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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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(edited)

I've gotten the strong impression that TVGuide does not like Laurel.

ETA: ah ok, I see what you mean. I was thinking of them naming Laurel one of the worst TV characters awhile back, and figured it was more along those lines.

Edited by Starfish35
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(edited)

That recap was just such a clusterfuck, maybe its just Natalie Abrams. 

Apparantly she was confused how Oliver can be in love with Felicity without knowing her.

 

 

 

 

In an otherwise spotless sophomore season, Arrow seemingly succumbed to tantalizing fan-bait, giving those Olicity 'shippers exactly what they wanted while protecting themselves by assuring others that it was all a trick. And surely the implications of this will be felt in the third season, enough to keep that love triangle at least intact. But there's a fine line between loving someone and being in love with someone.
With that being said, here's why we should've seen the ruse coming: How the heck can Oliver Queen love Felicity when he doesn't even really know her? The audience barely knows much about the former Queen Consolidated IT girl-turned-member of Team Arrow other than scarce hints that producers have promised to explore further. That's not to say that Felicity isn't an interesting character, but does Oliver really have time to get to know her on a deeper level when he's been busy saving Starling City and is already emotionally tied to the Lance sisters? The moment wasn't earned enough for it to be real at all, making it that much harder to swallow in hindsight.
Edited by Velocity23
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Has there been any Diggle info or David sighting on the set of Arrow? Both Devon Aoki and Cynthia Addison have been seen on the sets of Arrow but no info on Diggle yet and aren't they wrapping filming for the first episode in a day or two?

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(edited)

That recap was just such a clusterfuck, maybe its just Natalie Abrams. 

Apparantly she was confused how Oliver can be in love with Felicity without knowing her.

I guess the fact that Oliver and Felicity literally spent most of their time together, their days AND nights working side by side, completely flew over her head.

Edited by foreverevolving
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Well David isn't such an avid tweeter and it depends where he has his scenes? If inside or outside. And maybe in premiere his story revolves more about Lyla and the baby, so maybe more inside scenes. 


 

I guess the fact that Oliver and Felicity literally spent most of their time together, their days AND nights working side by side, completely flew over her head.

I mean she doesn't know Oliver in her bones like Laurel, so i guess Felicity cant compare. 

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I still remember the hilarious recap Natalie Abrams from tVGuide did after season finale about Lauren and Olivers great love because of history.

I actually created an account to comment, because that recap was such nonsense. Not only was she claiming that Oliver didn't love Felicity (which yeah, at that point it's debatable) but she was claiming that he didn't care about her even a little bit.

To keep this on topic, I think if/when Oliver and Felicity get together, Sara will be happy for them.

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(edited)

What the latest spoilers confirm for me is that CL will at least be heavily recurring in season 3. I was a bit skeptical at first, but I think she should at least appear in 10-12 season 3 episodes. It just sucks that I have completely lost faith in the producers and writers of Arrow that I am now constantly looking for the catch. For Sara to return straight away, in the Canary costume and mentally well-adjusted seems way too easy to me after her dramatic departure at the end of season 2. After 5-6 months spent in the company of deadly assassins, there has surely got to be a change and the most likely I can think of would be of emotional/psychological nature. So I sadly suspect that Sara and Oliver will probably cross paths while they are hunting down the same target and then we will probably get the same "to kill or not to kill" debate - only that Sara will go for the kill this time because she's with the League now and that's part of her job. Nyssa may be with her, but it's also possible that Sara will be in SC on her own and that KL will return to Vancouver to film some flashback scenes (e.g. Nyssa rescuing Sara at sea).

Edited by shadow2008
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For Sara to return straight away, in the Canary costume and mentally well-adjusted seems way too easy to me after her dramatic departure at the end of season 2.

 

That's assuming she ever even left. She boarded the boat, but then her father collapsed right at the end of the docks. She could've stayed in SC for all we know.

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The show is going to pick up five or six months later. Even if Sara did stay in town for her father's initial diagnosis eventually the League would call her back. By the time Arrow comes back on Quentin will most likely be recovered and Sara will have been gone for a while.

