Spoiler Discussion Thread

[chaos is welcome]

Its bad that I can do nothing but laugh at nable's line in the producers preview. The accent is so, so, bad.  I'm so far behind, still only half way through 3.11.  Maybe I'll catch up over hiatus.  Then again, I think I'd rather wash all my laundry. And scrub my toilets. Which is sad, because those are my least favorite things EVAH. 

 

MG talking about how big the twist is at the end, oh goodie. **Can't wait**

Edited February 24, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[Guest]

I'm not reading all the spoilers because it sounds like I'll hate the show even more but I really don't like the sound of Felicity being/ feeling 'in control' where Ray is concerned. So basically she offers Ray advice and he does what she says but Oliver doesn't. Because that's what I'm getting from that and really, must we do this?

The thing is Ray is not a hero and he doesn't have Ra's chasing after him or his sister, so he has the luxury of listening and accepting advice. Nothing is at stake here. The biggest problem for him right now is his suit not working. Oh no. The horror.

I know Oliver is making dumb decisions right now but I'm kind of sick of them pushing Felicity into Ray's arms. I mean, it's starting to sound like she just wants someone to agree with and do everything she says and I know that's not true of the Felicity I love. I guess I'm saying I really don't like the implications of all this. I hope I'm just reading into things and it's not how it comes across.

Ugh. And saying an episode is anti-Olicity is not really helping. Good job I wasn't watching anyway. I'm so tired of this show. Someone please give me the strength to drop it altogether.

[apinknightmare]

Laurel Brown described Felicity as being in control for this ep- she never implied that it was about Ray specifically unless I missed something? Felicity will never be able to stop Oliver from doing what he think he has to for Thea, but maybe he does listen to reason about something, even if he still ultimately follows through with his plan.

[Password]

Felicity "being in control" is such a weird spoiler. Control of what? Her emotions? I really hope it's not that she can control Ray more than Oliver because that sounds so very wrong.

I thought...actually now I'm not quite sure what to think. Ray and Oliver's situations ARE vastly different, but Ray listening and TALKING would make Felicity very happy because she hasn't really had that for a while. I'm just really saddened by the fact that the trio who used to talk is now so at odds Felicity finds this dynamic in RAY. Agh nothing good can come from it.

[Guest]

Laurel Brown described Felicity as being in control for this ep- she never implied that it was about Ray specifically unless I missed something? Felicity will never be able to stop Oliver from doing what he think he has to for Thea, but maybe he does listen to reason about something, even if he still ultimately follows through with his plan.

I thought it was related to Ray. My bad. That's what happens when you skim read stuff. But most of her scenes are with Ray so you can't blame me really.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

She could've meant Felicity's in control of her emotions. Laurel did say (in response to a ? about whether or not Felicity's feelings for Oliver show) that Felicity tried to remain aloof in front of Oliver but that they slipped out elsewhere.

About the ep being anti-Olicity: this from a man who told us Felicity was acting out of character by telling Oliver to kill Ra's, that the "I love you" was a 9, that Felicity's scene in 3x14 was going to break the Internet, that Felicity telling Oliver she didn't want to be a woman he loves was going to send him off Twitter for weeks and various other things that failed to live up to his described potential. If this ep is anti-Olicity, I can only imagine that's because Felicity's getting closer romantically to Ray and maybe because Oliver goes off to Nanda Parbat or something equally stupid that they may disagree about.

[Guest]

Lol, believe me. I don't trust MG at all. I wish he would shut up and people would stop asking him dumb questions. They're feeding his already over-fed ego. But the way he phrases things gets my back up sometimes.

[jay741982]

That's what I can't stand about MG. He's an ass who openly admits to wanting to piss fans off who does that? His dialogue tease was that I'm putting you to bed crap. He revealed nothing more. He gets off on pissing off a big part of the fan base. It's very possible it's just that Gross Raylicity is closer to happening and he's exaggerating how bad the Episode is for Olicity. This idiot hasn't let Felicity's feelings for Oliver be said yet why start now. Given that he and at least two different reviewers have said different things about Olicity in this episode. We have to wait and see.

