Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Smoaking Reporter]

Could they spin Anarky as Felicitys dad?

I think Anarky is going to be her dad too. Didn't one of the EPs say we would be meeting more of Felicity's family? I think we will meet someone else from Felicity's family.

[Chaser]

EBR did seem confident that MamaSmoak is coming back. Looking forward to that, but I do hope she is used better this time around that 3.18. And absolutely no SmoaknLance. It's cute in theory. Distubing in reality. To me at least.

 

Do we know if the crossover event is going to be a three-way? or just with Flash?

 

I'm thinking they are going to go with the first few episodes focusing on Sara/Thea. Setting up a shady DD, but I don't think things are going to kick into gear until after the crossover (which I think would be smart). Anarky will probably be introduced in 4B.

[apinknightmare]

But yeah, they did hint that her dad might not appear but maybe they're trying to keep things close to their chests for once. They gave so much away last year. 

 

It's just that when WM mentioned that other big DC names would be appearing (Mr. Terrific and Anarky - whose names she didn't mention at the interview), she said they were trying to work Felicity's dad in, so it seemed as if her dad was not any of the big names they were talking about this weekend (DD, Mr. Terrific (obviously), or Anarky). So it's not that I think he won't come into play, I just don't think he's DD or Anarky. Even if WM was trying not to give too much away, she could've just said he'd be coming at some point, and that they were working on it.  

[Angel12d]

It's just that when WM mentioned that other big DC names would be appearing (Mr. Terrific and Anarky - whose names she didn't mention at the interview), she said they were trying to work Felicity's dad in, so it seemed as if her dad was not any of the big names they were talking about this weekend (DD, Mr. Terrific (obviously), or Anarky). So it's not that I think he won't come into play, I just don't think he's DD or Anarky. Even if WM was trying not to give too much away, she could've just said he'd be coming at some point, and that they were working on it.  

 

That's true. I think anything is possible. I'm just speculating. I'd actually be very okay with her dad not being a name someone recognizes because I do like the idea that Felicity is special in her own right, not because of who her parents are. So it honestly wouldn't matter to me. The same way I would not be surprised if her storyline gets pushed back, yet again for all these masks. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yeah, I'm torn between thinking none of the announced comic characters is Felicity's dad AND thinking the EPs are giving us misdirection. I keep going back to what David had said repeatedly at cons, that it would make sense for fans when they finally get to meet Felicity's dad this season. He just seemed so sure (and even ended that panel in UK with a mic drop after that statement).

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, he was very sure of who Felicity's dad is. It's just that he can know who he is even though he still hasn't been worked into the story. 

 

If it's not misdirection, hopefully they do get him in there. It seems like Emily was a little worried that they were going to put it off again this season since she brought it up a few times. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

EBR did seem confident that MamaSmoak is coming back. Looking forward to that, but I do hope she is used better this time around that 3.18. And absolutely no SmoaknLance. It's cute in theory. Distubing in reality. To me at least.

 

Definitely disturbing in reality. But on TV with limited characters/dynamics to play with, I'm OK with it. I guess I like the idea of Felicity's horror at straitlaced Quentin with her slightly out there mom, Quentin finally getting another chance at love (and Paul Blackthorne getting to interact with another female character), Oliver on his absolute best behavior during family dinners, etc.

[DrSpaceman10]

In an interview, Wendy Mericle said that family is the main theme of S4 and she also mentioned exploring Diggle and Felicity's families. I hope that some of the lack of information about Felicity's father is misdirection, because it'd be nice for once to have Diggle/Felicity take precedence over masks and spin-offs. Plus, I don't see how they could do family as a theme and then not explore Diggle/Andy/H.I.V.E. and Felicity's father. 

 

Also, wouldn't they have most of the arcs of S4 at least roughly outlined by now? If these stories were going to be at all important to the season, they'd mostly know about how they were going to work them in already. 

[kismet]

It could be that they all know who he is, just that the EPs haven't figured out how to work him into the story yet. 

 

 

They could, but from the IGN interview, WM made it seem like Felicity's dad isn't anyone who's already slated to appear.

My interpretation was that they knew who, but are not sure how to integrate him just yet into the current arcs. They are definitely keeping the ID very secret, so they might have used different wordage throughout the interviews just to keep from saying the same things.

