Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

Actually I'm pretty sure that diggle is going to be getting a mask next season. And now the unmasked people on the show is being threatened into extinction. The only two people left are Quentin and Felicity. How sad.

[tarotx]

I think we will mostly know Oliver is Oliver. But perhaps team Arrow doesn't and ends up causing hell to break loose and the virus to get leashed by some one Maseo or Melcolm? All because Oliver doesn't trust his friends enough nor likes himself enough to let then risk their lives for him? That has been one of the them of Arrow.

[Soulfire]

This is probably going to end up meaning nothing, but considering everyone's "enthusiasm" for tonight's episode I thought I'd distract a moment.

 

I was rewatching 3x20 last week. Not ashamed to admit I had the "Let's not say goodbye this time" scene on repeat a few times, because, hey, apparently I like kicking my heart in the ass. Anyway, when watching I noticed that in the shot where Felicity walks away from Oliver she seems to have something in her right hand. I'm wondering what that might be -- if it's just a goof and it's something like EBR's phone or if it might be of significance later, a la the 2x23 insta-flashbacks to Oliver discovering Slade's planted bugs?

 

What argues against that and in favor of it being, well, a goof, is that in the shot right before where Felicity parts from Oliver she appears to have nothing in her hand. Posting a few screencaps and you can judge on your own --

 

 

 

 

What do you guys think? Goof or or something else?

 

ETA: I realized after posting maybe this should've gone in the episode thread. Sorry, Mods. Feel free to move it.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Soulfire

[apinknightmare]

I think it's just the light reflecting off the buttons on the cuff of her jacket.

[jay741982]

I'm just glad this season has been spoiled to high heaven. If I had walked into this season blind, I probably would have thrown something large and heavy at my TV. Skipping episodes saved my sanity.

I'm down with Felicity exposing herself to the virus to save people. She's always been self sacrificing. My girl's a big damn hero.

Don't care if Ra's is evil, this sham of a wedding will never be anything other than gross and homophobic. MG can save his breath trying to justify this Batman ripoff. Not a good look.

I'm so Down with Felicity doing that as well. She's a badass Boss Bitch and A hero. She can survive and in the last minutes her and Oliver can have that second date/Vacation where Oliver spoils her rotten for being a big hero LOL

[NoWayOut]

I don't think this season will end on a low note after everything we've been subjected to so we better get more than 5 minutes of happiness in the finale before the credits roll.

[apinknightmare]

So, I'm hoping the team is craftier than to just randomly unleash a virus that they're specifically going to NP to stop the spread of, so here's what I'm also hoping:

 

Nyssa informed Felicity and team of the virus, and left it in SC. She had a fake (possibly passable) version of it in her sword - that's what Ra's has in his possession. They hear that Ra's is going to unleash it on Starling, and knowing that he'll find out it's not real and probably murder the hell out of everyone once he does, they'll return with the real virus, having been inoculated thanks to Caitlin and Cisco. They return to NP with the real virus, intent on letting it go in NP and ending the LoA.

 

I can't decide if Ra's, Nyssa and Oliver get on the plane thinking they have the virus, and Oliver thinks he's leaving them behind somewhat safe, or if he's on the plane and fleeing like a complete tool knowing it's been spread. If he doesn't realize they have the fake version, I want them to show Felicity or someone holding up the vial once Oliver's already on the plane, and then he realizes what's happening and then frantically tries to get out to stop her, even though she's and the rest of the team have been inoculated, but he doesn't know that. 

 

Or maybe he does know that, and we just think he's being all heartless and shitty and come to find out in the finale that he's aware that they're going to be okay but the rest of the LoA is gonna die. That would make the most sense with him going to CC on Tuesday.

Edited May 6, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Genki]

The fact that they are dragging out Akio's death may play into it. Last week showed that Akio was infected and I assume this week will show how they tried, but ultimately failed, to save him. So if someone is infected I assume they will show the shot of blood like with Akio at the end of the episode and then the finale will be a successful save, especially if it is Felicity.

I assume Oliver, Tatsu & Maseo are immune.

