Spoiler Discussion Thread

[kismet]

I think it supports my theory that SA doesn't like the character. He probably just wants to shake Laurel himself.

 

I think it depends on the 'shake.' If it just kind of a hands on the arms and jolt her, I wouldn't have a problem. If its a legit, rough shake then I don't like that. 

 

They may keep it in because they want audience to side with Laurel and its easier if they make him a bully.

I have wanted to give  a few metaphorical shakings to some of the characters on this show.... but I think the writers are walking a very dangerous line if they show Oliver being physically abusive to a female character. They have  come very close to insinuating misogynistic undertones w/ the treatment of some of their females, ex. audience response over the literal iceboxing of Sara & ?stalking by Ray. That to show him outwardly choosing to violently shake her would not go over well with a good portion of the audience (or at least I would HOPE a good portion). I think it would be disrespectful towards women, and severely dent Oliver's character. He never shook Roy, who needed a few shakes - why should he violently shake Laurel. Let's hope the editors have some good sense when they cut the footage. Im all for Oliver NOT using kid gloves on Laurel, but I think there are more appropriate & sensitive ways to get the message across. Sorry, to get on a soapbox, but I just think unnecessary violence against women has no place on TV. Unless your attempting to bring more social awareness to violence against women like Reign & other shows have, which is not the intent here - it only perpetrates the belief that it is ok - & its not.

Edited February 11, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

Honestly, if Laurel is standing there posturing and saying she has this then I would be totally comfortable with Oliver saying 'Fine. Beat Me.' Would it be a fair fight? Nope; Oliver would kick her ass. But if she wants to put on a mask and be treated like an equal, then she has to prove she can hold her own with the others.

[calliope1975]

Honestly, if Laurel is standing there posturing and saying she has this then I would be totally comfortable with Oliver saying 'Fine. Beat Me.' Would it be a fair fight? Nope; Oliver would kick her ass. But if she wants to put on a mask and be treated like an equal, then she has to prove she can hold her own with the others.

 

I'd be fine if that was the scenario, but it sounds like Oliver will be taking his frustration out on Laurel by grabbing her which is no bueno. I'd actually love to see both Roy and Laurel take on either Oliver or Digg and have their asses handed to them.

[ban1o]

Oh yeah I have no problem with Oliver challenging her to a fight and Laurel accepting. But grabbing her and shaking her because you are annoyed by what she is doing is just a no in my book. If it does stay in hopefully it isn't as bad as what I'm imagining. 

[wonderwall]

Regarding the new sneak peek, I have a feeling the writers are going for the "Make Laurel look sympathetic route by having Sara say mean things to her" angle. Hmm. Can't say it will work on me, but I'm sure a lot of people will feel bad for her. 

[statsgirl]

Don't forget "and have Felicity be really nice and propping to her". 

Maybe I'll skip this one, except I really want to see the new atmosphere in the Arrow cave.

[Danny Franks]

Felicity is going to get absolutely brutalised by some fans, if she hooks up with 50 Shades. And thanks to the writers, a large amount of the complaints will probably be very valid, if not very well phrased. But it won't matter, because hasn't Guggenheim said that he just ignores anyone who criticises the show?

 

'Hey, here's an angle for the season. Oliver gets all lovey dovey with Felicity then pushes her away when she gets hurt. Then he tells her he loves her as he goes off to fight for his life. As he's 'dying', his last thoughts are of her. He comes back and she bitches him out for being dumb about stuff, and never once says she feels the same as he does. Then she hooks up with her stalker of a boss a couple of episodes later.' Anyone who thinks that any character would not get dragged over hot coals for being that part of that storyline is crazy. It's quite insane.

[BkWurm1]

He never shook Roy, who needed a few shakes

 

He did shoot him in the leg with an Arrow...so, I guess shaking is the much gentler version?

[Starfish35]

Make no mistake, in spite of what AK says, the point of Ray/Felicity is for Ray, not to give Felicity a choice.

Yes, exactly the problem. I'm not an Olicity shipper, and I don't hate Ray. My problem with him is 1) Felicity is being used to tell his story, instead of him being used to develop her as a character, and 2) he's a secondary leading man on a show that already has one. Barry wasn't an issue because he was just here for two episodes. But Ray has been here all season long. Possibly if he was more integrated into the cast it might have worked better, but the only person he's had any meaningful interaction with is Felicity, and it looks like that's not likely to change until at least 317. So there's this whole separate storyline going on revolving around him. And even if he was more integrated, I don't really want the Arrow/Atom show. I want Arrow. Period. Occasional guests are one thing, but as other people have said repeatedly, I'm not here for this show turning into Justice League.

