Spoiler Discussion Thread

[way2interested]

I think I'd be more comfortable if they gave Felicity Watchtower than if they give her Oracle. Because if it IS Oracle, then the single reason they're putting her in a wheelchair is so they can call her Oracle. External motivation like this is never a good thing in my book.

Oh man, I think you just put what I was feeling but could never describe into words, thank you! Plus, if (read: when) she gets better, the name will feel even more misplaced even if they use it sparingly. 

[jay741982]

The very shallow part of me HATES the thought of Felicity being in a wheelchair for the majority of the rest of the season as her legs and dat ass need to be seen lol. As for her codename I love the names of Athena and Firewall.

[chaos is welcome]

Firewall is good, but I still can't read it without automatically singing Pitbull's Fireball. But I could get over it, perhaps.

I like Oracle, but I'm not a comics reader so I have no pre-existing drama with the name. At least it seems to fit her character from what I've read. But I can see how the fandom may rage a little bit as a result of the name. That being said, people will have to get over it, let it go or move on. I just hope they don't keep her in the wheelchair forever because of her new name.

Overwatch is just down right ugly to hear. And sounds nothing like who FS is. There is no magic in that name. And I want FS to have a beautiful sounding codename that reflects her skills and personality. Speedy is like TQ in her personality. Roy is like an Arsenal. Dig can be a Spartan. And Canary had beautiful symbolism for CL. I really liked Arrow for OQ, but I realize they needed to add a color - still I think that Green Arrow is a dumb sounding name. Overwatch has no connection to FS. Plus its too military sounding.

Great, now I will be walking around going rrrrrrrrrttttt...firewall. da dada dadada. Da dada dadada.

Hilarious.

I am relatively certain that whatever they do with the paralysis sl will be half ass. Low expectations ftw.

[Morrigan2575]

I think I'd be more comfortable if they gave Felicity Watchtower than if they give her Oracle. Because if it IS Oracle, then the single reason they're putting her in a wheelchair is so they can call her Oracle. External motivation like this is never a good thing in my book.

I agree but I'm not exactly sure they're above that.

I can totally see the appeal of "getting" Oracle to Berlanti/MG. I can even see the appeal of DC giving that codename to Arrow's Felicity. For all I know there might be eventual plans to pass the name onto a new character (in the comics) now that Barbara is back as Batgirl.

That being said, I don't want Felicity to be called Oracle but, lately I'm inclined to believe that Berlanti got DC to give them Oracle.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

As much as I want Felicity to have a unique name, I can't deny that 'Oracle' has its petty perks. Instead of eating popcorn, I think I'd switch to apples for that episode. 

You'd probably want to eat at least four apples.

[kismet]

I might be binging ALIAS again… I blame JSevick… And the pull of Sydney & Vaughn, and the whole crew.

 

But in S1, Sydney refers to Vaughn as her Guardian Angel… Have we ruled out “Guardian” as a codename? Because Guardian has an “a” in it and could work for FS, since she does act as their Guardian Angel at times.

Edited January 2, 2016 by kismet

[Guest]

But making Felicity Oracle more than likely means her stay in the wheelchair will be a permanent one and no thank you. NOPE. Just no.

[AyChihuahua]

But making Felicity Oracle more than likely means her stay in the wheelchair will be a permanent one and no thank you. NOPE. Just no.

EBR is becoming too famous for her figure for the CW to okay that. I would say, really, the end of this season at the LONGEST. I think a more realistic longest is the board meeting. So probably at least four episodes (probably not 4.10, bc she'll be in the hospital, but 4.11-4.14 at least), not more than 4.18-ish.  I don't think they'll call her Oracle. I think Guggie specifying "a" was his usual dick trollbagging. I think they're going to use elements of the Oracle storyline and elements of the Proxy storyline, not the name, and it'll be rushed through and half-assed and kind of awful, but whatevs.

