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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

What have y'all been drinking?

Worst case scenario juice.

 

I have had a few shows I've just drifted away from, and when that happens, I don't come back.  Supernatural and Sleepy Hollow most recently.  I used to be just as obsessed with SPN as I was Arrow, and now whenever I catch a few minutes of an episode I simply can't make myself care.  Re Sleepy Hollow, I was never obsessed but really enjoyed it in S1, still like the two main characters, but just can't be bothered to watch, even on Hulu when nothing else is on.  I feel like that's the direction I'm going with Arrow. 

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kismet

kismet

Are we taking bets who the next person they'll show at the Flashforward grave site is? I'm going with Sara because like Oliver and Barry we know she's safe and she would be there for either Felicity, Laurel, Thea, Diggle or Quentin's death. With the added bonus of the three of them representing all three shows Arrow, Flash and LoT.

I'm not sure if they will bother with another flash fwd gravesite shot. But Sara is a good choice. But she might be hard to get with LoT. So my bet is Thea. She would be emotional at both; but not too emotional. I imagine Sara would be distraught at her family's grave which is why they might not use her.

Sidenote- I'm cooking post in response to some of the post about if FS died and how ARROW could lose/keep me as viewer but I have to go to a wake and then work, so it might be a little bit.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Here we go:

 

Felicity dies in 4.09.  Oliver begins growing closer to Laurel through fighting DD together.  Malcolm moves back to SC to spend more time with Thea, and no one in SC recognizes him.  Nyssa dies.  Digg realizes he's no longer needed now that Oliver/Laurel are such a well-oiled team, so he retires and moves to Seattle with his wife and daughter.  Oliver realizes he's always loved Laurel, so he marries her and grows closer to Quentin, and no one ever mentions the manhunt.  Or Oliver sleeping with Sara (who never returns).  Baby Mama dies and the kid, who's not named Connor, moves in with Oliver and Laurel.

 

So basically, everything is terrible.

 

I need brain bleach after reading that.

 

I could probably watch this show without Olicity but I'd never watch it with Lauriver. Even their ship name is weird.

 

 

I think the ultimate troll move would be have Laurel show up at the grave, wordlessly sobbing until Oliver hugs her. She could be crying over: her father Quentin, her "little sister" Thea, her BFF Diggle, or her friend Felicity. That way, everyone could not only spend weeks freaking out that Felicity was dead, but also freaking out that the show was laying the ground work for Lauriver Redux. Fun times! If I were a troll, that's what I'd do. LOL.

 

LMAO. That's evil and brilliant. IMO though, Laurel was never on the death list so it wouldn't shock me if they did this. Actually, I'm now expecting it.

Edited by Guest
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Velocity23

Velocity23

I think LL is on the death list especially because she was threatened by DD. And she doesnt know it yet. And we all know how LL will react that everybody lied to her about her father playing double agent.

Let me have this dream.

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hogwash

hogwash

I think LL is on the death list especially because she was threatened by DD. And she doesnt know it yet. And we all know how LL will react that everybody lied to her about her father playing double agent.

Let me have this dream.

 

I'll dream with you. 

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Guest

Guest

I don't know. If Sara was still gonna be on this show and they were brave enough to make her the true Black Canary (as they should have done in the first place) then I'd agree that LL was on the list. But they went to all this hassle to make her BC. I can't see them killing off a comic character after all this fuss. I'd like to think they would but they don't have the guts. And in their minds, LL/BC works just fine on the show.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm a cynical and I think the death list is everyone the network has exercised options in their contracts, because less money to pay off when they're fired, so: Laurel, Quentin, Diggle, and Thea.

 

EBR is still under the 3-year contract, no options yet.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

Did LL really said "You're a hero in the light" to Sara.

Something about how Sara has fought in the darkness for so long that she should be a hero in the light now.

 

I actually liked what she told Sara and in that brief 2 second clip, I actually saw a lot of warmth there.

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bijoux

bijoux

 

I actually liked what she told Sara and in that brief 2 second clip, I actually saw a lot of warmth there.

She's continuing her streak of being more likeable on sister shows than on her own.
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calliope1975

calliope1975

I'm laughing at all the negativity, and I stayed home from work in a depressed spiral today. :D

 

How about QL's in the grave, Laurel's bummed and leaves to hang with her mom in Central City. Two birds, one stone. There's a new cop and/or lawyer liaison, OTA is stronger than ever, Lyla hangs out more, Roy and Sara visit, Ray gets stuck in some alternate time dimension, "Connor's" some random guy's kid, we get compelling, interesting villains, the stunts improve, and everyone lives happy ever after.

