Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, sorry, but that spec just sounds like reaching too hard tbh. But this fandom does it a lot so it's not surprising haha. I just don't see how you can go from Laurel shielding kids from being shot to saving William. LOL. Not everything is a clue for something later down the line.

I think LL was using the kid as a human shield not protecting her...joking

[wonderwall]

I think LL was using the kid as a human shield not protecting her...joking

No joke, I watched that scene and wondered why LL was using that kid as a shield instead of protecting them... It made me lol :p Oh Laurel... Never change...

[kismet]

FS could still be pregnant. They never said she wasn't. Im seriously kidding, but I guess it's still a possibility. The theories do go a little extreme.

I think whoever dies is going to be the writers version of noble and heroic. Dying to protect someone is probably going to be one of the plausible reasons. I just don't see William being the one to be protected causing the death.

[way2interested]

FS could still be pregnant. They never said she wasn't. Im seriously kidding, but I guess it's still a possibility. The theories do go a little extreme.

 

The problem is, some of the extreme theories are more entertaining than the actual show. Like, all the past predictions that Poppy would be some sort or ARGUS agent or someone from the Bratva or at least the Bonnie to Oliver's Clyde were extreme given what we have now, Some Sara resurrection theories went the same way. I get the EXTREME extreme ones go too far, but some of the semi-extreme ones actually do have a realm of possibility with them in a why didn't they do that? sort of way.

 

Honestly, I do always make two sets of theories for myself. One for what I would love to happen one for what I expect to happen. I'm never really bitter about any of them, since it actually allows me to picture different scenarios, but it does somewhat also discourage me from theorizing, since I usually know that what I would like to happen probably not happen. Oh well.

 

I do think that the hints in 409 were definitely put there on purpose between Laurel and Quentin. I wouldn't understand what other reason that exchange was placed there unless it was to thematically go back to it later. Oliver and Felicity's conversation about getting through hard times together is already coming back (what with Felicity being shot and her recovery), Diggle's conversation with his brother is probably coming back in 411, so what does Laurel and her dad's talk have to do with anything?

 

On another side note, EBR's answer about 410 when she says that it's interesting on how Felicity's injury is dealt with makes me wonder what else actually happens in 410. The scene in the promo probably takes up the first few minutes, Rage!Oliver another few minutes, Oliver and Donna's scene for a few minutes, and DD and Malcolm meeting for another few minutes. I have no idea what the rest of the characters are even doing the rest of the time, or even what's pushing the plot for this episode. And what does "Blood Debts" have to do with the episode?

[catrox14]

Am I the only person that reads the word 'interesting' and translates that to 'wtf are they doing!"

[way2interested]

Am I the only person that reads the word 'interesting' and translates that to 'wtf are they doing!"

 

Freaked out at that wording myself, tbh. I know EBR's wording sometimes differs with how I would describe something, but I also know that she seems to genuinely think certain plot points are more interesting than others seem to think (hey, but everyone feels that way for different plots). My issue comes more from the idea of how dealing with a character's injury becomes something that 1) is a thing rather than just a reaction 2) is deemed "interesting"?

Reactions are interesting to me, but purposefully phrasing that the how is interesting makes me think that something else happens in 410 regarding Felicity in the hospital. 

[Morrigan2575]

On another side note, EBR's answer about 410 when she says that it's interesting on how Felicity's injury is dealt with makes me wonder what else actually happens in 410. The scene in the promo probably takes up the first few minutes, Rage!Oliver another few minutes, Oliver and Donna's scene for a few minutes, and DD and Malcolm meeting for another few minutes. I have no idea what the rest of the characters are even doing the rest of the time, or even what's pushing the plot for this episode. And what does "Blood Debts" have to do with the episode?

I think I missed that. Is it the one from the Bello interview or a different one?

I'm thinking Blood Depts is going to be Oliver killing a bunch of Ghosts because Felicity is injured

Edited December 23, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[kismet]

The problem is, some of the extreme theories are more entertaining than the actual show. Like, all the past predictions that Poppy would be some sort or ARGUS agent or someone from the Bratva or at least the Bonnie to Oliver's Clyde were extreme given what we have now, Some Sara resurrection theories went the same way. I get the EXTREME extreme ones go too far, but some of the semi-extreme ones actually do have a realm of possibility with them in a why didn't they do that? sort of way.

 

Honestly, I do always make two sets of theories for myself. One for what I would love to happen one for what I expect to happen. I'm never really bitter about any of them, since it actually allows me to picture different scenarios, but it does somewhat also discourage me from theorizing, since I usually know that what I would like to happen probably not happen. Oh well.

