Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

The Flash episodes kinda established that when Barry resets a timeline, the universe/Speedforce(?) fucks something else up to make up for it (i.e. Cisco equipping murderous supervillians). I'm guessing that we're gonna see that happen again from Team Arrow almost dying and to actual death that eventually happens.

Are Laurel and Lance(?) the only ones not in that chamber?? I shouldn't but I think I'm getting my hopes! I'm not picky, Arrow. Either Lance family member will do fine for that grave.

Thanks you for the explanation.

We've confirmed that Felicity, Diggle and Donna are in the chamber. I'm presuming that Thea is in there as well but we haven't seen her yet.

I'm guessing Oliver/Laurel/Malcom team up for a rescue, which is why Malcolm is wearing the GA outfit.

So far we know Laurel isn't in the chamber and I'm guessing Lance isn't there either but who knows?

[jay741982]

Wasn't Felicity the last one of both teams to be vaporized before Barry went back in time? Maybe like in one of the Final destination movies an accident or Near death Experience will happen to TA starting with Felicity then going backwards

[calliope1975]

Ask and you shall receive:

 

 

Are you on Tumblr? Because I'm gonna need to reblog this perfection.

 

I just hope we get some Final Destination style deaths up in this place if I have to put up with this crap. Tony Todd's working on Flash. Can he come visit Arrow and be creepy. Bonus if he's hanging with some bees holding candy.

[Carrie Ann]

Ask and you shall receive:

 

 

You're a good person, blessings on your house.

[hogwash]

But doesn't the chamber get it out of the way for everyone except the Flash folks and Laurel? Unless it's not what it seems. 

[bijoux]

Are Laurel and Lance(?) the only ones not in that chamber?? I shouldn't but I think I'm getting my hopes! I'm not picky, Arrow. Either Lance family member will do fine for that grave. 

Lance hasn't been spotted yet but he was at the party and right next to Donna when DD crashes it. It's entirely plausible that he's taken as well.

[dtissagirl]

Are you on Tumblr? Because I'm gonna need to reblog this perfection.

 

I hadn't posted on Tumblr in over a year, but what the hey: http://thegirlwednesday.tumblr.com/post/134491192941/lies

[NumberCruncher]

It looks more and more like the limo crashes before Darhk suffocates Felicity. My guess is that Oliver and Felicity get abducted--seemingly after the big drama that happens early at the party--then Felicity gets put in the chamber.

The bottom gif shows only the two of them being roughed up by the Ghosts:

http://indigo-vine.tumblr.com/post/134490194880/oliver-and-felicity-sometimes-the-best-way-to

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think so. We know from Canadagrpahs that the engagement proceeds them getting into the limo.

Felicity is wearing the ponytail during the proposal. In the DD facility Felicity is wearing the same outfit hair that she's wearing at the party.

I think Wonderwall nailed the timeline.

Here's the video and writeup of the proposal

http://canadagraphs.weebly.com/arrow-blog

Edited December 3, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[jay741982]

Why is Oliver not in a Tux then? Felicity is looking goregeous In that red dress and Oliver is not as dressed up

I'm gonna so be pissed if Oliver Proposes while harboring that secret . But MG loves to have Oliver be a Dumbass remember he once said that

[Morrigan2575]

Why is Oliver not in a Tux then? Felicity is looking goregeous In that red dress and Oliver is not as dressed up

.

None of the guys at the party are in tuxes, they're all wearing suits. Felicity's dress isn't exactly black tie attire.

[NumberCruncher]

Exactly. I would believe the timeline as laid out were it not for Oliver being in a completely different set of clothes. There's definitely a time lapse somewhere along the way.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I don't think DD takes Oliver from the party, just the others. And then Oliver goes to him to maybe negotiate? Or as a potential Trojan Horse -- so Malcolm can pretend to be Green Arrow and help in the rescue mission.

[Password]

Ooh what about a "Lies, fairytales & fallacies" gif?

[apinknightmare]

Or as a potential Trojan Horse -- so Malcolm can pretend to be Green Arrow and help in the rescue mission.

 

I think this is what happens.

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I don't think DD takes Oliver from the party, just the others. And then Oliver goes to him to maybe negotiate? Or as a potential Trojan Horse -- so Malcolm can pretend to be Green Arrow and help in the rescue mission.

Right. DD takes Felicity, Diggle, Donna and most likely Thea (we don't see her) from the party and leaves Oliver behind (hense his lesson).

Oliver, Malcom and Laurel go in to rescue the group at a later time.

[dtissagirl]

And the public proposal is back in the same place of the bay clean up, isn't it? I wonder if they're gonna trick us [and Oliver] into thinking DD is defeated for good [which might even explain the proposal], but GOTCHA: Limo accident.

[Morrigan2575]

Could be but, he gives that speech about fighting Darkness with Light so I wonder if he knows DD is still out there? I think it could go either way. He thinks he won so it's proposal time or he almost lost Felicity so better now than never.

