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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Guest

Guest

I have to admit though, none of the reactions to Sara's death got to me so I have to wonder what's gonna be different this time. Maybe PB? Quentin didn't find out about Sara until months later so that might be what's different. It all depends, I guess.

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I didn't even cry when Sara died, mostly because I was so pissed off that just turned off the tv and walked away. However I think I teared up when Buffy's mom died. 

I cry really easily at TV and movie stuff but yeah, I was too mad to cry over Sara, not until the next episode when Felicity was cleaning her body and then I only teared up. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

I didn't even cry when Sara died, mostly because I was so pissed off that just turned off the tv and walked away. However I think I teared up when Buffy's mom died. 

You know, that might have gotten me, too, and I didn't even like Joyce. But man, SMG KILLED that episode. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

From the GATV review posted in Spoilers Only:

 

 

Finally… prepare tissues, because even if you think you’re prepared for what’s coming on the episode, airing Wednesday night on The CW, you’re not. And that’s all I’m going to say, for fear that I’ll say too much. Great performances all around. While I don’t want to see a character dying every week, the stakes are raised in such a way that if Episodes 19-23 are this good, Arrow will definitely come out as the series so many of us fell in love with.

I'm a little bit suspicious at the neutral/chipper tone considering it's GATV. I'm not doubting who's in the grave, but I wonder what else happens that makes him so optimistic about the rest of the season.

Edited by lemotomato
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm a little bit suspicious at the neutral/chipper tone considering it's GATV. I'm not doubting who's in the grave, but I wonder what else happens that makes him so optimistic about the rest of the season.

 

He did tweet something about a GA storyline where E2 BC comes to E1, so with The Flash filming, maybe he thinks that's happening and isn't getting too upset over this? IDK.

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Midnight Lullaby

Midnight Lullaby

From the GATV review posted in Spoilers Only:

 

I'm a little bit suspicious at the neutral/chipper tone considering it's GATV. I'm not doubting who's in the grave, but I wonder what else happens that makes him so optimistic about the rest of the season.

Dude thinks BC from Earth 2 is coming from the Flash to Arrow in S5. That's what he thinks will happen. I wouldn't blame the episode for his optimism.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

You know, that might have gotten me, too, and I didn't even like Joyce. But man, SMG KILLED that episode. 

 

I think it was probably the reactions from all the other characters and how they kept the episode focused on death and what it means to lose somebody that got to me. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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He did tweet something about a GA storyline where E2 BC comes to E1, so with The Flash filming, maybe he thinks that's happening and isn't getting too upset over this? IDK.

That or he's playing the PR game in order to keep getting invites/interviews/etc

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Dude thinks BC from Earth 2 is coming from the Flash to Arrow in S5. That's what he thinks will happen. I wouldn't blame the episode for his optimism.

I bet you're right.  His dream come true.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Probably the most honest tweet lol

 

 

 

Sydney Bucksbaum ‏@SydneyBucksbaum  2m2 minutes ago
Just got home after watching this week's #Arrow. It's a big one. I have a lot of thoughts. Some good, some bad. Hmmmmm...
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Eleven-Fifty-Nine” also does a good job of more solidly tying in the flashbacks to the events in the present day. I admit, I’m not the biggest fan of the flashbacks and would be totally okay with it if they were gone in Season 5, but I will say that the parallels in this one are the best they’ve been since perhaps Season 2.


 

 

So maybe Poppy dies too??!!! 

 

That or he's playing the PR game in order to keep getting invites/interviews/etc

Ding, ding, ding.  In the Smallville days I got the feeling he was a company player more than anything.  He saw the way the wind blew and that's the way he went. Still might not like parts of the show, but I don't he's a die hard BC fan. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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Oh, definitely. But I do think that E2 BC coming to E1 is something he believes/hopes is happening.

Before the screening sure, if he stayed for the Q&A he should know better. Even if it was off the record/hold until post Flash 222, he should already know KC is gone, gone, gone.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Before the screening sure, if he stayed for the Q&A he should know better. Even if it was off the record/hold until post Flash 222, he should already know KC is gone, gone, gone.

 

I only suggested it because I wasn't sure how explicit they get in postmortems - if they'd spell out that Katie was completely let go from her contract thereby dashing any hopes that she'd be back in any capacity, or if they'd comment on Laurel's death being permanent but somehow leaving hope for someone who wanted to believe that she'd be back in some other way (not intentionally, just by virtue of the way they answer questions wrt the character vs. the actor). 

