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Spoiler Discussion Thread


Morrigan2575
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If its Malcolm, then I'm thinking Oliver sides with the Jr League in 3x12. In which case…..Go Felicity!

I will root her on if Oliver actually sides with Malcolm!

I am going to go with Ra's or Malcolm too.

 

I wonder if 3.14 through 3.16 (The Return/Nanda Parbat/The Offer) are all LOA related?  If Felicity is going to be the moral center of the team she's probably going to object strongly to Oliver teaming up with Malcolm or Ra's.

Good points Sunshine

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If Felicity quits the team for real in 312, it's the best possible timing for her to do that, because 313 is Canary focused, and 314 is flashbacks, so it's not like she would have that much screen time anyway. And then I wonder if Slade showing up is what puts the original band back together.

Edited by dancingnancy
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If Felicity quits the team for real in 312, it's the best possible timing for her to do that, because 313 is Canary focused, and 314 is flashbacks, so it's not like she would have that much screen time anyway. And then I wonder if Slade showing up is what puts the original band back together.

Yep they band together to save the lovely Ms Smoak probably

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Do we have anything on 3x17 yet?

I don't think so.  There was some talk of a Suicide Squad stand alone episode so I would think that would be it if it's happening.  They started setting up for the finale in 2.18 last year.

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The idea that Felicity would adamantly oppose a team up with Malcolm and/or Ra's, something that Oliver may side with, could tie into Oliver's humanity and her place in it.

She's a HUGE part of his humanity I would hope if he loves her he wouldn't team up with Malcolm or Ra's

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She's a HUGE part of his humanity I would hope if he loves her he wouldn't team up with Malcolm or Ra's

 

Of course he would, he's an idiot. 

 

Also, I bet this is how she's going to tell him how she feels about him. "I love you, you're a freaking idiot and I can't watch you be an idiot and die again because my precious heart can't take it, bye."

 

ETA: Or worse, an "I love you, please don't do this," and he does it anyway.

Edited by apinknightmare
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She's a HUGE part of his humanity I would hope if he loves her he wouldn't team up with Malcolm or Ra's

 

Also, I don't want Oliver to not make stupid decisions because he loves Felicity. I want him to not make stupid decisions because they are stupid.

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Oliver can't just stroll back into Starling City, right? If Ra's got word that Oliver was still alive, Ra's would want to kill Oliver (for real this time). Since we've seen pictures of Oliver on a rooftop with Roy in 3x13, we know that Oliver isn't hiding in Starling City.

 

I think Oliver might have to make a deal with Ra's or Malcolm or the LOA to come back into town, but I don't know what that deal would be. 

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Oliver can't just stroll back into Starling City, right? If Ra's got word that Oliver was still alive, Ra's would want to kill Oliver (for real this time). Since we've seen pictures of Oliver on a rooftop with Roy in 3x13, we know that Oliver isn't hiding in Starling City.

 

I think Oliver might have to make a deal with Ra's or Malcolm or the LOA to come back into town, but I don't know what that deal would be. 

 

Maybe Ra's goes after Maseo for saving Oliver? Or there's some ancient LoA rule that if you survive the fall, or The Demon, you get to keep your life, or some other comic book-y cliche.

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So, if it's a disagreement because he did some kind of dumb shit that Felicity is 100% done with or she asks him not to do, I'm guessing maybe (if it's not part of a bad dream, which I guess it probably isn't) the angry making thing will be Felicity telling Oliver she loves him, so please don't do whatever and he says, I love you, but whatever and she tells him she doesn't want to be a woman he loves? And then flounces his ass?

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I'd laugh if Roy was Laurel's next love interest.  Because, status.

 

It's either Ra's (because Oliver had to promise him something) or Malcolm (because Oliver agreed to do...something). OR ROY BECAUSE 'AWKWARD EYE MOVEMENTS'

Or Laurel if Oliver decides she can fight well enough to join. But I hope not.

 

Maybe he realized that using Ray to stall Olicity wouldn't exactly endear him to the people who they want to watch his spin off show (or wherever the Atom ends up.)

Thank goodness for small mercies.  It's bad enough that Oliver and Felicity are at odds without adding Ray into the mix.

 

I wonder if Felicity-in-the-hospital in 3x18 is when it ends. That's a pretty long time from 3x12.

 

If its Malcolm, then I'm thinking Oliver sides with the Jr League in 3x12. In which case…..Go Felicity!

And stay strong!

 

But if Oliver has to team up with Malcolm in the end for reasons, I hope she doesn't have to admit that she was wrong and apologize for not having faith in  his decisions.

 

wolframandguy asked:
The female character I was curious about was the one talking about how Brick is taking over the city like Al Capone in the Inside: Midnight City. She seems like a character that could do interesting things on this show and I don't even know who she is. Is she Laurel's new boss? She seems like a lawyer.