I'm worried that because they were successful in being so dark in The 100 final episode they may repeat it on Arrow. I don't need that.

I was thinking that "this is your sword" would be an ultimately hopeful episode based on lyrics, but now I dread it.

Next year's theme better be "balance".

[Guest]

I wonder if Nyssa, Oliver and Maseo (or maybe just Nyssa and Oliver) had a little secret pow wow on the plane ride back to NP from Starling in 321 and they came up with a plan? Because I was thinking that Oliver had to look like he was about to kill Nyssa to prove his loyalty to Ra's and Nyssa had to know that would happen. And I wonder if she had a feeling she might get given some kind of reprieve because she is his daughter. I'm not saying she knew she'd have to marry Oliver, but it's possible they're already in cahoots.

[AyChihuahua]

The 100 is a totally different show.  It's dystopic sci-fi...Arrow is a superhero show.  They can only go so dark with a superhero.  

[catahoulamama]

Pretty sure the "birth of a major DC superhero" on tonight's episode is likely Tatsu becoming Katana. That's gonna be a bright spot AFAIC.  She's a BAMF who knows her way around a sword fight.

[kismet]

Gosh, everyone was busy with the postings today! To catch up:

 

Deaths ~ Agree that both Akio & Maseo will die tonight. I have a feeling they will give Maseo a hero turn right at the end, so it will be more gut wrenching.

 

Wedding ~ Totally disagree with forced marriages. And yes MG I understand that Ras is evil... but can't you have someone on the show at least address is a one-liner how wrong the concept is on multiple layers? Because I feel like being optimistic, I will hold out belief that the writers will do that this episode since TA will be in NP. It will not erase the insensitivity burn, but like applying aloe it might help soothe the pain.

 

Virus ~ Its gonna get released & sadly I sorta want to see what happens. When the virus got released on Alias it made for an entertaining few episodes.

 

Felicity~ RP is going to give her control over Applied Sciences. I bet the company will restructure & SC will only be Applied Sci, therefore FS is in control of the SC branches, but the writers don't have to worry about the other divisions since they're moving out of town. I'd laugh if the writers got some poetic justice and made OQ her EA, he needs a job & it keeps him close for when he restarts his extracurricular night activities.

 

Felicity hurt/dead/contaminated ~ Think she'll have some role in the antidote, if she doesn't already. Her working with Nyssa beforehand about the virus would be be a good turn of hand by the writers, it might be a predictable but welcome twist. Would like to see her actually injured/exposed & OQ have to do something to save her that does not require the LP, but can't see how they could fit it in in 2 eps. Honestly, they should just wait until s4 to have FS almost dying/OQ freak out mode.

 

Diggle - Way overdramatic reaction to the kidnapping. Still holding out that the tension in s4 will be unrelated to the kidnapping. It might be worsened by this experience, but it is not the source. The reaction does not compute with me either for the reasons many of you have said.

 

Malcolm - About damn time we get to see him be worthwhile & enjoyable on the show again. Bring on the villainy!

[nksarmi]

Help me here, but if This is Your Sword is important - Oliver recently said, his bow isn't his weapon - he is the weapon. But isn't there some line in a past episode about love being a sword (as opposed to a bullet to the brain)?  I could be mixing up shows lol.

[catrox14]

Help me here, but if This is Your Sword is important - Oliver recently said, his bow isn't his weapon - he is the weapon. But isn't there some line in a past episode about love being a sword (as opposed to a bullet to the brain)?  I could be mixing up shows lol.

 

Oh his sword is gonna get some love.....from Felicity!

[SleepDeprived]

Oh his sword is gonna get some love.....from Felicity!

 

His sword already got that lovin'. Couple of episodes ago with all that grinding and thrusting that will forever be immortalized in slow-mo gifs and background-music-less videos on Tumblr and YouTube. Hah.

 

Because I feel like being optimistic, I will hold out belief that the writers will do that this episode since TA will be in NP. It will not erase the insensitivity burn, but like applying aloe it might help soothe the pain.

 

Don't you mean you feel like being sanguine? ;) Someone in the writer's room pressed Shift+F7 one too many times while writing the script.