 

For me the real rage will come to pass if they make her infertile. The only reason to do that would be Oliver's manpain and specifically giving him an "excuse" for not telling her about the spawn. I don't think they'll do it, I think the wheelchair will be his "excuse." But making a female character infertile (in her mid-20s) for a male character's pain/ability to make excuses for his own crap behavior would ENRAGE me.

[BkWurm1]

I could live with Firewall, since it reminds me of taking a place like they did with Watchtower and making it a codename.  I do NOT want Felicity to be Watchtower.  That's Chloe and though I love them both, I'm not a fan of them getting lumped together as the same person.  Right now it's because they are both bottled blonds that are good with computers and dated Oliver Queen.  I do not want to add sharing the name Watchtower to that list. 

 

I did the looking up synonyms to Oracle and so yeah, Sage is on my list.  For some reason I also like Soothsayer if for no other reason than how it trips off the tongue.  The single syllable in Sage is the biggest point against it.  

 

I too hate the thought that they'd keep Felicity in the wheelchair if they were allowed to use the name Oracle so I'm really against it unless I can get promises that she won't be left in the chair.  I just don't think the show could write a good long term story for a permanently paralyzed character. 

 

I could handle Overwatch though I used to think it sounded very ugly as well but now it reminds me of Overlord and Overlord makes me laugh so Overwatch could do in a pinch. 

 

I like the idea of Angel or Guardian Angel as a whole.  Just Guardian sounds off to me.

Edited January 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

I like Guardian, there is a DC Comics character called Guardian, it's a male character. I don't know how obscure that character is but, i could get behind that name.

I think Guardian might have been suggested as a possible codename for Diggle at one point.

But making Felicity Oracle more than likely means her stay in the wheelchair will be a permanent one and no thank you. NOPE. Just no.

I highly doubt being named Oracle (if that happens) would mean Felicity is permanently in a wheelchair. This isn't a Comicbook, it's a live action show on the CW, no way would Pedowitz allow Arrow's "leading lady" to stay in a wheelchair.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

I think I'd prefer Guardian for Diggle over Spartan.

[wonderwall]

Someone on tumblr has a pretty interesting theory: 

"I would say if you are looking for iconic fights there might be a fight coming up with another Wilson…"

—  Stephen Amell revealed during the “Protecting Star City” panel. Wizard World (Louisville, KY)

 

 

They basically are speculating that maybe this is Adeline Kane-Wilson (former wife of Slade, current wife of DD? Although that might be too much of a coincidence)

 

[kismet]

I like Guardian, there is a DC Comics character called Guardian, it's a male character. I don't know how obscure that character is but, i could get behind that name.

I think Guardian might have been suggested as a possible codename for Diggle at one point.

I highly doubt being named Oracle (if that happens) would mean Felicity is permanently in a wheelchair. This isn't a Comicbook, it's a live action show on the CW, no way would Pedowitz allow Arrow's "leading lady" to stay in a wheelchair.

Well after reading up on DC's Guardian it is a better match for Diggle. Perhaps they may change it. It doesn't seem like Spartan went anywhere beyond that episode. And a new code name, might mean a costume revision which I could get behind.

 

But if they use the code name separate from the DC universe, I could see it working for FS. Still not my top choice, but it could work.

 

I totally cannot see the ARROW writers having the talent to write a paralyzed main character long term. Which is why if they do use Oracle, i can't imagine they would keep her in the wc. I just hope we are all right that FS in a WC is just a temporary thing.

[Chaser]

Olivers entire life is one big coincidence.

[wonderwall]

Olivers entire life is one big coincidence.

watch it happen :p

 

tbh I'd rather the show make his life one big coincidence than make Oliver into a special snowflake like they did with Amanda Waller... I still don't know why she spent so long dealing with him

[kismet]

Someone on tumblr has a pretty interesting theory: 

 

They basically are speculating that maybe this is Adeline Kane-Wilson (former wife of Slade, current wife of DD? Although that might be too much of a coincidence)

I feel like it is too much of a coincidence that Slade's former wife is now DD’s current wife. But its TV so perhaps… I do think if they are going to bring back a Wilson, it would be his child grown up. And if they were to bring back Slade’s wife they would not attach her to DD. Perhaps HIVE or some other criminal organization, but not personally to DD.

