Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

I wouldn't mind a 3-4 episode intermission following the suicide squad tbqh. 

[dtissagirl]

If they weren't using the comics to tell part of the story...that would certainly help them keep the story on screen. That bugs me more than anything

That I agree with. I'd rather be watching the 2.5 comics rather than reading them. But the 24 digital issues would probably correspond to 2 or 3 episodes at most. And I'm not certain Stephen wants to be back on a gruesome schedule of being the main focus of every single episode. That's pretty daunting on shows without big stunt pieces... when you add in the stunts, it's basically inhumane.

I mean, he did get sick after they wrapped S1, and that was before he had a kid. I just don't see it being feasible now. Both for the writers, and for Stephen.

Edited March 22, 2015 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm fine with some episodes not 100% Oliver centric as long as his arc is not completely abandoned for more than 1 or 2 episodes.

[lexicon]

For the first paragraph, please let that be true!

 

Second paragraph, I hope they drop the "Ray is like Barry in Oliver's body crap"... Then again, Iris/Eddie and Ray/Felicity DO go on that double date so.............. IDK I'm just as confused as you

 

I thought that line was gross when I first heard it and now in view of the current state of her relationship with Barry, Ray and Oliver, I've reviewed my opinion to it being absolutely cringeworthy and borderline disgusting for Felicity to say. She may lack a verbal filter and is socially awkward at times but Felicity Smoak is not crass and reducing Barry to a brain, Oliver to his body and Ray (the guy she's currently sleeping with) to being the best of both worlds, would be beyond ridiculous. That line does no favours to either Felicity or to any of the men she's comparing. Shame on the person who came up with that line.

 

As for the Flash, good Lord show, how many times can you do the awkward double date in one season before you realise it's played out? For an otherwise inventive series, this shows a remarkable lack of creativity.

[Genki]

I just finished a binge watch of episodes 3.11 - 3.16 and it was a hard slog. What made it worthwhile was Diggle and Lyla family time awesomeness, Felicity and Oliver finally getting back onto a good relationship, Lance telling off Laurel, Diggle & Oliver Bromance and Thea.

 

In theory 3.17 should be awesome if it builds from 3.16's enjoyableness, I'm just worried the 3.16 was the outlier and 3.17 (and beyond) will be like all the crappy-ness that came before. Points of concern

 

- Oliver/Palmer conflict with Felicity in the middle (Frankly Palmer being at the wedding is bad enough IMO, but officiating it, beyond ridiculous), so throwing in a another instant vigilante arc, which negates Oliver years of experience and suffering, no thank you.

- The writers failing at doing romantic tropes well - Bouquet toss I'm looking at you 

- Lance coming down on Team Arrow but not Laurel, Oliver has already paid the price for Sara's death by essentially dying IMO, but Lance is punishing him for Laurel's lies

 

I have doubts about the episodes beyond 3.17 but I think it might be a good barometer of whether the show will be good or bad in 3.18 & 3.19. 

[Password]

Moved to hopes and fears.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Limbo

[looptab]

Regarding MG's latest nugget about Nyssa and Laurel, after reading some Lauriver shipper's thoughts on the matter - It can never ever happen because it would be disrespectful because Canon!, first and foremost- I almost wish they went there. (I don't actually wish it, the opposite, but damn, some of this ish makes me rage).

 

Sorry, I needed to vent a little. Deep breaths.

Edited March 22, 2015 by looptab

[Starfish35]

Hahaha it's hilarious that you said that because I was just reading that myself. One person in particular is having a meltdown about how disrespectful it is that the Black Canary would be bisexual. She must never have read Gail Simone's thoughts on the subject.

I'm not saying I want Lauryssa - I really really don't, except as friends. But this hysterical pearl-clutching that "oh the Black Canary could never be bisexual" is a little strange.