Forgot to mention we actually get to meet more HIVE members in this episode, they're snarking on DD after Oliver reveals DD/HIVE.

[dtissagirl]

In a shocking!!! twist of events, Natalie Abrams is pushing the Felicity is in the grave in 409 theory:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/03/arrow-midseason-finale-promo-grave-felicity

[apinknightmare]

In a shocking!!! twist of events, Natalie Abrams is pushing the Felicity is in the grave in 409 theory:

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/03/arrow-midseason-finale-promo-grave-felicity

 

Riveting analysis!

[Princess Vanellope]

Oh Natalie, sweetie, it hasn't been 6 months. It's okay, counting is hard. :P

[Angel12d]

It's actually hilarious how many people are thinking Felicity is gonna die next week though. I watched the promo on Facebook and the comments are making me LOL. Is this the first time they've watched TV? Haha.

 

Didn't the other promo have Diggle in the chamber with Felicity though? 

[Princess Vanellope]

It's actually hilarious how many people are thinking Felicity is gonna die next week though. I watched the promo on Facebook and the comments are making me LOL. Is this the first time they've watched TV? Haha.

 

Didn't the other promo have Diggle in the chamber with Felicity though?

It's the same people that thought Oliver was dead last year. Although, you'd think the "surprise" would be ruined since Arrow has shown time and again that death is meaningless. Plus, you know, the whole counting thing again...

[Primal Slayer]

I have to assume that "gas" chamber is made out of plastic. If not, it would be a perfect time for Black Canary to bust in and let out a good scream.

[wonderwall]

No offense, but I don't want that. That scream is dumb as hell no matter how many people it saves. 

[Chaser]

I'm thinking they will go with bark collar or get Curtis to hack the system.

[Angel12d]

I actually think that's probably what's gonna happen though. Laurel will use the canary cry. Why else would she not be at the party unless she gets to save the day?

[apinknightmare]

I think Oliver's there as bait, and Laurel will drop in and do her scream as a distraction, and then Malcolm dressed as Arrow comes in and helps Laurel fight while Oliver works (with Curtis, maybe?) to get everyone out?

[Morrigan2575]

That Bark Collar is so ineffective it's not even funny. I'm sure they'll use it to save the day but, I have to laugh at how absolutely useless it is most of the time.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[AyChihuahua]

You guys, it's mean as hell, but the Bark Collar is cracking me up.

[jay741982]

All I know is ill will hate seeing my baby Felicity in any kind of pain

[Sakura12]

I loved how useless the bark collar was against Savage, I don't even think he noticed it.

 

Sara's Canary bombs just seemed so much more powerful.  I mean look at this, her's incapacitated at least 20 people and shattered all the glass in the room.  

 

[Primal Slayer]

The Canary Cry is suppose to be 10x more powerful then the hand held device but if course they forgot that since they didn't write it. But i hope they have BC be badass and use it in a situation where it makes sense.

[AyChihuahua]

The scene of Darhk's men holding back Oliver while Felicity's dragged away has been giffed, and the reaction seems to be "Look, it takes three men to hold him back from his OTL."  My reaction is "Dude used to be able to take down three guys in his sleep.  He took down like 15 guys in a couple minutes to save Walter.  Now he can't take out THREE?"

 

Hopefully it's part of a ploy.

[Primal Slayer]

Hopefully not, I'm tired of Oliver constantly one upping the big bads.

[wonderwall]

I guess it's just me but I don't think the "canary cry" is badass at all. I think it's a cop out and convenient. 

What's badass would be a person using their hard earned skills to defeat bad guys. Unfortunately Laurel's skills weren't hard earned (I mean she did break her arm that one time with Nyssa...but that's it?) nor is she very skilled (she get's her ass handed to her a LOT) so there you go....

The scene of Darhk's men holding back Oliver while Felicity's dragged away has been giffed, and the reaction seems to be "Look, it takes three men to hold him back from his OTL."  My reaction is "Dude used to be able to take down three guys in his sleep.  He took down like 15 guys in a couple minutes to save Walter.  Now he can't take out THREE?"

 

Hopefully it's part of a ploy.

 

IDK Oliver looks pretty tied down with those men so I don't know how he'd get out of their grip considering he's being held down by 3 men (who are probably very strong themselves). I understand why he can't break free. What I wouldn't understand is if he can't fight 3 men at the same time untied (because he's done this successfully before). 

 

Breaking free and fighting are two different things imo. 

Edited December 4, 2015 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

IDK Oliver looks pretty tied down with those men so I don't know how he'd get out of their grip considering he's being held down by 3 men (who are probably very strong themselves). I understand why he can't break free. What I wouldn't understand is if he can't fight 3 men at the same time untied (because he's done this successfully before). 

 

Breaking free and fighting are two different things imo. 

I did say "take out."  That implies actual fighting v. just out-muscling them.  I would guess it's a ploy, but since tiny people can beat him now, it's hard to be sure.

[wonderwall]

I did say "take out."  That implies actual fighting v. just out-muscling them.  I would guess it's a ploy, but since tiny people can beat him now, it's hard to be sure.

