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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm opposed to the the kidnapping scenario because the only time the characters get to be relatively happy/at peace is during hiatus. 

 

I hate cliffhangers, but that Twitter + "cavernous space" thingy in the script Guggentroll posted makes me consider it. And dread it.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I have to say a big no thank you very much and goodbye to the idea of Felicity being kidnapped at the end of the season (which probably means it's more likely LOL). Felicity has been through so much this season, especially from an emotional viewpoint, and I'm just tired of the repeated knocks. Give the girl a break until October!

 

I do think the season will end on a cliffhanger though. But I'm wondering if it will be like a s2 finale cliffhanger where it cut away from OTA on the island to Oliver waking up in Hong Kong.

Edited by Guest
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kismet

kismet

(edited)

I wouldn't mind a cliffhanger as long as it is not a known kidnapping, because that is something that needs to be resolved if we know about it. But missing people for unknown reasons are fine with me. Perhaps they could reveal to the audience only that people who should be dead are now alive, or in prison are now set free. I would also take the reveal of someone we think is good is really bad, especially if it sets up s5. If only the audience is in on the cliffhanger, then the main characters can be happy & oblivious, so its the best of both worlds. 

 

I think the show has been pretty good with cliffhangers, especially since they have both the flashbacks and the present day threads. Only s3 was a little bit of a dud because they were wrapping up the first trilogy. I have enjoyed their pattern where they leave one in resolution and one with a cliffhanger. But both threads being left unresolved with a cliffhanger might be a nice change of pace, since I have a feeling the physical destruction of the city is not going to be how the season ends or at least it will be different from how its been in previous seasons. HIVE & DD have been more a mental chess game with TA than a physical match. I think we might actually get a positive/happy 423 at the beginning of the episode, so it might be nice to see the balance thrown off in few minutes of the finale.

Edited by kismet
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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 S01 I think it ended with Oliver and Diggle looking at the ruined Glades.

Just checked the transcripts

 

S1 ended on Tommy dying (at least as far as lines go)

S2 ended on HongKong flashback with Waller

S3 ended on sunset ride

 

it's quite possible that S4 will end on a flashback instead of the present day.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I'm okay with, say, the city council making Oliver interim mayor if Ruve is outed/killed.

 

I am also okay with  the season ending with Felicity kidnapped (or Oliver?) bc I'm tired of missing their happy times. But I totally understand why people would feel differently . I would strongly prefer no amnesia/brainwashing, though.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Felicity has been through a lot this season.  How about Diggle gets kidnapped instead...so then, Team Arrow and ARGUS team up to find him?  Maybe if Andy turns out evil, he will want to get Diggle to turn to the dark side.  It is the year of the Diggle.

Edited by ComicFan777
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

The cavernous space might have something to do with the flashbacks

I think this is the most likely scenario ala S2. I remember MG saying that they like to do alternative endings year-over-year so I'm fully expecting that because we got a happy, present day ending for S3, we're due for another not-so-happy, flashback ending for S4.

 

I have to say a big no thank you very much and goodbye to the idea of Felicity being kidnapped at the end of the season (which probably means it's more likely LOL). Felicity has been through so much this season, especially from an emotional viewpoint, and I'm just tired of the repeated knocks. Give the girl a break until October!

Yeah, I don't need them to make Felicity the big cliffhanger. Not only are you right that she's already been dumped on plenty this season, but also it would serve their purposes better to not make it about her anyway if they want to avoid the appearance that she's usurping Oliver in importance. I think the show is always going to default to telling us where Oliver is at the end of each season either in the past or present.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

They ended S2 with OTA in a good mood, but with a bunch of smaller cliffhangers -- Thea left with Malcolm, Lance had a heart attack, bad hair Oliver woke up in Hong Kong.

 

The cavernous space made me think flashback Oliver waking up in Russia, yes. But if 422 ends up with happy stuff in present time, I'll be assuming crash positions about a cliffhanger for the present timeline.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I would swear that the word in that script pic before as we CRANE up is future.  Therefore, I would think the passage reads something like:

 

Let Twitter explode. We blah blah blah, that we see when Oliver is rescued in the future, as we CRANE up..... blank in the cavernous space.

 

If that word is future - I think the last scene will be of the flashbacks.

