Spoiler Discussion Thread

[jay741982]

So maybe Team Arrow bands together to save Thea? Though I like the idea of Felicity being snatched and Oliver Diggle Roy and Laurel racing to save with Oliver whooping on Slade cause of Felicity

Edited January 25, 2015 by jay741982

[apinknightmare]

Oh, he's coming for Felicity. She jabbed him in the neck with a syringe full of the mirakuru cure. Whether he thinks Oliver loves her nor not, she's got to be at the top of his shit list.

[HighHopes]

Wasn't Stephen Amell's spoiler for the finale "WAIT. THEY'RE WHERE?" too? I'm not 100% positive it was the finale, but I'm sure I've heard that as a spoiler for a previous episode too. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by HighHopes

[apinknightmare]

Wasn't Stephen Amell's spoiler for the finale "WAIT. THEY'RE WHERE?" too? I'm not 100% positive it was the finale, but I'm sure I've heard that as a spoiler for a previous episode too.

Yep.

[Morrigan2575]

Wasn't Stephen Amell's spoiler for the finale "WAIT. THEY'RE WHERE?" too? I'm not 100% positive it was the finale, but I'm sure I've heard that as a spoiler for a previous episode too.

I could be wrong but I think it was "he's where" and referred to Oliver waking up in Hong Kong at the very end of 223.

[WaitandHope]

I thought he was referring to Oliver and Felicity being at the mansion in the middle of all of the chaos. But yes something like this was definitely his 223 spoiler too.

[jay741982]

Oh, he's coming for Felicity. She jabbed him in the neck with a syringe full of the mirakuru cure. Whether he thinks Oliver loves her nor not, she's got to be at the top of his shit list.

Yes you gotta be right Poor Felicity:( she hears he breaks out she's gonna be terrified. Oliver is gonna want to kill him. I read someone say that they think Slade before being Mirakurued would've respected her for what she did.

[apinknightmare]

I thought he was referring to Oliver and Felicity being at the mansion in the middle of all of the chaos. But yes something like this was definitely his 223 spoiler too.

 

I think he was referring to either him, Diggle and Felicity being back on Lian Yu (I honestly can't remember if he said "he's where" or "they're where" - I have vague recollections of both, haha) or Oliver being in Hong Kong at the end of 2x23.

[KirkB]

With Oliver dead, as far as he knows, maybe Malcolm breaks Slade out to use HIM to fight Ra's?

[kismet]

Watching the Nocking Point video posted at the Behind the Mask thread, Stephen's fan reaction predictions go:

 

311: Ehhhhhh + deflates

312: YEEEEAH-- Oooh *disappoint*

313: WAIT, THEY'RE WHERE???

314: Booyah!

315: shocked/deadpan + Wait, what?

These are my guesses...

311 - BC doesn't do that well. TA makes bad choices. Brick gets upper hand. MM comes in to save the day

312 - Oliver returns, things don't go well. L finds out about MM. She decides to plan her revenge against him. Olicity declares love, but decides to not pursue. We find out MM journey to evil.

313 - Epi will open up with L not in SC. L decides to follow his example to train w/ LoA get over her grief/seek revenge. Its supposed to be canaries, so I'm not surprised they might be somewhere else... Think this might be when L goes to Nyssa for advice, meaning she travels to Nanda Prabat. Her vision fight w/ S is part of her training. Think ur right that TA may be in Hong Kong, probably modern day Triad issue. Feel like we wont get O flashbacks.

314 - I think Ras or the Triad will release Slade. Slade gets his due, think it will be be linked to spec/spoilers that are hinting DJ might be related to Slade. DJ convinces Thea that Slade needs to be saved. Some more brainwashing. He's likely gonna return and then get defeated. Don't see MM involved, but see Thea involved.

315 - This one is tentatively titled Nanda Prabat and being shot be Gregory Smith. Maybe they go to NP to pick BC up? This will be when the finale battle will be revealed. In S2 this is when Slade revealed himself to Oliver & set-up the finale. I think this will be when O has to begin to make decision that will negatively influence his relationship w/ F. This is epi right before "The Offer" which makes me think TA will have to make allegiance with either MM or LoA. I think its gonna be LoA, and my gut tells me L will have something to do with it after she finds out about MM being the one responsible for Sara's death.