She’s the mayor of Starling City.  We introduced her in Ep. 3x05.

Uh, no you didn't.

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So, if it's a disagreement because he did some kind of dumb shit that Felicity is 100% done with or she asks him not to do, I'm guessing maybe (if it's not part of a bad dream, which I guess it probably isn't) the angry making thing will be Felicity telling Oliver she loves him, so please don't do whatever and he says, I love you, but whatever and she tells him she doesn't want to be a woman he loves? And then flounces his ass?

I'm now just writing fic:

"Felicity, you're the woman I love but I have to do this stupid thing for plotty plot reasons and ship stalling."

"Well, fuck you, I don't want to be a woman you love, I want to be your fucking partner and have my opinion be equal to yours, so I can be allowed to have a moral objection to the way you're running the mission based on that, and not on your pretty puppy eyes."

This could work for me.

Edited by dancingnancy
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He's probably seen a few different cuts of the episode and just forgot. Maybe. It does seem like Arrow has a lot of deleted scenes. I feel like they're always teasing things I want to see and then sometimes those things don't make it into the episode.

Edited by manbearpig
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I'm now just writing fic:

"Felicity, you're the woman I love but I have to do this stupid thing for plotty plot reasons and ship stalling."

"Well, fuck you, I don't want to be a woman you love, I want to be your fucking partner and have my opinion be equal to yours, so I can be allowed to have a moral objection to the way you're running the mission based on that, and not your pretty puppy eyes."

This could work for me.

 

When in doubt, fic it out.

 

It would work for me too, and I wouldn't be angry about it. Not one single bit.

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Of course he would, he's an idiot. 

 

Also, I bet this is how she's going to tell him how she feels about him. "I love you, you're a freaking idiot and I can't watch you be an idiot and die again because my precious heart can't take it, bye."

 

ETA: Or worse, an "I love you, please don't do this," and he does it anyway.

I could see this all happening MG thinks it would anger us Oliciters cause they both say I love you but Oliver does it anyway causing her to Quit. If they play it right it's gonna break our shipper hearts :( I would love Felicity still though

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Oh boy. If Malcolm is indeed the third party then it's basically going to be the rest of Team Arrow vs Felicity. I feel like regardless of how right her reasons are for not wanting to team up with Malcolm, she will be perceived to be in the wrong somehow because she'll be disagreeing with the majority.

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She may be at first, and she certainly will be by the people who thought she was weak in the last episode.

 

But it all depends on how they write (I almost wrote 'right') her.  As MG said

"The beauty of Felicity is that she’s the moral center of ‘Arrow’ Spoiler and that’s actually the role that she starts to ascend to post-episode 309 where she’s the conscience. In many ways, she starts off trying to be Oliver’s voice in his absence and then starts to develop her own way of thinking about things. She’s always been very confident but she really comes into her own after Oliver’s apparent death.”

Edited by statsgirl
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Oh boy. If Malcolm is indeed the third party then it's basically going to be the rest of Team Arrow vs Felicity. I feel like regardless of how right her reasons are for not wanting to team up with Malcolm, she will be perceived to be in the wrong somehow because she'll be disagreeing with the majority.

I don't know bout anyone else but I as a viewer would be on her side. Malcolm is complete scum and never be trusted

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Oh boy. If Malcolm is indeed the third party then it's basically going to be the rest of Team Arrow vs Felicity. I feel like regardless of how right her reasons are for not wanting to team up with Malcolm, she will be perceived to be in the wrong somehow because she'll be disagreeing with the majority.

 

That would be if Diggle actually agrees to side with Malcolm, too. IIRC, 3x12 is Roy/Laurel arguing for Malcolm to join them against Brick and Felicity arguing against with Diggle as the final deciding vote. Even though Diggle has, in the past, teamed up with people of unscrupulous character (like the Suicide Squad) for a greater good, maybe he sides with Felicity, anyway, (because Malcolm is the actual worst) and one of the things that'll anger everyone will be 'cause Diggle and Felicity both leave and we're left with Roy/Laurel/Malcolm as the 'new' Team Arrow that Oliver comes back to.

Edited by SleepDeprived
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I think it depends on why she's wrong, and whether she's going to get thrown under the bus for another character.

 

 

and one of the things that'll anger everyone will be 'cause Diggle and Felicity both leave and we're left with Roy/Laurel/Malcolm as the 'new' Team Arrow that Oliver comes back to.

 

That would be comic gold. Oliver, Laurel and Malcolm would spend all their time arguing about who is giving the orders and Roy would be all confused and "how did this happen to me?"

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Just a question, is there a problem with Felicity being "wrong". I don't get the issue with that tbh.

There's not an issue with her being wrong generally speaking, just the worry that she'll be shown as being in the wrong when she's opposing something that is genuinely mind boggling/stupid, like accepting Malcolm's help. Depends on how it plays out.