 

If they flat-out told people Katie won't be back in any capacity, then yes, I'm sure he's going to keep his review neutral in order to keep his access. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I still can't believe that TA just shrugged their shoulders and did nothing to stop Ruve' from winning just because he didn't want to look like a flip flopper.  Between the coercion to quit and Ruve' being in bed with DD, the very least they should have done is spread some rumors. 

Yeah, that was such a stupid reason that I'm convinced they were being dumb on purpose, to set up what's going happen in 418. Oliver, the city was going to elect your mother who was on trial for mass murder. And that was two disasters ago! No once cares if you flip flop!

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Guest

Guest

If #Poppy does die in 418, she has to be the most pointless character in the history of characters. What even did she achieve? What was her purpose? LOL. We'll never know...

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Guest

Guest

Well, I'm pretty sure they won't be bringing Black Siren to Arrow now.

 

Also I have never heard of Black Siren before. Is she good or evil?

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Chaser

Chaser

There goes Flash doing the Black Canary right. LOL

 

I wasn't expecting anything negative from GATV prior to the episode airing. I think the negativity will come later. Snide, little tweets.

 

I am curious about the part about Oliver having moments that offer clarity to his relationships. What does that mean?

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Per TV Line:

 

In the parallel universe, Laurel takes on the moniker of Black Siren, who was a member of the Justice Society and the mother of Dinah Laurel Lance in the DC Comics canon.

 

That doesn't sound evil to me.  It does sound like they are retconning her into the original BC position rather than the offspring of.  Maybe Laurel has a secret kid out there none of us know about.  (And I just threw up a little in my mouth since it would likely be Oliver 's from before the Gambit)

Edited by BkWurm1
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Chaser

Chaser

I thought that was the description of the Black Siren, but not necessarily the version KC is playing . If that makes sense.

 

I took MG's interview about the death to mean it's permanent and we won't be seeing KC again on Arrow. I think he mentioned the time travel and the other worlds because they will be addressing those issues as well. I think it means something that they didn't go the death route with CH because they want the possibility of bring the actor back, that kind of implies to me that they are going with the death now to close the door on KC returning.

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bethy

bethy

Laurel might get to say something like Tommy did. Moira's "close your eyes baby" got me.

 

Except that was something Susanna Thompson ad-libbed, wasn't it? I'm not sure either the writers or KC could pull that off.

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tarotx

tarotx

Except that was something Susanna Thompson ad-libbed, wasn't it? I'm not sure either the writers or KC could pull that off.

ST did ad lib that so you're probably right.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Black Siren. Well that's good, that means no Earth 2 Laurel showing up. She's gone for good. This does seem like they were running out her contract or a deal they made so she'd go quietly. 

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tarotx

tarotx

So now comic Laurel fans are willing to allow an Alternate version of Dinah-just because her name is Dinah-SMH. It's annoying. I rather have my alternate Version White Canary ;)

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't care about Earth 1 Laurel so I care even less about Earth 2 Laurel. I would rather find out if anyone else has a counterpart, Earth 2 Diggle, Felicity, Sara, Thea and Roy. Oliver's dead so it would be interesting to see if they all still know each other like the Earth 2 Flash people did. 

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GirlvsTV

GirlvsTV

You know, that might have gotten me, too, and I didn't even like Joyce. But man, SMG KILLED that episode.

Oh man, I was blubbering mess like every 5 mins during The Body. I've never actually been able to watch it again though.

Since I don't really care for the character that's dying, I'm not sure if I'm emotionally invested enough to get weepy. Tbh, I feel pretty disconnected from all of the characters except Felicity right now. I don't dislike Quentin as much as I did at the end of season 3, but I don't really care about him either. He's just kind of - there.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

I don't care about Earth 1 Laurel so I care even less about Earth 2 Laurel. I would rather find out if anyone else has a counterpart, Earth 2 Diggle, Felicity, Sara, Thea and Roy. Oliver's dead so it would be interesting to see if they all still know each other like the Earth 2 Flash people did. 

Naaa in my head canon Oliver is totally still Alive on Earth-2, taken into custody by ARGUS to be trained and be part of Task force X where he met cute, but super scary!, goth hacker named Felicity-Oracle-Smoak; together they are going to bring down the organization that has them locked up against their will, while trying to save innocent people... or they are both evil and they are causing a bunch load of chaos!- It can go other way.

I may have read too many AU fanfics. But seriously they can just take the deadshot/Harley romance from the comics.. EBR and SA would so have fun playing their evil & crazy counterparts!