Oh I love the extremes when it comes to the theories. Even if some are really out there, they are so fun to hear them or see the lengths people go to piece their theories together. I also like to have the crazy out of the box theories that I hope would happen and compare it to what is logically going to happen. It is amazing how so many of the stories the fans come up with are better than what the writers give us. Then again, the show does have a few interesting choices some better than others. But the theories here for Poppy and Sara's resurrection were/are leaps above what the writers have given us. That being said, I think s4 has been better with balancing their stories and the overall direction of the show it back on point this season.

 

I look forward to the middle part of the season, but I must admit I am leery of them no matter how "interesting" it might be. Consistently, the show has always struggled between 411-417 and I don't see that trend changing. But I'm hopeful.

[pootlus]

I'm thinking Blood Depts is going to be Oliver killing a bunch of Ghosts because Felicity is insured

As long as she's insured!

[jay741982]

I know how it's interesting: Felicity is revealed to be Meta to everyone's surprise LOL Just kidding.

[BkWurm1]

I think I missed that. Is it the one from the Bello interview or a different one?

I'm thinking Blood Depts is going to be Oliver killing a bunch of Ghosts because Felicity is injured

I was wondering if Blood Debts was referring back to Oliver saying he owed Malcolm one.  I wondered if Malcolm would collect his debt so soon.  It seems too soon and Oliver obviously would have his head elsewhere but if Malcolm didn't give him a choice and Felicity was stable in a coma or something he might head out.

[looptab]

Question: among the many patterns this show follows, there's the one of episodes 10-14 being Laurel-heavy, or at least featuring important developments for her character. From spoilers, it looks like this year is breaking the tradition. What do you think about it?  :)

Edited December 23, 2015 by looptab

[Morrigan2575]

I think they bumped her heavy episodes up to 3-6 in order to launch LoT/Sara

[Chaser]

What do we really know about the post-hiatus episodes?

 

4x11 - Diggle-centric including flashbacks with his brother. A special effects scene featuring Felicity.

 

4x12 - Roy returns, being blackmailed by The Calculator.

 

4x13 - Calculator again. Mama Smoak returns. Sounds Felicity-centric.

 

4x14 - Big scene (but not action). Fancy dress. Echo and Stepford Wife are in the episode. Lance/Laurel have some type of action sequence. 

 

Malcolm seems to be in a lot, if not all of the episodes. 

 

I think there are a couple more Lance Family episodes coming up. Probably around episodes 18/19/20. 

[BkWurm1]

Question: among the many patterns this show follows, there's the one of episodes 110-114 being Laurel-heavy, or at least featuring important developments for her character. From spoilers, it looks like this year is breaking the tradition. What do you think about it?  :)

I think it's an excellent tradition to break. 

 

I'm having a hard time predicting who will be the focus o most of the episodes.  4-10 is very confusing and could very well be 30 percent Felicity being shot/Oliver reacting and 70 percent totally other story.  4-11 seems to be Diggle centric.  And 412 seems to be Roy's.  Maybe 4-13 is Felicity centric.  Then 4-14 is Olicity heavy maybe? 

 

Or what 10eleven12 said. 

Edited December 23, 2015 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

4x14 - Big scene (but not action). Fancy dress. Echo and Stepford Wife are in the episode. Lance/Laurel have some type of action sequence. 

Donna is still there.

 

And Felicity is still wearing the engagement ring throughout these episodes.

 

But it's true, we know next to nothing. 

 

ETA: Felicity gets a code name in 4x11 which makes me think she's back to working with the team.

Edited December 23, 2015 by bijoux

[Morrigan2575]

I don't see 18-20 being Lance family Drama episodes. 19-23 are the back 5 and always used to ramp up the story to the finale. While 20-23 are more often than not, directly connected episodes.

You might get an episode focusing on Laurel and/or Lance if one of them is in fact in the grave. However, that's not really Lance Family Drama that's the big send off episode (to write the character out).

The death will probably be in 19 or 20.

As for what we know.

410 - Felicity in the hospital, if I understand EBR's Bello quote maybe an out of body/ghostly/heavenly type Felicity story.

411 - Probably Diggle/Andy centric and Felicity has an emotional scene that uses an SFX.

412 - Roy/Calculator

413 - Calculator/ Mama Smoak - Felicity centric?

414 - Fancy party, Secret is finally revealed (probably) - Olicity centric

415 - Vixen comes to SC

Outstanding questions. Is there a mostly flashback episode in S4? If so, which episode?

IIRC David Ramsey said at San Jose that we were getting Diggle and Felicity flashbacks. Looks like 411 for Diggle, not sure which episode for Felicity.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

18/19/20 is my subtle way of saying that the show will swing back to them for the grave episode. LOL

 

I forgot about Vixen in 4x15.

[lexicon]

All this talk of an SFX scene with Felicity after she's been badly injured has me worried they're gonna make her bionic.