 

Just let me live in my delusion, okay?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

I am now (almost) positive that the Blind Item discussed earlier is Felicity:

We know Felicity's death won't stick because of filming spoilers, but when the episode ends (much like 3x09 did with Oliver) the audience will believe that Felicity is dead. Of course she won't actually be dead, but the episode could/will probably end on her flatlining so we think she is...

This was already revealed last week.

It was

Abbie on Sleepy Hollow

ETA: apinknightmare beat me to it. :)

Edited by Starfish35
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Guest

Guest

So EBR's picture of her dog presumably covered in Arsenal's costume hints that Roy will be back wearing his costume in 412. But are they forgetting that he gave it to Thea? Do these guys have back up suits or something? LOL.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

This was already revealed last week.

It was

Abbie on Sleepy Hollow

ETA: apinknightmare beat me to it. :)

Damnit, I beat everyone to it when I posted it here days ago.  Y'all are ungrateful.  

 

LoT trailer is NOT my bag.  However, Sara looks fantastic, especially in period outfits.

I'm laughing at all the negativity, and I stayed home from work in a depressed spiral today. :D

I'm definitely depressed, but this show sent me into a rage/misery spiral last season and everything non-Arrowy in my life was basically fine last season.  They just need to stop this angst and misery shit.  S3 was ENOUGH ALREADY.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

So EBR's picture of her dog presumably covered in Arsenal's costume hints that Roy will be back wearing his costume in 412. But are they forgetting that he gave it to Thea? Do these guys have back up suits or something? LOL.

I'm hoping that Oliver, Felicity, Diggle or Thea had Cisco make an Arsenal costume for Roy, just in case. Edited by Morrigan2575
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catrox14

catrox14

Here we go:

 

Felicity dies in 4.09.  Oliver begins growing closer to Laurel through fighting DD together.  Malcolm moves back to SC to spend more time with Thea, and no one in SC recognizes him.  Nyssa dies.  Digg realizes he's no longer needed now that Oliver/Laurel are such a well-oiled team, so he retires and moves to Seattle with his wife and daughter.  Oliver realizes he's always loved Laurel, so he marries her and grows closer to Quentin, and no one ever mentions the manhunt.  Or Oliver sleeping with Sara (who never returns).  Baby Mama dies and the kid, who's not named Connor, moves in with Oliver and Laurel.

 

So basically, everything is terrible.

 

Honest to gods. I think you're joking but this is actually very close to my head!canon that goes back to my fear that Loliver is the end game because comics.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Which just makes MG and co. look really bad at their job.

 

Well, per one of the EPs, her direction over on The Flash was basically to pretend like Arrowverse Laurel didn't even exist, and that she didn't have a care in the world. So, she wouldn't ever be like this over on Arrow anyway.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Well, per one of the EPs, her direction over on The Flash was basically to pretend like Arrowverse Laurel didn't even exist, and that she didn't have a care in the world. So, she wouldn't ever be like this over on Arrow anyway.

They still managed to write the character better then they do in Arrow.

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Guest

Guest

Well, per one of the EPs, her direction over on The Flash was basically to pretend like Arrowverse Laurel didn't even exist, and that she didn't have a care in the world. So, she wouldn't ever be like this over on Arrow anyway.

 

Haha, are you serious? So that's why she was so weird to me. It was Alt-Laurel!

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I don't think she was better in her flash crossover.She was weird and it seemed so forced.Like I don't think she was supposed to be that smug and happy about being BC and having Cisco fanboying over her considering she just started doing it after her sister recently died and the name Black Canary was used randomly as an insult by her father who was mad at her for hiding her sister's death for months.Also forced was Cisco being so impressed by her few weeks of fighting crime most of it badly even.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Plenty. She got more praise for her 1 minute then she did for majority of her run on Arrow. That says something to me.