 

I wonder if Maseo dies by Tatsu's sword or Oliver's or Ra's. Doesn't Katana have a magical sword possessed by Maseo's spirit in the comics? But I think the major DC superhero to be born this episode is Thea as Speedy. Doesn't Thea attempt to give him back his Arsenal suit or something? Which, by the way, how'd she get a hold of that? Didn't SCPD impound most things in the foundry? Roy will probably tell her to keep it and sort of give his blessing. Thea will probably be wearing it, after it's been tailored to fit her, of course, in the finale, like that paparazzo said they witnessed when she was shooting scenes with Diggle/David Ramsey in SC.

[kismet]

His sword already got that lovin'. Couple of episodes ago with all that grinding and thrusting that will forever be immortalized in slow-mo gifs and background-music-less videos on Tumblr and YouTube. Hah.

 

 

Don't you mean you feel like being sanguine? ;) Someone in the writer's room pressed Shift+F7 one too many times while writing the script.

 

I wonder if Maseo dies by Tatsu's sword or Oliver's or Ra's. Doesn't Katana have a magical sword possessed by Maseo's spirit in the comics? But I think the major DC superhero to be born this episode is Thea as Speedy. Doesn't Thea attempt to give him back his Arsenal suit or something? Which, by the way, how'd she get a hold of that? Didn't SCPD impound most things in the foundry? Roy will probably tell her to keep it and sort of give his blessing. Thea will probably be wearing it, after it's been tailored to fit her, of course, in the finale, like that paparazzo said they witnessed when she was shooting scenes with Diggle/David Ramsey in SC.

Yes I am sanguine :)  ... Only few more minutes before it will probably all be shot to hell anyway :)

[catrox14]

 

His sword already got that lovin'. Couple of episodes ago with all that grinding and thrusting that will forever be immortalized in slow-mo gifs and background-music-less videos on Tumblr and YouTube. Hah.

 

And she' s gonna get more!  That's more story and I'm sticking to it.  (And sorry CW, that is not the most explicit sex scene on your network. Supernatural beat you a long time ago) but it was beautiful and lovely.

[TanyaKay]

Both Tatsu/Katana and Lyla are 50 times more badass than Buckle Canary.

[Danny Franks]

This show seems to be the only iteration in the history of popular culture to have characters who go, 'welp.... Brainwashed. That's it, there's no hope for him. He's effectively dead.'

What a strange direction to take your characters in. Talk about making them look like complete morons.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Danny Franks

[nksarmi]

What the heck? Does malcolm have an evil, evil twin? Because the movement between np and sc is getting lightning fast.

[jay741982]

We only know that Diggle and Oliver will be at odds going into next season right Maybe Laurel too? I'm thinking after tonight Oliver might be in the doghouse with his woman lol maybe he does some serious groveling next season

We only know that Diggle and Oliver will be at odds going into next season right Maybe Laurel too? I'm thinking after tonight Oliver might be in the doghouse with his woman lol maybe he does some serious groveling next week

Edited May 7, 2015 by jay741982

[Morrigan2575]

I wonder how long it's going to be before olicity fans realize they got royally fucked in this episode?

[statsgirl]

I really hope Felicity doesn't forgive Oliver for what ever trick he pulled there.

 

I wonder how long it's going to be before olicity fans realize they got royally fucked in this episode?

Two minutes before the end for me.  Tiffany Vogt was right, the marriage was nothing compared to the awfulness of leaving Felicity and Diggle to die, or even thinking they were going to die.

 

When Barry said "Oliver needs you" in the promo, I hope Diggle and Felicity say "He can just go eff himself".

[Guest]

I wonder how long it's going to be before olicity fans realize they got royally fucked in this episode?

 

How hard are you talking here?

 

LOL. I couldn't resist. What do you mean?

[wonderwall]

I wonder how long it's going to be before olicity fans realize they got royally fucked in this episode?

 

Oh there are people who are already upset. If Felicity forgives Oliver just like that it won't reflect well on her character, but if the season ends on a bad not for Olicity they're also screwed. They're between a rock and a hard place. I wonder how the writers will get themselves out of this one

[Morrigan2575]

How hard are you talking here?