 

While I'm (partly) kidding about that, I am worried about how they're going to treat with her injury and subsequent recovery. One of the best things about Felicity, to me, has always been that she's an ordinary person thrust into extraordinary situations, who has not only risen to the challenge but has triumphed, almost finding her best self in the midst of the chaos. She's a hero and has never needed a mask, a leather suit or anything else to be one. I'd hate for her to lose that. 

[AyChihuahua]

IIRC David Ramsey said at San Jose that we were getting Diggle and Felicity flashbacks. Looks like 411 for Diggle, not sure which episode for Felicity.

Maybe 4.10 is Felicity flashbacks while she's having a near-death experience.  Scenes from their summer together, or even the summer before.  Or Felicity's pre-Arrow life.

Edited December 23, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[NumberCruncher]

410 - Felicity in the hospital, if I understand EBR's Bello quote maybe an out of body/ghostly/heavenly type Felicity story.

I had the same thought re: Emily's quote. While an out-of-body experience has the potential to be cheesy, it could also be quite interesting if done right. Too bad I don't trust these writers as far as I can throw them.

Edited December 23, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[AyChihuahua]

I know this is super fanfic-y, but if they could get Colin Donnell I'd love for him to be her spirit guide or whatever.  I think EBR and CD would be great in a scene together.

[BkWurm1]

410 - Felicity in the hospital, if I understand EBR's Bello quote maybe an out of body/ghostly/heavenly type Felicity story

 

She said something to the effect of not being on the planet which was a bit confusing but maybe she just meant that Felicity flat lines? 

[bijoux]

I know this is super fanfic-y, but if they could get Colin Donnell I'd love for him to be her spirit guide or whatever.  I think EBR and CD would be great in a scene together.

 

And Moira too. You just know the two of them are swilling coctails in the great beyond and giving each other some shit. My dad, really? -Boys who cast glances at their jailbait sisters shouldn't throw stones.

[AyChihuahua]

And Moira too. You just know the two of them are swilling coctails in the great beyond and giving each other some shit. My dad, really? -Boys who cast glances at their jailbait sisters shouldn't throw stones.

Ha!

 

Susanna Thompson seems to have told the producers to eff off (which I truly appreciate), so I don't know that we'll ever see Moira again, unless it's from old scenes or in pics.  CD, though, is on good terms with Arrow.  He's already on two other shows, however, so don't know that they could work out the timing.

[tv echo]

SEASON 4B SPOILER COMPILATION (EPISODES 410 - 415)

 

S4, Episode 10: Blood Debts
-- Production code: 410.  Director: Jesse Warn.  Airdate: Jan. 20, 2016. (MG tweet, page 25 of Spoilers thread)
-- On Felicity's last scene in 409 while fans wait for 410, EBR: "She is sincerely in danger. Felicity is right now completely not on this planet. So, it's going to be a little bit of a devastation, and it will be interesting on how it's dealt with. You have to keep in mind how strong she is, and hopefully that strength will prevail and keep her around." (Scan of Bello Mag's December 2015 Young Hollywood article in Morrigan2575 post, page 113 of Starling City Times thread)
-- Pic of Starling General Hospital posted. Filming at Burnaby South Senior Secondary on Nov. 2, 2015.  (YVRShoots tweet, page 25 of Spoilers thread)

-- Donna Smoak (CR) will appear in this episode. (CR tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread, and TVLine article, page 21 of Spoilers thread)
-- Pic of CR and SA on a hospital set. (CR tweet, page 258 of Social Media thread)
-- CR: "I, honestly, adore Stephen and his affection toward his beautiful daughter is touching. He is an awesome Daddy in real life! I think he likes our scenes together as we laugh a lot and, as you know, he has to be very serious most of the time so, it’s always nice to have a bit of levity in a scene for a change, I think. That doesn’t apply to the scene we will be filming this week- it’s a tearjerker!" (Emertainment Monthly article, page 26 of Spoilers thread)
-- It sounds like there will be a big confrontation between DD (NM) and Malcolm (JB) in 410. (GreenArrowTV tweet, page 24 of Spoilers thread)
-- On the flashforward gravesite storyline, WM: "We will see a little bit, a hint of it in 409 and possibly 410. And then, towards the end of the season, it will all be revealed." (TheWrap article, page 25 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 11: A.W.O.L.
-- Production code: 411.  Director: Charlotte Brandstrom.  Airdate: Jan. 27, 2016. (MG tweet, page 25 of Spoilers thread)
-- Felicity's code name appears for the first time in 411 and contains the letter "A".  (MG tumblr post, page 26 of Spoilers thread)
-- Brian Ford Sullivan (Writer): "Some next level tech happening right now on #Arrow 411 set.  All in the name a personal story we couldn't tell without it."  (BFS tweet, page 736 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Jean-Luc Dinsdale (VFX Supervisor): "@briforsul I’m working through a huge technical scene with an amazing actor, a great script, and a wonderful director. Couldn’t be happier!" (JLD tweet, pages 736 and 780 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Jean-Luc Dinsdale (VFX Supervisor): "Props to @EmilyBett - an incredibly talented actor and true professional. It’s a great pleasure to work with such amazing people! #Arrow" (JLD tweet, pages 736 and 780 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