Edited by foreverevolving
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wonderwall

wonderwall

Naaa in my head canon Oliver is totally still Alive on Earth-2, taken into custody by ARGUS to be trained and be part of Task force X where he met cute, but super scary!, goth hacker named Felicity-Oracle-Smoak; together they are going to bring down the organization that has them locked up against their will, while trying to save innocent people... or they are both evil and they are causing a bunch load of chaos!- It can go other way.

I may have read too many AU fanfics. But seriously they can just take the deadshot/Harley romance from the comics.. EBR and SA would so have fun playing their evil & crazy counterparts!

Someone write this fic :p

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nksarmi

nksarmi

I cannot wait until Wednesday and I SO hope this isn't a cliff hanger. Just let it be done and let's move on!

 

Regarding Echo becoming a regular - eh I kind of don't mind.  But I also haven't googled Mr. Terrific to identify exactly what he's like.  But if and Felicity are both splitting their time between Palmer Tech and the Arrow Cave (sorry Oliver) - I think it could work really well.  I mean, I actually think I'd like that a lot. 

 

In seasons one and two, I very much enjoyed that the show had a "day life." First Oliver had the business with Tommy, then Thea took that over and Oliver tried very badly to run his dad's company.  Laurel was only around in a non-vigilante sort of way.  It just kind of worked.

 

In season three, Oliver was nothing but the Arrow, Roy was nothing but Arsenal and on his way to handing that role over to Thea, Laurel became little more than a bad imitation of her sister, Diggle got married but really wasn't doing much but vigilante work....the only one who had anything outside of the Arrow cave going on was Felicity and unfortunately, her Palmer Tech stuff ended up mostly centered on her romance with Ray.  I disliked a lot of things about season three, but this might have topped the list.

 

Now we at least have Felicity sort of trying to run her company, having a semi on-going dynamic with her mom, Oliver was trying to run for mayor and Thea was involved with that. Laurel was sort of seen doing the lawyer thing this season.  And Curtis gave us a character who was interesting but not involved directly in the vigilante stuff.  And he added comedy which Arrow sorely lacks.

 

So if they are going to use Curtis to a) occasionally make a few jokes and b) allow Felicity to have a continued storyline at Palmer Tech (where the two of them bring awesome inventions to Starling City and the world) - I'm good with that.  I'm not saying I want Curtis all the time, but Malcolm and Paul B are both regulars and we don't get them all the time (for me - it's not enough Quentin and way too much Malcolm but to each their own). Perhaps they just bumped him up to regular so that they could secure him for a certain number of episodes as he works on other projects?

 

If he does turn into Mr. Terrific, I hope it's not until season six or something since that will almost certainly mean the death of his husband who I kind of like.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Honestly, I'm kind of glad there's little Felicity in the episode where Laurel bites it. Keep her far, far away from the death.

I don't know if we should be thankful (because Keto also wrote this episode and we all know how she writes Felicity) or annoyed...

Yeah, this too. #KeepFelicityAwayFromKeto2016

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Guest

Guest

I'm totally cool with less Felicity in the episode. I wonder if this means there's no Felicity at all?

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Chaser

Chaser

Well I'm bummed. I was really curious about that scene.

I wonder if it was an error in the description or if it was cut. If cut, I hope they release it as an extra.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

I'm half pleased and half incredibly worried that we don't know what's going on in the episodes after 419...

I kind of like that. There was an earlier discussion here about how by this time last year we knew nearly exactly how the rest of the season was going to play out. This year, other than the funeral in 419, we know almost nothing. I think I'm good with that. It's a whole new world. ;)

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I'm half pleased and half incredibly worried that we don't know what's going on in the episodes after 419... 

And even for 419, we just know that Laurel's funeral happens. Still don't know who the flashback funeral is for, or the identity of the new girl with Nyssa, or well, anything else in that episode.

 

*Jinx, Starfish35! :)

Edited by lemotomato
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

The rest of the season? Well, there's the funeral. Then there will probably be vengeance for the death. It sounds like there might be a flood too?

 

What are you guys talking about we know so much about the rest of the season! LOL.

Edited by Guest
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

 

The Felicity/Curtis scene mentioned in the “Eleven-Fifty-Nine” synopsis is NOT in the episode we screened

If it is Felicity telling Curtis about the downside and upside of vigilante life, it may fit better into the episode after the death.  I hope that's the case.Or at least that we get it as an extra in the DVDs.

Edited by statsgirl
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Guest
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