[apinknightmare]

I have a sick, sinking feeling that after tonight not only am I still not going to give a shit about Laurel, but I'm going to not like the people I still cared enough about to tune in for. 

 

I feel like I'm going to think Oliver's making the most sense as far as the mission is concerned - while he doesn't have any right to tell Laurel what to do with her life, I think he does have the right to tell her that she's not welcome in the cave. Is he not paying for their supplies and equipment with his mother's life insurance money? He doesn't have to agree with what she does, but I do think he has the right not to finance it. And I feel like the natural progression of this arc would be Laurel going off on her own for a bit to get more training, but I think what's going to happen is that Diggle, Felicity and Roy are going to side with her and Oliver's going to go off on his own for a bit. Which could possibly make a lick of sense if the four of them had managed to accomplish a damn crimefighting thing while Oliver was gone, but they didn't.

 

And I feel like Felicity and Diggle are going to make the most sense as far as how Oliver deals with Ra's. He's going to continue on that dumbass path and do dumbass things, and thankfully it seems like he tells Thea, who I was at one point really invested in but now she's just another dumbass with nonsensical reasoning being kept in the dark by her dumbass brother making more dumbass decisions. And I was hoping they really weren't trying to redeem Malcolm, and I still hold onto a thread of it, but...are they really going to try to do that? Please let this "redemption" be just overplaying the possibility of goodness with the hope that when he does something truly shitty people are OMG SURPRISED.

 

I hope I'm wrong about all this, but...I've got the dreads. 

[ban1o]

He did shoot him in the leg with an Arrow...so, I guess shaking is the much gentler version?

lol I always thought that was extremely, extremely douchey and unnecessary of Oliver. And they never even showed him apologize for it lol. Like sure Roy wasn't listening to him but there are other ways to stop him beside immobilizing him. 

[KenyaJ]

I have wanted to give  a few metaphorical shakings to some of the characters on this show.... but I think the writers are walking a very dangerous line if they show Oliver being physically abusive to a female character.

 

But it's okay because they're soooooulmates, right?

 

Regardless of whether this scene stays in the episode or not, it was filmed. If you're KC, why would you want Laurel to be with Oliver after that, on top of all the other foul shit Oliver has done to her? Honestly, I feel like KC only wants Lauriver to happen again so she can "win" and snatch the leading lady title back from EBR. From an acting standpoint, I can see the dramatic appeal of being in a toxic, shitty relationship. There's lots of drama and scenery-chewing to be mined from that. But she doesn't view their relationship that way, and the fact that she views them as soulmates indicates to me that she doesn't give a shit about whether Laurel is loved, valued, and respected by Oliver. She just wants them to be together because comics and reasons (and ego).

Edited February 11, 2015 by KenyaJ

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm not watching this anymore. I'll still hang around here and speculate on spoilers sometimes but I'm done. I'm actually dreading each episode and none of the spoilers have me excited. I don't care anymore. They're ruining everything I used to enjoy. Sad.

 

 

Felicity is going to get absolutely brutalised by some fans, if she hooks up with 50 Shades. And thanks to the writers, a large amount of the complaints will probably be very valid, if not very well phrased. But it won't matter, because hasn't Guggenheim said that he just ignores anyone who criticises the show?

 

'Hey, here's an angle for the season. Oliver gets all lovey dovey with Felicity then pushes her away when she gets hurt. Then he tells her he loves her as he goes off to fight for his life. As he's 'dying', his last thoughts are of her. He comes back and she bitches him out for being dumb about stuff, and never once says she feels the same as he does. Then she hooks up with her stalker of a boss a couple of episodes later.' Anyone who thinks that any character would not get dragged over hot coals for being that part of that storyline is crazy. It's quite insane.

 

It saddens me how much truth there is in this. :(

Edited February 11, 2015 by Guest

[ban1o]

MG seems to think that Felicity could molest puppies and not get hated so I wouldn't put anything past him lmao 

[Password]

Yeah I don't know anymore. I feel like basically the next 5 episodes won't interest me, even though they include Slade, Dyla and Suicide Squad. And now Oliver is being abusive (speculation).

I don't know anymore.