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The show is going to pick up five or six months later. Even if Sara did stay in town for her father's initial diagnosis eventually the League would call her back. By the time Arrow comes back on Quentin will most likely be recovered and Sara will have been gone for a while.

Probably, I just don't like assuming anything where this show is concerned.

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(edited)

If Quentin is being named Chief in the season opener, he's probably recovered and been back at work for quite a while.

 

I still have a bet with one of the people commenting on Natalie Abrams' review that we will find out who Oliver really cares about next season. She's convinced that it's Laurel and he was willing to sacrifice Felicity to save Laurel.

 

I find Sara too seemingly ordinary a title. The examples listed reference people but never their direct name. There's no Barry, or Helena, Or Nyssa or Slade. The title tells a deeper story about them than just an identifier. That's why I'm expecting the name "Sara" in this case to some how come with a special meaning or something to subvert the simple label of Sara. Just what that is going to be I don't know.

It may be something special about Sara that we don't know about, or it may be an episode devoted to her missing years.  There have been flashes of backstory for other characters (Diggle, Laurel) but never a whole episode.

 

I hope Felicity's back story is not too over the top or unbelievable with her father as some sword wielding villain from Oliver's past or some vicious monster to come in the future. For me, the beauty of Felicity lays in the fact that she is a perfectly ordinary character, relatable in its simplicity and beautiful in the complexity that surrounds her. [snip]

She doesn't need to be someone's daughter or lover to be relevant, though those aspects cannot be disregarded. And since the show is about Oliver so he has to tie in some where, I just think that the link should be natural and not forced and doesn't undermine Felicity's significance on the show.

I agree, it would be nice if she could just be a her own person rather than defined by a comic book hero or villain.

 

But the problem is that on this show, if you don't have the extended connection, you got nuthin'.  After appearing in 42 episodes, all we know about her is that 1. she graduated from MIT in 2009; 2. her father left when she was young; 3. she doesn't get on well with her mother who is a cocktail waitress in Las Vegas; 4. she dyes her hair; and 5. she's Jewish.  Two facts from s1, three from s2.

 

Compare that to Sara, who has been in 22 episodes and we know about her family and her relationship to each one, her relationship with Ivo, her time on the Amazo and how much she hated being in the LoA , her training sand her relationship with Nyssa and Sin.

 

The show could go for another 3 years and still not give us any information about Felicity herself unless her family ties into the comic book world.

 

Taking the rest to the Heartaches thread.

Edited by statsgirl
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But the problem is that on this show, if you don't have the extended connection, you got nuthin'.  After appearing in 42 episodes, all we know about her is that 1. she graduated from MIT in 2009; 2. her father left when she was young; 3. she doesn't get on well with her mother who is a cocktail waitress in Las Vegas; 4. she dyes her hair; and 5. she's Jewish.  Two facts from s1, three from s2.

 

Compare that to Sara, who has been in 22 episodes and we know about her family and her relationship to each one, her relationship with Ivo, her time on the Amazo and how much she hated being in the LoA , her training sand her relationship with Nyssa and Sin.

 

The show could go for another 3 years and still not give us any information about Felicity herself unless her family ties into the comic book world.

 

Taking the rest to the Heartaches thread.

 

Herein lies my frustration at an episode called "Sara". As if I didn't have enough of Sara thrown at me in the second half of season 2, she now has an episode that has at the very least, something to do with her. A character whom in comparison is far more fleshed out than Felicity. Now if they allow an episode called "Felicity" I'd be happy, but still I'm fairly annoyed at the amount of Sara flying at me.

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Compare that to Sara, who has been in 22 episodes and we know about her family and her relationship to each one, her relationship with Ivo, her time on the Amazo and how much she hated being in the LoA , her training sand her relationship with Nyssa and Sin.

 

Do we really know Sara's relationship with her family? We hardly saw her interact with them. So I have no idea what kind of relationship she had with her mother they barely spoke to each other, with Quentin I got that he was happy that his youngest child wasn't dead but I don't know what kind of relationship they had before, Laurel was barely part of the show so we didn't see any real sisters interaction. We never saw the full extent of Sara and Ivo's relationship (was she sleeping with him? Was she his partner? I don't know they never answered that). We saw bits and pieces of her relationship with Nyssa and Sin but not a whole lot. 