[Velocity23]

LOL LB regarding Guggentroll

 

 

Laurel Brown @DocBrown_TV  ·  6h 6 hours ago

@Fangrlmoment I think he's trying to rile up the fans, but what he's saying has some truth.

[jay741982]

Someone should ask her if it's an olicity exchange that has that horrible line UGH just realized that might be revealing too much

[apinknightmare]

Someone should ask her if it's an olicity exchange that has that horrible line UGH just realized that might be revealing too much

Someone did-she wouldn't say.

[Danny Franks]

I'm not reading all the spoilers because it sounds like I'll hate the show even more but I really don't like the sound of Felicity being/ feeling 'in control' where Ray is concerned. So basically she offers Ray advice and he does what she says but Oliver doesn't. Because that's what I'm getting from that and really, must we do this?

The thing is Ray is not a hero and he doesn't have Ra's chasing after him or his sister, so he has the luxury of listening and accepting advice. Nothing is at stake here. The biggest problem for him right now is his suit not working. Oh no. The horror.

 

This is why comparing and contrasting Oliver and Felicity's new pal is so ridiculously flawed, from a narrative perspective. Ray's biggest issues are the dead fiance that he seems to have forgotten, his stalker boner for Felicity and the super suit that he's using his billions of dollars to fund. Oh wow, it must be so tough for him when he has to make choices as to where his priorities lie.

 

Felicity making any sort of emotional choice on whether one refuses to listen while the other one eats out of the palm of her hand would be up there with the dumbest, most illogical things this show has done. If she chooses Ray as a love interest because he's easy to deal with? I'm honestly not sure what that's supposed to say about her, or him, as characters.

[jay741982]

This is why comparing and contrasting Oliver and Felicity's new pal is so ridiculously flawed, from a narrative perspective. Ray's biggest issues are the dead fiance that he seems to have forgotten, his stalker boner for Felicity and the super suit that he's using his billions of dollars to fund. Oh wow, it must be so tough for him when he has to make choices as to where his priorities lie.

Felicity making any sort of emotional choice on whether one refuses to listen while the other one eats out of the palm of her hand would be up there with the dumbest, most illogical things this show has done. If she chooses Ray as a love interest because he's easy to deal with? I'm honestly not sure what that's supposed to say about her, or him, as characters.

About Felicity needing to "Control" the man she loves well that's bullshit and I don't think that's it at all. She's never been able to control Oliver and she fell in love with himthough I remember him telling her in the midseason finale that anything she asks he'll do it which has been true. I hate MG he just loves to throw the fans into anger Edited February 24, 2015 by jay741982

[quarks]

Marc Guggenheim:

 

I’d say… don’t watch Wednesday’s episode.

 

 

Kerry Washington, red carpet interview at the Oscars: "Oh, I can't say anything about this week's episode of Scandal because i'd get fired, but I will say this was an episode that meant a lot to me personally and emotionally and I'm so proud of it and the show, and you won't want to miss it."

 

Total viewers, per Nielsen, Scandal, February 19, 2015: 9.62

 

Total viewers, per Nielsen, Arrow, February 18, 2015: 2.91

[jay741982]

I'm really hoping Felicity doesn't say that cruel sounding line especially since we have never heard her say before that she loves Oliver. I can't hate Felicity at all but MG can't surely think anyone is invisible on this show

[apinknightmare]

I'm really hoping Felicity doesn't say that cruel sounding line especially since we have never heard her say before that she loves Oliver. I can't hate Felicity at all but MG can't surely think anyone is invisible on this show

Since Laurel Brown said that if this episode is anti-Olicity, it's even more anti-Lauriver, it's probably Laurel who says that to Oliver.

[Password]

Maybe Felicity just wants uncomplicated. That's it. Boring Ray is a great option (once I get over all the issues I have with him).

[Guest]

Yeah, I can't imagine Felicity would say something like that to Oliver when she's never even told him she loves him in the first place. That would be a total disconnect. That's very likely coming from Laurel, especially as Oliver is making really dumb decisions right now. 

