apinknightmare April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Also, from the way they're talking about Thea in that clip, it seems like she does die. Link to comment
Sunshine April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Hmm...Would a Oliver/Diggle angsty arc move Diggle away from the team or would it provide more room for Black Canary to be integrated into the team? Link to comment
Belinea April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 If it is not a dream or a hallucination, Oliver and Felicity will be driving somewhere in the finale... The pictures (if they are present day) make it seem as though they'd have to be on somewhat good terms. As for the wedding: I really don't know who it could be. If it were just a wedding fine but if it is a marriage that were to mean people staying together and working on that or at least coexisting. Wouldn't people be upset if Oliver just had to marry a random stranger in the second to last episode of the season? (Not like the writers care that much) If he has to marry Nyssa, I doubt there'd be much of an actual marriage. And after watching Alias I know that people have a hard time forgiving writers for marrying off the male lead to someone unknown as an obstacle. (I know I truly hated that storyline) I cannot imagine that they'd let O/F get married. I would be so suprised if they'd go there. Because as of right know they are the only main characters (apart from Laurel) who fit some of the categories. I doubt it is Thea and Roy. You don't give a storyline closure by marrying off the characters. I simply don't know what to expect from that storyline. Maybe Laurel marries Nyssa... 1 Link to comment
Carrie Ann April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I'm assuming Thea's only being kept alive by machines, since the EMTs do bring her to the airport. But yeah, she might die for real before going into the LP. 1 Link to comment
Angel12d April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Wow. I actually believed Malcolm cared for Thea in that short clip. What's happening? Is it opposite day?! 4 Link to comment
wonderwall April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Wow. I actually believed Malcolm cared for Thea in that short clip. What's happening? Is it opposite day?! While I loathe Malcolm, John Barrowman is a fantastic actor. I give him kudos for that scene 2 Link to comment
blixie April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 or because these writers are terrible I feel pretty safe in saying that's the reason. The mind whammy also bothers me because WTF why did we just go through all this if Ra's could mind whammy him FFS!! I'd prefer the plan and leaving Diggle out of it(for again terrible writer reasons), and then he's forced to go to far to sell it somehow, so, irreversible changes to TA. Ugh. 1 Link to comment
looptab April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 After that clip I wanted to hug both Oliver and Malcolm. Malcolm! Crazy talk indeed. 1 Link to comment
Ariah April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 The only kind of protection Laurel can offer Nyssa is legally. And even that is laughable. My gods...the propping is still going on. ;) Nyssa to Ra's: "Wait dad, before you deal your punishment, you need to talk to my lawyer!" Laurel (jumping from the rooftop, semi-gracefully): "Mr Ghul, you are forbidden to be in a close proximity to my client!" Yes, I can see that. 11 Link to comment
Angel12d April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) Nyssa has Laurel's protection? Bahahaha. I laughed and laughed. How is that even remotely accurate, especially considering the ep description says she asks for Diggle and Felicity's help? So much propping. Aren't they all tired by now? While I loathe Malcolm, John Barrowman is a fantastic actor. I give him kudos for that scene Oh, me too. I love Barrowman. It's just I've never been quite convinced that he really cared as much as he said (or Barrowman said in interviews) but I felt it there, which is weird because it's his fault she's dead/near death in the first place. Edited April 21, 2015 by Angel12d 2 Link to comment
TanyaKay April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Can we really get any MORE spoiled at this point? The only thing we do not know at this point is the number of velvet pillows and scented candles in that Nanda Parbat Honeymoon suite. The rest - even the sequence of events - has been spoiled. Who breaks with whom, who says I love you, which moment is poignant and what not. Just the number of velvet pillows and scented candles ..... 2 Link to comment
Genki April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I thought about this when I posted about it not being sweeps yet. Makes me wonder what's happening in the final 3 episodes that hasn't been spoiled yet. I have that slight worry too. Last time they distracted the Fandom with Olicity (3.01) we got hit with Sara's death. 10 Link to comment
Menrva April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 The only kind of protection Laurel can offer Nyssa is legally. And even that is laughable. My gods...the propping is still going on. I don't know…Nyssa could use Laurel as a human shield. I'm all for that. In my most cynical heart of hearts, I fear that MG is going to give us a season of Oliver and Felicity happy together, then kill Felicity off and shove Laurel in her place, so they can still have GA/BC 4EVAH. Hey, Laurel learned how to be a kickass vigilante in 3 episodes, becoming a world-class hacker should take all of 3/4 of an episode. 6 Link to comment