 

Just like Felicity, Sara's story mostly revolved around Oliver. Which makes sense being it's his show. It was about how Sara connected to Oliver. Yes, she had other people, but a majority of her story was about Oliver. Sara got a bit more bits and pieces of family backstory (because two of her family members are main characters) and she had a friend that spent more time with Roy and Thea than her. 

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There are no words obscene enough to say how I feel about using Felicity to prop up Laurel now.   Oliver, Barry, Ray and now Laurel -- she's the show's catalyst, used to affect everyone else's storyline but never having a story herself.

 

Do we really know Sara's relationship with her family? We hardly saw her interact with them. So I have no idea what kind of relationship she had with her mother they barely spoke to each other, with Quentin I got that he was happy that his youngest child wasn't dead but I don't know what kind of relationship they had before, Laurel was barely part of the show so we didn't see any real sisters interaction. We never saw the full extent of Sara and Ivo's relationship (was she sleeping with him? Was she his partner? I don't know they never answered that). We saw bits and pieces of her relationship with Nyssa and Sin but not a whole lot. 

We had flashbacks to how they were pre-island.  Laurel was the star child but both Quentin and Dinah cared about and loved Sara.

 

We don't know all that much about Sara's relationships with Ivo, Nyssa and Sin but we know nothing about Felicity's relationships with anyone other than Oliver, Diggle and Walter.

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I don't know what Natalie Abrams deal is but I haven't had much respect for her since she tried to start a shipping war between Olicity and Lauiver shippers last year by posting the Season Premiere promo with the Olicity swing and Thea/Roy making out and tried to claim the CW was shipper baiting by having the Olicity scene with Lauiver going hot & heavy.

No idea if she was just too dumb to realize the mistake (never noted a correction) or deliberately starting shit to get traffic or just hates Olicity/loves Lauiver.

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I'm hoping that they are very separate arcs that have nothing to do with each other so that Felicity isn't tainted by she-who-must-not-be-named.

 

It's so annoying, Felicity doesn't really have anything to herself, and the only people who we've seen her become friends or interact with (Sara, Diggle, Barry, Roy) all have connections to Oliver, and now if they add Laurel to the group, the only female friends she'll be shown to have will be Oliver's exes. And there is something really gross about that. 

 

How hard is it to give Felicity (arguably the shows money maker) her own storyline?

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(edited)

Well, that's the first mention I've seen about Laurel (while in a blurb about Felicity) since she show ended and it's the same old thing with her. "We have something really interesting for Laurel" said ad nauseam since the beginning of last season. 

 

I don't get the triangle angle from that but more of they are going to be the bestest friends with Laurel being in the Arrow cave, because they are going to try to have KC act like she gives a shit about Felicity. We'll probably see them hanging out like girlfriends. They need to get Laurel liked so they think the best way would be to have her hang around the fan favorite character all the time. 

 

 

We had flashbacks to how they were pre-island.  Laurel was the star child but both Quentin and Dinah cared about and loved Sara.

 

So we know that Sara's family cares about her like most families do. How is that knowing everything about them? 

Edited by Sakura12
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The more i read about s3 the more afraid I am. What on earth do Laurel and Felicity have to do with each other? For some reason I just cannot see them being friends, never mind best buddies. Seeing as Diggle has his own business going on, I guess I won't get much shade thrown at Laurel for being in the Arrowcave.

 

If by the middle of s3, or shoot the first 9 episodes of s3 we still have no better grasp of Felicity and where she's at, the EPs and writers have failed this show. To me.

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Where are you guys getting that the show's going to try to sell Laurel and Felicity as BFFs from those two sentences? I don't think he means they have big things planned for Felicity and Laurel together, but as separate characters. Does anyone have a screen shot of Laurel's blurb by any chance?

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(edited)

I'm hoping that Felicity will contact Nyssa to remove Laurel.  Or maybe her mysterious father can do something about Laurel.  Maybe Felicity can hack into a data base and get Laurel a job offer in Central City.  

 

 

 

"We have some big things planned for Felicity and Laurel" executive producer Marc Guggenheim says.  "We arc out the entire season beforehand and we have very specific end points for both of them."