316 - we get the offer set-up in 315

317 - lets the consequences of those alliances simmer while RP & F hang out in CC. Felicity gets hurt. Mama comes back for 318.

 

SA didnt reveal much, but the more time I spend trying to figuring it all, the more Im excited to see how they get to where they're going.

 

[jay741982]

These are my guesses...

311 - BC doesn't do that well. TA makes bad choices. Brick gets upper hand. MM comes in to save the day

312 - Oliver returns, things don't go well. L finds out about MM. She decides to plan her revenge against him. Olicity declares love, but decides to not pursue. We find out MM journey to evil.

313 - Epi will open up with L not in SC. L decides to follow his example to train w/ LoA get over her grief/seek revenge. Its supposed to be canaries, so I'm not surprised they might be somewhere else... Think this might be when L goes to Nyssa for advice, meaning she travels to Nanda Prabat. Her vision fight w/ S is part of her training. Think ur right that TA may be in Hong Kong, probably modern day Triad issue. Feel like we wont get O flashbacks.

314 - I think Ras or the Triad will release Slade. Slade gets his due, think it will be be linked to spec/spoilers that are hinting DJ might be related to Slade. DJ convinces Thea that Slade needs to be saved. Some more brainwashing. He's likely gonna return and then get defeated. Don't see MM involved, but see Thea involved.

315 - This one is tentatively titled Nanda Prabat and being shot be Gregory Smith. Maybe they go to NP to pick BC up? This will be when the finale battle will be revealed. In S2 this is when Slade revealed himself to Oliver & set-up the finale. I think this will be when O has to begin to make decision that will negatively influence his relationship w/ F. This is epi right before "The Offer" which makes me think TA will have to make allegiance with either MM or LoA. I think its gonna be LoA, and my gut tells me L will have something to do with it after she finds out about MM being the one responsible for Sara's death.

316 - we get the offer set-up in 315

317 - lets the consequences of those alliances simmer while RP & F hang out in CC. Felicity gets hurt. Mama comes back for 318.

 

SA didnt reveal much, but the more time I spend trying to figuring it all, the more Im excited to see how they get to where they're going.

Pretty good Speculation there Kismet I can see a lot of this going down. In regards to the Olicity that line of "I don't want to be a woman you love" happening in the declarations of love. She'd say it in anger after Oliver says I love you too but... whatever dumb thing keeping them apart

[apinknightmare]

These are my guesses...

313 - Epi will open up with L not in SC. L decides to follow his example to train w/ LoA get over her grief/seek revenge. Its supposed to be canaries, so I'm not surprised they might be somewhere else... Think this might be when L goes to Nyssa for advice, meaning she travels to Nanda Prabat. Her vision fight w/ S is part of her training. Think ur right that TA may be in Hong Kong, probably modern day Triad issue. Feel like we wont get O flashbacks.

 

Count Vertigo is in this ep, and there was a Laurel/Vertigo scene that we have BTS video of. So that fight must actually happen in SC, since it's a Vertigo-induced hallucination. 

[Chaser]

If anyone is curious, MG confirmed he is a massive Billy Joel fan. I'm then assuming his answer of Vienna is a really good thing if you ship Oliver and Felicity.

[apinknightmare]

The Oliver Queen you know is dead, I have decided that I can no longer try to be both, and I have decided that the Arrow is the only way I can survive and protect the ones I loved and my city. MM & LoA plan on seeking retribution and destroying everything. I can't be who I need to be and be Oliver Queen. It would somehow parallel his choices in S2 to put the hood back on, except this time buckle down & be like S1 Arrow. I think Felicity will have some obvious issues but will also realize that she can't go thru that much pain again losing the man she loved. I think she will tell him she loves him and because she loves him she understands his choices, but can't be around to watch him die again. It will be heart wrenching. Tears heard around the world. Twitter & tumblr may crash. But alas, we have been warned by JB that "OQ is dead".