S4, Episode 12: Unchained
-- Production code: 412.  Director: Kevin Fair.  Airdate: Feb. 3, 2016. (MG tweet, page 26 of Spoilers thread)
-- Felicity will be in 412.  (Speed Weed tweet, pages 678 and 724 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Roy Harper (CH) will appear in 412. (CH tweet and EW article, page 26 of Spoilers thread)
-- Roy will only be in one episode (412).  He'll have scenes with the whole cast and with Thea.  (MG tumblr posts, page 26 of Spoilers thread)
-- The Calculator (TA) uses his advanced skills in computer science and internet manipulation to blackmail Roy (CH) out of retirement to do his bidding, which leads to an epic battle with Team Arrow.  He is set to appear in two episodes, beginning with 412.  (TVLine article, page 26 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 13: Sins of the Father
-- Production code: 413.  Director: Gordon Verheul.  Airdate: Feb. 10, 2016.  (MG tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- Donna Smoak will appear in 413. (SciFiBloggers article, page 27 of Spoilers thread)
-- The Calculator (TA) may also be appearing in this episode.  (TVLine article, page 26 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 14: Code of Silence
-- Production code: 414.  Director: James Bamford.  Writers: WM and Oscar Balderrama.  Airdate: Feb. 17, 2016. (MG tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per JBam, this episode has "2 very amazing actors from 2 different very amazing fandoms joining us=EPIC".  JBam: "HINT: SCI-FI and COMIC franchises outside the CW/DC Universe are their origin.....too wide open for ya! That's really too bad. Guess again." (JBam tweets, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- Per JBam, there's a scene in O&F's loft.  CR may also be in this episode. (JBam instagram, page 780 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- EK and Enid-Raye Adams (plays Laura Hoffman, Ivy Town neighbor in 401) will appear in 414.  (ERA tweet, page 283 of Social Media thread)
-- JBam: "Just broke for lunch and we are about to shoot the largest scene in the episode....and it doesn't even involve action." (JBam tweet on 12/15/15, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- PB: "That's the best action sequence I've experienced on #Arrow @JamesBamford Putting myself & @MzKatieCassidy thru our paces! #TopDirector." (PB tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread)
-- Curtis will appear in 414 and EK filmed scene that he described as "life-changing."  (EK tweet, page 782 of Spoiler Discussion thread)
-- Donna Smoak will appear in 414.  (CR tweet, page 28 of Spoilers thread)

 

S4, Episode 15: TBA
-- Production code: 415.  Director: TBA.  Airdate: Feb. 24, 2016
-- Mari McCabe, a/k/a Vixen (played by Megalyn Echikunwoke), will make her live-action debut in this episode.  (TVInsider article, page 28 of Spoilers thread)

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks @TV Echo - I forgot about Felicity getting her code name in 411. Also, re-reading those quotes, I definitely think Felicity's personal story and the tech are related to Felicity over coming whatever injury she has as a result of 409/410.

We really don't know that much about 13/14, I wonder if Calculator is in 12/13 or 12/14? Pity we don't have any set pics of Tom A. To determine which episodes he filmed.

[Chaser]

I thought EBR was just talking about Felicity flatlining but re reading the answer, it does almost sound like something more.

[way2interested]

We really don't know that much about 13/14, I wonder if Calculator is in 12/13 or 12/14? Pity we don't have any set pics of Tom A. To determine which episodes he filmed.

I would think that he's in 412 and 413, that makes it easier to schedule his scenes almost all together instead of possibly having to schedule him for January. Plus, "Sins of the Father"? I don't think the writers can resist the parallel opportunity. It is a shame we can't see any set pics of him, but I'd bet good money that CR and EBR already have them, considering how excited they were for the story. Come February we'll probably see them (can't show them now to confirm what I would think 80% of everyone already suspects).

 

But all of this makes me wonder where DD's plan even fits into the plot, and when the team would even figure out anything going forward. I mean, TA didn't find out that Slade was alive until 215, the League plot didn't really kick in until then as well, so I'm guessing the same for s4? I get that 11-17 is usually just them kicking the plot around until they get back to set up in 18-20 and then the final 3, but it makes me wonder what DD will even be doing this entire time, and when we might find out about his family again.

 

 

I was wondering if Blood Debts was referring back to Oliver saying he owed Malcolm one.  I wondered if Malcolm would collect his debt so soon.  It seems too soon and Oliver obviously would have his head elsewhere but if Malcolm didn't give him a choice and Felicity was stable in a coma or something he might head out.