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As long as its not a romantic relationship w/ RP, primarily because I just think its OOC for both F & R. Agree with people it will most likely be a MM or LoA alliance that will cause friction between F&O. After all the TV line article explains it pretty well, the problem with a love in a hero's journey is the journey itself. I dont think it will other love interests or an illegitimate child (think that is s4) that will come between them. Those are weak & cliche and I hope the writers are better than that. Which is why I always thought the whole "Because of the life I lead" speech was targeted to highlight that he will most likely not be able to be the quality romantic partner that he wants to be if he has to be what he needs to be as the Arrow. It was his way of protecting himself from hurting the ones that he loves. Likewise I predict that the writers will somehow spin the whole "because of the life you lead" speech and have Felicity deliver it to Oliver. As much as they love each other, how can they actually pursue a life together realistically? He has basically told her and just proved to her that his journey only ends one way... I think he is afraid to have a real relationship. I hope that coming back from the dead will help him realize that its worth overcoming the fear that he has. But its a TV show so I dont see that happening. We went basically from 3.02-3.09 with them being emotionally apart, most likely will have to deal with them being apart from 12-18. Thats what makes me think its gonna be Felicity being hurt that makes them both reprioritize just in time for the season finale time. :) I always try to look at the show from a fan & writer perspective. Of course they're not gonna get Olicity back together and keep them happy. Um both of their worst fears came true, even IRL I would be hesitant to jump into a relationship with someone who just returned from the dead, with likely the same mission that got him dead in the first place. Even if I respect and believe in their mission, its gonna take a lot for me to trust that things will work out and I won't be hurt again. We havent seen it much but my prediction is that Felicity has some major trust issues when it comes to her personal life/goals. Professional trust she is willing to give using her intellect deduction skills, but thats not what is called for here. I also think this will link up nicely with Oliver having to trust either LoA, MM, Maseo or maybe even Slade Wilson, and then have that trust betrayed later on. I think the OFFER will set-up the allegiance that will be problematic. Those Arrow writers love their parallels. In the end, I cant imagine either MM or Ras/LoA disappearing from the show, so I am interested in seeing how they can build up this major showdown and yet not get rid of 2 major villians. Perhaps in the last few secs of the finale we will finally get to see a Lazarus Pit!

 

Ironically, the preview for next week just came on after the news. It is most definitely EBR's voice that says I know where to find the canary. Do u think in her grief, she will be the one that tells Det. Lance the truth and bring him to the grave? Cuz I can see that happening... that might bring some bad reactions.

Edited by kismet
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Haha yeah I totally agree that joining Malcolm is a stupid ass idea but I wouldn't put it past the writers to paint it as the right choice since they freaking lo e John Barrowman probably even more than they love Emily lol.

Edited by ban1o
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There's no problem with Felicity being wrong, but it's another story if she's in the wrong for having legit reasons to not want to team up with Malcolm..

Not wanting to work with a man who killed over 500 people including having Thea kill Sara and send Oliver to his "death" you know the man she loves is a damn good reason

Haha yeah I totally agree that joining Malcolm is a stupid= ss idea but I wouldn't put it past the writers to paint it as the right choice since they freaking lo e John Barrowman probably even more than they love Emily lol.

Acting wise I think he's the best male actor but Malcolm is scum. IMO Emily is the best Female and personally trying to throw Felicity under a bus for a character that is a sumbag is pretty stupid Edited by jay741982
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John barrowman isn't scum, Merlyn is :P. But tbh I don't think the writers realize it. The way characters have interacted with him this season is not how one would interact with a guy who killed hundreds of innocent people for practically no reason.

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John barrowman isn't scum, Merlyn is :P. But tbh I don't think the writers realize it. The way characters have interacted with him this season is not how one would interact with a guy who killed hundreds of innocent people for practically no reason.

They just acted like he was scum this past episode! Laurel reminding that he's a lying liar. Felicity putting the verbal smackdown on him and I did correct my post to say MALCOM is scum lol

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Not wanting to work with a man who killed over 500 people including having Thea kill Sara and send Oliver to his "death" you know the man she loves is a damn good reason

 

All interesting ideas. I wonder if MG thinks people will be mad at him because the new Olicity stall is Felicity not being okay working with Malcolm. Once again, I don't know if he understands why people like Felicity. That would be entirely in character for her. Or maybe he doesn't understand that Felicity fans aren't only fans of Olicity. Felicity Smoak might just be my favorite character ever. (It might just be a three way tie between Veronica Mars and Chloe Sullvan.) If she rejects Oliver for a legitimate reason, more power to her. 

 

It's when the writers come up with something contrived to keep a couple apart that bothers me. Which is what the baby mama/kid drama will be when that pops up - most likely 2.5 seconds after Oliver and Felicity finally become an official couple.

