Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

You guys really think Quentin would die with so little screen presence? He has been barely used in the 2nd half of the season.

 

Absolutely. Laurel's gonna need some kind of motivator for something sometime soon.

[Primal Slayer]

I think near-death experiences in this instance only count if a visit to the hospital is required. And like others wrote, it happened pre-timeline switch.

Diggle hasn't been in the hospital has he?

[apinknightmare]

Diggle hasn't been in the hospital has he?

 

Nope, not yet. Just Felicity and Thea. And Oliver, soon, if SA's tweet about Oliver fighting for his life, and CR posting from the hospital set are any kind of indicator.

[Primal Slayer]

You guys really think Quentin would die with so little screen presence? He has been barely used in the 2nd half of the season.

Look at all the screen time Roy got when they wrote him off.

[dtissagirl]

These jerks are gonna put, like, 4 different people in mortal danger at the top of the hour, and then cliffhang it until 419, aren't they?

[Primal Slayer]

You guys really think Quentin would die with so little screen presence? He has been barely used in the 2nd half of the season.

Look at all the screen time Roy got when they wrote him off.

[NumberCruncher]

Eleven Fifty Nine. Definitely sounds like the death countdown.

Which raises another possibility. 11:59 is right before midnight. It could be the penultimate episode before the death episode which would match with the timeline in S2 when Moira died in the 19th episode.

[Sakura12]

I think they'd kill Quentin because these writers are lazy and afraid of being actual game changers. 

[Morrigan2575]

Which raises another possibility. 11:59 is right before midnight. It could be the penultimate episode before the death episode which would match with the timeline in S2 when Moira died in the 19th episode.

Moira died in 220

[ComicFan777]

In my head, I justify that it can't be Diggle in the grave because he just got his codename this season and they are still trying to fix the look of his helmet.  Guggenheim said that they had to work with DC to make Spartan be his official name in the DC universe.  It just seems like a lot of work to end it this season, so that's my justification in my head anyways even if it isn't really a good reason. 

[Velocity23]

If PB is leaving he is getting a big storyline. A civilian on the show will have much more build up to a death than a mask.

 

If anything KC is getting the Colton treatment.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Velocity23

[Ann Mack]

Wow someone did some really nice artwork for the "Code Of Silence" episode IMO>

 

 

So I wonder if they will be the ones around when and if Mrs. Darhk drop the kid news or is that happening in episode 14 or not? 

[NumberCruncher]

Moira died in 220

You are correct. I got my eps mixed up.

[ComicFan777]

I think that LL is getting a bigger role towards the end of the season because Wendy Mericle had mentioned that she will be temporarily taking down Damien Darkh.

[Velocity23]

Yes in 4x16 she takes him to court. Wendy said it wont be as Black Canary. But LL as lawyer.

[apinknightmare]

Can't wait for him to get sent to Iron Heights, the most secure prison in the world, where no one ever ever breaks out!

[Morrigan2575]

Can't wait for him to get sent to Iron Heights, the most secure prison in the world, where no one ever ever breaks out!

But no prison can hold Merlyn...FFS Show!

[lemotomato]

Trying to guess who dies based on the writers, but I realized that Keto Shimizu seems to be the go-to person for Laurel-centric and Diggle-centric episodes (which would also explain why they tend to be really lackluster, IMO). 

 

Keto wrote Laurel episodes "Broken Dolls", "Man Under the Hood", "Sara", and "Guilty"; Diggle episodes "Suicide Squad", "Suicidal Tendencies", "Brotherhood". She also wrote "The Climb", "The Candidate", and "Sins of the Father", which were not focused on Laurel but gave her big scenes.

 

In conclusion, it wasn't a very helpful exercise to guess who's in the grave, but it did remind me that I disliked everything Keto worked on.

[kismet]

If this is the Death episode, I wonder if 11:59 is the time of Death?

MG and Keto wrote this one so, it's certainly possible.

 

The fact that MG & Keto wrote it this episode, is promising that it might be her final one since out of all the writers. It seems Keto & MG are two of her major supporters.

Aww the title of the episode LL officially suited up was Midnight City ...

Another possible sign.

 

These jerks are gonna put, like, 4 different people in mortal danger at the top of the hour, and then cliffhang it until 419, aren't they?