LOL. I couldn't resist. What do you mean?

Well, I'm pretty sure this marriage is permanent (to an extent). The only reason (other than ripping off batman) is to keep Olicity apart or break them up in S4. It might not be legal but im sure there's some bullshit reason to keep Oliver tied to Nyssa the vows and traditions of the LoA are scared...

Basically it's a twisted version of Viper/Wolverine.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[jay741982]

I really hope Felicity doesn't forgive Oliver for what ever trick he pulled there.

 

Two minutes before the end for me.  Tiffany Vogt was right, the marriage was nothing compared to the awfulness of leaving Felicity and Diggle to die, or even thinking they were going to die.

 

When Barry said "Oliver needs you" in the promo, I hope Diggle and Felicity say "He can just go eff himself".

Well they didn't die so obviously it was not a real virus

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder how long it's going to be before olicity fans realize they got royally fucked in this episode?

Goes along with my theory that they're ruining Olicity on purpose.  They ruined Felicity for me awhile ago, which basically ruined Olicity.  But now they've also ruined Oliver.  I just so don't understand why people keep watching this show.

 

Well, I'm pretty sure this marriage is permanent. The only reason (other than ripping off batman) is to keep Olicity apart or break them up in S4. It.might not be.legal but im sure there's some bullshit reason to keep Oliver tied to Nyssa the vows and traditions are scared.

Oh, I meant more because of making Felicity et al., think he just walked away while they died.  I would tell him to fuck off forever for that.  Re Nyssa, the marriage is DEFINITELY not legal, plus they're not going to have the "hero" married to a recurring character.  Plus, it's not like Oliver gives a shit about LOA rules, and it's not like Nyssa wants to be married to a dude.

Edited May 7, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

Well, I'm pretty sure this marriage is permanent (to an extent). The only reason (other than ripping off batman) is to keep Olicity apart or break them up in S4. It might not be legal but im sure there's some bullshit reason to keep Oliver tied to Nyssa the vows and traditions of the LoA are scared...

 

Meh, I don't think it's as permanent as people think it is because it's hard to believe so when MG says that he doesn't know if the marriage is going to make it to season 4. I think Nyssa and Oliver are well past caring about the LoA customs at this point to actually stick to it.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I don't understand how Felicity rides off into the sunset with Oliver when he just let them all believe they were fucking dying from a lethal virus (I don't think they know that this is a fake virus, based on Diggle and Felicity's goodbyes).  That may be worse than anything else that happened in this entire episode.

[AyChihuahua]

Well they didn't die so obviously it was not a real virus

Yeah, but they don't know that.  The man she loves, who supposedly loves her, made her think she and all her loved ones were dying while he coldly walked away.  At least IRL, no relationship would survive that.

[Morrigan2575]

Meh, I don't think it's as permanent as people think it is because it's hard to believe so when MG says that he doesn't know if the marriage is going to make it to season 4. I think Nyssa and Oliver are well past caring about the LoA customs at this point to actually stick to it.

Guess it'll be awhile then...

[jay741982]

That's the thing I don't understand how MG thinks Viewers Will tune in even more for Season 4 with this crap he is writing. I love Olicity but I realized watching the end that I can't see how Felicity DOESN'T put him in the doghouse next week. And I can't understand how He thinks we want to see the season end with Oliver and his team not together I don't get it. I want Olicity together but something has to happen next week to SIGH I just don't know

[apinknightmare]

Well, I'm pretty sure this marriage is permanent (to an extent). The only reason (other than ripping off batman) is to keep Olicity apart or break them up in S4. It might not be legal but im sure there's some bullshit reason to keep Oliver tied to Nyssa the vows and traditions of the LoA are scared...

 

Why would it be? Is Nyssa suddenly going to stop being a lesbian and want to make it work with Oliver? 

[Guest]

Well, I'm pretty sure this marriage is permanent (to an extent). The only reason (other than ripping off batman) is to keep Olicity apart or break them up in S4. It might not be legal but im sure there's some bullshit reason to keep Oliver tied to Nyssa the vows and traditions of the LoA are scared...