 

Honestly, my first thought was that Malcolm and Oliver go after HIVE and DD to get DD's stash of waters from the Pit as a contingency plan for Oliver while Malcolm tries to figure out what's going on with Thea's bloodlust. Then, Malcolm or Oliver would find out about the weird totem/ blood sacrifice thing but not know what it is, and "Blood Debts" would refer to DD's connection with the shrine along with Oliver's violent attack of the Ghosts in response to Felicity's injury. It's probably not right, but I'm just trying to find some sort of logic as to why Oliver would leave Felicity to go all rage against the Ghosts. Even in 409 when Oliver was wailing on those Ghosts, there was still a purpose and a mission behind his actions, and I can't picture Oliver just flying off the handle for no reason, even if it was in retaliation for Felicity.

 

All this talk of an SFX scene with Felicity after she's been badly injured has me worried they're gonna make her bionic.

 

While I'm (partly) kidding about that, I am worried about how they're going to treat with her injury and subsequent recovery. One of the best things about Felicity, to me, has always been that she's an ordinary person thrust into extraordinary situations, who has not only risen to the challenge but has triumphed, almost finding her best self in the midst of the chaos. She's a hero and has never needed a mask, a leather suit or anything else to be one. I'd hate for her to lose that. 

 

Looking at the few set photos of EBR that there are for post 410, it doesn't seem like she has anything that would suggest that, but who knows, I could be wrong. Luckily, I feel somewhat confident that the writers and EBR share that same mentality when it comes to Felicity. Any time she's involved in some sort of "superhero" sort of moment, it's always pretty grounded (taking a bullet, hitting someone with something heavy, using her own skills/brain), and even the un-Felicity like hero moments (flying the ATOM suit, shooting a gun) were still played off for a spur-of-the-moment happenings and still felt pretty true to who she is. Whenever the EPs even get asked the "hero" or "mask" question about Felicity, even they are hesitant to answer, since the quite literal answer is no, while Felicity will still continue to have her heroic moments. Plus, I feel like it would be more interesting to write, and watch, an emotional recovery story rather than create a deus ex machina to fix Felicity after all of 2 episodes (still better than Barry's speedy recovery from paralysis, but pretty quick all the same).

[tangerine95]

I thought EBR's answer about 4.10 was refering to Felicity being on the verge of death but I do think now that its possible they do like an out of body experience. or something.Not sure if they can pull that off though.I would love it if 4.10 were her flashbacks but I feel like we would have known about it by now if they filmed that.It would also be great because the island flashbacks are so boring they totally take me out of the show and they interupt the episode flow in a really annoying way.

Still hoping we don't get a paralysis storyline.I'm sure it would be emotional and EBR would do great but I don't see the point of doing that other than to pile on more angst.She can have PTSD from the experience or something.It would be really annoying to me if Felicity is like the only one to suffer serious physical consequences when the show had Oliver come out okay after being stabbed in the chest and thrown of a mountain.They pretty much gave up on people even looking bruised most of the time after geting horribly beaten up so it would just seem unfair to me that Felicity is the only one to suffer long lasting consequences like that.

[way2interested]

Honestly, I don't think that Felicity is going to be in 410 much as all. IIRC, EBR seemed to have a lot of free time during that shooting schedule (even though the shooting schedule was short to being with), so I'm just thinking it's more of a reactionary episode and setting up Felicity's own reaction to her recovery for the end of 410 and then 411.

 

I'm not too fond of the idea of a paralysis storyline either for the reasons that tangerine95 mentioned as well (not to mention that Flash kind of butchered that idea already, and I would just spend a good portion of the rest of the season wondering when she was going to get better), but I'm just steeling myself to prepare if it does happen. It kind of makes me feel a bit better knowing that even if she is in a wheelchair, it won't be permanently. Given that the show still has 1-2 years left, I would doubt that the network would ok a permanent paralysis story. It would just be a matter of when she gets better, which, to me, kind of undermines the whole point of a paralysis story in the first place (not that I even wanted one in the first place). 

[AyChihuahua]

Still hoping we don't get a paralysis storyline.I'm sure it would be emotional and EBR would do great but I don't see the point of doing that other than to pile on more angst.She can have PTSD from the experience or something.It would be really annoying to me if Felicity is like the only one to suffer serious physical consequences when the show had Oliver come out okay after being stabbed in the chest and thrown of a mountain.They pretty much gave up on people even looking bruised most of the time after geting horribly beaten up so it would just seem unfair to me that Felicity is the only one to suffer long lasting consequences like that.

I don't think they can stop themselves from nodding to the Oracle/Proxy comic storylines.  And they're doing something techy/FX-y with EBR in 4.11.  So injury/wheelchair in the loft set/Oracle/Proxy/FX involving EBR in 4.11...yeah, I think they're doing something paralyze-y that will maybe be over with some kind of high-tech treatment in 4.11, or maybe she needs continuing treatments so it at least somewhat continues on past 4.11.  I think Felicity is going to have another very miserable year.