 

I've been thinking about this...what are the chances that when Oliver returns, Felicity just wants to push aside all the BS and be with him, because she knows life's too short and she already lost him once, and the last thing he ever said to her was "I love you." She tells him how she feels, kisses him or whatever, and he pushes her away and tells her that he's got to really let go of Oliver Queen or some other such nonsense, and she's finally had enough, and that's why she's mad as hell? It's basically a rehash of 3x01 - they wouldn't do that yet again, would they? But...I just feel like any Olicity moment that ends with her being angry is going to be the result of Oliver being the dumb shit that he is.

 

Sure, it could have something to do with Malcolm or Ra's, but I kind of get the feeling that Oliver won't be back for long in 3x12, and the show won't really be dealing with any kind of fallout from him being gone until 3x13 (Laurel with the team, etc.). But then there's the issue of "someone" coming between them...unless that someone is the Arrow. IDK.

[Morrigan2575]

If anyone is curious, MG confirmed he is a massive Billy Joel fan. I'm then assuming his answer of Vienna is a really good thing if you ship Oliver and Felicity.

I'm curious but what about the song ever indicated it was a bad thing for Olicity?

[dtissagirl]

317 - lets the consequences of those alliances simmer while RP & F hang out in CC. Felicity gets hurt. Mama comes back for 318.

 

Felicity goes to Central City in Flash 118, so if she gets hurt, it's gotta be there, not in Arrow 317.

[Chaser]

I'm curious but what about the song ever indicated it was a bad thing for Olicity?

I'm not sure (the song is beautiful and hopeful), but I saw people questioning. 

 

I was hoping MG was a fan of Billy Joel and had a good understanding of the song; looks like he does.

[kismet]

Count Vertigo is in this ep, and there was a Laurel/Vertigo scene that we have BTS video of. So that fight must actually happen in SC, since it's a Vertigo-induced hallucination. 

Thanks, missed that video! Just speculating.. That does seem more probable. Maybe Nyssa just comes to town then.

[Kordi]

I'm not sure (the song is beautiful and hopeful), but I saw people questioning. 

 

I was hoping MG was a fan of Billy Joel and had a good understanding of the song; looks like he does.

 

Well, in the song lyrics it says:

 

"You've got your passion, you've got your pride

But don't you know that only fools are satisfied?

Dream on, but don't imagine they'll all come true, ooh

When will you realize Vienna waits for you?"

Now, this could possibly be interpreted as a hint from MG that Oliciters (who ain't fools, right?) won't be satisfied after all: They can dream of Oliver hooking up with Felicity, but this dream won't come true... (at least not this season) :-(

Sorry for being so pessimistic...

Edited January 25, 2015 by Kordi

[jay741982]

Well, in the song lyrics it says: Now, this could possibly be interpreted as a hint from MG that Oliciters (who ain't fools, right?) won't be satisfied after all: They can dream of Oliver hooking up with Felicity, but this dream won't come true... (at least not this season) :-(Sorry for being so pessimistic...

Or that Oliver is a fool and he won't be satisfied Until he gets his head out of his ass and realizes he has someone waiting for him? I know Felicity isn't waiting for him but she does love him and probably always will so in essence she will wait? IDK I'm speculating

[Chaser]

You have to take the song as a whole. I believe Morrigan2575 posted a link to an interview with Joel; he breaks the song down wonderfully.

[Morrigan2575]

Well, in the song lyrics it says:

Now, this could possibly be interpreted as a hint from MG that Oliciters (who ain't fools, right?) won't be satisfied after all: They can dream of Oliver hooking up with Felicity, but this dream won't come true... (at least not this season) :-(

Sorry for being so pessimistic...

That's one refrain in the entire song, I don't know if it's wise to take it out of context.

Here's the entire song.

Slow down, you crazy child

you're so ambitious for a juvenile

But then if you're so smart, tell me

Why are you still so afraid?

Where's the fire, what's the hurry about?

You'd better cool it off before you burn it out

You've got so much to do and

Only so many hours in a day

But you know that when the truth is told..