Basically it's a twisted version of Viper/Wolverine.

 

Ah okay. Aside from its gross implications, I couldn't care less about this marriage. They don't love each other, it's not legal. It's pointless, as all things go. Even if they do use it to keep Olicity apart, I don't see that lasting. But that's just me. 

[statsgirl]

Well they didn't die so obviously it was not a real virus

But they thought they were going to.  They really believed they were going to die and Oliver just walked off to get married.

 

I don't understand how Felicity rides off into the sunset with Oliver when he just let them all believe they were fucking dying from a lethal virus (I don't think they know that this is a fake virus, based on Diggle and Felicity's goodbyes).  That may be worse than anything else that happened in this entire episode.

Yeah. It's utterly unforgivable to do that to anyone. PTSD +++ 

There's no way they can have Oliver and Felicity end on a good note without making her into the worst wimp.

[jay741982]

Yeah, but they don't know that.  The man she loves, who supposedly loves her, made her think she and all her loved ones were dying while he coldly walked away.  At least IRL, no relationship would survive that.

LOL read my post above I don't see how Felicity forgives him so easily he will have to do a Hell of a lot of Groveling. No sex for him for a long time lol.

[Guest]

I don't understand how Felicity rides off into the sunset with Oliver when he just let them all believe they were fucking dying from a lethal virus (I don't think they know that this is a fake virus, based on Diggle and Felicity's goodbyes).  That may be worse than anything else that happened in this entire episode.

 

Yeah, how we get from this to the sunset ride is going to be interesting, that is if we do get one at all. Nothing is confirmed so I'm prepared for anything tbh.

[jay741982]

But they thought they were going to.  They really believed they were going to die and Oliver just walked off to get married.

 

Yeah. It's utterly unforgivable to do that to anyone. PTSD +++ 

There's no way they can have Oliver and Felicity end on a good note without making her into the worst wimp.

I know that I get it I posted that I really don't see how She doesn't stay mad at him until season 4 . I don't get why MG thinks we want all this darkness I want a happy end to the season dammit

[apinknightmare]

But they thought they were going to.  They really believed they were going to die and Oliver just walked off to get married.

 

I think the fact that he sends Barry to come and get them and the fact that he didn't kill them after he asked them to trust him and wound up just knocking them out will go a long way for her. In real life? Probably insurmountable. In a show where she's used to being bait and he even told her he loved her to fool a bad guy, not so much.

[AyChihuahua]

LOL read my post above I don't see how Felicity forgives him so easily he will have to do a Hell of a lot of Groveling. No sex for him for a long time lol.

I get that you're joking, but he apparently stood there while Ra's threw a vial of deadly virus at them and then walked away while she and everyone else BEGGED him to help them.  That isn't a groveling/dog house kind of thing.  That is unforgivable, and I don't really care what his greater plan is.  Especially when everything that has happened this season is somewhat his fault for protecting Malcolm instead of sending his head to Ra's in the first place.   

[dtissagirl]

It's actually hilarious for me because in the gritty grimdark grounded but totally imaginary show the EPs think they're making, Oliver's actions here would definitely be unforgivable, and I'd expect the other characters to react realistically.

But Revenge is more grounded in reality than Arrow right now. THE ROYALS is more grounded than Arrow, and that's a show about a fake British royal family. On acid. As it is, in the daytime soap-opera that Arrow actually is, I'm completely fine with Dig overreacting, and Felicity is totes gonna forgive Oliver next week, and I'll have no qualms whatsoever, because that's how I watch my soaps.

[jay741982]

I get that you're joking, but he apparently stood there while Ra's threw a vial of deadly virus at them and then walked away while she and everyone else BEGGED him to help them.  That isn't a groveling/dog house kind of thing.  That is unforgivable, and I don't really care what his greater plan is.  Especially when everything that has happened this season is somewhat his fault for protecting Malcolm instead of sending his head to Ra's in the first place.

