life.

David and MJ are two sides of the same coin. I think that's what keeps drawing them to one another and why they're so toxic to one another.

 

They're both self-absorbed and self-centered, and most of the decisions they make are because of what they want and need, not the other person. Yes, MJ has been there for Lisa --she came to her house after Lisa's first suicide attempt, but after that, I don't recall MJ ever asking her how she was doing mentally or emotionally, not even when Salli Richardson intervened to remind MJ about Lisa's mental health issues. And yes, MJ knows how to  completely tear someone down verbally. Didn't she basically tell Lisa to kill herself in the last episode? Granted, that does not make Lisa's suicide MJ's fault. But I'm sure that wasn't the first time MJ had talked harshly to Lisa. Basically, MJ wasn't as great a friend as she wants to believe she was. 

 

And David? Getting a blow job from a woman you know is in love with you when you don't love her, and all the while, you're dating her best friend. (On-again, off-again, it doesn't matter). Getting a woman pregnant and living with her, but still trying to get some from MJ, knowing she still has strong feelings for you? And I agree with MJ's statement at the funeral: the "not your fault" should have been "not our fault."

 

All that being said, friends like Lisa are exhausting. Usually people with mental illness and other emotional issues need more help than you can give them as a friend.  Before the David reveal and their big blow up, MJ should have been encouraging Lisa to continue with therapy (and medication, if applicable).  I've been on the outside looking in at an MJ/Lisa/David situation: a good friend of mine with depression slept with her good friend's boyfriend because she (the Lisa in this situation) felt that the friend (the MJ, but nicer) had everything. And I was friends with all three of them. Awkward.

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