 

Plus I’m still partial to SA trolling the audience with his response and really all he is hinting about was a mean volleyball game. Or perhaps he finally wises up and replaces Poppy with a volleyball to talk to instead. It’s SA long desired crossover of Castaway & Top Gun, he’s just trying to mess with the audience.

 

Or maybe he is just sending coded message to Manu to get him to want to come back.

[calliope1975]

But I can see how the fandom may rage a little bit as a result of the name. That being said, people will have to get over it, let it go or move on.

 

Have you met fandom? :P 

 

Really though - I like Firewall and Sage. 

 

I miss Manu. I don't know what goes on bts, but too many actors leave pissed with TPTB. I don't really know why Slade would reenter the picture (other than his overt threat to come after Felicity) but Slade and Oliver's (and everyone else) scenes were so dynamic, I wish we could get that back. I can't believe we went from Slade Wilson to Poppy. What are these idiots thinking?

[chaos is welcome]

You know, I think Morrigan posted am interesting article about how they pay actors and their special guest stars, who often recur for a majority of the season. I wonder if that pays in for folks like bex. But gah, remember how annoyed manu was with the shado thing? There was a con where he basically said it came out of nowhere. That's got to be so annoying.

[statsgirl]

I think MG gave us the 'A' clue so that everyone would be thinking it's Oracle and then he can laugh because we're so wrong.  It would be the golden apple but not only do I not think DC will release it, Felicity will only be in the wheelchair for at most 8 episodes.  They shouldn't tag her with a wheelchair codename for ever.

 

I don't think it will be Watchtower either although it's more possible.

I think they might keep with the goddess theme and go with ATHENA. It fits everything that FS is on the show. And I could see FS turning to mythology to find her name, plus they have turned there this season for Dig's name. Per Wikipedia, Athena is the “goddess of wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, law and justice, mathematics, strength, war strategy, the arts, crafts, and skill. Athena is known for her calm temperament, as she moves slowly to anger [iMO, probably the only thing that doesn’t fit her perfectly]. She is noted to have only fought for just reasons, and would not fight without a purpose”. That is very much like FS to me.

The Oracle at Delphi was a shrine to Apollo.  While they can't call her Apollo, Athena is pretty close.  Athena also sprang fully formed from Zeus' brow (the ultimate single parent situation) and since Felicity was raised by her mother with her father missing....

 

I see the appeal of Firewall (protecting them through better IT everywhere) and Sage although for me Diggle is the team's real sage.

 

Frankly, they kind of suck at making up codenames. Guardian would have made so much more sense for Diggle.

[foreverevolving]

If we're talking greek Mythology maybe she'll get a different greek goddess name, perhaps Athena? she is the goddess of wisdom and military victory...

there's also "Aidos, goddess of the Moral Sense and teaching right and wrong choices"

"Eidyia, an Oceanid, sometimes sources call her "the goddess of knowledge"

[bijoux]

Athena was actually my first thought after the A clue. However, I'd really want a gender neutral codename to go with the rest of the team. Aside from Spartan, there's really no specific gender to any of them.

[Ceylon5]

Where there's Smoak, there's Firewall?  Firewall works on a lot of levels for Felicity, but perhaps because of that, it probably wouldn't be a good codename for a person with the surname Smoak who has a degree in cyber security - it's a bit too on the nose for anyone who's thinking about it (especially her father).  