[looptab]

Right? Also, the almost instantaneous conclusion they made that Olicity shippers are jumping on this because it would put another nail in the Lauriver coffin? I'm sure there are some who'd think that, but a hypothetical L/N wouldn't influence that in any way. Sara was with Nyssa and jumped in bed with Oliver anyway.
The only valid point they made was that it'd be impossible to have a gay Batman or Superman, that no one would ever dream of changing their sexuality. Too bad they followed that thought with a reiteration of "It's forbidden to disrespect Canon!". SMH

Edited March 22, 2015 by looptab

[lemotomato]

Hahaha it's hilarious that you said that because I was just reading that myself. One person in particular is having a meltdown about how disrespectful it is that the Black Canary would be bisexual. She must never have read Gail Simone's thoughts on the subject.

I'm not saying I want Lauryssa - I really really don't, except as friends. But this hysterical pearl-clutching that "oh the Black Canary could never be bisexual" is a little strange.

And then she pulls the "I don't have anything against gay/bi characters, I have friends who are gay" card, then immediately follows up with how she doesn't like that Barbara Gordon's sexuality on "Gotham" was "changed" for shock value. Ugh.

I never read the "Birds of Prey" series, but isn't it heavily implied that Dinah and Barbara were a thing in that run?

[wonderwall]

Right? Also, the almost instantaneous conclusion that Olicity shippers are jumping on this because it would put another nail in the Lauriver coffin? I'm sure there are some who'd think that, but a hypothetical L/N wouldn't influence that in any way. Sara was with Nyssa and jumped in bed with Oliver anyway.

The only valid point they made was that it'd be impossible to have a gay Batman or Superman, that no one would ever dream of changing their sexuality. Too bad they followed that thought with a reiteration of "It's forbidden to disrespect Canon!". SMH

Actually a lot of olicity shippers want felicity to be given the bisexual title. I was sort of against it because the show probably would never explore it with her thus it would only be a token title. So it's probably those people who are jumping on the Laurel is bisexual boat.

[looptab]

Actually a lot of olicity shippers want felicity to be given the bisexual title. I was sort of against it because the show probably would never explore it with her thus it would only be a token title. So it's probably those people who are jumping on the Laurel is bisexual boat.

Really? I didn't know about that. However I wasn't saying that all Olicity shippers are pro Lauryssa, just reporting that person's opinion. :)

[Starfish35]

Maybe we should take this to the Laurel thread or Relationships thread, since it's not really about spoilers.

[Morrigan2575]

I never read the "Birds of Prey" series, but isn't it heavily implied that Dinah and Barbara were a thing in that run?

Responding in the relationship thread.

[apinknightmare]

Right? Also, the almost instantaneous conclusion that Olicity shippers are jumping on this because it would put another nail in the Lauriver coffin? 

 

Do these people understand how bisexuality works? At all? 

 

Anyway, I hope MG was just offering that Tumblr user a little something to cling to and that they're not going the Laurel is bi route. Not that I'm against more representation on this show or anything like that - I'm totally pro that, but it seems like it would be a step too far in the "am I my sister?" mess that is Laurel's issue this year. 

[Starfish35]

Responding in relationships thread.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with Laurel being bi, I just find it a bit weird if her Sara hooked up with her boyfriend, and then Laurel hooked up with her ex girlfriend after she died. Its just...kinds creepy. Like they're just passing each others partners around. This isn't Friends, you can mix it up a bit! 

[Velocity23]

So Ivan Maldonado posted Love is in the air tweet. And he was asked if he was signing or giving a clue. He responded its a clue. And with 3x21 being not good Olicity wise i could see Nyssa & Laurel getting closer.

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Velocity23

[apinknightmare]

So Ivan Maldonado posted Love is in the air tweet. And he was asked if he was signing or giving a clue. He responded its a clue. And with 3x21 being not good Olicity wise i could see Nyssa & Laurel getting closer.

 

Could be about Felicity and Ray too. ::shudders::

 

If it is Laurel and Nyssa I'll admit that while I would hate that for the reasons previously stated, I'd be morbidly curious about what the reaction would be. And if this were The Flash I'd have to wonder if there was some weird kind of Firestorm-level fusion of Laurel and Sara going on, but that would kind of be impossible with Sara dead and all. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

Well we know Katrina was filming a lot for 3x21. I dont think i seen much of Brandon. So i am leaning more towards Nyssa & Laurel. Especially with those tumblr posts by Guggentroll.