quarks April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) Yes, quarks did at one point do a breakdown showing that in general, ratings/total viewers went down after positive things for Oliver/Laurel, and up after negative things for Oliver/Laurel, while ratings/total viewers went up after positive things for Oliver/Felicity, and down after negative things for Oliver/Felicity. That said, although these trends are incredibly consistent for Oliver/Laurel, to the point where it's the main reason for arguing that the show won't go back to that couple, those trends were never as consistent for Oliver/Felicity, as demonstrated by the last four episodes: Nanda Parbat, with total viewers 3.07. Ray sleeps with Felicity. Total viewers plunge to 2.56. The Offer, total viewers 2.56. Despite that, Oliver and Felicity are back to flirting. Total viewers climb to 2.86. (That said, given past trends on Arrow, this particular climb almost certainly had very little to do with Oliver and Felicity and everything to do with the next episode's focus on the popular Deadshot/Suicide Squad, so I think you guys can all feel free to ignore the "analysis" for this one.) Suicidal Tendencies, total viewers 2.86. Despite ample reason to break up with Ray, most notably that he electrocuted one of her friends, Felicity stays with Ray, somewhat countered when Felicity kisses Oliver on the cheek. Total viewers drop back down to 2.48. ...but to repeat, that's not always consistent with Oliver/Felicity: Public Enemy, total viewers 2.48. Ray says "I love you," Felicity says "Jello." Total viewers barely change, to 2.47. Based just on this, I'm not making any predictions about the ratings/total viewers for the rest of the season. Tomorrow is a particular crapshoot - yes, it's been very heavily promoted, yes, Oliver/Felicity sex - but against that, Roy just left the show and Thea was just "killed" - so that's at least two strikes against the ratings for tomorrow's episode, and the episode isn't featuring any particularly cool, popular guest stars like Deadshot or Nyssa. Precisely why I think the CW is promoting the hell out of it. Edited April 21, 2015 by quarks 4 Link to comment
looptab April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I don't know…Nyssa could use Laurel as a human shield. I'm all for that. The buckles are weapon-proof. That's why she is still alive! Link to comment
olicityfan25 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Ugh the episodes are the best when it's original team arrow. Link to comment
Velocity23 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 But the CW dont really care for total viewers as long as the demo is up. Link to comment
nksarmi April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 The only kind of protection Laurel can offer Nyssa is legally. And even that is laughable. My gods...the propping is still going on. Laurel could offer Nyssa a combination of hiding her and rallying the troops (Felicity, Diggle, Ray maybe?) to support her. I think it's a matter of not letting Nyssa face the League and EvilOlly alone. I will wait and see how this plays out because Laurel going "pretty far" for Oliver in 19 didn't amount to much in my opinion (Roy did WAY more). 1 Link to comment
kismet April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Well score another point for Oliver in the growth column! He finally acknowledges that Malcolm is responsible for losing Thea.... Of course its way too many episodes later. But I do love JB & SA together, so here's hoping they find MM something better to do in s4. Although they way he said "in the soul" probably earned his paycheck this episode. 2 Link to comment
nksarmi April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 You know oddly enough - now that Oliver is finally blaming Merlyn for something - I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I kind of feel like Oliver shares a lot of the blame here. Sure Merlyn started this crazy ride, but shit - Oliver fought Ras to begin with knowing that Malcolm was bluffing and that he would never turn Thea over to the League. So Oliver losing to Ras, but living got Ras on this stupid prophesy plot which makes no sense. If Oliver had just trusted his instincts and turned Merlyn over to begin with - problem solved. So then fast forward to when Thea turns Merlyn over and Oliver says he knows Malcolm won't give her up because he loves her. He still goes after Merlyn for some convoluted reason that makes no sense and this gives Ras a chance to make this stupid offer. And everything that follows from there was about recruiting Oliver. I would have loved to here Oliver call Merlyn out earlier in the season and help bring him to justice, but now I just feel like Oliver has no room to talk. 1 Link to comment
quarks April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Velocity23, I'm mostly using total viewers because those are easy numbers to find on Wikipedia, but the analysis holds up for the demo as well. I'm just not sure the analysis can be used to argue that Arrow is having Oliver/Felicity sleep together in the next episode in the hopes of increasing ratings for May sweeps, largely because positive Oliver/Felicity moments haven't always led to ratings increases. For instance, their partner moment in "Blast Radius," was followed by a slip in ratings/total viewers for the Laurel-centric "Blind Spot." I'm already very unwilling to predict any trends in the ratings for this week; I'm really unwilling to predict what will be happening the following week, which will presumably feature Evil Oliver, few to no Oliver/Felicity scenes, and Laurel trying out the Canary Cry - but which will also feature Evil Oliver and Nyssa being cool. My best prediction is "Who knows?" 3 Link to comment
