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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

Is there any information on 316 at all?  I know people keep speculating that Oliver is going to work for the LOA in 316 because the title is "The Offer" but is there anything that backs it up?  

 

Is it at all possible that The Offer is the theme of the episode, like Guilty was the theme of 306 and that it's not about a single offer?  Perhaps that many characters will either receive or make an offer?  I know the title is singular which implies 1 Offer but it would also make sense to have that 1 offer tie into other offers and have each character face a moment of decision based off something major.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Maybe Ray offers Felicity a marriage contract I mean proposal.

 

That would really make him 50 Shades. 

 

Ray's suit looks like a cross between Robocop and Tron with a little Iron Man thrown in. 

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Belinea

Belinea

 

Now that they've decided this is their mission, not just his.

 

I just don't know why the team would think they have been successful so far. Oliver has been gone 2 weeks, they haven't brought down 1 bad guy, every other bad guy is out on the street again and yet they think it is the appropriate time for a leader discussion. I don't get why that is necessary. It is not like he has been gone half a year. But it is good to know most of them are over the sadness and grief. Feels like the audience was more upset than the people he worked with. 

 

 

Someone needs to remind the writers that their show isn't called the Justice League or Arrow and Friends. It's just called Arrow and should be mainly about him.

 

It depends, sometimes I don't mind when the focus shifts a tiny bit so that a storyline can be told more thoroughly. For example I like the Diggle episodes, once a year is fine and I am actually interested what happened to his brother and I was actually interested in Felicity's story. I only have a problem with all the origin hero stories that take up so much time. They take away from Oliver and his journey. Maybe if they were told better it would work but so far I have yet to see why one would need Ray. Other than to show Oliver you can be both. It was not even explained why he would want a suit and why he just doesn't go to the gym with Laurel. That way you can also be a crime fighter in under 3 month. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I just don't know why the team would think they have been successful so far. Oliver has been gone 2 weeks, they haven't brought down 1 bad guy, every other bad guy is out on the street again and yet they think it is the appropriate time for a leader discussion. I don't get why that is necessary. It is not like he has been gone half a year. But it is good to know most of them are over the sadness and grief. Feels like the audience was more upset than the people he worked with. 

The leader discussion could come at the end of the episode-Digg's and Oliver's voices were kind of quiet, so I don't think it's a conversation they have in the midst of battle. And I also don't think success has anything to do with it-no, they weren't able to defeat Brick without Oliver. They do need him, but they've also now got their own reasons for being involved that don't just center around Oliver. Seems like that's what Digg's asking-if he can deal with that.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

It should be interesting if Thea ever finds out since she generally seemed to like Sara and was excited to see her during Sara's zombie party. Which was another wasted opportunity I would've liked to know how well Sara and Thea knew each other. 

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

Do you guys think they are trying to redeem MM?

It  kinda seems like it from the producer's preview. It could just be background to why he is the way he is.

 

LOL

Malcolm to Tommy: "I'll always be there for you"

 

*leaves him at the age of 8 for 2 years*

Edited by ban1o
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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

(edited)

Maybe Felicity's "mad as hell" moment builds from that leadership discussion, too. If Oliver insists that it's his crusade and tries to make his team back down from adopting the crusade as theirs. Something Oliver says could make Felicity mad enough, like saying that he died for Thea because he loved her, insinuating that he still won't let go of the notion of fighting to die for the cause instead of fighting to live for something.

 

I don't understand what powers Palmer will have. If he's really going to be shooting lasers or whatever from his fingers and the show doesn't have him shrinking/growing/manipulating his mass as his powers then why is he called the Atom? Are we going to be dealing with another *this character* must be *this superhero* because of the name they have yet they don't resemble the costumed hero counterpart in terms of what they can do? In the cartoons, I liked the Atom's powers because it really would be helpful, particularly in the medical field or for fighting nanites, but I can't see its usefulness on the show.

 

John Barrowman in flashback-Malcolm wig looks like John Travolta in Swordfish.

Edited by SleepDeprived
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

And just in case anyone was under the impression these guys were only going to rip off one other IP:

156883-screenshot-043-p.jpg

Here's Ray hanging out with Felicity and Malcolm. Looks like they got themselves some costumes after all.

 

OMG Yes! I mentioned on another board that it reminded me of a suit in a ga, e I played, it's totally Mass Effect.

 

Wait...we have to add the helmet

N7Helmet.png

Edited by Morrigan2575
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

What if in 315 Oliver decides he doesn't wanna do any of this anymore, and now he can be just Oliver Queen, because lookie, there's seventeen other people to save the city?