Any chance that "specific end point" for Laurel could be off the show?

 

I suppose I should have realized it though -- Felicity is a very popular character and they've tried everything else to make Laurel work.

 

So we know that Sara's family cares about her like most families do.

We don't know that about Felicity though.  We don't know if her mother cares about her, and we have to assume her father didn't because he left.

 

I'm not saying we should have less story for Sara, I like Sara.  I just used her as an example of how little we actually know about Felicity even though she's been on almost twice as many episodes as Sara has.  Even Roy, far less prominent than Felicity, has friends and a life outside Team Arrow.

Edited by statsgirl
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Where are you guys getting that the show's going to try to sell Laurel and Felicity as BFFs from those two sentences? I don't think he means they have big things planned for Felicity and Laurel together, but as separate characters. Does anyone have a screen shot of Laurel's blurb by any chance?

Thank You! I was really confused because I just read it as a quick blurb...we have big plans for both these characters not that the plans mean they're going to be besties or that one character story is dependent upon the other.
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Its the fact that the blurb was supposed to be about Felicity, and then the one who shall not be named gets mention there. They could have easily said something about her in the blurb about Quentin.

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(edited)

I can't read that second screenshot - I'm on my phone - but I find it very interesting that they led with Laurel in an article about Team Arrow. And she has a bigger pic than anyone else. Hmmm. And Diggle and Felicity are after Laurel and Roy. Another hmmm from me. And an eyebrow raise.

Edited by Starfish35
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Its the fact that the blurb was supposed to be about Felicity, and then the one who shall not be named gets mention there. They could have easily said something about her in the blurb about Quentin.

 

Yeah, but her blurb is (of course, yawn) about her feelings for Oliver, and oh, is that going to cause an issue with Laurel? I'm guessing that's what the interviewer asked and that's why MG's answer included both of them. I really don't think it means that much.

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Sorry if you can't see that properly, it says:

 

Laurel Lance played by Katie Cassidy. Laurel finally learned of ex-beau Oliver's extracurricular activities ;ate in season 2 - news that she took much better than the revelation that he had been sleeping with her sister Sara (Caity Lotz) when the Queen's Gambit sunk. Now she's a recovering addict whose gig in the DA's office is sure to benefit them both. "He's [catching] criminals and she is sending them to prison," says executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. "There is more of a 'Hey, we're doing this together.'"

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"He's [catching] criminals and she is sending them to prison," says executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. "There is more of a 'Hey, we're doing this together.'"

 

If Laurel has to be a part of the team, honestly, this is about what I would hope for as far as that's concerned.

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Sorry if you can't see that properly, it says:

Laurel Lance played by Katie Cassidy. Laurel finally learned of ex-beau Oliver's extracurricular activities ;ate in season 2 - news that she took much better than the revelation that he had been sleeping with her sister Sara (Caity Lotz) when the Queen's Gambit sunk. Now she's a recovering addict whose gig in the DA's office is sure to benefit them both. "He's [catching] criminals and she is sending them to prison," says executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. "There is more of a 'Hey, we're doing this together.'"

Thanks. Oh look Kreisberg is promoting Oliver and Laurel working together. I'm shocked. Only not. Interestingly however still no mention of that which shall not be named. And no inclusion of Sara in the Team Arrow lineup.

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It's the same old thing -- Diggle has his family and a lot of meaty emotional stuff, Quentin has being chief and working with the Arrow, Laurel has her work in the DA's office sending criminals to prison and Felicity?  her feelings for Oliver and rivalry with Laurel.  No storyline of her own, yet.  Ever.

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Roy Harper Played by Colton Haynes. Thea's now-ex is a former street rat with a heart of gold [and abs of steel] who started out as the hooded vigilante's original fanboy in Season 1. Once Brother Blood injected the kid with the super-soldier serum Mirakuru, Roy's rage and out-of-control powers led Oliver to take him under his wing eventually training him- and tricking him out with his own mask. Felicity and Diggle are still not sold on the unstable teen. "The others are waiting for him to crack so they can get rid of him," says Haynes. 

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If they try to prop up laurel by making here Felicity's friend it could end up being tragically hysterical or painfully horrible, I'm about 50/50 on that.