[jay741982]

It's a shame that some people will trash Felicity for hooking up with lameo Ray when OLIVER is a big reason why it would happen. No these people just wanna ignore how much of a scumbag Malcolm is and how dare a woman have a mind of her own and not bow down to a man she loves acting like a complete fucking jackass

[Chaser]

Everything in this episode screams 'Manufactured Sympathy!' for Laurel.

 

Oliver is going to be a big, controlling Jerk, Hallucination Sara is going to be a meanie and tell her she isn't good enough and Felicity is going to tend to her wounds and tell her the world is so unfair to people with big hearts like hers. 

[jay741982]

Everything in this episode screams 'Manufactured Sympathy!' for Laurel.

 

Oliver is going to be a big, controlling Jerk, Hallucination Sara is going to be a meanie and tell her she isn't good enough and Felicity is going to tend to her wounds and tell her the world is so unfair to people with big hearts like hers.

The Felicity part makes me gag. No way does Laurel have a heart like her sister did

[Carrie Ann]

Assuming Sara doesn't actually get LP'd this season, I honestly hope Caity Lotz tells them to shove it if they ever want her back. She deserves better than this. And Sara deserves better than to be twisted up just to prop Laurel. She already died for her. Isn't that enough?

[Danny Franks]

It's a shame that some people will trash Felicity for hooking up with lameo Ray when OLIVER is a big reason why it would happen. No these people just wanna ignore how much of a scumbag Malcolm is and how dare a woman have a mind of her own and not bow down to a man she loves acting like a complete fucking jackass

 

How can Oliver be blamed for Felicity hooking up with another guy? That would strip what little agency a female character on this show is allowed away from her. Blame the shitty writing, and the fact that the characters will do whatever necessary for plot, sure. Blame Oliver for Felicity's choices? That's a bit much. She screws 50 Shades, it's on her narratively, but on the writers creatively.

[apinknightmare]

Everything in this episode screams 'Manufactured Sympathy!' for Laurel.

 

Oliver is going to be a big, controlling Jerk, Hallucination Sara is going to be a meanie and tell her she isn't good enough and Felicity is going to tend to her wounds and tell her the world is so unfair to people with big hearts like hers. 

 

And see, the thing is that I absolutely believe that Felicity would encourage her. That's not the part that isn't in character to me, it's just that I really don't think that she'd rah-rah Laurel going out when she's not prepared and doesn't know what she's doing. The Felicity I know would say, "Hey, keep the suit, get some more training. Go back out there when you're ready if this is something you really want to do." Not...this.

[ban1o]

Mmmm isn't the douchey assassin DJ making a reappearance in this episode. He has a "surprise" for Thea, right? I wonder how that fits into Thea's story-line. 

[jay741982]

How can Oliver be blamed for Felicity hooking up with another guy? That would strip what little agency a female character on this show is allowed away from her. Blame the shitty writing, and the fact that the characters will do whatever necessary for plot, sure. Blame Oliver for Felicity's choices? That's a bit much. She screws 50 Shades, it's on her narratively, but on the writers creatively.

Oh I agree I'm saying these people shouldnt act like she's cheating on Oliver which some of them probably will Oliver and Felicity would probably be together if not for constant angst Shitty writing Etc. I don't want to see Raylicity AT ALL but hey what can you do LOL. I love Felicity and one of the reasons is cause she tells Oliver when he's a dumbass

[Chaser]

And see, the thing is that I absolutely believe that Felicity would encourage her. That's not the part that isn't in character to me, it's just that I really don't think that she'd rah-rah Laurel going out when she's not prepared and doesn't know what she's doing. The Felicity I know would say, "Hey, keep the suit, get some more training. Go back out there when you're ready if this is something you really want to do." Not...this.

When they said Felicity would give words of wisdom, that was my choice. Oliver is back, we don't need you on the front lines. Step back and get some more training.

[apinknightmare]

When they said Felicity would give words of wisdom, that was my choice. Oliver is back, we don't need you on the front lines. Step back and get some more training.

 

I hope that's what she does.

[Chiny11]

What is Ms Cassidy talking about?

Anyway, I guess she knows something we don't. I guess they are doing everything to please her. She may very well get the LI back next season.

It will be such a shame if tptb have been leading Olicity (and the entire mainstream media) on all this while only to dump Felicity with Palmer; end the season with no Olicity and then revert back to Lauriver in season 4. That's something MG Would do.