[Chaser]

If they bring back Sara it could be in reference to that. It still could be Olicity. EBR tweeted about pillow impersonaters and one of the random things listed is 'someone in leather.' Maybe it's in reference to that or maybe it's diggle and Lyla. Too many possibilities.

[wonderwall]

Okay let's list the possibilities: 

 

Laurel/Nyssa - MG did tell a Lauryssa shipper that they'd enjoy episode 21. BUT it could easily mean they have some good platonic scenes

Thea/Roy - Unlikely because Roy might die

Digg/Lyla - Likely. But only if Audrey has been filming for 3x21

Oliver/Felicity - MG said that Olicity shippers probably won't be happy with this episode so it's unlikely. BUT EBR also posted that thing about pillow impersonators but that could mean anything

Felicity/Ray - They'll probably be broken up by this episode (but only if the EPs are smart about the whole R/F thing)

Quentin/Donna - wishful thinking :p

 

My bets are either Lauryssa or Olicity tbqh. 

[catrox14]

Honest to gods, if they make a couple of Nyssa and Laurel, there is no redeeming Laurel for me EVER. It would complete the theory that  Laurel's goal was to SWF her sister and she will have completed that by becoming Nyssa's lover.

 

I suspect Laurel might even join the LoA at Nyssa's behest. That would eliminate the arguments of "Arrow's SaraBC was in the LoA so how you can you replace her with LaurelBC without that traumatic experience? " Boom. Done.  Shortcutted like every other fucking stupid thing they've done to force Laurel into the Black Canary.

[FurryFury]

Even the idea of Laurel/Nyssa makes me want to barf. Can Sara have ANYTHING for herself, at all?

[statsgirl]

I'm beginning to get the feeling that unlike when they wrote the first versions of the Arrow (Yao Fei) and Deathstroke (Billy Wintergreen) who were presented as very different from who the characters ended up being, with the Canary, they were so excited to be able to finally write the Black Canary character that like children in a candy store, they lost perspective and gave her everything that was the comics' Black Canary except for the name.  Sara had the skills, the mission, the heart, the traumatic experience and even had Sin.  Now they're stuck because in order to make Laurel the comics' version of BC, they have to give her all that.

 

Actually, they don't have to, they could write a different path for Laurel but they don't seem to want to do that.  It looks like they're even giving her Nyssa.

 

Deathstroke/Deadshot/Deathbold.... Ray/Roy... I know these are all from the comics but it makes it very confusing for viewers of the show.

[apinknightmare]

So, are we getting into some love triangle business this week with the Arrow vs Atom "showdown?" Like, a triangle of anger? A love trianger?

 

Oliver angry with Felicity for not telling him Fony Stark had a flying suit of wonders (this would be legit anger IMO, since it seems kind of important (to me) that Oliver know there's another vigilante in town vigilante-ing in the skies - minimizes the chance of Oliver and Ray and others getting injured)

 

Felicity angry at Ray for not telling her his flying suit of wonders was actually operational (Turd of the Year IMO)

 

Ray angry at the fake!Arrow for doing dirty deeds 'round town

Ray angry at real!Arrow for being Oliver Queen and also generally superior to him in every way that doesn't involve doing math or having a bank account 

 

Ray angry at Felicity for working with the Arrow without telling him (I think he's gonna find out all about that this ep, and I also think he's going to figure out that Oliver was the "more than a friend" she was talking about.)

 

Felicity angry at herself for having questionable taste in non-rebound rebounds

 

Oliver angry at himself for being a love dunce

 

Ray angry at himself for...nothing, because he's perfect

Edited March 22, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Your entire post made my day.

[Guest]

Who is Ivan Maldonado? I'm confused as to how/why he's giving clues and about what episode?