[Sunshine]

Sounds like this episode is anti-Olicity because they are trying to get Felicity & Ray off the ground. They aren't going to give us good Olicity scenes if they want you to buy the other relationship.

[jay741982]

Maybe Felicity just wants uncomplicated. That's it. Boring Ray is a great option (once I get over all the issues I have with him).

Yep then she will realize he's boring and Oliver is the one she really loves. She can't help that Oliver has those issues and has dicked her around

[Chaser]

I trust Laurel Brown on the Olicity in this episode more and she doesn't seem to think its as bad as MG is making it out to be. I'm certain there is truth in what MG is saying: Felicity and Ray are gearing up and Oliver and Felicity will probably be in conflict over Malcolm and the League. I'm wondering if given some of the fans IMO overreaction to some things that have happened, I could see him trying to really rile them up so it doesn't come across as bad as people think. That and he really does like to poke the audience. Its annoying and turns me off the show but I guess it works for some.

 

With LB saying that fans would hopefully be both happy and mad at their interactions, I think there will be some good there. And when asked about the episode being 'anti-olicity', she said 'If it is'. I don't think she really sees it as such, but she probably understands some will. If it really was so 'anti-Olicity', I don't think SA would have stuck so strongly to his 'one-woman for Oliver, Laurel is past, Felicity is his match' stance at the TCA/Access Hollywood.

 

Basically, I don't think this is going to be a great episode for Olicity but I think MG is talking it too big. 

 

I don't think he is going to start talking up Olicity again until close to the end of the season. Right now, its about cooling Olicity and focusing on Ray and Felicity to get Ray off the ground (literally and figuratively) and making sure Oliver really hates his life. To build towards…whatever...

 

And just because this bugs me: I don't think the 'in control' part refers to Ray as a romantic partner, but if it does so what? Felicity has had no real say in her and Oliver's relationship so if she decides to move on to a relationship that does give her some control. I don't fault her, I understand her. 

[Carrie Ann]

Even more depressing to me than MG's Olicity comments was this on Tumblr (edited slightly):

 

Q: I've been rewatching s1 + s2 lately & my question is: could you guys give us some amazing original team Arrow scenes again? Or will you? Rewatching made me miss them so much, I love Oliver x Felicity x Diggle.

 

MG: Thanks for the kind words!  The show is always evolving and so, therefore, is the team dynamic.  But I think we’ve got some Oliver/Dig/Felicity moments coming up that you’ll be quite pleased with.  Thanks for watching.

 

Just doubling down on the idea that it's apparently impossible to hold on to the things that work while simultaneously developing other things, but you know, at least he keeps getting this question, so maybe that will get through his thick skull? The way they're handling Oliver's non-journey, Olicity, and the way MG keeps dismissing the very idea of the original trio--it's sending me the exact same message as his idiotic "don't watch" response. He's telling me they couldn't care less what viewers like about the show, and that they are possibly incapable of looking objectively at how things are working.

 

The easy PR response to these questions is this: "While the team has to expand and change with the show, the core of Oliver/Diggle/Felicity will always be at the heart, and it always comes back to them. Don't worry, we have more scenes with them coming up." Which I promise you, they do not (remember how we were going to get some great D/F scenes after the hiatus, BUT ALSO great scenes with Laurel? Yep, no notable D/F scenes at all.). But even if you don't have anything with them coming up, because you screwed up and your priorities are in the wrong place--just say that shit so people believe that you still understand Thing 1 about what your fans love about your show. This is not some small niche group of fans--this is the VAST majority of your fanbase and critics. If anything could be said to be almost universally appreciated about this show, it was Original Team Arrow.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[jay741982]

Sounds like this episode is anti-Olicity because they are trying to get Felicity & Ray off the ground. They aren't going to give us good Olicity scenes if they want you to buy the other relationship.

It's really sad if they think Raylicity is worth it.

[ban1o]

 

-- Asked if we will learn more about Roy's past in future episodes, MG says: "No plans at the moment, but I know there’s an appetite for that."  [Has MG confused Roy with Ray?]