FurryFury April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Is Nyssa mortally wounded? Because she can kick Laurel, Felicity, and Diggle's ass ten times over. She really should be able to kick Oliver's ass too. I mean, I realize that generally, a man is stronger than a woman... But a whole lifetime of training should matter too. Fighting's not about just raw power. Of course, Oliver's the hero which means he'll beat any other character no matter what *yawn* Nyssa under Laurel's protection still sounds incredibly stupid, I give you that. 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Aww the problem for me is that sometimes the viewers go down but the demo rises. And the networks lach on the demo hard. There was a drop in Arrow ratings after the midseason finale, when Barrys arc was over. During the hiatus the EPs promoted the 5 episodes after the midseason finale as Laurel/LanceFamily. The ratings from 2x10-2x11 stayed in the 0.9 demo, but were down from the Barry episodes. Link to comment
BkWurm1 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 The only thing we do not know at this point is the number of velvet pillows and scented candles in that Nanda Parbat Honeymoon suite. The rest - even the sequence of events - has been spoiled. Who breaks with whom, who says I love you, which moment is poignant and what not. Just the number of velvet pillows and scented candles ..... But knowing the number of pillows and candles is very important, must see TV! Link to comment
Chaser April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Velocity23, I'm mostly using total viewers because those are easy numbers to find on Wikipedia, but the analysis holds up for the demo as well. I'm just not sure the analysis can be used to argue that Arrow is having Oliver/Felicity sleep together in the next episode in the hopes of increasing ratings for May sweeps, largely because positive Oliver/Felicity moments haven't always led to ratings increases. For instance, their partner moment in "Blast Radius," was followed by a slip in ratings/total viewers for the Laurel-centric "Blind Spot." I'm already very unwilling to predict any trends in the ratings for this week; I'm really unwilling to predict what will be happening the following week, which will presumably feature Evil Oliver, few to no Oliver/Felicity scenes, and Laurel trying out the Canary Cry - but which will also feature Evil Oliver and Nyssa being cool. My best prediction is "Who knows?" Add in the crossover, ratings are impossible this year. Now that the show is in its third season and viewers preferences are more established, there may be a lot of spot viewing. If the promo features something the viewer wants to watch, they will tune in. That doesn't mean they are going to stick around for the next episode. Link to comment
BkWurm1 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Suicidal Tendencies, total viewers 2.86. Despite ample reason to break up with Ray, most notably that he electrocuted one of her friends, Felicity stays with Ray, somewhat countered when Felicity kisses Oliver on the cheek. Total viewers drop back down to 2.48. ...but to repeat, that's not always consistent with Oliver/Felicity: Public Enemy, total viewers 2.48. Ray says "I love you," Felicity says "Jello." Total viewers barely change, to 2.47. The quick hiatus and warmer weather kind of throws all the patterns off. Link to comment
catrox14 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 remember MG talking about skirting as close to that line as they could without actually jumping the shark. I dunno. There could be an actual shark in the Lazarus Pit.... 8 Link to comment
statsgirl April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 JB just killed me with that clip, all the worry and fear for Thea. Also he called it "Nanda Parbath", Lazarus Pit on his mind? Glad Oliver finally bought a clue that all this is MM's fault. Yes, quarks did at one point do a breakdown showing that in general, ratings/total viewers went down after positive things for Oliver/Laurel, and up after negative things for Oliver/Laurel, while ratings/total viewers went up after positive things for Oliver/Felicity, and down after negative things for Oliver/Felicity. You know, it really creeps me out when you refer to yourself in the third person (TM Diggle). I think the Olicity sex is in this episode just because it's in the storytelling. They needed something powerful just before Oliver joins the League of Psychotic Murderers and they held off on Felicity's I Love You as long as they could. It sounds like the last four episodes are firmly story-based and even if Oliver and Felicity have sex again before the end of the season, this episode is the one they needed it in in terms of storytelling punch. Oliver going evil is more of a shock if he's just finally got together with Felicity and it's been beautiful, and if she is the one to pull him out of it after all, it works better if it's after they've been together. 1 Link to comment
catrox14 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 JB was wonderful in that scene. He just never got enough credit for some of the wonderful work he did on Torchwood when he played a darker Jack Harkness. 1 Link to comment
TanyaKay April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 But knowing the number of pillows and candles is very important, must see TV! I agree, when everyone else would have their eye balls glued to their TV screens trying to notice the placement of Oliver's hand on Felicity's shapely behind, I would be counting the number of pillows and candles - for science you know. 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 That quote in the Spoilers Only thread is Malcolm, yes? Link to comment
Velocity23 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) Or maybe Maseo? The previews talked about Karl Yune delivering great work in the episode. Edited April 21, 2015 by Velocity23 1 Link to comment
statsgirl April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 It could be Malcolm finally making amends. Maybe this is his redemption arc, in which he either dies or becomes good for next season.. I don't know if Maseo would admit to betraying Ra's. Link to comment
Chaser April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 The image is blocked on my computer. Can someone tell me what the tease is? Link to comment
