Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I'd like them to be working a con too but MG and SA have been too earnest about Ra's offering Oliver a real choice to make me think that.

 

I think it'd have to be a situation where Oliver waffles about it then feels super dejected about life and accepts, then has some sense talked into him too late in the game and decides he wants to fight for a life for himself and declines. Then when Ra's rains down hell on him, he relents and goes to Nanda Parbat, but with a plan (that we will probably be ignorant of since these people love their "gotchas"). 

 

I don't think it'll happen. But I want it.

[lemotomato]

From the latest spoilers, it looks like Oliver is going to take Ra's offer and join the LoA in episode 21. So now I'm wondering what's going to happen in the last 2-3 episodes? I assume he's going to resolve his identity crisis by the end of episode 23 and go back to Starling City, but I'm stumped about how they're going to fill the time until then. What's going to be the big crisis this year, if we are to believe the EPs that SC isn't going to be destroyed again in the season finale?

[Sunshine]

Maybe Ra's is going to train Oliver so that "the student can defeat the master."  Isn't that what they said repeatedly this season? Training in 3.21, defeat of Ra's in 3.22, set up for S4 in 3.23?  Makes me wonder if there is a cliff hanger since a recurring S4 villain is showing up in 3.23. 

 

So...who finds out about Ray's suit working first in 3.17 -- Felicity or Oliver?

[blixie]

So Roy is a total deadman he's reunited with Thea while she's wearing a RED LEATHER COAT. Torch passed to Speedy.

[BkWurm1]

I'm feeling like instead of dying Roy is going to experience some other kind of transformation. I half think he'll get left as Oliver's replacement in Starling and I half wonder if he'd go to prison.    Would Thea put on the mask if Roy is still there?  I think they could make a good case for her doing so but this show likes to have bigger reasons to push forward their masked heroes.  Stepping in to fill Roy's shoes would fit the show's standard MO. 

[calliope1975]

I do think that the person dying is going to be LP'd, so I hope that's the only death this year. I can accept other character(s) leaving, but I hope that's just it - they leave, not die. Whether that be prison or getting the hell out of Starling City, I'm not picky. 

[blixie]

Eh, I'm still going with dead, this show is still a trope fest and reuniting them with a kiss right before he bites it three episodes fits better with their style, and w/e at least we'd be getting a dude dying for a girls hero journey. And I actually don't even mind this trope (the reuniting before killing part, not the death of loved one makes a hero thing).

 

I'm really liking Roy, but there really are just too many damn people in the cast, and he has always been on my list of most expendable, along with Laurel and Detective Lance. 

[wonderwall]

I'm really liking Roy, but there really are just too many damn people in the cast, and he has always been on my list of most expendable, along with Laurel and Detective Lance. 

 

But would killing Roy actually help with the issue of the bloated cast? Dude barely has more than a minute of screen time every episode. I wish they'd send Laurel off with Nyssa somewhere other than Starling. 

[blixie]

 

But would killing Roy actually help with the issue of the bloated cast?

 

Yes? I mean bloated means too many people, if he dies there is one less person, he's taking up space however small that could and should have gone to THEA alone, as much as I liked the episode tonight they fit three seasons worth of Thea storyline into a SINGLE episode, she's deserved better but they never had time because they were serving the cast of thousands. If I had any confidence they would write episodes like they did tonight consistently than a large more ensemble cast wouldn't be an issue, but I'm comfortable seeing this as wholly intentional fluke. 

 

 

I wish they'd send Laurel off with Nyssa somewhere other than Starling.

 

That should  happen too, one does not preclude the other. Ray and Malcolm too, than can keep Lance, but only for Mama Smoak purposes, I don't really care about him either way #sorrynotsorry.

Edited March 19, 2015 by blixie

[Angel12d]

OK, so Ra's is going to make Oliver's life hell for turning him down so what? So Oliver has nowhere else to turn but to the LOA? 

[wonderwall]

Totally get what you're getting at. I just don't think that killing off or writing off just Roy would help that much unless a few other people leave as well. I'm with you though. Ray and Laurel could relieve the show of its extra dead weight. They're not needed to further Oliver's story, which sort of translates to they're not important to the show. 

[apinknightmare]

OK, so Ra's is going to make Oliver's life hell for turning him down so what? So Oliver has nowhere else to turn but to the LOA? 