-- Asked if Roy will get a significant amount of screentime in future episodes, MG says: "Roy really makes a big move to center stage in our next few episodes."  [Has MG confused Roy with Ray?]

 

I'm just curious why you think he had Roy and Ray confused? I didn't get that impression. 

[tv echo]

I'm just curious why you think he had Roy and Ray confused? I didn't get that impression. 

Because the spoilers indicate that Ray Palmer is the one moving front and center in upcoming episodes with his Atom storyline, while Roy seems to have no storyline coming up.  And Ray/Atom is the one the EPs seem most excited about.

Edited February 24, 2015 by tv echo

[jay741982]

How can they expect To sell Raylicity when reaction to Ray so isn't good and Olicity is a very Popular pairing I really don't think reaction to Raylicity will be positive given that he's already gotten negative reaction to the stalking, never having scenes with anyone but Felicity,

[tv echo]

-- Asked for hints about Olicity in 3x15, MG says: "It’s probably our most anti-Olicity episode to date.  Sorry." ...

-- Asked what he would say to people fearing for Olicity's future, MG says: "I’d say… don’t watch Wednesday’s episode."

Well, at least he warned us.  An EP telling people not to watch his show is ridiculous.  It just comes across like a child throwing a tantrum.

 

jeinworld asked:

hello, marc, it's true that the end of lauriver?olicity endgame? a lot fans want lauriver in arrow. Olivier and laurel are awesoene and sexy

We don’t have an endgame.  Honest.

Regardless of what Laurel Brown said, I doubt very much that the EPs would've revealed whether they had a romantic endgame in mind and who that endgame involved.  The words "of the endgame variety" just sounds like a possible endgame (to string Olicity fans along).  They could just as easily have said that Lauriver is "of the endgame variety" - or the pairing of Oliver & his baby mama was "of the endgame variety".

 

Note the quote "Vengeance is justice" is yet another use of the word 'justice' this season.

 

It's interesting to read MG's responses on Tumblr because you can get a real sense of the man (assuming he really is the one writing his responses).  In his responses to positive complimentary posts, or even frustrated fan posts, you can tell that he's reveling in the fan buzz and almost gleeful (probably due to the good ratings).  In response to complaining, negative or repetitive posts, he comes across as petulant and impatient.

Edited February 24, 2015 by tv echo

[ban1o]

Because the spoilers indicate that Ray Palmer is the one moving front and center in upcoming episodes with his Atom storyline, while Roy seems to have no storyline coming up.  And Ray/Atom is the one the EPs seem most excited about.

mmmm well yeah they are excited and over-hyping  Ray's "Atomn" storyline but that doesn't mean Roy doesn't have a story-line coming up after the hiatus. I mean there are all those pics of him from 3x18. Anyway the questions were grouped with a Roy/Thea question so I'm pretty sure his answers all refer to Roy. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by ban1o

[tv echo]

You could be right.  I had forgotten about the pics of Roy in the Arrow costume.

[ban1o]

You could be right.  I had forgotten about the pics of Roy in the Arrow costume.

haha anyway thanks for posting all the tumblr questions on here.. Very helpful! 

 

LOL all his anti Olicity stuff really seems like he's just trying to rile up fans. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by ban1o

[Chaser]

I think the Atom is all teases until 3x19. We see the suit in 3x15 (probably at the end of the episode). 3x16 they are dealing with the cliffhanger in 3x15 so I'm thinking its heavy Thea/Oliver. 3x17 is Suicide Squad. 3x18 seems to be all Lance v Team Arrow/MS. 3x19 is Ray's big episode.

[catrox14]

What if the "control" thing has to do with Ray using the suit. Maybe for testing reasons, Felicity has the ability to control the suit if things go wonky during a test?

Or maybe she is in control of Palmer tech whilst ray is testing the suit? Maybe the in control thing has nothing to do with their personal relationship?

[KenyaJ]

Well, at least he warned us.  An EP telling people not to watch his show is ridiculous.  It just comes across like a child throwing a tantrum.