 

Now of course that doesn't mean that present day will end happily.  But the truth is that a good or bad ending could make Twitter explode so that's not telling one way or the other.

Edited by nksarmi
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Well those who called Ruve winning and Laurel being offered the DA position were 100% right.  I wonder with 48% of the write in votes if something will happen to Ruve and Oliver will be mayor by the end of the season.

 

I can decide if it would be more fun seeing Oliver play mayor and GA in season five or seeing Ruve stay on as the evil mayor next season.

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looptab

looptab

Why on Earth did they assemble the idol back???

Also, LOL at it being the same idol of the flashbacks. And of course Oliver would wait until a convenient time to tell, haha.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Why on Earth did they assemble the idol back???

Also, LOL at it being the same idol of the flashbacks. And of course Oliver would wait until a convenient time to tell, haha.

I loved Laurel's comment about Oliver not liking it talk about Lian Yu. LIke...of course he doesn't? Haha.

Reassembling the idol is some next-level plot convenient idiocy. Yikes.

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looptab

looptab

I loved Laurel's comment about Oliver not liking it talk about Lian Yu. LIke...of course he doesn't? Haha.

Reassembling the idol is some next-level plot convenient idiocy. Yikes.

Haha,I was about to make another post to comment on that. There's a line missing, Oliver said something like

'...and that's why I never talked about it with you.'

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

I loved Laurel's comment about Oliver not liking it talk about Lian Yu. LIke...of course he doesn't? Haha.

Reassembling the idol is some next-level plot convenient idiocy. Yikes.

ugh I hated it! that line was stupid - they should have used like and not love & per usual KC delivery was wayyy off the mark. she sounded as if she was resenting him for not sharing this super traumatic experience with her. Tonight is going to be super sweet!

Edited by foreverevolving
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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

Thea's "shocker" made me laugh. A younger sister is there to make sassy comments on her older siblings.

So the offer is from Ruve! I was wrong and I want to sit the reviewers down and ask them if they understood she is evil so getting a job offer from her isn't something positive lol.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Ok Laurel's line is a little oddly worded but the snarky sentiment is 100% deserved.  I mean, come on - I get it - life altering, traumatic experience, yada, yada, yada - but Oliver really does have a tendency to withhold information about the island that would be important until plot dictates that he reveal it.  They should have a sit down with him and asked about all the special drugs, relics, and otherwise life endangering shit he encountered on the island and make a reference accordion so they can just look stuff up anytime something weird happens in the city.  In fact, considering he drove off into the sunset with Felicity last season - I'd say this is WAY overdue.

 

And also, I noticed he didn't follow up that little reveal with information about what he saw the idol actually DO. 

 

The thing that eats at me from season two was that Oliver so didn't want to talk about the island that he never came clean with his mom and sister about why he knew Slade was dangerous.  I know it was for plot but it seems so selfish and uncaring and stupid.  That only got worse when he couldn't remember that there was a mirikuru cure until the city was facing super solders and poor Roy had killed a cop when he was out of his mind. 

 

There really are ways to write around this stuff without making Oliver look so bad.

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quarks

quarks

I don't mean to be nitpicky or anything, but why is Andy describing Malcolm Merlyn as "the head of the League of Assassins," instead of "that psychotic mass murderer who killed 500 people? I thought he was dead!"  The first was a temporary position that lasted less than a year. The second is still true!

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I don't mean to be nitpicky or anything, but why is Andy describing Malcolm Merlyn as "the head of the League of Assassins," instead of "that psychotic mass murderer who killed 500 people? I thought he was dead!"  The first was a temporary position that lasted less than a year. The second is still true!

because the show likes to pretend that never happened and that MM is just misunderstood?

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)

I don't mean to be nitpicky or anything, but why is Andy describing Malcolm Merlyn as "the head of the League of Assassins," instead of "that psychotic mass murderer who killed 500 people? I thought he was dead!"  The first was a temporary position that lasted less than a year. The second is still true!

Since Andy was "dead" when the Undertaking happened, I'm not that particular about him keeping up with affairs in Starling City. Since Darhk knew about the League and about Malcolm, and Andy seems to be higher up in the soldiers of HIVE, he probably knows Malcolm from that. Or at least that's how I rationalized it.