 

I was so certain he was going to take the offer right off the bat - I'm still so surprised that he turned it down and gained a little bit of ground with his identity issues. So I think maybe he takes Ra's up on his offer to stop the onslaught and by that time he will have formed some kind of alliance with Nyssa. I'M FULLY INVESTED IN THEM TRICKING HIM NOW.

[Chaser]

At least we know why Ray goes after Arrow in the next episode: Ra's identity theft. Though for a genius you sure are stupid, why is your first outing trying to stop the Arrow? I was worried Felicity would side with Ray during the Oliver v Ray confrontation, but I think now she is going to get Ray on Oliver's side and Oliver will have a new ally. Its going to be more of a tiff then a fight. Just get a ruler boys.

 

I can see the police and citizens turning on Arrow, but they really established Felicity is with Oliver when push comes to shove. I think what EBR said about sacrificing herself could be true. 

[Angel12d]

I was so certain he was going to take the offer right off the bat - I'm still so surprised that he turned it down and gained a little bit of ground with his identity issues. So I think maybe he takes Ra's up on his offer to stop the onslaught and by that time he will have formed some kind of alliance with Nyssa. I'M FULLY INVESTED IN THEM TRICKING HIM NOW.

 

I'm surprised too, I admit, which is weird because Arrow hasn't surprised me at all this season. But I'm trying to make sense of all the spoilers we've gotten so far and I can't figure out where they're going with this.

 

We know everyone's gonna turn against the Arrow and TA will be affected and someone dies. Then they all get on some private jet and go to NP. If Oliver was gonna accept Ra's' offer when he has nowhere else to turn, why take the whole team with him? There has to be a trick involved somehow, especially with Nyssa because they've set up her being on the outs with her father pretty early on this season. 

[statsgirl]

This really is the season not of identity but of identity theft. First Laurel taking Sara's; now both Ray and Ra's taking Oliver's.

 

Next -- Felicity's nemesis takes hers on The Flash?

[apinknightmare]

At least we know why Ray goes after Arrow in the next episode: Ra's identity theft. Though for a genius you sure are stupid, why is your first outing trying to stop the Arrow?

I'm going to wait and see how this pans out but is everyone in Starling an idiot? Will anyone question why, after at least a year and a half of doing legit, noticeable good, the Arrow has gone bad? Will they not realize there are copy cats/imposters?

I'm guessing they won't, but how could they not?

Edited March 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[calliope1975]

I just enjoy that Ra's apparently had a custom Arrow suit made for himself. Likes a little cosplay, I guess. And then made a bunch more for the other Arrow impostors who will be running around Starling. The leather merchant in Nanda Parbat must live like a king.

[apinknightmare]

I just enjoy that Ra's apparently had a custom Arrow suit made for himself. Likes a little cosplay, I guess. And then made a bunch more for the other Arrow impostors who will be running around Starling. The leather merchant in Nanda Parbat must live like a king.

He's a distant relative of Starling's window guy.

[Angel12d]

I'm laughing because Ray going after the Arrow next week because he thinks he's bad just shows the lack of real communication between Ray and Felicity. She probably hasn't told him what she does in her spare time and he likely hasn't even told her about the suit working. Like the whole storyline could be solved by Felicity saying, "Yo Ray, I trust the Arrow and I know he's not a killer, he wouldn't do this." Problem solved. If anything this is just gonna highlight the shallowness of their relationship. I guess this is the rough patch?

 

Also, surely there will be sightings of more than one Arrow running around SC. They really make SCPD dumb on this show omg.

[Password]

If anything this is just gonna highlight the shallowness of their relationship. I guess this is the rough patch?

If anything this episode highlighted the shallowness of their relationship. The two of them know absolutely nothing about each other, other than surface level cutesy what do you want to eat crap. Then we have Felicity and Oliver talking about some real ish in the next room. Bye Ray.

Which episode is meant to show Ray doing things differently from Oliver? I'm sure they'll try to build on these shallow waters. Not to mention mama Smoak will love him (already does). Just let it burn show.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Limbo

[apinknightmare]

It's the next ep.

[Password]

Oh...I thought the episode was going to shine glory on Ray but they're skidding on some ice. Then again she could both be against him being anti Oliver but pro his new ways.

[Chaser]

I watched the extended promo for 3x17. Ray and Laurel scene. Anyone think there is going to be CHEMISTRY? 

 

So excited for the Sucide Squad. I'm actually getting Chollie vibes from Dyla in that promo. Anyone remember Masquerade? Crazy concept but so fun. 