   

I don't like it either, but I never bought that Guggie moved past S3's melodrama and angst, because S3 ratings were good.  Sure they got spanked by critics and in social media, but why should they really care as long as ratings were good, which they very much were.  Same reason I think the Baby Mama storyline is going to continue to suck, because again, ratings for the crossover and 4.9 were good.

Edited December 23, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tangerine95]

I'm still not convinced that storyline is happening but I am preparing myself for something like that too.I hope if they do put her in a wheelchair it is cured in 4.11.I don't care if its rushed,I don't want it dragged out for sure.

Right now I don't see a point to it and if its a way to nod to the comics,is doing that really worth paralysing Felicity for a while just to nod to a comic book destiny that isn't even her's and has no similarities with her story other than they're both hackers.I don't mind Felicity going though a dark time and all that but not from a wheelchair on top of everything.I'm hoping they're smart enough not to take on such a heavy storyline because this is not the show for it at all.

[NumberCruncher]

See, I would actually prefer that if they insist on putting Felicity in a wheelchair (damn it I hate this whole idea!) and having her recover it better not be a Matthew Crawley miracle moment. I'm going to need to see actual physical therapy involved. If she were to spring up suddenly because of some comic book contrived nonsense I'm automatically going to hate it as much as I hate Barry's time traveling bullshit.

[tangerine95]

I don't want this to be some huge storyline that forces Felicity to be in a wheelchair most of the second half of the season.If it happened I would prefer the quick comic book fix like pretty much all injuries on the show were.

[NumberCruncher]

It's just my personal preference. I know may not be popular but with all of the silliness that TPTB have insisted on giving the show (Lazarus Pits, supernatural magic, Ray's shrinking abilities, etc.) I'd like to have at least one real dramatic storyline not be subject to instant DC comic shenanigans. It also would be much meatier from a character perspective to have Felicity struggle with a physical challenge and the emotional fallout from it rather than hand-wave it away. Even though I hate that this show insists on making the one fun, happy character be miserable at least it would be a storyline truly about HER instead of her current superhero boyfriend. Don't get me wrong, I hate the prospect of her being hurt, but if they insist on doing it, at least make it worthwhile instead of a complete joke.

[AyChihuahua]

When we first saw the wheelchair lots of people pointed out that it could just be a broken leg or some such, but now we know there's no reason she'd have a broken leg, but she was shot in an area that could easily lead to a spinal injury, so yeah, I think they're going paralysis of some kind.  And it's going to suck and be unrealistic and offensive, etc., but that in no way means they won't do it.  I mean, these people thought RAG's plot-induced late-onset homophobia and misogyny, leading to forcing a gay woman to marry a straight man, was supercool and so fun.  They thought Laurel fooling her father into thinking she was dead Sara was great.  They think a Hanukkah episode in which a Jewish woman, a black man, and another woman are put in a gas chamber is totes awesome and fine bc it was done by the villain. 

 

BUT, I don't think it will last more than a few episodes, until the big PT board meeting at most, bc I don't think the CW would let them cover up EBR's legs and rear-end for very long. 

[Happy Harpy]

I remember saying back in the days at TWOP that if Felicity had a crucible, it would come under the shape of a wheelchair. So it isn't an option that would surprise me. I also think it could be a good storyline, but only:

1) If it's written in character, meaning, if Felicity is strong in adversity. If she's understandably affected, but isn't done fighting. Felicity wallowing in self-pity would be unacceptable for me, because I don't remember her ever doing so until now.

2) If it's really her storyline, and isn't used to service another character. I don't want, an example at random, her ordeal used in order to showcase what a good friend a character is to her and how said character inspires Felicity.

3) If we don't get a "because of the life I lead" kind of reverse discourse which would have her push Oliver away.

 

And it makes a lot of "if". The writing for O/F in S4 would have made me feel optimistic, but the BM disaster doesn't let me. I fear indeed that it would be exploited for cheap drama during a couple of episodes.

If they did it in a more realistic way, and didn't change who Felicity is, I even wouldn't mind if she were paralyzed until the S5 MSF, for example. I would love to see Felicity still kicking ass in her wheelchair, and Oliver still crazy in love with her. I would prefer they weather this kind of trial rather than be embroiled in soap-ish drama. And the cliffhanger could be a risky operation in order to heal her, it would change a bit from the overused "death" of a main character.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[looptab]

I had thought about the ghostly/extra-corporeal thing and immediately chalked it out, but now that's been brought up..I want it and fear it at the same time, haha.