Really hoping there was suppose to be a period in that sentence. We have really great things planned for Laurel. And Felicity.

I will send Laxative brownies to the writers if I have to hear Laurel give Oliver and Felicity relationship advice.

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(edited)

Im going to hang out until SDCC and either be done with the show based on what comes out or maybe give S3 a shot but take a really long break from fandom.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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"She's clearly into Oliver, which causes waves with Laurel" doesn't sound like friendship at all to me. It sounds to me like THE OPPOSITE of anything I ever wanna watch on tv. UGH. Pitching Laurel against Felicity is such a stupid idea from every angle you can look at it.

 

I repeat: UGH.

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I had low expectations when I started watching the show and was pleasantly surprised. These spoilers are helping me set my expectations low for the show again, so maybe I will enjoy this season.

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(edited)

I don't know, none of this upsets me too much. Every single time I read a spoiler or saw a set pic from last season that was questionable, I was full of gloom and doom, and not once was any one of them as badly executed as I'd made it out to be in my head (a majority of them weren't bad at all).

Edited by apinknightmare
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(edited)

He's [catching] criminals and she is sending them to prison," says executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. "There is more of a 'Hey, we're doing this together.'"

 

This really scares me. In my heart. They really don't want to relinquish their hold on Oliver and Laurel together in some form. Even this way, they'll probably try to hook them up because of reasons.

 

For some reason calling Felicity "chatty" sounds so catty on my head.

Edited by ArrowLimbo
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This really scares me. In my heart. They really don't want to relinquish their hold on Oliver and Laurel together in some form. Even this way, they'll probably try to hook them up because of reasons.

 

She was always going to work with him in some way though, now that she knows. If this is how they manage it, with them partnering together to catch/prosecute criminals? That's the most professional way it could possibly happen.

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Roy's rage and out-of-control powers led Oliver to take him under his wing eventually training him- and tricking him out with his own mask. Felicity and Diggle are still not sold on the unstable teen. "The others are waiting for him to crack so they can get rid of him," says Haynes. 

Why is this so funny? Is this just Roy's paranoid delusions or do Diggle and Felicity roll their eyes at each other behind Roy's back? I'm imagining them gaslighting him to speed things along - sneaking caffeinated coffee into the decaf, pouring a little bleach in with his red hoodies, loosening the screws on Sally so that he falls every time he attempts it, moving the targets a foot further away and to the side when he isn't looking... anything to get him to flip out so Oliver will finally give him the boot.

 

Geez, can you imagine if Diggle and Felicity had a Team Arrow Burn Book? I think I'm going to enjoy them barely tolerating Roy.

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I don't know, none of this upsets me too much. Every single time I read a spoiler or saw a set pic from last season that was questionable, I was full of gloom and doom, and not once was any one of them as badly executed as I'd made it out to be in my head (a majority of them weren't bad at all).

In all honesty i usually just eye roll when i see spoilers, and i pretty much avoid interviews and when i do read them i just shrug my shoulders as in "okay, well the episode is x time from now i'm gonna wait and see how it's really gonna play" why? because spoilers and interviews tend to be 50% of the time misguided information given on purpose, and the other 50% wrong. so.. yea. spoilers and interviews don't affect me much cause i don't let it. i enjoy Arrow far too much, i Love the team and the chemistry Stephen and Emily has - which for me bring many fonds memories of watching Doug&Carol, Donna&Josh and other couples; they have that quality which is why i'm sticking, even with Laurel around (and i refuse to call her she-who-must-not-be-named, for the same reason dumbledore told Harry regarding Voldemort, plus you know, it's an insult to voldy being compered to her).

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(edited)

*puts her pink glasses on*

They have an ending point for both. Well, it can mean that Felicity ends up as the official leading leady (which she is already de facto, YMMV) and Laurel end ups phased out of the show.

I mean, "waves" doesn't sound like "friendship waves", and considering how beloved Felicity seems to be, and how divisive the other is, it doesn't bode well for the latter. And in universe, too: I can hope that Diggle, at least, will verbally bitchslap her.

Moreover, it seems that the Arrowcave will be spared from her presence.