 

Speaking of her surname, if/when she and Oliver get married, I really hope she keeps her name.  Felicity Smoak is such an interesting, unique name, and I'd hate for her to give it up.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Ceylon5

[wonderwall]

Where there's Smoak, there's Firewall?  Firewall works on a lot of levels for Felicity, but perhaps because of that, it probably wouldn't be a good codename for a person with the surname Smoak who has a degree in cyber security - it's a bit too on the nose for anyone who's thinking about it.  

 

Speaking of her surname, if/when she and Oliver get married, I really hope she keeps her name.  Felicity Smoak is such an interesting, unique name, and I'd hate for her to give it up.

 

When they get married I presume she'd hyphenate. Which then will prompt her to change the company name to Queen Inc? Hmm

[lemotomato]

If we're talking greek Mythology maybe she'll get a different greek goddess name, perhaps Athena? she is the goddess of wisdom and military victory...

Athena as a codename makes me think of Battlestar Galactica :/ 

[tv echo]

For non-comics readers, giving Felicity the code name "Oracle" would make no sense.  An oracle is someone who gives out prophecies, I believe (like the Oracle of Delphi from Greek mythology).  So given a choice between the two, I'd prefer "Overwatch" over "Oracle" because at least it would describe her role on the team better.  (I'm assuming the EPs want the code name to make sense to viewers who aren't familiar with DC comics as well.)

 

However, my first choice would be a different name altogether.

[Morrigan2575]

Oracle is also the name of a major computer technology company. Which actually would fit her role with the group as much as Firewall or Gateway (both an equipment type and name of computer company)

Honestly other than knowing DC Comics I hear Oracle and I think of the company.

I hear Gateway I think of a router and the computers that came in the "cow" boxes.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

I still love BEACON.

[tv echo]

Then why not just call her Apple.

[Morrigan2575]

Then why not just call her Apple.

Because Apple (the company) sues everyone for everything. They probably tried to trademark anything and everything named "Apple" including Gwyneth Paltrow's kid?

Sorry but I absolutely detest Apple's practices.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

This is interesting and dreadful at the same time. Please just put the kid in a corner for  time out and leave him and the mother there!

 

https://twitter.com/ArrowUpdates/status/683231747178377216

 

Seriously I never felt that lighter tone too much to begin with. Just saying.

 

https://twitter.com/ArrowUpdates/status/683231454013308928

Is this a reliable source?

[chaos is welcome]

Is it just me? Or were those Twitter posts in french

[bijoux]

:) They are.

[quarks]

Oui, French.

 

Arrow gets darker at the end of every season for the season finale.  I fully expect many extras will die to bring us that finale.  Possibly a few supporting/major characters as well.

[bethy]

Would someone be willing to translate for the non-French speakers? I recognized "fils" as son, right?

[apinknightmare]

Would someone be willing to translate for the non-French speakers? I recognized "fils" as son, right?

 

Oliver's son is gradually going to become more important, and the second half of the season will be darker.

[bethy]

Thanks. Also, *sigh*

[apinknightmare]

Thanks. Also, *sigh*

 

Take it with less than a grain of salt at this point - those "spoilers" aren't sourced. 

[bijoux]

I think it comes down to interpreting what's already known - the 4x10 promo coupled with that set video of GA frying a Ghost, plus WM divulging that the secret is going to start to unravel in the middle of the season (no shit).

[AyChihuahua]

It is really hard to tell where they go with the kid. I think both he and Baby Mama would have appeared at least a few more times this season until the backlash. I don't believe they'll make any big changes to their planned story, because I think they mostly don't care, but they might cut back on kid appearances if it wasn't going to be a major part of the story anyway but just a stall. Plus if they want him to visit them he can without the actors actually appearing.

[calliope1975]

Well, the first episode laid out that someone's going to die. That's not usually sunshine and funsies. I think TPTB may have wanted a lighter season, but I also think they have specific story beats they want to tell that don't lend themselves to that. I've actually been pleased at the tone of S4 so far. 

 

I'm going to have to get over the kid thing. Every time he's mentioned, my eyes roll, and I get irritated. Sigh...