[way2interested]

I remember saying back in the days at TWOP that if Felicity had a crucible, it would come under the shape of a wheelchair. So it isn't an option that would surprise me. I also think it could be a good storyline, but only:

1) If it's written in character, meaning, if Felicity is strong in adversity. If she's understandably affected, but isn't done fighting. Felicity wallowing in self-pity would be unacceptable for me, because I don't remember her ever doing so until now.

2) If it's really her storyline, and isn't used to service another character. I don't want, an example at random, her ordeal used in order to showcase what a good friend a character is to her and how said character inspires Felicity.

3) If we don't get a "because of the life I lead" kind of reverse discourse which would have her push Oliver away.

 

Yep, I pretty much agree with your reasoning. Your number 1 is what's most important to me, but I can picture them shoe-horning in character service to a lesser extent (I feel that anything SFX tech that would relate to Felicity or even her eventual recovery would have to partially thanks to Curtis, but here's hoping that Felicity's, and to a lesser extent Oliver, still the driving force behind her own recovery).

 

As for the wallowing in self-pity, I would kind of need at least one scene with some sort of negative reaction from Felicity over some news about what happened. Even if it is a temporary paralysis, that would be a serious accident that shouldn't just be taken automatically with a stiff upper lip. Maybe just one scene at the end of 410 when she and Oliver realize what's going on and what they'll be dealing with in recovery, but no wallowing afterwords would be preferred, since I'm thinking that's what you mean. I totally agree, she's strong and will totally get through this, but I would like some sort of initial reaction. Plus, I've been loving how this season they've been making Oliver into the supportive friend/boyfriend and would love another opportunity to see that again from Oliver.

[looptab]

I actually wouldn't mind if she were the one saying she can't/doesn't want to be with him after whatever the consequences of being shot will be, and him going "LOL,NO, nice try, though". 

Edited December 23, 2015 by looptab

[Happy Harpy]

As for the wallowing in self-pity, I would kind of need at least one scene with some sort of negative reaction from Felicity over some news about what happened. Even if it is a temporary paralysis, that would be a serious accident that shouldn't just be taken automatically with a stiff upper lip. Maybe just one scene at the end of 410 when she and Oliver realize what's going on and what they'll be dealing with in recovery, but no wallowing afterwords would be preferred, since I'm thinking that's what you mean.

Yes, that's what I mean. She couldn't be expected to be unshaken, she would be a Mary Sue otherwise. But afterwards, things like giving up on her job or her place on Team Arrow  in order to cry over herself would be completely OOC and utterly unacceptable for me. Felicity Smoak has always made lemonade with the lemons life threw at her because, per her own words, if she didn't she'd be a cocktail waitress in Vegas.

 

I actually wouldn't mind if she were the one saying she can't/doesn't want to be with him after whatever the consequences of being shot will be, and him going "LOL,NO, nice try, though". 

If it's like this, I'd be OK with it. Even better, he could see the look on her face, guess what she's about to say and be like "Not gonna happen" before she can even pipe a word.

[DrSpaceman10]

I just hope that the consequences of Felicity being shot and Felicity's (probable) father coming onto the show, end up being storylines about Felicity and her character growth, and don't end up being about Oliver's lie or the BM bullshit. For example, they better not make Felicity's injury (?) about how Oliver "can't" tell her about the BM, now that Felicity's hurt, leading Oliver to more angsty man-pain (insert eye-roll here). 

 

This is probably way too much to ask from Arrow, though. 

 

I am looking forward to Felicity getting some story focus, but I'm definitely not looking forward to the inevitable BM drama that's probably coming with it. Plus, we'll have the fun of yet another character (in addition to Barry) finding out about the BM before Felicity. It just shows how much all of this wasn't about the BM, as a character, wanting to keep a secret, but about the writers wanting to keep the secret specifically from Felicity, so as to cause stupid drama between Oliver/Felicity. The worst part of all of this BM BS is that we're going to be stuck with it until the end of the series. 

 

If Arrow knows anything, it's how to ruin a good thing (see Olicity Season 4, OTA). 

 

 

 

This post is kind of bitter, so here's a cute Christmas (holiday) gif: 

 

[AyChihuahua]

Oh, they are absolutely going to use Felicity's injury as Oliver's "reason" not to tell her.  They're trying to sell it as Oliver not being a superdouche lying sack of crap.  They are failing, spectacularly, but that's what they're going for.  So yeah, Oliver's going to say he couldn't tell her bc she was hurt (even though she'll be well enough to assist in TA business and deal with her father), just like they tried to sell that Laurel had a valid reason not to tell Quentin Sara was dead bc of his heart (which, similarly, had no adverse affect on his ability to do a very stressful job).  Based on his interview, Guggie thinks it's fine for Oliver to lie to Felicity to keep his word to a lying hag.  I have my doubts that Oliver's reasons are going to have anything to do with a fear of losing Felicity, which seems to me to be the only non-scumbag way to take his character in this wretched plotline (and SA would have to portray a SERIOUSLY overwhelming fear of her dumping him, which, IMO, he entirely failed to do when he was called on to sell a similarly desperate fear of RAG causing all his brain cells to short-circuit in S3).