 

I love DR but I'm more likely to trust the EPs leads at this point. They might have fed him information that they have just changed. I sorta wonder if they had one villain/person in mind at towards the end of s3 & then changed it after they reevaluated their plans. I think they might have wanted it to be DD but have since thought that might habe been too predictable or perhaps thought they could write a better arc for both DD/FS if they had them not father/daughter.

 

Either way - I want it done well, so if it needs to be pushed I'm OK with that so long as it gets done well. What I don't want is FS just propping her villianous father for plot purposes. I can be patient. I think FS & Arrow will have a full s4a with LoT. They are better off not squeezing stuff in just to check off the box.

Edited July 13, 2015 by kismet

[calliope1975]

But see, I don't want Quentin and Donna to have a relationship. I want them to have secret sex. And not secret as in turning into a twisty plot point when the kids find out, but as in SECRET forever and never ever, nobody else will know. But them. And the audience. Yes.

 

It could be like Buffy where it happens off-screen, is mentioned once making everyone uncomfortable, and is never mentioned again. 

[AyChihuahua]

It could be like Buffy where it happens off-screen, is mentioned once making everyone uncomfortable, and is never mentioned again.

To my ETERNAL chagrin, because Rupert Giles was easily the hottest man on BtVS. Easily.

[Tallis]

Hah! Funnily enough, I just watched Band Candy this afternoon. I had to force myself not to watch Earshot right after just for Buffy's closing line and Giles walking into the tree.

[AyChihuahua]

I may watch the episodes in which Giles is "bad," kind of a lot. You know, for science.

I like where they're going with Digg and his issues with Oliver. For two reasons: (1) I think the whole team (prob minus Thea) has every right to be pissed at him, really pissed, so I'm glad that at least someone is. (Aside, I love how Laurel has pretty much not forgiven anyone for anything, ever, but she instantly forgives Oliver for keeping his plan from them, making them think he'd gone evil, and making them think he was letting them all die. Laurel Lance, forgiving actual real trespasses since May 2015.)

(2) There is this one Josh and Drake episode, although I swear I didn't usually watch that show, but the chubby one got screwed over by the other one, and when he finally told off the other one, he said, to paraphrase: "I'm not mad at you; I'm done with you." I always thought that was a powerful, killer line. At some point, you can just be done with someone. I am sure Digg will move past it at some point, but if it were realistic I bet he would never forget it.

[kismet]

I haven't had time to catch up on every PB interview, so I have no idea how he was talking about SmoaknLance. I will say that I would not mind if they got them together. I understand there might be some awkwardness with the whole Lance family drama, but I think they can overcome that. I always enjoyed FS & QL scenes, so I would love to see them interact more. I actually wouldn't mind if that then also included MS.

 

What I don't want to happen is MS being brought back solely to be QL's LI. I think they wasted her in 318 or was it 319 (I can't even remember, that's how little her impact was). She can be more than sexualized comic relief. I do think QL deserves some fun & happiness, and MS may help bring that. I like when QL gets to show his warmer side & not just his inner mean guy. QL & MS could balance each other with their extremes. Its not something I absolutely need to see, but I think it would be fun. Even if they kept their interactions platonic, it would still be fun. Part of me wonders if they could have their relationship or friendship build from something occurring with PapaSmoak.

[foreverevolving]

Saw this on Twitter:

 

 

https://twitter.com/DJ_Traxi/status/621011433493544961

 

so.. should we keep an eye out on where several LoT stars are at this week?

[tv echo]

Regarding the spoiler that 4x01 will end in a shocking scene...

 

In his SDCC press roundtable interview, AK said that the ramifications of what happened in the Flash finale will play out on Arrow.  So I'm wondering if they will indeed use Barry's time travel trip to change something that happened on Arrow in S3 - and that's what will be revealed in 4x01.

 

Alternatively - in one of her SDCC interviews, WM said that Damien Darhk will not be metahuman but will have a lot of power.  What if his power is a tech/magic combo?  And he uses that power to change something?

Edited July 14, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Is it possibly tied to the Felicity twist in 401?  Wasn't that supposed to be at the end of the episode?  

 

I now fear for Felicity, please tell me I'm wrong.  

 

BTW - I don't mean Felicity death but secretly evil or working with HIVE to add angst or some other dumbshittery.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

I am concerned. The last, shocking scene of S3E1 resulted in me coming very close to quitting Arrow. I really hope they've thought through this new shocker. Is it epic? Or a gamechanger? /sideeye

[Starfish35]

Way to instill a sense of dread. :(

[Angel12d]

Hmm. My immediate thought to that was something involving Felicity. Not death because I don't see how her dying makes it a lighter season. I don't think I'd buy her having worked for H.I.V.E. this whole time either. I can't think what it could be though. 