It's why I have Probelms with MG's writing and his staff. I like Olicity I do but I'm even like damn I know we have to endure a rift in the Bromance but I was hoping nothing like how it ended would happen at all. I noticed that he looked only at Felicity and asked her to trust him but my god she loves him and what does it look like when Oliver did that? I've heard Nothing about him and Felicity having a rift going into next season

[blixie]

 

Yeah, but they don't know that.  The man she loves, who supposedly loves her, made her think she and all her loved ones were dying while he coldly walked away.

 

He said "trust me" like four fucking times, he made it totally clear he's not brainwashed and is enacting a sha-ROD, when exactly should they be expected to get a fucking CLUE that the man they know isn't about to let them DIE, and I'm kind of laughing now about Malcolm not telling them. When they wake up I can just imagine him saying "you should have SEEN your faces!" Ah camp, camp I can appreciate, and that shit tonight? CAMP.

 

As far as Diggle goes, of course I can buy he's ticked, and that this whole plan was violation of trust, but it's matter of degree, and I just don't see Diggle throwing a tantrum, or throwing three years of "brotherhood" under the bus, not to mention his usual tactical and strategic mind out the window because he can't get over Lyla's kidnapping (and infant Sara being UNSUPERVISED for unspecified amount of time, and who it's entirely possible Malcolm never took his eyes/ears off.)

 

I'm so glad they've moved on from Nolan's Batman to Adam West's because that one was a lot more fun.

Edited May 7, 2015 by blixie

[AyChihuahua]

It's why I have Probelms with MG's writing and his staff. I like Olicity I do but I'm even like damn I know we have to endure a rift in the Bromance but I was hoping nothing like how it ended would happen at all. I noticed that he looked only at Felicity and asked her to trust him but my god she loves him and what does it look like when Oliver did that? I've heard Nothing about him and Felicity having a rift going into next season

I would expect her to stop loving him after that.  No more issues with loving a complicated man, if she just stops loving him, because he's really kind of a stupid asshole.

[quarks]

Honestly, I think Felicity will either be:

 

1) Mad for one, maybe two scenes, then get over it.

 

2) Not angry at all and just happy to have Oliver back.

 

He wasn't angry with her for drugging him and trying to take him out of Nanda Parbat a couple of episodes ago, even though that got them killed. This time, he's drugged her as part of his scheme to bring down the LoA permanently. I'd think she'd be more angry about the Malcolm Merlyn teamup, actually.

[AyChihuahua]

I'm kind of laughing now about Malcolm not telling them. When they wake up I can just imagine him saying "you should have SEEN your faces!" Ah camp, camp I can appreciate, and that shit tonight? CAMP.

Okay, if that happens I'm cool with it.

 

They could have just cut the death convo between Felicity and Diggle and at least left it ambiguous.

[jay741982]

Honestly, I think Felicity will either be:

 

1) Mad for one, maybe two scenes, then get over it.

 

2) Not angry at all and just happy to have Oliver back.

 

He wasn't angry with her for drugging him and trying to take him out of Nanda Parbat a couple of episodes ago, even though that got them killed. This time, he's drugged her as part of his scheme to bring down the LoA permanently. I'd think she'd be more angry about the Malcolm Merlyn teamup, actually.

LOL good points actually. I still think Felicity should make him grovel next week. No nookie for you Mr Queen

[AyChihuahua]

Honestly, I think Felicity will either be:

 

1) Mad for one, maybe two scenes, then get over it.

 

2) Not angry at all and just happy to have Oliver back.

 

He wasn't angry with her for drugging him and trying to take him out of Nanda Parbat a couple of episodes ago, even though that got them killed. This time, he's drugged her as part of his scheme to bring down the LoA permanently. I'd think she'd be more angry about the Malcolm Merlyn teamup, actually.

She didn't make him think, for real, that she was killing him.

 

And the writers probably will have her forgive him, because it's the final episode and the writers can make anything they want happen.  BUT, I would prefer she tell him to fuck off and never speak to her again after that.

[Soulfire]

Agreed with @quarks. Then they'll have Nyssa disband/free Oliver from his marriage/union with her and Oliver's a single dude again, in time to end the season on a happy Olicity note.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Soulfire