That you can get what you want or you can just get old

You're gonna kick off before you even

Get halfway through

When will you realize, Vienna waits for you?

Slow down, you're doing fine

You can't be everything you want to be

Before your time

Although it's so romantic on the borderline tonight

Tonight, ...

Too bad but it's the life you lead

you're so ahead of yourself that you forgot what you need

Though you can see when you're wrong, you know

You can't always see when you're right. you're right

You've got your passion, you've got your pride

but don't you know that only fools are satisfied?

Dream on, but don't imagine they'll all come true

When will you realize, Vienna waits for you?

Slow down, you crazy child

and take the phone off the hook and disappear for awhile

it's all right, you can afford to lose a day or two

When will you realize, ..Vienna waits for you?

And you know that when the truth is told

that you can get what you want or you can just get old

You're gonna kick off before you even get halfway through

Why don't you realize, . Vienna waits for you

When will you realize, Vienna waits for you

The song isn't about making a fool out of Olicity fans or MG telling Olicity fans haha you idiots, you're not getting what you want! .

Vienna is about the future about the rest of your life. Vienna is a metaphor, the future waits for you, your life waits for you, so don't worry about it. Take time and enjoy your life.

Here's Billy's explanation for the song.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_%28Billy_Joel_song%29

Edited January 25, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Every time Guggenheim mentions Billy Joel I remember that episode of How I Met Your Mother that Morena Baccarin had crazy eyes. And Marshall goes "she likes Italian food, I also like Italian food. She likes Billy Joel. I also like... music." And then I keep wating for Crazy Eyes on Arrow to make a Billy Joel reference. :)

 

Back to spec, if they're playing this as if Ra's killed "Oliver", and only "The Arrow" survived, then laying on thick in both 308 and 309 that Oliver's humanity is way more important than him being the Arrow is gonna look super shitty to me. I'm expecting it to go the other way around, but then I remember 312 is eleven episodes away from the season finale, and they will probably stall Oliver's development.

 

It actually mirrors 2A, even -- shit ton of streamlined character development going on there, then January/February stalled ALL OF IT for like, 6 episodes.

[Chaser]

Its interesting, because I thought that they rushed a lot of his developments in 3A. When he said that "I didn't want to die down here", when he choose to go to see Felicity at her office, when he went to Diggle's for dinner instead of being alone, admitting he wasn't emotionally healthy…That was a lot of growth before the mid season finale. 

[dtissagirl]

I think it's because of the way they break down the season, and the advent of the "mid season finale" [which will never not sound stupid to me, because hello oxymoron]. The fact that episodes 1 through 9 have to tell a somewhat closed story, and then post-hiatus they start something else that deals with the big bad of the season. But I figure they think this has worked for them in the previous seasons, so they keep repeating the pattern.

 

I'm kind of not expecting that much character development until 318, but a whole lot of setting up for whatever ~big thing they're planning for the final stretch of episodes. I hope I'm wrong, btw, but I won't be surprised if I'm not.

[kismet]

I think the Vienna song is positive for Olicity in the long run, but frustrating in the short run. Its a beautiful sentiment, I just don't think it means all is gonna go smoothly for them. So like most of Arrow its is both good & bad news.

 

I think OQ has made significant developments towards being more human, but I think his death is gonna change that growth. Because the show is dark I think it will stall it, even though my hope would be that it accelerates it. But MG seems to like his angst, so we're in for a long haul.

[Guest]

I've been thinking about this...what are the chances that when Oliver returns, Felicity just wants to push aside all the BS and be with him, because she knows life's too short and she already lost him once, and the last thing he ever said to her was "I love you." She tells him how she feels, kisses him or whatever, and he pushes her away and tells her that he's got to really let go of Oliver Queen or some other such nonsense, and she's finally had enough, and that's why she's mad as hell? It's basically a rehash of 3x01 - they wouldn't do that yet again, would they? But...I just feel like any Olicity moment that ends with her being angry is going to be the result of Oliver being the dumb shit that he is.