 

And normally I believe in ignoring tantrums, but in this case, I'm happy to give this man what he wants. 

[ban1o]

What if the "control" thing has to do with Ray using the suit. Maybe for testing reasons, Felicity has the ability to control the suit if things go wonky during a test?

This is a good theory actually .I think this is the case. 

[looptab]

I think, for once, MG wasn't giving so much a sassy response as he was trying to joke? The question was sort of "asking for advice", he likes to believe he's the fandom's friend. So I can see him saying, "eh, this will be difficult, don't watch". It surely backfired, though.

 

I could also be very wrong and he is really that much of an idiot, but devil's advocate and all that. :)

[apinknightmare]

haha anyway thanks for posting all the tumblr questions on here.. Very helpful! 

 

LOL all his anti Olicity stuff really seems like he's just trying to rile up fans. 

 

He is. It's stupid and immature and counterintuitive to his ultimate goal of success for the show, but he does it to get people talking and it always, always works. He knows that the shipping base he's aiming for who looks at Tumblr and Twitter is never going to not watch the show, no matter how bad he says it's going to get - they're too curious. He's like a kid on a playground - as long as he gets a rise out of you, he's going to keep trying, and Tumblr/Twitter is the perfect place to stir shit to get people going. 

[Chaser]

When do we think Ray is going to find out about Arrow?

 

I'm hoping before the wedding. The sooner the better. Any theories on how he finds out? I'm assuming he is going to 'track' something …. probably Felicity.

[Ariah]

Felicity may be referred to as being in control because:

- Oliver wants / needs her approval before going to rescue Malcolm,

- Ray wants / needs her approval before going off in the suit.

 

As both men look up to her before making some of their crucial decisions, she takes some of the agency from them - this dreaded agency that everyone has been talking about.

 

That fan saying Oliver and Laurel is awesome and sexy makes me barf what is awesome and sexy about a Toxic relationship where he cheated on her repeatedly with her sister? How is that sexy and not Olicity?

 

Frankly speaking - I believe the writers are aiming to approach the low levels of toxicity with Olicity. I don't think they are able to write a different relationship. Felicity scorned acts out like Laurel used to (albeit, I admit, to a lesser extent).

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm an Olicity shipper and a fan of both Oliver (with his dumb decisions) and Felicity - but I'm a fan of a consistant Felicity, not this construct that I'm seeing now on my screen. Good that I'm blaming the writers, not the character. I trust my Felicity is out there somewhere!

[catrox14]

I think the end game is to morph Arrow into the justice League.

I would not be surprised to see a battle next to the lazarus pit between MM and Oliver. Oliver is mortally wounded and then falls in the pit inadvertently and he emerges all messed up and becomes villainous or joins the LoA.

Rather than the city believing the Arrow wis dead Roy poses as Oliver and along with The BC and the atom they work to protect the city whilst maybe Diggle, Felicity, and Thea try to save Oliver.

And thus the show becomes the Justice League.

I can't see any other reason for sidelining Oliver, for rushing laurel into BC in the most absurd and unbelievable way; having Oliver ally with Malcolm; putting Oliver n conflict with the rest of Team Arrow.

Maybe I'm giving MG too much credit for having a plan.

Edited February 24, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

When do we think Ray is going to find out about Arrow?

 

I'm hoping before the wedding. The sooner the better. Any theories on how he finds out? I'm assuming he is going to 'track' something …. probably Felicity.

 

Maybe during whatever ep Felicity is supposed to be torn between some anger between Atom and Arrow. Although there's more drama to be mined from Felicity being torn between the two with neither one of them knowing that she works with the other, so maybe not for a while.

[Password]

Ooh Felicity in control of the company would be fun!!! As long as it gets her away from Ray...which I guess it doesn't but still. Master (mistress?) Of the Universe!

[Guest]

Worrying about the endgame baffles me when the journey there is shit and fraught with inconsistencies, OOC behavior and contrived plots/angst. They can keep their endgame if I'm not even going to like the characters by the time we get there. Smh.