 

That says that she wasn't given a storyline and was able to pop in for a few minutes and act completely unlike her character. I mean, AK was writing Laurel for a season and a half, so I don't know that she'd fare better over on The Flash if they actually had to give her a plot. Maybe the lighter style over on The Flash suits her better as an actress than the heavily dramatic stuff on Arrow, but there's no point to arguing it, because she's not going anywhere. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

Honest to gods. I think you're joking but this is actually very close to my head!canon that goes back to my fear that Loliver is the end game because comics.

They kill Felicity = I quit, happily, so I have zero anxiety about this.  EBR would go on to great things, and I'd maybe watch SA try and FAILFAILFAIL to generate chemistry and pretend to enjoy O/L.  That would crack my shit UP.

 

It's not even just that I love Felicity, although I do.  Killing Felicity would take the fun out of watching, and would fundamentally change the show in a way I would not enjoy.  Arrow and I would simply want different things in life.  

 

Also, it's not happening.  They are not for real killing Felicity.  

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think the ultimate troll move would be have Laurel show up at the grave, wordlessly sobbing until Oliver hugs her. She could be crying over: her father Quentin, her "little sister" Thea, her BFF Diggle, or her friend Felicity. That way, everyone could not only spend weeks freaking out that Felicity was dead, but also freaking out that the show was laying the ground work for Lauriver Redux. Fun times! If I were a troll, that's what I'd do. LOL.

LOL.  The news media as well as fandom would have a fit.

 

Doesn't her 3 year contract end this year though? Especially if she signed to be a regular in S2?

I think of all the supporting characters on the show, EBR would be paid the least.  She didn't come from another CW show as KC, WH and CH did, she didn't come from a network show as DR did, or her own show as PB did. What they would save on her contract, they would lose in p.r. and good will for the show.

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Chaser

Chaser

I can totally imagine EBR lawyers chopping at the bit to renegotiate her contract.

 

I know I've asked this before, but indulge me. EBR went from guest to recurring in S1. Series regular in S2. So did her (presumably) 3-year contract start in S1 or S2?

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I can totally imagine EBR lawyers chopping at the bit to renegotiate her contract.

 

I know I've asked this before, but indulge me. EBR went from guest to recurring in S1. Series regular in S2. So did her (presumably) 3-year contract start in S1 or S2?

I would say it's impossible to know for sure, but probably 2-4.  That is assuming she had a three-year+ options, which may or may not be correct.

 

I can totally imagine EBR lawyers chopping at the bit to renegotiate her contract.

If she has options, she can't exactly renegotiate, except if the studio is afraid she'll start acting like a jackass (doing her job exactly as required with a poor attitude) and they sweeten the pot just to keep her happy.  EBR does not seem like a jackass.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

What are options?

Basically exactly what they sound like: I have the option to make you do something because of a contract.  And they have to be unilateral, i.e., one-sided, because otherwise they are only an agreement to agree, which is not really enforceable and thus not really a contract.  I am a federal contracts attorney, and most of our service contracts are a base year + four one-year options...basically, we agree that you, defense contractor, will do this thing for this amount for one year, and if we want you to keep doing it, year-by-year for four more years afterwards, entirely at our whim, you will, or you will pay for breaching the contract.  So the studio can, most likely, make the actor keep working by exercising the option without the actor really agreeing to it (although they agreed to the overall contract, with options, and they're being paid for it).  The power is pretty much in the studio's hands (or in my case in the federal government's hands), because the studio can also just end the whole relationship by not exercising the option.  No monetary damages, no harm, no foul.  (Also, I've mentioned this before, but it's EXTREMELY UNUSUAL to get a court to force an individual to do something rather than just paying money for refusing to do it, because that's too much like indentured servitude.  So if, for example, SA became a huge movie star, he could breach his contract and just pay money to the studio, and it's very unlikely that a court would instead make him keep performing in Arrow.  The few exceptions are if it's a very short term thing and doesn't involve a lot of forced labor, for example Mariah Carey performing a one-time concert for the King of Dubai.)  (Or, in most states, if it involves the sale of land.)

 

I am a huge contracts nerd, I wrote my cert paper at Boston University School of Law on Third-Party Beneficiaries, got the Dean's Award for Contracts, and am happy to discuss whenever.  Do keep in mind, though, that I don't know the specifics of these actors' contracts; I just know how contracts work in general, and I am admitted in California, which is likely the state's law that applies to the contracts.  (California has a lot of law that is positive for celebrities, for example misuse of a public image is a tort in California and not in a lot of other states.)

Edited by AyChihuahua
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