[lemotomato]

Maybe our Felicity was replaced by an evil alternate universe Felicity at some point. Because after ripping off Batman storylines, why not steal from Superman too?

[apinknightmare]

Since O&F continued on their road trip, I really don't understand how the ramifications of the singularity over on The Flash can play out on Arrow if it's got anything to do with time shifts (which I assumed it did considering the EPs were talking about the show exploring multiverses). But then again, maybe that's how Rip Hunter comes into play?

I still think Laurel's either going to temporarily die or get sucked into some weird time vortex, thus fullfilling KC's assertion that Laurel is key to getting the LoT gang started on their little quest. I don't believe this show could ever be "light," but it can be lighter, and still kind of depressing. Not sure what the shocker could be, but hopefully it's a situational kind of shocker instead of a THIS CHARACTER DIES or THIS CHARACTER'S LIFE IS TERRIBLE, NO HAPPINESS FOR YOU kind of thing.

[Sakura12]

Sounds like their lighter, happier season is off to a good start. I suppose it's good they are warning ahead of time. Because after Sara's dumpster dive I don't want to see any more of their depressing shocking episode endings. 

 

Maybe Sara comes out of the LP and kills Laurel, then The Flash resets time and they are able to stop Sara from finishing the job. 

[BkWurm1]

I still think Laurel's either going to temporarily die or get sucked into some weird time vortex, thus fullfilling KC's assertion that Laurel is key to getting the LoT gang started on their little quest.

 

This is my thought as well.  Bigger shock than Sara dying.  The only thing that came to my mind was Laurel dying or getting sucked into an alternate world? 

 

I ALMOST made it through Comic-con without the dread taking hold but it's here now and it is strong.  That said I'm still hoping the "twist" with Felicity is that she's been secretly working with Digggle and Co. 

[apinknightmare]

I think Felicity worknig with the team behind Oliver's back is kind of likely, especially since she left them there without anyone to run the technological show, and also because of SA's comments about Felicity being the restless one between the two of them. I also think the twist could have something to do with her figuring out something to do with Ray's mini-ness.

[tv echo]

I read somewhere that, while Arrow picks up about 5 months later, Flash picks up from its S1 finale right away.  So I'm unclear as to how the Flash singularity could affect Arrow unless it's a delayed ramification or something not revealed until 5 months later.  Or the singularity causes Flash to jump forward 5 months in time so that the two shows line up again in time for the two-part crossovers in December (ep. 8 of both shows).

Edited July 14, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Oh, man. Are we going to get an alternate universe EVIL!Arrow team member that's, like, kidnapped the real team member and locked them in a safe location ala Mad Eye Moody?

[Sakura12]

How is Felicity working with Team Not-Arrow a tissue ready twist? 

 

I also wouldn't consider that much of a twist since I'd assume they'd call Felicity with tech questions anyway. As for not telling Oliver about it. He is the dumbass that thinks he can't be Oliver in and out his costume. Which we'll probably have to see him learn again. "I can't be Oliver and the Arrow unless I'm make myself a turtle suit with shoulder pads" 

Edited July 14, 2015 by Sakura12

[Angel12d]

With all this talk of magic and mysticism, I wouldn't be surprised if we get Alt world or time travel stuff. And considering they didn't tell us anything about Laurel (and KC said she plays a big role in LoT) then I'd say it involves her. 

[apinknightmare]

How is Felicity working with Team Not-Arrow a tissue ready twist?

I also wouldn't consider that much of a twist since I'd assume they'd call Felicity with tech questions anyway.

It's not a tissue-ready twist. From the interviews this weekend - there's a twist with Felicity, and from somewhere (I can't figure out which interview), we're supposed to need tissues for some reason.

[tv echo]

IIRC, SA said (in a tweet?) that when he read the script for 4x01, his jaw dropped twice - so there's two twists or surprises in the first episode.  I'm guessing a minor twist and then the last scene shocker.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tv echo

[lexicon]

It's not a tissue-ready twist. From the interviews this weekend - there's a twist with Felicity, and from somewhere (I can't figure out which interview), we're supposed to need tissues for some reason.