It's a good idea... but these writers don't really cliffhang well, meaning there is little suspense in their cliffhangers. They cliffhang whether someone will survive their injuries or not... but we always know who the victim is. I can't imagine they would change up that pattern with this death. I think the episode will perhaps have multiple people (probably Dig & LL) who could die, but by the end will see the fatal blow, some bleeding and then cut to black.

[ComicFan777]

LL and Diggle tend to go out in the field together.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did a cliffhanger with them both fighting in the field, something happens, and then we don't know which one died until next episode.

[Sakura12]

LL and Diggle tend to go out in the field together.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did a cliffhanger with them both fighting in the field, something happens, and then we don't know which one died until next episode.

 

If Diggle dies saving Laurel, I don't know if any of us could handle that. She's already spread her death curse on Tommy and Sara. And since Quentin did say the magic words to activate it last season, it just might have taken longer to actually happen.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Sakura12

[kismet]

I think it will be Dig & LL's life in the balance in 418 because Keto & MG are writing it. But I think we will know who will die by the end of the episode.

 

But seriously, when was the last time Arrow actually wrote a cliffhanger that left two people's lives in balance? Most episodes are written to a conclusion. I can barely even think of any Arrow episodes that end in legitimate cliffhangers.

 

I'm asking honestly, I just don't see cliffhanger in these writers' wheelhouses.

[apinknightmare]

I think it will be Dig & LL's life in the balance in 418 because Keto & MG are writing it. But I think we will know who will die by the end of the episode.

 

But seriously, when was the last time Arrow actually wrote a cliffhanger that left two people's lives in balance? Most episodes are written to a conclusion. I can barely even think of any Arrow episodes that end in legitimate cliffhangers.

 

I'm asking honestly, I just don't see cliffhanger in these writers' wheelhouses.

They tried it in 3x22.

[ComicFan777]

Oliver's and Felicity's "death" episodes were cliffhangers over hiatus.

 

I think it will be Dig & LL's life in the balance in 418 because Keto & MG are writing it. But I think we will know who will die by the end of the episode.

 

But seriously, when was the last time Arrow actually wrote a cliffhanger that left two people's lives in balance? Most episodes are written to a conclusion. I can barely even think of any Arrow episodes that end in legitimate cliffhangers.

 

I'm asking honestly, I just don't see cliffhanger in these writers' wheelhouses.

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think it will be Dig & LL's life in the balance in 418 because Keto & MG are writing it. But I think we will know who will die by the end of the episode.

 

But seriously, when was the last time Arrow actually wrote a cliffhanger that left two people's lives in balance? Most episodes are written to a conclusion. I can barely even think of any Arrow episodes that end in legitimate cliffhangers.

 

I'm asking honestly, I just don't see cliffhanger in these writers' wheelhouses.

 

They did a cliffhanger of sorts in 3x22, when Felicity, Diggle, Malcolm, Laurel and Ray were all in the dungeon. (Of course, CW then aired a promo with all of them alive 3 minutes later)

[Ann Mack]

I think I would honestly do a lot of YouTube watching and Tumblr if they kill off Diggle. Right now Felicity, Oliver and Diggle are the main draws for me for this show. If his death is caused by him trying to save Laurel and then she gets to stand around arms all folded, hair flipping, stupid unnecessary eye winking, and bad acting for another season reminding everyone Diggle died so she could live man that would be hard to come to grips with for me. I need to find that interview were I think its Wendy who said it will be an honorable death or something to that effect. Whatever just don't kill off Diggle in any manner or way is all I'm saying!

Edited February 13, 2016 by Ann Mack

[wonderwall]

I just saw this on twitter and it made me laugh so hard :p Let me paraphrase

 

If Laurel dies in "Eleven Fifty Nine" it would be apropos because she became BC in the episode called Midnight City.

 

Definition of full circle lol

Edited February 13, 2016 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

Well, I think this is definitely the death episode. A little bit earlier than I had thought. So does that mean the MG/WM trip may not have been to inform the cast member?

In any case, I still believe it's going to be a series regular, so I think we're down to Diggle, Quentin, or Laurel. I think this latest round of Thea being on death's door takes her out of the running. Based on what lemotomato posted above regarding the episodes that Keto has written, it could be any of those three.