 

That's been my spec for the end of the season but maybe they'd try for it earlier, it's just that we still have Ra's breathing down all of their necks so now doesn't seem like the optimal time,  Even if Ray gets his suit in 3.15, we know he's still tweaking it a couple episodes later so it's not a tried and true method yet.  Unless the tweaking isn't indicative of his success and his suit is so good that he puts the mere mortals out of business (or so they think).

 

As for shrinking I don't think we would see that on Arrow but if he got a spin off then I'd expect it to happen at least eventually, but by delaying it they can have their cake and IM too. 

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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

(edited)

If they brought Sara back and killed Laurel, I might consider giving this show a chance again. But more likely they bring Sara back evil, so Laurel gets to vanquish her once and for all.

 

Or it's a flashback to show Merlyn trying to resurrect Tommy and/or his wife. Which isn't something I'd never give a shit about,

Edited by Danny Franks
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I think Tommy is much more likely than Sara.  Sara just makes Laurel look bad in comparison, whereas Tommy coming back could actually solve some Laurel problems.

 

 

Moira Queen only.

The problem with that is that Susanna Thompson is just as much a BAMF as Moira, and has seemingly told them to go screw themselves.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Well there goes realism. I guess realism died with The Flash on the xover but still. I'm miffed.

It could be for Ra's. I mean, we know it exists, he alluded to as much in 3x09. And their LP set could be that thing we saw him get out of when Nyssa went to him in The Magician.

Edited by apinknightmare
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

Was that a whole set or just a bathtub?

 

As much as I hate that Tommy and Sara died, if I could have someone back for the sake of the show I'd want Moira.  They really need a strong character who doesn't need a costume to be effective.

 

 

I think Tommy is much more likely than Sara.  Sara just makes Laurel look bad in comparison, whereas Tommy coming back could actually solve some Laurel problems.

Sadly yes, The last thing they'd want is CL back to show up KC, even if Sara becomes the White Canary or something like that.

 

I think Susanna Thompson turned down a bit scene in ep 314's flashbacks, not Moira back as a functioning characted, but that's just my guess.

Edited by statsgirl
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calliope1975

calliope1975

Someone needs to remind the writers that their show isn't called the Justice League or Arrow and Friends. It's just called Arrow and should be mainly about him. 

 

Buffy and Angel had a group of people with them but the show was still primarily about the character in the title. Even during the character centric episodes, Buffy and Angel were not tossed off a cliff for them. They were involved in that characters story. Smallville could get away with it because it was called Smallville which is the name of a city they lived in. So anyone in that city could be focused on. 

 

I'm most disappointed by how Oliver's been kicked out of his own show. This is all S6-7 shenanigans. It's only the third season! Both Buffy and Angel were able to write ensembles well while giving the main character their due. Arrow not so much based on what I've seen so far.

 

 

I just don't know why the team would think they have been successful so far. Oliver has been gone 2 weeks, they haven't brought down 1 bad guy, every other bad guy is out on the street again and yet they think it is the appropriate time for a leader discussion. I don't get why that is necessary. It is not like he has been gone half a year. But it is good to know most of them are over the sadness and grief. Feels like the audience was more upset than the people he worked with. 

 

That's what cracks up. They've been unsuccessful in the one big bad who's come to town and anyone has the nerve to tell Oliver anything? WTH? If they'd brought crime down close to zero, like, you know, Oliver and TA had done at the beginning of the season, then they might have room to talk. As of right now, not so much.

 

I am speechless ... THE WIG

 

 

Put Wig Cop on the case!

 

Let the dead stay dead. 

 

Have none of these people watched horror movies before? No one ever comes back from the dead normal! Human or animal - they always snap and try to eat your face. (Please disregard that I wrote a fanfic where that, in fact, happened and Felicity was fine.) 

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Ohh that preview!!

Kudos on them for keeping me surprised about the flashbacks this episode- or was i not paying attention and it was mentioned somewhere that this is the episode with Merlyn flashbacks?

Also you Tommy. And Malcolm saying he will always be there reinforces my notion that Malcolm may have been a ruthless SoB before his wife died, but he was a loving one.

Edited by foreverevolving
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Malcolm still thinks he's a loving one.  He seemed genuinely worried Thea was going to die in the comic preview.  He 'loved' Rebecca but he still refused to take her phone calls because he was too busy and she died.  What Malcolm thinks he is, and what he really is (he abandons Tommy shortly after that scene) are two different things.

 

Yes, MG said a while ago there were going to be Malcolm flashbacks in this ep.