 

Sure, it could have something to do with Malcolm or Ra's, but I kind of get the feeling that Oliver won't be back for long in 3x12, and the show won't really be dealing with any kind of fallout from him being gone until 3x13 (Laurel with the team, etc.). But then there's the issue of "someone" coming between them...unless that someone is the Arrow. IDK.

 

I know I said it in a jokey comment about the love fern but I really do believe that The Arrow is this 'third' party, if it isn't Malcolm. MG's response to a third party was like 'I'm gonna go with yes' which made it seem like it's not so much another person as it is another identity, otherwise he would have said yes outright.

 

It would certainly fit with the theme of the season and I remember reading something about Oliver being a little more like his s1 self. So I could see Oliver once and for all saying 'I need to be The Arrow.' It is a rehash of what's been said but maybe he's more definite about it this time. I could totally see that happening. Oliver went into that duel with Ra's as both Oliver and the Arrow and he essentially died, so I can see him thinking he needs to be more the Arrow if he's going to defeat him again.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Guest

[statsgirl]

Well, there we go. We have actual confirmation now about when that line will be said. 3x12 - Uprising (mark your calendars, folks). I'm kinda wishing that it will be Rebecca to Malcolm in the flashback.

 

"I don't want to be a woman you love" would be awesome; it would make perfect sense as Rebecca getting angry that Malcolm spends all his time on deals instead of being with his family and it would up the guilt factor when she dies as he's refusing to take her call.

 

I'm worried for Akio's life too. It would explain Maseo and Tatsu's estrangement; 50% of marriages break up after the death of a child.

 

volnixshin asked:

    Hey Marc, why does laurels black canary uniform have fingerless gloves? Isn't that kind of redundant for a secret identity? Especially a lawyer

    

    'Cause it looks cool.

Redundant -- I do not think that words means what you think it means.

Idiotic would be more accurate, although dangerous would work too.

Edited January 25, 2015 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

I think the Vienna song is positive for Olicity in the long run, but frustrating in the short run. Its a beautiful sentiment, I just don't think it means all is gonna go smoothly for them. So like most of Arrow its is both good & bad news.

 

I think OQ has made significant developments towards being more human, but I think his death is gonna change that growth. Because the show is dark I think it will stall it, even though my hope would be that it accelerates it. But MG seems to like his angst, so we're in for a long haul.

if Vienna is his music for Olicity then I would think you're right. Everything comes when it's the right time, knowing these guys they'll stall as long as they can.

[apinknightmare]

"I don't want to be a woman you love" would be awesome; it would make perfect sense as Rebecca getting angry that Malcolm spends all his time on deals instead of being with his family and it would up the guilt factor when she dies as he's refusing to take her call.

 

This would be good. I'm not trying to bury my head in the sand, obviously, since we know something heartbreaking/awful is going to happen at the end of 3x12, but I really don't think that "I don't want to be a woman you love," is something that Felicity says to Oliver. Maybe it's another parallel, like Rebecca says this in the past and Thea says it in the present? To me, "a" woman you love just makes it seem like the speaker is talking about a non-romantic love. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Chaser]

Vienna is a slow burn. I think its fits Olicity.

 

I think EBR is hit or miss on the really dramatic emotional scenes (she has shown a lot of growth since S1 though), but one thing I think she does really well is a deliberate kind of dramatic. Like when Felicity faced off with Malcolm or "They're wrong. This isn't happening because you are a killer it's happening because you were one" or the "Stop Slade" or the (ignoring the slight voice break)"I believe in you."

 

I really hope that is the direction that Felicity takes in the 'Mad as Hell' scene.

Edited January 25, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[Velocity23]

I am starting to think end of 3x13 will be on Lian Yu.

[Chaser]

I am starting to think end of 3x13 will be on Lian Yu.

That's my hope. I want a bottle type episode with O3 Team Arrow and Slade in that prison. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe "The Return" is their return to the island? Oliver's in SC in flashbacks and on the island in present day? IDK.