Honestly, as long as it's not Diggle, I'm ok. I like Quentin a lot, when he's not being an ass, but I'd far rather lose him than Diggle. I'd like to think it could be Laurel, but I'm afraid to get my hopes up anymore. Just...don't be Diggle. :(

So if this episode is the death episode, it will be interesting to see going forward if we can tell who's no longer filming.

The cliffhanger idea is interesting. Do they really want to invite that kind of reaction I wonder? I can only imagine, if we ended on a "who dies, Laurel or Diggle?" cliffhanger, what the social media reaction would be, and it would not be pretty where Laurel is concerned.

I think, though, that if we are really saying goodbye to a long running cast member, they would want to give them a proper goodbye scene.

[kismet]

I just saw this on twitter and it made me laugh so hard :p Let me paraphrase

 

If Laurel dies in "Eleven Fifty Nine" it would be apropos because she became BC in the episode called Midnight City.

 

Definition of full circle lol

I agree, I think that is what I thought @velocity23 was referencing earlier.  The circle must be completed.

[dtissagirl]

Well, I think this is definitely the death episode. A little bit earlier than I had thought. So does that mean the MG/WM trip may not have been to inform the cast member?

It could just be that the death episode isn't that actor's last episode.

[Orion]

My husband is a police officer so I immediately thought 11-59 which is an 11 radio code for attention: high hazard or security check.

It could be this is the episode that ends with everyone in danger.

[Velocity23]

Charlotte most likely wont be in 4x18. She just posted a pic and tagged LA Airport.

[kismet]

They did a cliffhanger of sorts in 3x22, when Felicity, Diggle, Malcolm, Laurel and Ray were all in the dungeon. (Of course, CW then aired a promo with all of them alive 3 minutes later)

 

 

They tried it in 3x22.

 

 

Oliver's and Felicity's "death" episodes were cliffhangers over hiatus.

Thanks for responding! For me*** (imo, not the official definition) *** those really aren't cliffhangers, because we knew they weren't gonna kill off the entire cast, the lead actor or his major love interest (not with BMD still pending). There was no suspense in those endings, I knew nobody really died. The OQ cliff fall was shocking, but it wasn't for me a cliffhanger.

 

But perhaps they might toy with idea of an actual cliffhanger this year. We know that this death is going to stick and so there are some actual consequences. And they have been hyping it do much, perhaps they will try to pull off a a final who is in the grave moment. I will be shocked if they are actually able to pull it off.

 

I do like @starfish35's idea of giving the character a proper goodbye, but they could do that in 419.

 

***Edited - after @dtissagirl's post, technically they count as cliffhangers per definition. I guess for me I just think of cliffhangers in modern TV as a little different in execution. Because there should be some suspense in either the dilemma or the peril. So perhaps, I just expect better cliffhangers. By definition, Arrow has had cliffhangers, they've just been pretty basic.

Edited February 13, 2016 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

Cliffhanger just means a protagonist has been left at peril, or at a dilemma -- which can be moral or emotional, not just physical danger -- at the end of an episode, to be resolved in the next episode. That's it. Whether you can solve it before the next episode doesn't stop it being the narrative device named "cliffhanger".

Season 3 ended pretty much every episode [except the finale] with a cliffhanger.

Edited February 13, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

It's a little weird just how much it's pointing to Laurel. I thought I was going to have to twist things to make them work but I'm getting freebies.

Hey look inspiraition quote about things falling apart. Means nothing....Hey look the Eps were in town! Changing her profile would be a clue....She changed her profile?! Could be anything, she still hasn't canceled any cons. She canceled Dallas! She canceled Dallas and so did JB, both for filming. Coincidently, after an episode that strongly implied MM was the actual killer.

Her Twitter activity? She normally likes tweets praising LL and BC after an episode. This time just two, both from people involved in the show. Looks like a decrease in enthusiasm.

If she is the one in the grave and these are signs, then I believe they may have just gone with a two week notice. They may have thought she would change her activity.

[tangerine95]

I really think Laurel is in the grave and imo they told KC a while ago.I don't think she just found out when MG and WM were visiting.I think that could be the date they officially told her for sure or gave her the script before anyone else or something but I'm not sure she didn't have any indication before that.