Does anyone here know of any TV show in which viewers were treated this way? Where a would they/wouldn't they amounted to nothing... nada? I can't recall any.

I'm just glad I'm not watching the show. At this rate I already have one foot out of the boat and I may end up not even binge watching.

[TyranAmiros]

Maybe the "game-changer" this episode is that Sara wins the fight and Sara's personality takes over Laurel's body. When they talk about Laurel "becoming her sister," surprise! She does literally. This would give them an excuse for why she gets better all of the sudden and resets the character to boot. There's an Insta-Canary idea I haven't heard yet.

[wonderwall]

I feel like by the end of this season 90% of this board won't be watching the show anymore and will just be hanging around for the sake of making fun of the show :p I know I'm on the fast track to that point with all the stupidity that's going about this season. I mean, the only reason why I'm still watching the show (except this episode, no way in hell am I watching this one) is because of Felicity, Diggle, Oliver, Olicity (which is 4th in line), and Stephen Amell because he puts so much work into the show. But with Felicity and Diggle being used this season to prop up the weakest links of the show, and with Oliver being sidelined on his own show and all this Raylicity stuff, man, I am losing interest FAST. 

[Danny Franks]

It will be such a shame if tptb have been leading Olicity (and the entire mainstream media) on all this while only to dump Felicity with Palmer; end the season with no Olicity and then revert back to Lauriver in season 4. That's something MG Would do.

Does anyone here know of any TV show in which viewers were treated this way? Where a would they/wouldn't they amounted to nothing... nada? I can't recall any.

 

Community. Dan Harmon and the guys who ran season 4 teased Jeff/Annie fairly consistently, and alternated between amping it up and ignoring it. There was never any sort of payoff, and fairly early in the 4th season, Alison Brie cut through all the bullshit the writers were teasing on twitter with an interview where she said, "nothing happens. As usual". It was pretty hilarious to see the culprits desperately trying to cover their arses once all the tweets and interviews clearly designed to whet the appetites of fans of the pairing (who are by no means the entire fanbase of the show) were shown to be deliberately vague and empty promises.

 

As for Laurel as the love interest, I do think Guggenheim wants to get back to that. I'm just not sure that even he can be so dunderheaded as to think it could work. Who knows, maybe he'll prove me wrong. As I mentioned earlier, if he explains away any criticism of the show as the whining of negative people, then I wonder if there's anything he wouldn't think he can get away with.

[Pyramid]

KC please stop talking about Laurel's heart. Thank you.

Also, Laurel and Ollie are not soul mates or two sides of a triangle. You sound delusional. I'm also beginning to think that you're using Laurel as a proxy to stalk Oliver. It's creepy and it's wrong.

I'm also on the stopped watching train. They ran down everything good about the show to raise up everything bad. Why would I continue giving them my time?

Anyway Becca continues to be gorgeous on Hindsight, I'll just watch that instead.

[Velocity23]

I must say the KC interview is much more hilarious with the audio!

[jay741982]

KC please stop talking about Laurel's heart. Thank you.

Also, Laurel and Ollie are not soul mates or two sides of a triangle. You sound delusional. I'm also beginning to think that you're using Laurel as a proxy to stalk Oliver. It's creepy and it's wrong.

I'm also on the stopped watching train. They ran down everything good about the show to raise up everything bad. Why would I continue giving them my time?

Anyway Becca continues to be gorgeous on Hindsight, I'll just watch that instead.

Becca on Hindsight is Gorgeous I'm watching that at 10

[Chiny11]

Community. Dan Harmon and the guys who ran season 4 teased Jeff/Annie fairly consistently, and alternated between amping it up and ignoring it. There was never any sort of payoff, and fairly early in the 4th season, Alison Brie cut through all the bullshit the writers were teasing on twitter with an interview where she said, "nothing happens. As usual". It was pretty hilarious to see the culprits desperately trying to cover their arses once all the tweets and interviews clearly designed to whet the appetites of fans of the pairing (who are by no means the entire fanbase of the show) were shown to be deliberately vague and empty promises.

As for Laurel as the love interest, I do think Guggenheim wants to get back to that. I'm just not sure that even he can be so dunderheaded as to think it could work. Who knows, maybe he'll prove me wrong. As I mentioned earlier, if he explains away any criticism of the show as the whining of negative people, then I wonder if there's anything he wouldn't think he can get away with.

Thanks for the response.