[kismet]

This would be good. I'm not trying to bury my head in the sand, obviously, since we know something heartbreaking/awful is going to happen at the end of 3x12, but I really don't think that "I don't want to be a woman you love," is something that Felicity says to Oliver. Maybe it's another parallel, like Rebecca says this in the past and Thea says it in the present? To me, "a" woman you love just makes it seem like the speaker is talking about a non-romantic love. 

I think you're right about a non-romantic love... The only way they can spin it romantically is if someone says I want to be "the" woman you love not "a" woman. And I don't see F & O necessarily being in the right place for that convo in 312.  But who knows with these writers they seem to fluctuate from delicate subtlety to banging you over the head with the obvious.

[apinknightmare]

I think you're right about a non-romantic love... The only way they can spin it romantically is if someone says I want to be "the" woman you love not "a" woman. And I don't see F & O necessarily being in the right place for that convo in 312.  But who knows with these writers they seem to fluctuate from delicate subtlety to banging you over the head with the obvious.

 

Plus, her saying she wants to be "the woman" instead of "a woman" implies that she thinks there are others that she wants to be ahead of. There haven't been, and she has no reason to think that there are. 

[blixie]

Huh not sure if this belongs here, but I guess I find it really interesting that promo's for next weeks Flash features a bad guy with a *sonic device*. Yeah. Okay, that seems at least a long set up for Laurel to get her Canary Cry, I wonder if she is in 3X18 too.

[Chaser]

The more I think about the line going from Thea to Malcolm, the more I like the idea. And it really does make sense in regards to a possible parallel of the woman in Malcolm's family, especially in an episode of Malcolm flashbacks. Willa could rock that and Thea needs a moment (she actually needs a lot of moments).

[romantic idiot]

Yeah, but I think then we'd be back in the weird incest-y vibe territory with Thea. Daughter says to father - I don't want to be a woman you love...I'm sorry, sounds strange. To a friend, yeah, maybe. To a family member - errr...

[Password]

The more I think about the line going from Thea to Malcolm, the more I like the idea. And it really does make sense in regards to a possible parallel of the woman in Malcolm's family, especially in an episode of Malcolm flashbacks. Willa could rock that and Thea needs a moment (she actually needs a lot of moments).

This.

Attention writers: Thea Queen has a storyline I've been looking forward to since the season 2 finale, but I've been bitterly disappointed. I was really feeling Thea in the final 5 episodes of season 2, got excited about her and daddy crazy. But now...I mean maybe 3B will be better, but if not it's an enormous shame that the storyline hasn't been embraced. I was encouraged by Corto Maltese...then everything else happened and now I'm just "nuh" about it.

[kismet]

Plus, her saying she wants to be "the woman" instead of "a woman" implies that she thinks there are others that she wants to be ahead of. There haven't been, and she has no reason to think that there are. 

But she did spend S1 knowing the he loved Laurel and then in S2 it was that he loved Sara... She must have sensed something was up with Shado. So I think she might have a valid point to question where she ranks in the line-up. She thought that he regretted kissing her and pursuing her up until 3x09. Even her comments in "Sara", when she told him "your sara" made it seem that she might have misread the depth of love between S&O. Personally, I never saw it as a deep romantic love, so that just threw me a little when I heard it. I saw that he cared deeply for her but more as friend/family type love. But I think she thought they had been more, which then puts her comment in context. She has said she wants more out of life, and I imagine if she is trying to figure out if she wants to have a future with Oliver those previous flames will come into play.

 

Beyond telling her he loved her, he has not been transparent about just how much he is willing to do to actually pursue a relationship with her. His given her no indication as to what he actually wants in regards to her. He was sleeping w/ Sara after the lunge, he pursued a friendship with Laurel even tho she was dating Tommy. She's gotten some painful convos, 2 kisses and a suicide mission complete with a death to grieve. Oliver was definitely making some confusing missteps that indicate that this new monogamous/celibate Oliver is trying to prove how much he loves her, or just how scared he is to pursue her & lose her. The audience has some insight into his motives & thoughts, but from her perspective she's just another person on the list of people Oliver loves. That is why I think he will accept her pushing him away, regardless of whether there is the line between them. I also think that is why she'll not find out that she was his last thought before he died until after or around 318. That thought just seems too soon for the writers to reveal if they want to stall. And I do think they mean to drag it out a little bit on the show, while keeping the audience clued in to Oliver real intentions/beliefs regarding her. Plus if S1 Oliver is back, he's gonna prioritize the mission. The mission protects her & everyone. To release that memory would only burden her and not help anything if he's chosen to be the Arrow.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, but I think then we'd be back in the weird incest-y vibe territory with Thea. Daughter says to father - I don't want to be a woman you love...I'm sorry, sounds strange. To a friend, yeah, maybe. To a family member - errr...