I know the she's safe because comics reason exists but I really think she's being set up to die and its all lining up in a way it never had before imo for her leaving the show.So i find it hard to ignore that just because she's BC which I don't think means all that much and when if any other character was being treated the way Laurel was,I would think it was them dying too.

[statsgirl]

So if this episode is the death episode, it will be interesting to see going forward if we can tell who's no longer filming.

If they're smart, they'll have the person on set filming flashbacks to leave us still guessing.

[Sunshine]

If Laurel is in grave peril at the end of 4.18 it could lead to her flashbacks in 4.19. She could be in a coma or stranded somewhere waiting for rescue.  Cue flashbacks sort of as a goodbye tribute.  She flat lines at the end of the episode.  

 

Now for the real question...Are they going to show a Laurel & Ollie love scene in the flashbacks?  Last opportunity for Lauriver shippers. .   

[apinknightmare]

If Laurel is in grave peril at the end of 4.18 it could lead to her flashbacks in 4.19. She could be in a coma or stranded somewhere waiting for rescue.  Cue flashbacks sort of as a goodbye tribute.  She flat lines at the end of the episode.  

 

Now for the real question...Are they going to show a Laurel & Ollie love scene in the flashbacks?  Last opportunity for Lauriver shippers. .   

 

"Fly away, pretty bird." 

[Chaser]

"Fly away, pretty bird."

Oh pretty please

[kismet]

I don't really need to see a Lauriver love scene again... fb or not. Although it would be interesting to see which love scene is more devoid of chemistry Lauriver 2.0 or Poppy/OQ.

 

I do feel like 419 will be recently departed FB heavy. I feel like rather than going the standard FB route. They will do a memory sequences, so set in the past but not FB. Which means a lot of Lances... I wonder if they will bring CL & Alex Kingston back?

 

I really think it is Laural in the grave. But if they bring back Alex Kingston, that will be the clincher for me, because it would make sense that her Mom would be at her funeral. I don't think QL's death would warrant bringing back his ex-wife, not now that they have DS to act as grieving loving partner. But LL, she needs her family at her funeral if they do intend to do a good job at saying goodbye to the character. A proper funeral scene is also how I know that a character is not coming back from the dead.

[SleepDeprived]

All the Laurel in the grave specs and KC's circumstantial evidences... I Want to Believe! So badly. But I've been burned before so I'm hanging on to my skepticism. Trust No One, tbh.

 

So, what I'm getting from the Final Destination theory is that I'm going to need Diggle to end up in the hospital next since it looks like those who've been hospitalized/spent time on Starling City General Hospital's beds/gurneys (Felicity, Thea, Oliver in 4x17) are all pretty much going to be safe from being the ones in the grave.

 

What's Diggle doing in 4x15? Maybe, Digg gets really hurt by the demolition guy in 4x14 (who is pushing Digg through columns of cement in the promos) and he's in the hospital? I can't believe I want Diggle to get badly hurt right now. I'm going to need Baby Sara to infect both Digg and Lyla with chicken pox or mumps or measles or something so they can be hospitalized already and escape Death's clutches, too. Come on, baby Sara. Do me a solid and save your parents, child!

[kismet]

"Fly away, pretty bird." 

Not sure if he would say "fly away", but I could see them organically having OQ say "pretty bird" in the show during his eulogy. It could be some metaphor or poetic words of goodbye, something along the lines of "So long pretty bird, who flew away too soon".

 

Or they'll just put "pretty bird" on that gravestone, whenever they feel like showing us it. It's organic and no one has to say it.

[tarotx]

Diggle will probably be said to be in Central city for the Flash and not in the hospital.

[calliope1975]

I was trying to figure out why the Ivy Town neighbor would be in town, and I have mostly nothing. Maybe invitations are sent out before Felicity dumps Oliver. I don't know, but then I started to think about why Oliver had told his fairly recent neighbors about proposing. I decided Oliver is much like SA. When he is excited about something, he just can't keep a secret. Everyone in Ivy Town probably knew he was planning on proposing. The mailman, lady at the grocery store, manager at Target. I bet 1/2 his journal is wedding plans. He has a Pinterest. 