[apinknightmare]

^He's a camera man for Arrow. Seems like it's for 3x21.

[Guest]

Ah, ok. I can't even remember what 321 is about tbh. Eh, love being in the air could be about anyone, although if it is Ray/Felicity I might punch something. 

[Carrie Ann]

I don't remember seeing this on here, though it might have been and I just missed it, but MG confirmed that Atom/Arrow will actually fight this week. So...I'm not really sure how that will fit into the timeline of the conflicts @apinknightmare so eloquently laid out. :)

 

Because we see Ray tell Felicity that OQ is the Arrow, then we see her saying, "What are you going to do?" but we don't know if that's the same moment. At any rate, unless things are happening very quickly, I don't understand why Felicity wouldn't tell at least one of them about the other at that point. As soon as Ray indicates he's coming for the Arrow, I'd think that's game over. But if they actually fight, then she can't have told them, right? Or...I guess she could have told Oliver, but he can't convince Ray that he's a good dude, because Ray is always right, as established.

[statsgirl]

Since Ray thinks that The Arrow is the one going around killing people, he might still fight him even though he knows it's Oliver.  But that doesn't make sense if some of the trouble goes down during Diggle's wedding (screen shot of Felicity receiving the notification on her phone) since Ray is going to know that Oliver is there at the wedding with him.

 

Do we know that Ray didn't tell Felicity his suit was working?    Unless he told her in The Offer it still wasn't, it's one of those things that I assume happened off screen.

 

 

Ray angry at Felicity for working with the Arrow without telling him

Unless Ray is okay with Felicity telling Oliver about his vigilante stuff, it would be hypocritical.

 

Maybe this is when we see what Ray is really like as a person.

[apinknightmare]

Ah, ok. I can't even remember what 321 is about tbh. Eh, love being in the air could be about anyone, although if it is Ray/Felicity I might punch something. 

 

Maybe it's literal, as in Oliver and Felicity have an aerial stunt sequence? Haha

[Guest]

I don't remember seeing this on here, though it might have been and I just missed it, but MG confirmed that Atom/Arrow will actually fight this week. So...I'm not really sure how that will fit into the timeline of the conflicts @apinknightmare so eloquently laid out. :)

 

Because we see Ray tell Felicity that OQ is the Arrow, then we see her saying, "What are you going to do?" but we don't know if that's the same moment. At any rate, unless things are happening very quickly, I don't understand why Felicity wouldn't tell at least one of them about the other at that point. As soon as Ray indicates he's coming for the Arrow, I'd think that's game over. But if they actually fight, then she can't have told them, right? Or...I guess she could have told Oliver, but he can't convince Ray that he's a good dude, because Ray is always right, as established.

 

Maybe Felicity tells Oliver that Ray is after him but doesn't actually tell Ray that she works/knows the Arrow? Could be where the Raylicity rough patch comes in because we might see where her true loyalty lies. Who knows?

 

 

Maybe it's literal, as in Oliver and Felicity have an aerial stunt sequence? Haha

 

Haha, here's to hoping!

[jay741982]

Even the idea of Laurel/Nyssa makes me want to barf. Can Sara have ANYTHING for herself, at all?

Generally being liked more and being a way better fighter ?

Ah, ok. I can't even remember what 321 is about tbh. Eh, love being in the air could be about anyone, although if it is Ray/Felicity I might punch something.

Oh if only it was Olicity sex in the jet but me and other Oliciters aren't gonna be too pleased with The Olicity according to MG in this episode

[FurryFury]

Well, yeah, but it sure doesn't seem like this is what the writers intended.

[Starfish35]

Which episode was it that SA was saying had his favorite scene in it? "In a jet". Was that 320 or 321?

[dtissagirl]

320. He said it in the red carpet at PaleyFest that it's both his favorite scene of the season, and his favorite F/O scene. Then he wrote "Remember. 320" in the back of the 309 script pages he autographed for a fan.

[statsgirl]

3x20, I think.  They hadn't started shooting 3x21 at the Paleys.