[apinknightmare]

Worrying about the endgame baffles me when the journey there is shit and fraught with inconsistencies, OOC behavior and contrived plots/angst. They can keep their endgame if I'm not even going to like the characters by the time we get there. Smh.

 

I think it has something to do with just needing to know that you're sitting through all this crap for the "ultimate payoff." Some people don't care about the journey, only the destination. Or they hang tight to the destination so that they can justify sticking through the journey.

Edited February 24, 2015 by apinknightmare

[jay741982]

Ooh Felicity in control of the company would be fun!!! As long as it gets her away from Ray...which I guess it doesn't but still. Master (mistress?) Of the Universe!

Well she is a BAWSE and would deserve it. I'd love for Oliver to get QC Back and let her run it! Of course in this scenario they are very much a couple lol

[catrox14]

Worrying about the endgame baffles me when the journey there is shit and fraught with inconsistencies, OOC behavior and contrived plots/angst. They can keep their endgame if I'm not even going to like the characters by the time we get there. Smh.

I posited the end game because it would explain OOC behavior and stupid decisions by Oliver. Everyone has to be positioned differently get to another place in the show or the DC universe. If they create the Justice League inside of Arrow then the could spin that off I to its own show next season or just rebrand next season as Arrow: The Justice League Rises.

[quarks]

I don't have a problem with Guggenheim saying that they don't have an endgame in mind. A, I think it's true - at this point, nobody knows how long this show will be on the air, and nobody knows how long EBR will be willing to stay on the show. Season Ten might look radically different, if there is a season ten.  B, there's no point in annoying Laurel/Oliver shippers even more than the show already has, especially since this appears to be a negative Oliver/Laurel episode as well.

 

However, I'm also not even slightly concerned that the show might be going back to Laurel/Oliver at any point in the future. It just avoided doing so in two episodes that in theory were ideal for teasing that pairing - Laurel finally becoming the Black Canary and Oliver returning to Starling in the flashbacks, and there's just no indication in the show or in the spoilers that the show intends to go that route again for a long time.

[looptab]

At some point SA said that the title could change- when asked about the different arrowhead for every season. I thought he was joking, but at this point anything could happen, really.

[Guest]

I posited the end game because it would explain OOC behavior and stupid decisions by Oliver. Everyone has to be positioned differently get to another place in the show or the DC universe. If they create the Justice League inside of Arrow then the could spin that off I to its own show next season or just rebrand next season as Arrow: The Justice League Rises.

 

My comment wasn't directed at you, or anyone, personally. I've just seen a lot of questions about endgame and then there's Laurel Brown saying Olicity were talked about as 'endgame variety' and that's great and all but the journey freaking sucks right now and at this point I'm not even watching. I want to still enjoy the show and characters but I'm really not. 

 

I think it has something to do with just needing to know that you're sitting through all this crap for the "ultimate payoff." Some people don't care about the journey, only the destination. Or they hang tight to the destination so that they can justify sticking through the journey.

 

I know. My shred of hope for Olicity is what kept me watching this season for as long as I did but right now it doesn't even feel worth it. I can handle a lot of angst but when it feels really OOC and contrived, I just don't feel like I'm going to even recognize the characters or pairing I fell in love with. 

[catrox14]

I think it has something to do with just needing to know that you're sitting through all this crap for the "ultimate payoff." Some people don't care about the journey, only the destination. Or they hang tight to the destination so that they can justify sticking through the journey.

Personally, if the main character who also happens to be the only reason I watch a show is sidelined, dumbed down and is used to prop other characters, I am going to try to fanwank and endgame because if I don't, I'll give up. If all the changes felt organic it would be different, I would not be wondering why the hell everyone is acting like idiots.

Edited February 24, 2015 by catrox14

[AyChihuahua]

 

-- Asked if we will see any Olicity scenes in 3x18 and the season finale, MG says: "Honestly, depends on your definition of what constitutes an 'Olicity scene.'"

I think she ends the season with Ray, maybe about to move to another city with him.