 

It doesn't have to be weird. Malcolm could say something along the lines of "I promised myself after (his wife) died that I'd go to any lengths to protect the women I love," or something (even though we all know that's bullshit or whatever). Then Thea could tell him that she doesn't want to be one of them.

 

Or maybe it's a callback to something Malcolm told Rebecca, and that's something she left on one of the voicemails she left him as she was dying. 

[apinknightmare]

But she did spend S1 knowing the he loved Laurel and then in S2 it was that he loved Sara... She must have sensed something was up with Shado. So I think she might have a valid point to question where she ranks in the line-up. 

 

Right, but I don't think it would be like Felicity to throw Oliver's past in his face. And her questioning her spot among the women he has at one point loved is also strange, because it implies that she thinks he's still in the act of loving them, which, yeah, he probably is, but not romantically. She has no reason at all to believe he still actively romantically loves or wants to be with any of the previous women he was with, so why would she state a need to be singled out among all of them? She could question why he pursued a relationship with McKenna and Sara and wanted to pursue one with Laurel until Tommy died, but I really don't want a "why them but not me" scenario. It'd be like she's asking him to choose, when he has chosen - he's not with any of those women anymore. 

 

Unless she's saying I don't want to be like all the others, I want to be the only one, which...it's still a weird way to phrase it and again, they're just not at a point where I think Felicity would make a demand like that. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Jessie2009]

I just watched the promo with Laurel jumping through that window. I find it ridiculous that after a couple of months of training she could do that when they just showed in the flashbacks that Oliver couldn't even though he's been training for 3 years. I'm not really looking forward to this.

[apinknightmare]

I just watched the promo with Laurel jumping through that window. I find it ridiculous that after a couple of months of training she could do that when they just showed in the flashbacks that Oliver couldn't even though he's been training for 3 years. I'm not really looking forward to this.

 

IIRC, per a spoiler that was posted a while back, she jumps out of that window and grabs onto a rope dangling from a helicopter, doesn't she? 

 

And obviously I can't judge until I see the episodes, but she actually seems pretty capable to me in every clip I've seen, even the one where it looks like she gets stabbed. It seems like her "not being very good" or whatever isn't going to be so much about her being a terrible fighter and getting hurt because she's generally awful, but getting hurt because she's not focused and doing crazy shit. 

[Chaser]

Right, but I don't think it would be like Felicity to throw Oliver's past in his face. And her questioning her spot among the women he has at one point loved is also strange, because it implies that she thinks he's still in the act of loving them, which, yeah, he probably is, but not romantically. She has no reason at all to believe he still actively romantically loves or wants to be with any of the previous women he was with, so why would she state a need to be singled out among all of them? She could question why he pursued a relationship with McKenna and Sara and wanted to pursue one with Laurel until Tommy died, but I really don't want a "why them but not me" scenario. It'd be like she's asking him to choose, when he has chosen - he's not with any of those women anymore. 

 

Unless she's saying I don't want to be like all the others, I want to be the only one, which...it's still a weird way to phrase it and again, they're just not at a point where I think Felicity would make a demand like that. 

I would also say that Laurel has been in on the secret since the end of S2 and he has not made a move or shown any romantic interest (unless they drop a bomb in the comics). I got the impression that Oliver hadn't dated since Sara (based on Diggle and Oliver's conversation in 3.01) and flirting in the Foundry did not seem to be a new thing to them. IMO Oliver has never lead Felicity on, so I don't think he would flirt with her while seeing someone else.