If it happened like this, I could finally enjoy watching again, and trust the writers again.

 

Talking about trust...

*takes her pink glasses off, clears throat*

Keep Lady Voldemort ('] you're so right!) her triangles of doom and vacuum of suckitude the fuck away from my awesome Felicity!

EBR and Felicity can do a lot for the characters/actors who have scenes with them but they aren't miracle-makers.

Moreover, they say that Felicity is into Oliver (and Oliver is into Felicity, since he wants to take her on a date) so it made me  fear a Laurel-related Big Misunderstanding and worse than a triangle, a quadrangle. Ugh.

 

*tries the pink glasses again*

I really hope they keep the juicy stuff about Felicity (and Diggle, which would explain the lack of significant spoiler) under wraps because it's going to be the BFD this season, and this blurb just alludes to one scene in E1 or E2.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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How is him catching criminals and her putting them away even going to work?

Oliver: "So Laurel I caught this bad guy with no arrest warrant, no admissible evidence, no eye witness except for me and I can't testify, and no real proof of wrong doing. Also I kinda shot him with an arrow to get a confession out of him. "

Laurel, "No problem, I'm a horrible lawyer but I got this."

I guess it is the best we could have hoped for, at least it doesn't mention her training.

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How is him catching criminals and her putting them away even going to work?

Oliver: "So Laurel I caught this bad guy with no arrest warrant, no admissible evidence, no eye witness except for me and I can't testify, and no real proof of wrong doing. Also I kinda shot him with an arrow to get a confession out of him. "

Laurel, "No problem, I'm a horrible lawyer but I got this."

I guess it is the best we could have hoped for, at least it doesn't mention her training.

Well, it seems that blackmail is extremely handy in the Starling City justice system (ask Malcolm re:State vs Queen) so considering Laurel's unique competence, I think it will work fine ;)

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(edited)

Sorry if you can't see that properly, it says:

 

Laurel Lance played by Katie Cassidy. Laurel finally learned of ex-beau Oliver's extracurricular activities ;ate in season 2 - news that she took much better than the revelation that he had been sleeping with her sister Sara (Caity Lotz) when the Queen's Gambit sunk. Now she's a recovering addict whose gig in the DA's office is sure to benefit them both. "He's [catching] criminals and she is sending them to prison," says executive producer Andrew Kreisberg. "There is more of a 'Hey, we're doing this together.'"

 

Does this possibly confirm that Laurel will be the new DA? I guess if the writers ever want to set Laurel on the vigilante path, they could write some story where a clearly guilty criminal is let off by the corrupt justice system and Laurel decides to take matters into her own hands...

 

...(btw, does this scream 'Manhunter' to anyone else?)

Edited by strikera0
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(edited)

http://www.fanforum.com/f15/arrow-s-s-56-gb-can-take-his-certain-degree-make-hello-kitty-handbags-out-hipkarma-63128072/index9.html

Apparently there is a Q&A section. I don't have the original link but it's in the spoiler section on Fan Forum.

I can't copy they ask about Laurel becoming BC.

The answer is IF she does undergo hero training it will be over the course of the season.

Why the if?

Edited by Morrigan2575
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(edited)

I think I find this so annoying because it's a 1-2-3 punch this week - she's all about Oliver, she's being used to pimp new characters and Flash crossovers, and now we get Laurel in a paragraph that should have mentioned Felicity helping Oliver take down the season's Big Bad or just Anything Other Than Another Character.

Edited by poetgirl925
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(edited)

http://www.fanforum.com/f15/arrow-s-s-56-gb-can-take-his-certain-degree-make-hello-kitty-handbags-out-hipkarma-63128072/index9.html

Apparently there is a Q&A section. I don't have the original link but it's in the spoiler section on Fan Forum.

I can't copy they ask about Laurel becoming BC.

The answer is IF she does undergo hero training it will be over the course of the season.

Why the if?

 

Because apart from O/F, fans wondering if/when Laurel is going to become the BC (for whatever reason) is probably the second hottest topic. They aren't going to outright confirm anything - it keeps people talking. Plus, he says "hero training," he doesn't say she's training to be BC (Manhunter, please).

Edited by apinknightmare
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