 

I hope Oliver has to explain why the wedding is off.

[bijoux]

If Laurel is in grave peril at the end of 4.18 it could lead to her flashbacks in 4.19. She could be in a coma or stranded somewhere waiting for rescue.  Cue flashbacks sort of as a goodbye tribute.  She flat lines at the end of the episode.  

 

Now for the real question...Are they going to show a Laurel & Ollie love scene in the flashbacks?  Last opportunity for Lauriver shippers. .

  

They're obviously filming flashbacks with Quentin for 4x18, which I imagine also feature Laurel. I doubt we'd get FlashbackLaurel two episodes in a row.

I don't really need to see a Lauriver love scene again... fb or not. Although it would be interesting to see which love scene is more devoid of chemistry Lauriver 2.0 or Poppy/OQ.

 

I really think it is Laural in the grave. But if they bring back Alex Kingston, that will be the clincher for me, because it would make sense that her Mom would be at her funeral. I don't think QL's death would warrant bringing back his ex-wife, not now that they have DS to act as grieving loving partner. But LL, she needs her family at her funeral if they do intend to do a good job at saying goodbye to the character. A proper funeral scene is also how I know that a character is not coming back from the dead.

We already have the "love" scene from the first season. There's your sample for comparison. Don't invite misery.

As for Dinah, I would not be at all surprised if she didn't come for her kid's funeral. Also, I'm not really convinced we'll see the actual funeral. They already gave us Oliver and Felicity reacting, the others can react in the lair after the funeral.

[wonderwall]

So I think a good way to shock the viewers is:

Episode 18: Ends with Diggle/Quentin's lives in the balance (2 top choices among fans). People are going to freak out and try to decide between one or the other
Episode 19: In light of Quentin's life hanging in the balance, this might make Laurel more reckless in the field and try to kill the person who almost killed Quentin only to die towards the end of the episode while Quentin/Diggle survive *shocker*
Episode 20: The funeral

[kismet]

Now for the real question...Are they going to show a Laurel & Ollie love scene in the flashbacks?  Last opportunity for Lauriver shippers. .   

 

 

  

They're obviously filming flashbacks with Quentin for 4x18, which I imagine also feature Laurel. I doubt we'd get FlashbackLaurel two episodes in a row.

We already have the "love" scene from the first season. There's your sample for comparison. Don't invite misery.

As for Dinah, I would not be at all surprised if she didn't come for her kid's funeral. Also, I'm not really convinced we'll see the actual funeral. They already gave us Oliver and Felicity reacting, the others can react in the lair after the funeral.

I was just referencing @sunshine's post quoted above this quote about a final bone to the Lauriver shippers. Not inviting any misery :) Only love scene I want to see is between O&F but apparently we can't have nice things.

 

I'm just saying if they get Alex Kingston to come back, LL has to be in the grave.

[BkWurm1]

My husband is a police officer so I immediately thought 11-59 which is an 11 radio code for attention: high hazard or security check.

It could be this is the episode that ends with everyone in danger.

 

The police connection makes me again think it's Quentin.  If for some reason this episode doesn't end in death, I'd say it's still going to be Quentin focused. 

 

I really think Laurel is in the grave and imo they told KC a while ago.I don't think she just found out when MG and WM were visiting.I think that could be the date they officially told her for sure or gave her the script before anyone else or something but I'm not sure she didn't have any indication before that.

I know the she's safe because comics reason exists but I really think she's being set up to die and its all lining up in a way it never had before imo for her leaving the show.So i find it hard to ignore that just because she's BC which I don't think means all that much and when if any other character was being treated the way Laurel was,I would think it was them dying too.

I wonder if perhaps the visit from MG and WM was to tell the actors that weren't dying and whoever is in the Grave would have been filled in before.  Anyone recall one of our regulars visiting the Writer's Offices around four weeks ago?   

[Velocity23]

 

They're obviously filming flashbacks with Quentin for 4x18, which I imagine also feature Laurel. I doubt we'd get FlashbackLaurel two episodes in a row.

I think the focus of these flashbacks will be Laurel. LL basically only had Quentin and Tommy during the times Oliver was presumed death. So its natural that Quentin would be part of the FB also.