[DrSpaceman10]

I just don't see how it can go from 3x20 seemingly being a really good episode for Oliver/Felicity to 3x21 "probably not"  being an enjoyable episode for Olicity shippers. I kind of wonder if Felicity/Ray are still dating in 3x21 (I really hope not).

[dtissagirl]

I was thinking about that. It can be as little as Oliver and Felicity not having scenes together in 321 because Oliver stays in Nanda Parbat, while Felicity returns to Starling City. I'm assuming Felicity is in back SC because KC posted a pic with EBR on Friday night while wearing the Buckles, and the camera man posted pictures from the roof of a building. They were shooting SC scenes.

[JenMD]

3.20 could be good for Olicity if the jet scene is a declaration of feelings from both parties, leading to some romance.  If it's at the end of the ep, it could lead into 3.21 and the "love is in the air" (they would literally be in the air, these folks are never subtle).  But then the have to separate as Oliver is staying in Nanda Parbat and Felicity is returning to Startling City, hence the bad for Olicity.  Unless I've got my spoilers mixed up, then I don't know. ;-)

[Guest]

Oh if only it was Olicity sex in the jet but me and other Oliciters aren't gonna be too pleased with The Olicity according to MG in this episode

 

Personally, I don't see Olicity sex happening this season, especially because I have a feeling Ray/Felicity will still be a thing. I hope not, but it's always a possibility on this show and I've learned to lean on the pessimistic side of things to prepare myself.

 

And I stopped listening to MG when he started rating level 5/6 scenes as 9s and uses words like 'epic' and 'game changing' like they're conjunctions. He doesn't seem to know what the majority of Olicity fans would enjoy tbh. 

 

And if it is 'bad' for Olicity, it could just be that Oliver stays in NP while Felicity leaves, and that keeps them apart. I don't see that as necessarily bad, especially if the hope for the two of them is still there. If they kill it completely, well that's another story. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Guest

[calliope1975]

Maybe it's literal, as in Oliver and Felicity have an aerial stunt sequence? Haha

 

Have we had the obligatory Oliver/Felicity jumping together from up high this year? If not, we're running out of time, and the Show needs to get on it. 

 

I'm leaning towards no Olicity sex this year, but if it happens on hiatus and we see none of it, I will be quite pissed. SA seems to have given up on this season as he's already touting S4's reel at ComicCon. They're going to have to give me something to both come back for the rest of this season and even want to return for S4. Oliver as Ra's isn't really cutting it since it's just dumb. If Ra's is playing a long game with Nyssa, that might pique my interest, but the story as is, does not. 

Edited March 22, 2015 by calliope1975

[Genki]

With the fact you have a guy in suit, that can fly...it feels to me that "love is in the air" is a reference to Ray. I hope not.

[wonderwall]

3x17: "Suicidal Tendencies" Asia promo

 

GET OUT OF HERE RAY

I couldn't hear him... what was he saying? 

[apinknightmare]

I couldn't hear him... what was he saying? 

 

That he would honor the promise he made to the city and bring the Arrow to justice. 

 

Did someone drug the water supply? Does no one stop to think that it might be a copy cat since the Arrow hasn't killed anyone in forever and a day (in TV time)?

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

........What promise did he make the city? He hasn't actually done anything. 

 

Also is he high? 

 

Also, this makes me hate Ray so much more... smh

[closer2fine]

Oh, go fuck yourself, Ray.

 

This is ridiculous. The Arrow hasn't killed anyone in at LEAST A YEAR. 

[apinknightmare]

........What promise did he make the city? He hasn't actually done anything. 

 

Also is he high? 

 

Also, this makes me hate Ray so much more... smh

 

Maybe it's something he promises in the episode? Other than that...I can't remember. 

 

I'm not worried about him being high so much as stupid. He wanted to be like the Arrow how many episodes ago - would he not realize that if there's a guy dressed in a green hood running around doing bad stuff that it might be a copycat?

PLOT STUPIDITY, RIGHT AHEAD!

Edited March 23, 2015 by apinknightmare