Velocity23 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I was thinking it could be this scene. The tease: "For my betrayal, I offer you my life." - #Dialoguetease #Arrow #TheFallen 5 Link to comment
Chaser April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I was thinking it could be this scene. The tease: "For my betrayal, I offer you my life." - #Dialoguetease #Arrow #TheFallen Thanks! I should be working...but....*shrug* If it is Maseo, is he referring to saving Oliver? Seriously, shouldn't that void the whole heir thing. He cheated. 3 Link to comment
apinknightmare April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I was thinking it could be this scene. The tease: "For my betrayal, I offer you my life." - #Dialoguetease #Arrow #TheFallen Oooh, good point. Link to comment
HighHopes April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I think it might be Oliver to Ra's and the "betrayal" is using the pit to save Thea. And he's offering up his life by becoming the Heir. Link to comment
apinknightmare April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I think it might be Oliver to Ra's and the "betrayal" is using the pit to save Thea. And he's offering up his life by becoming the Heir. But isn't the whole point of him going to Nanda Parbat and becoming the heir TO save Thea? That's why Ra's stabbed her in the first place. Link to comment
statsgirl April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Would Maseo's betrayal be telling Oliver about the pit? But that's Ra's big card to play. Why would Maseo tell Ra's about saving Oliver? That's a secret better kept hidden. Link to comment
catrox14 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Well, he would be saving her from death..... Link to comment
HighHopes April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 (edited) But isn't the whole point of him going to Nanda Parbat and becoming the heir TO save Thea? That's why Ra's stabbed her in the first place. Oh true. Though that's exactly what Ra's wants, and I have no idea if there are rules/whatever to the pit, but could it still be a "betrayal" for using the pit if it's not Ra's/a league member/whatever? So Oliver offers himself up, and Ra's accepts because that is what he wants? Edited April 21, 2015 by HighHopes Link to comment
SleepDeprived April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 Though that's exactly what Ra's wants, and I have no idea if there are rules/whatever to the pit, but could it still be a "betrayal" for using the pit if it's not Ra's/a league member/whatever? So Oliver offers himself up, and Ra's accepts because that is what he wants? But the Pit use for Thea looks to be very much sanctioned by Ra's. They have this big ol'e ritual with mystic woman and everything. So, I don't really see how that could be viewed as a "betrayal." 2 Link to comment
HighHopes April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 But the Pit use for Thea looks to be very much sanctioned by Ra's. They have this big ol'e ritual with mystic woman and everything. So, I don't really see how that could be viewed as a "betrayal." I may not be thinking too clearly as I'm currently exhausted but maybe the line comes before the ritual? And Oliver says something about how he knows it goes against the league (or whatever), but in exchange for them doing that ("betraying" the code) he will offer up his life? Link to comment
jay741982 April 21, 2015 Share April 21, 2015 I agree, when everyone else would have their eye balls glued to their TV screens trying to notice the placement of Oliver's hand on Felicity's shapely behind, I would be counting the number of pillows and candles - for science you know. While Felicity does have a shapely behind(DAT ASS), it looks like his hand isn't on her ass it's almost there though Link to comment
Sunshine April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 (edited) Oh just for funsies I'll go with the dialogue tease being Felicity. Didn't EBR say she might have to sacrifice her life? I am still curious as to how she stands up to Ra's. Or perhaps she says it to Oliver. He tells her not to do something. She does it anyway. He makes her "pay" for her betrayal. Edited April 22, 2015 by Sunshine Link to comment
jay741982 April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Oh just for funsies I'll go with the dialogue tease being Felicity. Didn't EBR say she might have to sacrifice her life? I am still curious as to how she stands up to Ra's.Or perhaps she says it to Oliver. He tells her not to do something. She does it anyway. He makes her "pay" for her betrayal. Sounds Dirty lol 4 Link to comment
looptab April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 Maybe Maseo will try and stop Ra's from keep pursuing Oliver? Why else would he confess saving him? The question though is why Ra's would keep wanting Oliver as heir after he knows. Still, I love Maseo. Can we keep him? Link to comment
Chaser April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 The preview review of the episode calling EBR and Felicity the standout really surprised me given the material for SA/WH even JB. Combined with DC Access and the spoiler tweets. I'm so curious about she does and for the life of me I have no idea what she could do. What could she do to Ra's? Some people have speculated that she has been working on a plan but I really don't see it. If she has been working on one prior to this episode, I would have thought she would have told Diggle and Oliver beforehand. Oliver wasn't planning on joining the LOA and Felicity couldn't have foreseen what Ra's would do. Whatever she does, has to be thought up while she is in Nanda Parbat. Link to comment
BkWurm1 April 22, 2015 Share April 22, 2015 I think Felicity will DO pretty much only Oliver (which is plenty girl) but when Ra's confronts her, she shows her backbone. Any plans, I suspect will happen after the pillow counting is done. 4 Link to comment
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