 

I mean seriously, this show is really dumb most of the time, and incredibly repetitive (and therefore predictable) nearly all the time.

Edited December 23, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

I know this is super fanfic-y, but if they could get Colin Donnell I'd love for him to be her spirit guide or whatever.  I think EBR and CD would be great in a scene together.

That sounds AMAZING!! I could so get on board with that in fan fic, on TV, in my dreams. Someone needs to make it happen. Tommy & Felicity in any story is my weakness, especially if they are friendly. Perhaps FS can shepard him back into reality. I have a short list I would exchange in return.

 

Oh, and Moira back would be BEYOND AMAZING, but I think your estimation of her feelings towards the ARROW producers is about right. I think it will be a very long time before we ever get to see ST/MQ on our screens in ARROW. Perhaps, they should learn to not kill people just for kicks.

Edited December 24, 2015 by kismet

[Primal Slayer]

They already tried to get her back and she turned them down so i doubt we will see her ever again. Maybe when the series ends.

[kismet]

See, I would actually prefer that if they insist on putting Felicity in a wheelchair (damn it I hate this whole idea!) and having her recover it better not be a Matthew Crawley miracle moment. I'm going to need to see actual physical therapy involved. If she were to spring up suddenly because of some comic book contrived nonsense I'm automatically going to hate it as much as I hate Barry's time traveling bullshit.

I have already made my feelings known on the paralysis story awhile back. I don't need it or want it, and I definitely fear that they will not treat the story with respect or decency... That being said I hope they at least go the physical therapy, temporary spinal cord injury or some type of Palmer tech invention - I am seriously concerned that they are going to fix all the drama of this season with mystical time travel. Now that it is in the ARROW canon, I can see how it can be hard to resist for someone as cliche gimmicky as MG.

[Morrigan2575]

What if they go with a situation that her "paralysis" is caused by a bullet or something that they can't remove?

If the technical fix that Felicity/Curtis (swear to God Felicity better play a role in her own recovery!) Comes up with isn't a cure but a medical device that removes the bullet safely thereby allowing Felicity to regain the use of her legs?

Obviously I don't have a medical degree so I'm just pulling typical TV/comics stuff. I don't expect a Comicbook/action show to do a detailed/ realistic medical storyline. They're always going to come up with a "magic" fix.

I just checked out Barbara Gordon's "cure". Apparently she had an experimental procedure done at a clinic in South Africa that, some sort of "neural implant surgery". I could also see them doing something like this as well. Of course I'm not quite sure how a neural implant would fix a severed spinal cord but that's comics for you

Edited December 24, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

-- JBam: "Just broke for lunch and we are about to shoot the largest scene in the episode....and it doesn't even involve action." (JBam tweet on 12/15/15, page 28 of Spoilers thread)

-- Curtis will appear in 414 and EK filmed scene that he described as "life-changing."  (EK tweet, page 782 of Spoiler Discussion thread)

 

I suddenly got the feeling that Felicity is quitting the team. 

 

From a cold dispassionate viewpoint, it would be a clever misdirect to up her chances of still being in the grave if they had her separate from the team and Curtis step in.  People would point to it and say the show is already setting her up to leave.  I still wouldn't believe she'd be in the grave but after nearly killing her at the MSF, they may feel they have to do something big to make it seem like she could still be a contender. 

 

Personally I'd hate it as much as the BM drama (and it would be a sign that no, they were not going to take a more mature approach to the storyline).  I'm already crossing my fingers that I'm wrong about her quitting, but even if I am, I do think Curtis is gong to be brought into the fold officially.  (Or his husband is murdered as I earlier speculated.  One of the two or both)

 

And yeah, I worried that Bam Bam is in charge of likely a huge show changing scene between Oliver and Felicity. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by BkWurm1

[AyChihuahua]

I suddenly got the feeling that Felicity is quitting the team. 

I'd be fine with her quitting the team when she dumps Oliver, or at least taking some leave.  It's totally different now than when she very maturely didn't quit after Oliver dumped her/died/worked with MM/seemingly went evil...they were going to be married, so being around him after all that will be 1000x more difficult.  I'm very tired of Felicity having to be the one who adapts and forgives and deals with everything.  It's Oliver's turn. 

 

In my dream scenario her father blackmails her into leaving with him at the end of the season, using his assistance v. DD and/or a threat to spill the BM/Spawn secret.  I want Oliver to have to experience life without Felicity, so he learns not to pull this crap again.  (She can return in 5.2 or thereabouts.)

Edited December 24, 2015 by AyChihuahua