 

The recently posted TVline interview with the cast is where the needing tissue spoilers emanate from.

[jay741982]

I really don't think they are making Felicity evil or anything talk about a way to kill the audience

[apinknightmare]

The recently posted TVline interview with the cast is where the needing tissue spoilers emanate from.

Thank you!

[SmallScreenDiva]

Did Emily just let slip that the last-scene shocker has something to do with Felicity? Just watched that TV Line interview and after Paul says that last scene will "haunt" the rest of the season, Emily goes "it's haunting me." Now, I'm really intrigued!

[tv echo]

OK - so I just watched the Seat42F interview with MG at SDCC, and he says outright that (1) time travel on LoT will not be used to retcon Arrow, and (2) the whole Sara resurrection story will be covered on Arrow.

Edited July 14, 2015 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I think "haunt" is an unfortunate word to use, because they could mean it in a disturbing way, or that it's just something that keeps coming up throughout the rest of the season.

Edited July 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

Damien could be her father or grandfather after all. I seen someone on twitter suggest that DD kills Olivers Baby Mama and takes Junior under his wing?

[apinknightmare]

I don't think DD is related to Felicity, unless WM was trying to throw a curveball by saying they're still trying to figure out how to work her father into the story.

Edited July 14, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

Damien could be her father or grandfather after all. I seen someone on twitter suggest that DD kills Olivers Baby Mama and takes Junior under his wing?

 

That's a horrible idea and I'm a horrible person because if it allows me to avoid baby mama drama, I'm all for it. 

 

I am curious, though. All the ideas I can think of are pretty terrible, and after last year, I would hope they would avoid the kind of downer beginning to a season such as Sara's death. 

[BkWurm1]

Maybe Rip Hunter takes the wrong Black Canary?

[apinknightmare]

Given that we know Felicity has a hand in "bringing Ray back onto the show," per WM, I wonder if one of the twists is that she's known all along he wasn't dead/is miniature?

I mean, I can't think of any twists with her that would truly shock me that don't suck or aren't made of DO NOT WANT, so I'm sticking with these easy ones that don't make my stomach hurt.

[kismet]

Jinx lexicon! I was literally going to post the TVline interview just as you did :)

 

That is the first interview that makes my feel a little dread coming up. I speculate that it has something to do with the Lances... KC seemed pretty bored throughout the interview (as did most of them) but her eyes got all sparkly & devious when they mentioned the end shocker & a WC/BC fight. Also the fact the PB was one of the first to really hype it also lends me to think it is about either SL or LL.

 

EBR said it haunts her too, but she seemed to be talking about it more observationally as opposed to having to experience it herself which makes me think the major shocker is not related to FS. Perhaps the tiny shocker is.

[dtissagirl]

If someone's secretly evil, can I bet on Thea?

 

 

I read somewhere that, while Arrow picks up about 5 months later, Flash picks up from its S1 finale right away.  So I'm unclear as to how the Flash singularity could affect Arrow unless it's a delayed ramification or something not revealed until 5 months later.  Or the singularity causes Flash to jump forward 5 months in time so that the two shows line up again in time for the two-part crossovers in December (ep. 8 of both shows).

 

Please excuse my pernickety nature, but singularities can slow down time for the people caught in its gravity field, which would be The Flash folks. If one thing, the black hole would widen the time difference between the two shows, if for some reason only Central City is affected by it, but not anyone not there [lol, omg, so much dumb].

 

I'm pretty sure they're gonna fuck up the science of it all because they were dumbasses who wanted time travel AND black holes at the same time, but there's a limit to my suspension of disbelief, and SCIENCE FACTS are it. :)

[Happy Harpy]

I am concerned. The last, shocking scene of S3E1 resulted in me coming very close to quitting Arrow. I really hope they've thought through this new shocker. Is it epic? Or a gamechanger? /sideeye

Concerned x 10.000.

Seriously.

Don't they have PR people? Do they realize that pulling a Calm 2.0 could be detrimental to the show? They had to retcon Sara's death after they freaking literally fridged her, FGS!  Imo, the show is on probation with a certain part of the audience and pulling another "Gotcha" unpleasant stunt would be a bad idea.

 

I, for one, am not sitting through another fuckery ruining Team Arrow or a character I care about after the wreck that was S3. Nope. I love the cast and O/D/F to bits, but I don't have the energy. I watched the grand total of 5 episodes last season. After the things that transpired about S4, especially the Diggle/Felicity as almost co-leads bit, I was ready to watch regularly again. After this? Back to square one. I'll see what the season opener has to offer beforehand.