 

They connect for me. She could very well be worried about Malcolm engineering circumstances again and Oliver really winding up dead that time. After knowing what it feels like to lose him, showing that kind of reckless behavior might make her say, okay, enough. I need to shut this down because I can't go through that again, especially if Oliver's intent on making dumbass decisions with his life and well-being.

Remember when Oliver was smart, as well as the star of his own show?  In Season 1, he was emotionlly stunted but he wasn't stupid, especially about alliances.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I'm gonna laugh for the rest of my life if it turns out Arrow's Lazarus Pit never brings anyone back from the dead ever. I mean, I don't even like zombie stories, but here's this thingamajig that is famous for ressurecting dead folks... and it's only used by one guy to keep him looking forty something ish with a beer gut. Hilarious.

Edited by dancingnancy
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

So, with that tease we have of Felicity saying there isn't any plane of existence in which Oliver would agree to "this," we can safely say that Oliver's going to agree to "this," yes? What are the chances that we get an "I don't even know who you are anymore!" from Felicity? Her being the moral center and all, she's got to call Oliver out on his shenanigans, I think. 

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Jessie2009

Jessie2009

(edited)

Yeah, that'll probably happen. Not that I blame her. Even if he wasn't the reason oliver was killed, he's proven before that he can't be trusted and that he usually has ulterior motives. Oliver let him live last time and it turned out he was brainwashing thea and it led to oliver being killed. I wonder of the show will frame it as felicity being over emotional and in the wrong because she's worried teaming up with Malcolm will end with oliver getting killed again.

Edited by Jessie2009
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Felicity can't be right. it's the middle of the LaurelBC trilogy on the Arrow show.  On the other hand, I guess we can excuse Oliver this one because he just got killed.

 

Writers get bonus points if they reference the fable of the scorpion and the frog.

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ban1o

ban1o

I'm sorry it's not just Felicity but the fact that anybody in Team Arrow, Roy, Laurel and Diggle (or Oliver!!!!!!) would even consider teaming up with Malcolm reinforces they are trying to set up Malcolm as some sort of anti hero imo. Why would they do that?

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Guest

Guest

I'm sorry it's not just Felicity but the fact that anybody in Team Arrow, Roy, Laurel and Diggle (or Oliver!!!!!!) would even consider teaming up with Malcolm reinforces they are trying to set up Malcolm as some sort of anti hero imo. Why would they do that?

 

It feels like everyone on this show has selective memory loss because Malcolm killed over 500 people without any remorse, including his only son. And even when Oliver offered Malcolm his protection from the LOA in 304 or whatever episode that was, it was such a dumb idea. Yeah, 'let's protect the man who killed my best friend and all those people and isn't even sorry about it because that makes sense.' And it's even more ridiculous that they'd consider teaming up with him now, especially after what he's done to Sara and Thea and oh yeah, sending Oliver off to his death. 

 

I really hope Felicity sticks to her guns and refuses to work with him because someone has to. 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

The thing about the LoA going after Malcolm is that it wasn't because he killed Sara, it was because he broke the League rules with the Undertaking.  Oliver protecting Merlyn from the punishment fitting his crime because he's Thea's bio-daddy didn't make sense then.

 

It makes even less sense now that Oliver knows Malcolm corrupted Thea by brainwashing her and using her to kill Sara.

 

What he should do is offer Malcolm to the League in exchange for them leaving Thea alone. What he's going to do boggles my mind.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

The thing about the LoA going after Malcolm is that it wasn't because he killed Sara, it was because he broke the League rules with the Undertaking.  Oliver protecting Merlyn from the punishment fitting his crime because he's Thea's bio-daddy didn't make sense then.

 

It makes even less sense now that Oliver knows Malcolm corrupted Thea by brainwashing her and using her to kill Sara.

 

What he should do is offer Malcolm to the League in exchange for them leaving Thea alone. What he's going to do boggles my mind.

 

What are the consequences if Oliver lets the LOA have Malcolm? Thea's really mad and doesn't speak to him again? Skip off to some other country. Boo fucking hoo. At least she'd wouldn't be brainwashed and drugged. At least she'd be in control of her own life. 

 

If Guggenheim is so gung ho about skating close to the Shark Jumping line, eventually he's going to cross it whether he means to or not.

 

Regarding the ATOM suit, it does remind me of Robocop. It's a'ight. I perused a few comment sections where the pic of the suit was posted and I was surprised at how 'meh' people seem to be. Most thought it was okay but hated the helmet. I thought people would be way more excited for it. Guess Ray's not as popular as I figured based on the way they're pushing him. I'm betting that once the suit's in action, it'll get a better response. 

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