Edited by way2interested
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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

Since Oliver confirmed that it is the same mask, I am surprised that it didn't occur to Oliver before 4.15 that DD might have had a totem channeling his powers just like Reiter much earlier in the season.  I mean how many guys did he see in his past with the same magic powers...I would have thought he might consider looking for the source of DD's powers since he's seen that kind of magic before...unless DD's magic is pretty common in the mystical world, I guess.

Edited by ComicFan777
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Since Oliver confirmed that it is the same mask, I am surprised that it didn't occur to Oliver before 4.15 that DD might have had a totem channeling his powers just like Reiter much earlier in the season.  I mean how many guys did he see in his past with the same magic powers...I would have thought he might consider looking for the source of DD's powers since he's seen that kind of magic before.

This is the same guy/show that new all about Mirakuru and it's cure and never said anything until the last 5-6 episodes of the season.  It's their Standard Operating Procedure, 

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way2interested

way2interested

This is the same guy/show that new all about Mirakuru and it's cure and never said anything until the last 5-6 episodes of the season.  It's their Standard Operating Procedure, 

Yeah, it's part of the reason why I wish that it was Diggle or Felicity who would have commented "Shocker," since this is the exact same position they were two years ago, but Diggle is concerned about his brother, Felicity's not in the cave, and Thea's the type to say it, even though it does kind of make her look like a hypocrite with Oliver's secret-keeping at this point.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Those two clips just lost me most of my excitement about the episode.  The fact that the write-ins for Oliver were 48% when he wasn't even running shows just how much of an idiot he is, if Laurel is the DA why wouldn't she oversee DD's case anyway, and the lair sessions without Felicity were kind of boring.  Also they're all idiots for putting the magic totem back together.  Meh.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Not watching any sneak peeks this week but reassembling that totem has to be the most stupid thing they've done and that's saying a lot.

 

I'm assuming they had to find a way to restore power to DD but it would have been better if Malcolm broke in and stole the pieces and put it back together himself. 

 

Haha I can't. So dumb.

Edited by Guest
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tarotx

tarotx

Seems Oliver has the island blocked in his brain. Which is divided into little compartments. Or he has the Island memories mixed with other sections. It's hard for Oliver to rummage through everything finding the memories that might help. He eventually does but sometimes too late....

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nksarmi

nksarmi

Maybe that's the "repercussion" of Felicity not being on the Team-- she's not there to tell everyone that they're being dumbasses for reassembling the totem.

 

I am honestly surprised Oliver survived the months without her before she joined the team.  He truly is the king of dumbasses.

 

As to how he survived the island before hand, well people like Shado, Slade before he went evil, Mateo/Tatsu, and even Constantine seem to be helping him with that.

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tarotx

tarotx

(edited)

Maybe Oliver was bored and frustrated because Felicity left and the idol was pinging his memory so he reassembled it?

 

 

 

....Oops I seriously wrote he resembled >.<

Edited by tarotx
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catrox14

catrox14

What the hell is that line from Laurel about not talking about the island?  JFC. The fact is that Oliver doesn't owe her any fucking explanations, That's the entitled asshole Laurel that I have hated since ep1.  Nice bookend. 

 

Can't wait for her to be gone

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Evil guy lost his magic once the creepy totem was destroyed..sure, we should reassemble it and put it on display in a nice case.

Edited by looptab
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Even if he was bored, how idiotic is to reassemble the way two bad guys channeled their evil magic?  Also, I want to know who is so good at puzzles that they could put that together again.

 

Why is Diggle surprised that MM is working with HIVE?  Oliver knows that Malcolm took William from his house and gave him to DD.  That's a stupid secret to keep from his Team.

 

Also, I don't trust Andy's "What shall I do?"  Pure manipulation of Diggle.

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catrox14

catrox14

Amen to this! After The Walking Dead Season finale I'm not in a mood for another anger inducing Cliffhanger

 

I don't mind a cliffhanger as long as it's a GOOD cliffhanger.  TWD was a shitty cliffhanger. IMO the end of s2 was a good Arrow cliffhanger.

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Chaser

Chaser

The DA offer would probably have more of an impact of they spent time on Laurel as an ADA.

We went back and forth a few times this season on what she actually was.

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