 

If it's about Laurel? Lesser evil. It wouldn't be the first time that they'd hype something about Laurel, which in the end wouldn't gather much shock or interest -or not positive for her.

For example, Felicity sees Laurel "die" and it haunts her because she's still a good-heated person and the writers told me that she and Laurel are friends now (yeah, right). Actually, it would be rather good news for me because it would mean one or maybe two episode without Buckles -ideal: Sara is back in her stead as the Arrow version of Black (White, Pink, Green, whatever, she's the rightful one) Canary. 

I've already been teased with Laurel's death in the S1 finale (which made me I realize a) I actually wanted her gone and b) it could actually happen) so it would eventually be a disappointing twist unless she's actually shipped off to the spinoff.

Yet, I'd take a the disappointment over any other "tissue-worthy", straw-that-breaks-the-camel-back option.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[dtissagirl]

I rewatched the TVLine interview just to get a better sense of what that "haunt" meant, and it made me think it's something SCARY, and not depressing. Maybe it's the first glance we get at DD's powers, or something like that.

[AyChihuahua]

I think they are probably two separate things. The Felicity twist is that she's not given up on being a vigilante, and the final thing is Sara's return, possibly (temporarily) evil/insane. Thea wasn't actually dead and she was a bit angry/nuts temporarily, while Sara has presumably been dead and decomposing for a year, so she could be a lot crazier. That's fine with me, because she'll eventually be good again and while I love Sara it won't kill me to see her be bad for a bit (plus Caity Lotz gives surprisingly good evil face based on those Canaries pics).

Let's be real, they're not killing off Felicity, because ratings would dive, and they're not killing off Laurel, because...well, if Laurel had been killed off, KC would not be so cheerful at Comic-Con. It could even be happy tears, if Sara's back and more or less okay, and we see her reunite with her family (at least for other viewers, IDGAF about Quentin or Laurel anymore, in fact I think Quentin is loathsome--hitting a handcuffed prisoner is police brutality and a civil rights violation, and his reaction to Roy's "death" made me sick).

[Belinea]

I looks like they learned a lot from their big surprising twist last year... 

 

I have to say that I am really not a fan of alternate realities. It is just too sci-fi for me. It can exist on the Flash and LoT but I don't want it to be on Arrow. They can go crazy somewhere else. 

 

I do hope they realize that turning Felicity or Diggle evil would really be the dumbest thing to do. It would crush my heart a little and I'd be seriously offended that they made me love them only to break my heart. But since their stories should have more importance this year, I hope it is not the case.

 

I also hope that they find a way to make O/F work and not have them break up halfway through. This is actually something I am unsure of. In theory their relationship should work. Because I doubt they are the type of people who break up over random things and I don't want them to break up over something big because I don't think they are the on-off again type once it has already been a serious relationship. So where to go from there? (And I am still not convinced that O/L is off the table completely, even though I hope it is)

 

Or we find out that Thea is killing people instead of helping the city.... 

 

That said, I am excited to see Sara return. No matter how crazy she is. Maybe Nyssa resurrects her and Sara kills her because she doesn't recognize her. (I have nothing to base this on, but something like that would shock me.)

Edited July 14, 2015 by Belinea

[NoWayOut]

Given that we know Felicity has a hand in "bringing Ray back onto the show," per WM, I wonder if one of the twists is that she's known all along he wasn't dead/is miniature?

I mean, I can't think of any twists with her that would truly shock me that don't suck or aren't made of DO NOT WANT, so I'm sticking with these easy ones that don't make my stomach hurt.

Maybe the Felicity twist is bringing Ray back onto the show. That's it! That's the twist! Or maybe miniature Ray ended up in Felicity's pocket somehow and he's been tagging along with Olicity on their travels for the entire 5 months! Shocker! Epic!

 

I just don't want any of the twists to involve a dead-no-just kidding-not-really-dead death. I'm over those.

 

That said, I'm excited to have Sara back and I'm interested in the circumstances in which she'll return.

[NumberCruncher]

The word "haunt" makes me thing it has something to do with the after-effects of Thea's Lazarus Pit resurrection. Stephen again brought up that nobody is the same after a dip in the LPs and strongly hinted some cray-cray will happen with Thea. As to what exactly that entails is anyone's guess.