No I know what you meant. I just meant that they had Oliver pretty tamped down there (IIRC)... So Oliver would have to actually get out of their grip first/overpower them. It's understandable why he can't... because there are 3 men using all of their power to keep him restrained. Idk how one could fight when they're restrained like that. 

[Primal Slayer]

Laurels skills were hard earned enough for my liking so I'm down with it. But it makes to much sense so i doubt it will actually happen.

[AyChihuahua]

No I know what you meant. I just meant that they had Oliver pretty tamped down there (IIRC)... So Oliver would have to actually get out of their grip first/overpower them. It's understandable why he can't... because there are 3 men using all of their power to keep him restrained. Idk how one could fight when they're restrained like that. 

I feel pretty comfortable that S1 Oliver could have, BUT I'm basically okay with it bc I'm guessing it's somewhat part of a ploy.  Not that he doesn't really want to beat them all up for dragging Felicity away.

 

I might actually watch 4.09 now, next day, not live, because I don't care about O/F anymore, and I no longer give a shit about his manpain while Felicity is hurt.  (I care a lot about her being hurt, but I can probably deal.)  

[wonderwall]

I might actually watch 4.09 now, next day, not live, because I don't care about O/F anymore, and I no longer give a shit about his manpain while Felicity is hurt.  (I care a lot about her being hurt, but I can probably deal.)  

 

Your prerogative. 

 

Although I may have to agree that it's part of a plan... 

[statsgirl]

DD doesn't know that Oliver is the Green Arrow at this point so it may be Oliver deciding not to fight to keep his cover.

 

On the other hand, if Felicity is in danger, why isn't he fighting with everything he's got?  DD kills rather than imprisons.

Edited December 4, 2015 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

I thought he looked way too calm in the scene with Felicity gasping in the chamber, actually.

[wonderwall]

I thought he looked way too calm in the scene with Felicity gasping in the chamber, actually.

 

I mean there obviously has to be a plan otherwise they probably wouldn't get themselves out of that situation.

 

I really do think that Laurel will use her ridiculous canary cry

[looptab]

I'm thinking the asshole formerly known as Oliver will cave in 410. With what happens at the bay, then the party, then the limo crash, maybe his conscience will eat him alive.

[HighHopes]

No yeah, there is definitely gas (or something) being pumped into the room that Felicity (and company) are in. Great job writers. 

 

[kismet]

And just when you thought it couldn't get any worse....

 

So after Felicity fights to recover from whatever injury she had, this is going to hit her in the face?

 

Thanks, AK, for giving Anna Hopkins a real storyline.  Not.

I bet Baby Mama will see coverage of the accident on TV and come a running during the recovery period. Oh now that she almost died, I guess it's ok to tell her the truth. She'll probably say I saw the look in your eye during the press conference and just knew that you were serious about her. And I couldn't hurt you.

 

Sidenote - Reading spoilers about BabyMama drama & angst after the fact is a rather eye-opening experience. The page from Pt 1 until just after the ep aired, I was like fluctuating between we were all so naive or people totally called it. And then I shook my hands in the air and wanted to belt out Adele "we could have had it all". Because man was I rolling in the deep sea of denial haze that the writers would not mess it up as badly as they did. But true to form they completely bungled the Baby Drama & added time travel to the show which only made the drama worse.

[kismet]

Right here!

If they felt that strongly about her, maybe they should have cast her as Poppy... cuz those dailies must be duds. It's all a matter of comparison.

 

TBH, I don't hate the actress that plays her, but the character is HORRENDOUS & the worst cliche. Arrow already has a wanna be nice-girl that comes off as a

bitch that supposed to be the girl next door. We don't need another drama inducing character. At least LL is comic canon legacy, we have to keep her around cuz comics, Samantha doesn't have any legacy rights to mess up ARROW any more than she has.

[kismet]

I think William is in the grave. Makes sense why Oliver looks sad but not devastated. Also explains why Barry is there. The next flash-forward could possibly show Samantha at the grave with Oliver, since MG said that she would be a part of a storyline.

Can we just put BabyMama in the grave and send William to a good boarding school? At this point, I don't want either of them parenting an actual human until they learn that lying for stupid reasons as emotional manipulation is not a healthy thing.

 

I still feel like if the show is going to throw a curveball and not pick from the main cast it won't be BabyMama or William. I think it will be Poppy or Campaign manager.  However, my bet is still a LANCE in the ground.

[kismet]

IDK Guys... I'm just sitting here laughing that DD wanted to take the people Oliver cares about the most and he left Laurel behind :p

DD is smarter. He's paying attention. No strategic learning curve for him. Can I also say, how freaking excited for DD I am in this upcoming episode. He's been ridiculed a lot for his monologues. Even though, I have personally loved them. But once his actual real threat is announced he wastes no time getting it in motion. I'm gonna hurt all your loved ones, round them up orders. None of this taunting for 5 or so episodes like Ras. I like his take charge, get the stuff done attitude. It's refreshing.