[BkWurm1]

I'm going to wait and see how this pans out but is everyone in Starling an idiot? Will anyone question why, after at least a year and a half of doing legit, noticeable good, the Arrow has gone bad? Will they not realize there are copy cats/imposters?

I'm guessing they won't, but how could they not?

I can accept that bad guys meeting the Arrow for the first time wouldn't know the difference but Felicity orders very specific arrows.  Would Ra's have tracked down that same kind to use?  If not, the police should know they have a copy cat the second some new random arrow shows up.  The MO doesn't match.  It's not the Arrow.  They've played this game before.  Now if for some reason Ra's does have perfect duplicates of Oliver's arrows, I want to know how they get them? 

 

I'm not talking how did they find out the kind of Arrow, obviously Nyssa could have strolled in to the Lair anytime she wanted to get a sample but Felicity isn't buying them at the local sports store.  I assume there is some heavily buried internet orders going on and that's before Oliver's extra special customization.  Nanda Parbat doesn't even have electricity. 

 

Maybe they have a special computer room hidden in the mountain?  Either that or the LoA spends a lot of time hanging out at Starbucks and stealing their wifi. 

[looptab]

Who's saying "Love is a bullet in the brain" in the trailer? Is it Cupid? Or Shado? 

[Ariah]

I'm more excited than I should be about the Deadshot/Cupid scene from the Canadian promo. I knew something like that would happen!

[dcinmb]

Who's saying "Love is a bullet in the brain" in the trailer? Is it Cupid? Or Shado? 

 

Sounds like it might be Amanda Waller?

[apinknightmare]

I can accept that bad guys meeting the Arrow for the first time wouldn't know the difference but Felicity orders very specific arrows.  Would Ra's have tracked down that same kind to use?  If not, the police should know they have a copy cat the second some new random arrow shows up.  The MO doesn't match.  It's not the Arrow.  They've played this game before.  Now if for some reason Ra's does have perfect duplicates of Oliver's arrows, I want to know how they get them? 

 

I wasn't even talking about criminals or law enforcement or physical evidence necessarily, although the arrow thing is a good point.

 

It just seems to me that Ra's coming to town and killing people is an effort to get law enforcement and the general population to turn against Arrow. Wouldn't common sense and, oh, two years of generally not murdering people indicate that the guy(s) running around and doing just that are copy cats? So it seems like that approach should fail on two accounts. Is one of the "Arrows" going to go after Felicity and that's what sets Ray on his rampage against the dude he's been trying to emulate? Or is that big brain going to figure out that the bad guys are dressing up as the good guy? I guess I'm going to have to wait and see how it plays out.

Edited March 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[tv echo]

How about this for speculation?  Ra's is the one with the secret plan.  He's trying to find his successor.  Nyssa has shown weakness by having a close relationship with Sara, so he needs to test her.  So, knowing of the prophecy, he deliberately doesn't stab Oliver (the only challenger he's had in 67 years) through the heart and gives him a chance to survive.  Oliver does survive and Ra's relies on the prophecy to support his choice.  At the same time, he deliberately drives Nyssa away from Nanda Parbat by disinheriting her.  He wants to see if Nyssa will toughen up, come back, and fight Oliver for the position.  If she does, he's willing to change his choice back to Nyssa.

 

Oliver is forced to consider Ra's offer once more.  At the end of this season, Nyssa works something out with Oliver where they decide to jointly share the Ra's position.  They return to Nanda Parbat.  Laurel goes with them because Quentin has been killed and there's nothing left for her (she thinks) in Starling City, and because she's become Nyssa's training protege and friend.  Thea goes with them because she doesn't want to lose her only family.  I still think Malcolm and maybe even Roy are going to be killed this season.  Diggle doesn't go because he has a family and he disagrees with Oliver's decision.  Felicity has to decide whether she is ready to give up her whole normal life to go to Nanda Parbat in order to be with Oliver (her 3x16 words, "As long as you're in my life, I am [happy]", come back to haunt her).

Edited March 19, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I'm curious, i keep seeing comments that the show was surprising last night and I don't get it.  I didn't watch but from recaps and live blogging, seems like everything that happened was stuff that was already predicted in this thread...  Was it just surprising that they went with the logical plot rather than the contrived stuff that tossed characters under the bus?  was it surprising that it was good and not depressing?

[apinknightmare]

Was it just surprising that they went with the logical plot rather than the contrived stuff that tossed characters under the bus?  was it surprising that it was good and not depressing?