[bijoux]

When is he going to visit? DD is a pretty big threat and there's no impending visit from Barry requiring his attention elsewhere.plus, it would be pretty insane to do it since Oliver has a target painted on his back, not just GA. I'm not saying that it won't happen, it's definitely more than possible on this show. I just don't think contact beyond calling Sandra from a burner phone and suggesting to take William to visit relatives in Australia for a few months makes a lick of sense.

[Morrigan2575]

Oui, French.

Arrow gets darker at the end of every season for the season finale. I fully expect many extras will die to bring us that finale. Possibly a few supporting/major characters as well.

Was the Star Wars reference intentional or am I just that obsessed?

Would someone be willing to translate for the non-French speakers? I recognized "fils" as son, right?

You're twitter app/site didn't offer to translate? Both twitter and facebook offer to translate for me. I don't recall if it's both the website and apps ...also could be Chrome.

Edited January 2, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

Was the Star Wars reference intentional or am I just that obsessed?

 

Very intentional, and YAY someone got it!

[Guest]

When they get married I presume she'd hyphenate. Which then will prompt her to change the company name to Queen Inc? Hmm

 

I'm pretty sure this is how the company will become Queen Inc but I have a dumb question. How can Felicity change the name of a company that technically doesn't really belong to her? Unless I missed something, Ray still owns it, right?

[BkWurm1]

Ray had her sign papers to legally transfer it to her while he was alive, but it seems those papers were only acted on once he died, but even though he is alive (even if he hasn't reclaimed living status) the transfer of ownership would still stand.

Felicity offered the company back but he doesn't seem interested and anyway, his plan was to give her the company originally. Her leaving put a crimp on his plan but she's not gone anymore.

So I think technically she owns it free and clear.

Edited January 2, 2016 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

When is he going to visit? DD is a pretty big threat and there's no impending visit from Barry requiring his attention elsewhere.plus, it would be pretty insane to do it since Oliver has a target painted on his back, not just GA. I'm not saying that it won't happen, it's definitely more than possible on this show. I just don't think contact beyond calling Sandra from a burner phone and suggesting to take William to visit relatives in Australia for a few months makes a lick of sense.

Yes, it would be stupid of Oliver. Yes, it would be shitty of Oliver. I don't see how that prevents them from writing him doing it. Oliver is often as dumb as an actual doorknob (plan = take down plane with RAG/virus on plane, nevertheless leave ONE WORKING PARACHUTE RIGHT THERE for RAG to use), and we've seen him be shitty innumerable times.

 

All they have to do is insert one line from Felicity asking Oliver what he was up to that day, and have Oliver respond he had to go to CC for whatevs reason, while looking a little shifty/guilty. It's the same way we usually don't see them sleep or work or use the bathroom, but we know they do. He wouldn't even really have to specify CC, just say he was stuck at the office all day with mayoral crap, again while looking shifty/guilty. Easy peasy. 

[bethy]

You're twitter app/site didn't offer to translate? Both twitter and facebook offer to translate for me. I don't recall if it's both the website and apps ...also could be Chrome.

 

Well, I went back and looked again, and yeah, it did. Whoops. :) I didn't notice the "view translation" link until I looked for it. Good to know!

[Morrigan2575]

Well, I went back and looked again, and yeah, it did. Whoops. :) I didn't notice the "view translation" link until I looked for it. Good to know!

I love it, so freaking helpful. Really glad Twitter and Facebook added that feature

[Reba]

Going back to the Felicity code name. It would be awesome if they used Athena. Project Athena is the name of MIT's computing environment. So it would be perfect for her - but not sure how many of the writing staff know anything real about MIT.

[Morrigan2575]

The only thing I could see preventing Athena is if DC makes it off limits because of Wonder Woman. Granted that seems like a bit of a stretch since we're talking god/character vs codename but you can never tell with DC.

I like Athena.