 

 

I just watched the promo with Laurel jumping through that window. I find it ridiculous that after a couple of months of training she could do that when they just showed in the flashbacks that Oliver couldn't even though he's been training for 3 years. I'm not really looking forward to this.

 

I wonder if they realized they were making that parallel? That's not smart. 

[kismet]

Right, but I don't think it would be like Felicity to throw Oliver's past in his face. And her questioning her spot among the women he has at one point loved is also strange, because it implies that she thinks he's still in the act of loving them, which, yeah, he probably is, but not romantically. She has no reason at all to believe he still actively romantically loves or wants to be with any of the previous women he was with, so why would she state a need to be singled out among all of them? She could question why he pursued a relationship with McKenna and Sara and wanted to pursue one with Laurel until Tommy died, but I really don't want a "why them but not me" scenario. It'd be like she's asking him to choose, when he has chosen - he's not with any of those women anymore. 

 

Unless she's saying I don't want to be like all the others, I want to be the only one, which...it's still a weird way to phrase it and again, they're just not at a point where I think Felicity would make a demand like that. 

Totally agree with your points. I think its in her headspace when she's trying to make sense of it all. But I don't see her character actually verbalizing it to Oliver, and definitely not in 312. It would be very awkward phrasing. But I do think it will impact her decision & timing to pursue anything w/ Oliver. With her abandonment issues, I think she'll be hesitant to jump into a relationship with him, without knowing that he won't just walk away/change his mind. At the end of the day, I think she does want Oliver's love... But like MG said they have to get their shit together. Felicity is not generally open with her emotions or things really close to her heart, so I can't imagine that she all the sudden wants to have this big convo about being "a woman you love", from her analytical brain it just is not the time or place to have that discussion. Esp not if she is still processing his death, which she will be regardless of the fact that he is alive & in SC. I think its just a line the EPs knew they could drop and make us all try to figure out how to make it work, which kudos to them fans have grabbed on to it. They sure do know how to throw meaty bones.

Edited January 25, 2015 by kismet

[ban1o]

 And obviously I can't judge until I see the episodes, but she actually seems pretty capable to me in every clip I've seen, even the one where it looks like she gets stabbed. It seems like her "not being very good" or whatever isn't going to be so much about her being a terrible fighter and getting hurt because she's generally awful, but getting hurt because she's not focused and doing crazy shit. 

Yeah that's the impression I'm getting. CH even said "she's like a toddler" or something lol. i think she's just going to be doing a bunch of crazy stuff that she's not ready for and gets injured because of that. Not because she sucks at fighting necessarily. But yeah I guess I'll wait to see the episodes. 

Edited January 25, 2015 by ban1o

[Jessie2009]

 

I wonder if they realized they were making that parallel? That's not smart.

There were already people annoyed that they were rushing her BC arc, this definitely isn't helping. And I get that they like to do it for laughs that Oliver back then wasn't as good as Oliver in the present. But if they are going to show her jumping through a window and breaking the glass, they don't need to show that even after 3 years of training Oliver couldn't do that, while Laurel is somehow able to do that after 3 months. I'm not expecting everyone to have as long of a journey to becoming a fighter as Oliver did, Roy's was rushed, and Thea's had five months, but Laurel's is even worse. Roy had at least a whole season of going out onto the streets and at least half a season of being trained by Oliver before they let him put on a mask, and Thea was trained for 5 months by a former member of the LOA. Laurel has had 3 months of being trained in boxing, and she's already put a mask on. All the talk in earlier seasons about how you can't just wake up and become a hero, and that's essentially what they did. I know we're suppose to think that Sara dying motivated her to take that step, but they should have shown her training a lot longer before she put the mask on. And I've seen a lot of Laurel fans say that since she's got a dad for a cop and has been trained in self defense that it's not rushed, but there's a big difference in knowing self defense, and what Oliver does.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Jessie2009

[Ariah]

To be honest, the window Oliver tried to go through was probably made of toughtened glass, while the window Laurel jumps through looks much more fragile.

Still, it's kind of riddiculous to just jump through the window OUTSIDE. It's just a stupid move, regardless of who's doing it.