 

Both. It surprised me because I thought for sure Oliver was going to brood and angst and be secretive, but he was open and told both Felicity and Diggle what he was thinking and feeling and listened to them and weighed their opinions when making his decision. I thought for sure he was going to be swayed into accepting Ra's offer. I didn't think that Ra's was going to put a plan into motion so soon, and I was really surprised that Oliver seems to be getting his head out of his ass now rather than with three episodes to go. That could change next ep of course, but it was just kind of a delightful return to most of the things that made me love this show in the first place and I absolutely was not expecting that. 

[Morrigan2575]

OK that makes sense.  I was just confused because there was spec that Oliver would turn Ra's down and that Ra's would turn the City against him thus forcing Oliver to take the offer in later episodes.  Which seems to be exactly what was put in motion last night.  

[blixie]

 

Was it just surprising that they went with the logical plot rather than the contrived stuff that tossed characters under the bus?

 

More or less yes, but more specifically it was surprising the show was GOOD, and doing all the things it hasn't been doing for 15 episodes, aka character beats, letting them breath, having characters do things that makes sense. As well I think a lot of people were convinced Oliver would accept The Offer and he in fact refused it. And no one predicted Ra's himself would come to Starling City to masquerade as Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

OK that makes sense.  I was just confused because there was spec that Oliver would turn Ra's down and that Ra's would turn the City against him thus forcing Oliver to take the offer in later episodes.  Which seems to be exactly what was put in motion last night.  

 

Yeah, I wasn't surprised by most of what happened, I was just surprised at the manner in which those things happened and most of all that the show I love is not dead. 

 

I also wasn't expecting Ra's to come to town masquerading as the Arrow, because I figured the fake Arrow development would happen in 3x18, so it seems like we'll have some copy cats wreaking havoc on the city for a while. It also makes more sense as to why Palmer would go after the Arrow (although only marginally more sense since the Arrow has been a good guy 'til now. I'm guessing one of the Fake!Arrows goes after Felicity. 

 

And I'm also guessing that Oliver must reveal himself to Ray in order to show him that he's not a threat - that the other Arrows aren't him?

[Sunshine]

So...not to be a Debbie Downer...but

 

In the promo between "Love is a Bullet in the Brain"  there is a shot of Oliver looking at someone.  The next shot is of Felicity smiling at someone.  Do we think that is them gazing at each other or is it an editing trick like the promo for 3.01 where Felicity was smiling at Oliver but the edit made it appear she was smiling at Palmer?  I know in one of the promo stills Palmer is standing between Lyla & Digg looking at something/someone else.  Is he watching Felicity & Oliver or just looking at Felicity and she's smiling back? 

[tv echo]

It could be an editing trick... but it says something that the CW is using a real or pretend Olicity moment to promote the next episode.

[apinknightmare]

I think Oliver is definitely looking at Felicity. You can see her hair in the shot. I'm not entirely sure she's looking at him.

[Sunshine]

I think Oliver is definitely looking at Felicity. You can see her hair in the shot. I'm not entirely sure she's looking at him.

This makes sense.  Oliver is looking at Felicity.  He notices she is smiling at Ray or perhaps Felicity is smiling back at Oliver and Ray notices. Triangles, triangles, triangles! 

[Morena]

I saw this in a twitter.

 

 

[Angel12d]

The eyes look completely different to me. I don't think that's the same woman.

[Belinea]

Well, Oliver will probably be looking for Felicity and she will look in their general direction. So it might be safe to say that at least one person is looking at the other.

 

I am curios how the whole Shado thing will turn out. Is she actually herself? Or someone else...Did they not bury her? If she is indeed Shado why did Oliver not tell Slade? And I really don't like the thought of the little boy being possibly dead. I just have difficulties with killing off kids. 

 

As for 3x20. Maybe they all go to NP to deal with Ra's al Ghul and in that episode it becomes clear that Oliver has to take that place. The others have to say goodbye without wanting too. And while Oliver has to stay behind, they will try to come up with a plan to keep the city safe and get Oliver back. I just can't see them having Oliver be the leader of the LoA permanently. (Going into S4) That would mean, he'd have no interaction with any of the other characters. Even though that would definitely change everyone, I would find a dissolution of all the personal relationships an unpleasant thought. 

[statsgirl]

I'm looking forward to Cupid falling for Deadshot. That could be comic gold.

 

 

I'm curious, i keep seeing comments that the show was surprising last night and I don't get it.  I didn't watch but from recaps and live blogging, seems like everything that happened was stuff that was already predicted in this thread...  Was it just surprising that they went with the logical plot rather than the contrived stuff that tossed characters under the bus?  was it surprising that it was good and not depressing?