[Orion]

Community

As for Laurel as the love interest, I do think Guggenheim wants to get back to that. I'm just not sure that even he can be so dunderheaded as to think it could work. Who knows, maybe he'll prove me wrong. As I mentioned earlier, if he explains away any criticism of the show as the whining of negative people, then I wonder if there's anything he wouldn't think he can get away with.

Here is my one saving grace on the forever ship tease or the L/O reversal. It's not up to Guggenheim. The network, DC, Greg Berlanti (known for the Dawson's Creek endgame swerve), and kreisenberg would all have a say in it. So even though I think that Guggenheim is a bad writer and even worse plotter smarter people are involved in determining the big picture, what will be left of the ship after Guggenheim gets done with it is another question.

  

I feel like by the end of this season 90% of this board won't be watching the show anymore and will just be hanging around for the sake of making fun of the show :p I know I'm on the fast track to that point with all the stupidity that's going about this season. I mean, the only reason why I'm still watching the show (except this episode, no way in hell am I watching this one) is because of Felicity, Diggle, Oliver, Olicity (which is 4th in line), and Stephen Amell because he puts so much work into the show. But with Felicity and Diggle being used this season to prop up the weakest links of the show, and with Oliver being sidelined on his own show and all this Raylicity stuff, man, I am losing interest FAST.

We'll gave to rock, paper, scissors to figure out who is going to the victim of the week that gets to watch the episode and report back to the rest of us so we can appropriately mock it.

[wonderwall]

We'll gave to rock, paper, scissors to figure out who is going to the victim of the week that gets to watch the episode and report back to the rest of us so we can appropriately mock it.

OHH OH! THIS WEEK I think Felicity AND Oliver AND Sara will fall prey to the Laurel propping. Oliver and Sara will be the ones who look like dicks in order to make Laurel look sympathetic. And Felicity will be the one who 'comforts' Laurel. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by wonderwall

[Velocity23]

Are they shitting me with that Thea & Slade still?

[ban1o]

So Diggle is in the flashbacks. I guess this means most likely Felicity will be in them too. 

 

And yeah that Slade and Thea still is sorta eyerolling. I can't really imagine Thea competing with him in straight hand to hand combat lol 

Edited February 11, 2015 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

Regarding The Return pics: LOL, in what universe does Thea go toe-to-toe with Slade and not wind up dead?

[wonderwall]

Other than the Thea vs. Slade thing, episode 14 actually looks kind of good. 

 

GOD EFFING DAMMIT SHOW

[apinknightmare]

Other than the Thea vs. Slade thing, episode 14 actually looks kind of good. 

 

GOD EFFING DAMMIT SHOW

 

Haha, yeah. I'm intrigued. Is that Diggle in the flashbacks? I'm still waiting for the page to load on THAT STUPID SITE

 

ETA: YEAH, IT'S DIGGLE NEVER MIND

Edited February 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

Regarding The Return pics: LOL, in what universe does Thea go toe-to-toe with Slade and not wind up dead?

Perhaps they don't get a chance to finish the fight. 

 

Looking at those flashback pics with Laurel, Tommy, Quentin, and Thea...Quentin and Thea both take their turn suffering the bad wigs.  That said, there was one angle that made me really miss hair on Quentin. 

[apinknightmare]

That IS Diggle. Just...with Oliver right there? Yeah, I don't think these people will be able to resist having Oliver interact with Felicity, too.

[ban1o]

These pics sorta makes me miss season 1 actually 

[Chaser]

The site won't even load for me. :-(

 

What is Diggle during with Oliver?

[wonderwall]

These pics sorta makes me miss season 1 actually 

 

These pics make me miss when Arrow was good. :/ 

[Starfish35]

The site won't load for me either. :(

[ban1o]

The site won't even load for me. :-(

 

What is Diggle during with Oliver?

yeah the site is acting wonky now. Probably too many people accesign it at once. I'll try and find another link

[apinknightmare]

The site won't even load for me. :-(

 

What is Diggle during with Oliver?

 

Digg's standing with a few guys and Oliver's standing opposite them hiding his face - Maseo has a gun shoved to his back.

[ban1o]

Here's a link from Green Arrwo tv guys

 

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-the-return-official-preview-images/21706

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think there's going to be major interaction in 3.14 with Felicity and Diggle. I think it's just going to be something that causes Oliver to notice what decent people they are and remember it later. I wonder if they're going to try to say that Oliver was behind Moira hiring Diggle, because that would really be stretching things.