What was surprising is that there are good scenes again.  So far this season, if I'm being generous, there are 8 episodes that I don't consider time I'll never have back again.

 

Oliver is forced to consider Ra's offer once more.  At the end of this season, Nyssa works something out with Oliver where they decide to jointly share the Ra's position.  They return to Nanda Parbat.  Laurel goes with them because Quentin has been killed and there's nothing left for her (she thinks) in Starling City, and because she's become Nyssa's training protege and friend.  Thea goes with them because she doesn't want to lose her only family.  I still think Malcolm and maybe even Roy are going to be killed this season.  Diggle doesn't go because he has a family and he disagrees with Oliver's decision.  Felicity has to decide whether she is ready to give up her whole normal life to go to Nanda Parbat in order to be with Oliver (her 3x16 words, "As long as you're in my life, I am [happy]", come back to haunt her).

I don't know  about the testing of Nyssa part because this Ra's has been decidedly lacking in intelligence, but I think you may be right about taking Laurel back to Nanda Parbat over the summer. I think KC said something in one of her interviews that she hopes Laurel will do a lot of training in the summer and come back as a full on fighter.

 

This makes sense.  Oliver is looking at Felicity.  He notices she is smiling at Ray or perhaps Felicity is smiling back at Oliver and Ray notices. Triangles, triangles, triangles! 

Predictable, predictable, predictable!

[SonofaBiscuit]

See, I was thinking that the two comparison photos look similar enough...the top photo just has more eye makeup on. Hmm.

 

Also, I am actually expecting an EPIC Olicity scene in episode 20.  If many Olicity fans think that the scenes from last night were wonderful, but SA considers the scene in episode 20 to be even better, I'm really curious about what's going to go down.

Edited March 19, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[Chaser]

Assuming that is a Lazarus Pit Shado, does anyone think it could be a set-up for Sara? Supposedly, Shado was dead and buried for months like Sara.

 

Maybe Shado 2.0 has no memory of her past life and moved on. Oliver decided not to put her in danger and so never told ( and the audience is then supposed to except all the plot-holes because we get Sara and Shado alive ) Slade. They could use it to set up Sara.

 

But if they do LP Sara, why does it seem like 3.20 is so lite on Laurel? Wouldn't she be a big deal in the episode? Do we know if KL filmed for 3.20 since her and Laurel are chummy.

Edited March 19, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[apinknightmare]

See, I was thinking that they looked similar enough...the top photo just has more eye makeup on.  Hmm.

 

Yeah, I posted this last night in the ep thread last night. I think that's Shado or Shado's twin/clone/whatever too. 

[Starfish35]

See, someone at TVLIne asked this question, and now I can't stop wondering. If Shado is really alive, and Oliver knows it, wouldn't he have told Slade that to get him to spare Moira? I could se him wanting to protect Shado from Slade, but not at the cost of his mother's life. So something about this is not adding up.

[apinknightmare]

Yes, he would have. So if that's actually Shado then he would've had to see her die again in Hong Kong or anytime before he got back to Starling. Otherwise he's a bigger idiot than I thought.

[Angel12d]

If that is Shado, I HATE the implications. The woman was shot in the head and then buried on the island. Who, aside from Slade and Oliver, knew she was there? How did she even end up in the LP? Not to mention it removes all the emotional angst of s2 which could have been solved by Oliver telling Slade and even Sara that Shado was still alive. IT MAKES NO SENSE. I don't want this. 

[Morena]

In Ral's and Nyssa scene got the feeling that the offer is a way to make Nyssa show that deserves to be his successor. and I think Nyssa will show it in some way. using LL?

[Sunshine]

In one of SA's Paleyfest interviews he was asked once again about Felicity being the only one Oliver loves this season.  He replied yes but then went on to say that she wasn't the only woman he had to save or something along those lines.  Which made me wonder if Laurel gets hurt in 3.19 and has to be LP'd in 3.20 or 3.21. (I just didn't think he would refer to Thea that way.)  Only 2 other options came to mind - Tatsu or whoever the female LOA member is they showed last night.  It's probably not a coincidence that Celina Jade was in the flashbacks and they emphasized a female LOA member.  (MG did say we would see another female LOA member revealed on tumblr a while back).  Assuming she's some relation to Shado ,who also helps him with Akio, I assume Oliver feels compelled to save her too.