 

Note: I'm sure there's a segment of fandom that will skewer MG because that's why the internet was made.

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All interesting ideas. I wonder if MG thinks people will be mad at him because the new Olicity stall is Felicity not being okay working with Malcolm. Once again, I don't know if he understands why people like Felicity. That would be entirely in character for her. Or maybe he doesn't understand that Felicity fans aren't only fans of Olicity. Felicity Smoak might just be my favorite character ever. (It might just be a three way tie between Veronica Mars and Chloe Sullvan.) If she rejects Oliver for a legitimate reason, more power to her. 

 

It's when the writers come up with something contrived to keep a couple apart that bothers me. Which is what the baby mama/kid drama will be when that pops up - most likely 2.5 seconds after Oliver and Felicity finally become an official couple.

 

Note: I'm sure there's a segment of fandom that will skewer MG because that's why the internet was made.

All he should do is go over all the boards and he would see people who love her for more than just Olicity. And personally I don't think Felicity would let Baby mama drama get in her and Oliver's way but who knows with these writers

Calliope Felicity is one of my favorite characters of all time as well. She's sexy funny Fiercely loyal and when she loves she loves hard(well she don't love Diggle and Roy as much as Oliver and her Mom but you get the picture). She's also Badass without having to get Physical

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If it does end up being Felicity vs. Oliver and the rest of the team over partnering with Merlyn then I really hope she does storm out. The thing that would be the cherry on top would be if one day, down the road when Merlyn inevitably screws the team over (because, you know...HE'S MERLYN), she finally gets her "Suck it, bitches! I was right" moment. I know, I know...that's never gonna happen but just let me dream.

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Not wanting to work with a man who killed over 500 people including having Thea kill Sara and send Oliver to his "death" you know the man she loves is a damn good reason

On top of that, everytime they don't kill him for whatever reason, he has some hidden agenda that usually screws them over. Oliver decided not to kill him because in his twisted way, he loves Thea, and then it turned out that he was brainwashing Thea to kill Sara, so Oliver would take the blame and fight Ra Al Ghul, which got him killed. Given all that, I can understand why Felicity wouldn't want to team up with him, even if he's offering to take care of Brick. 

 

Based on that one response on MG's tumblr about how a third party might come between Olicity and it not being Ray, makes me definitely think now that the person is Malcolm. Ray was really the only person romantically that could have come between them, so I don't think it could be anyone else but Malcolm. I'm guessing Felicity gets pissed because they all want to team up with him even after everything he's done to them, so she leaves. On the plus side, if that happens, at least her being pissed at him after he comes back makes sense. I could have seen her pulling away after he came back if his death scared her and I could see her being upset at him if he was gone for months and didn't tell her he was alive, but considering that there isn't a time jump, it wouldn't really make sense for her to be mad at him with him coming back at the end of 312. 

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I can see her emotions being a bit all over the place when he returns. I mean, she just lost him because of Malcolm and the first thing he wants to do when he gets back is to team up with Malcolm again? Yeah I can see her being a bit mad at him (and at the team) because of that. Malcolm said it himself, Oliver was dead because of him. Why would they a) ever want to work with him again and b) why would Oliver ever want to work with him again?? 

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If they make Oliver decide to hang out with Merlyn because reasons, I'd be more pissed off at that than Olicity stalling. I had enough of Oliver's character being broken for plot reasons in the second half of season 2 that I don't want to see that happen again.

The way he reacted to Merlyn in Verdant (crazy eyes choke) makes me think that tie, the protection he offered Merlz is over. SURELY DAMMIT.

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The way that MG phrased a third party coming between them with "I'm gonna go with yes." is interesting.  That is not a very strong yes.  It's like he had to think about it and it almost could have gone either yes or no.

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I'm going with Felicity finds out about Baby Mama and child  whilst she is in Central City. She will think Oliver is a deadbeat dad without knowing the whole story so she tells Oliver to fuck off.  Because for Felicity having been left by her father it will be too much.


John barrowman isn't scum, Merlyn is :P. But tbh I don't think the writers realize it. The way characters have interacted with him this season is not how one would interact with a guy who killed hundreds of innocent people for practically no reason.

 

he still has Thea in his realm to use as leverage.

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I'm going with Felicity finds out about Baby Mama and child  whilst she is in Central City. She will think Oliver is a deadbeat dad without knowing the whole story so she tells Oliver to fuck off.  Because for Felicity having been left by her father it will be too much.

 

Pretty sure I'd have to stop watching if something like that ever happened because Felicity jumping to conclusions without knowing the whole story is so unlike her. Especially when there's a paper trail to follow that would lead her in a different direction entirely. How would she find out the kid is his? No way is the Queen name anywhere near him. Not on his BC, not his middle name. Moira was smart - that would've had to have been a condition. If she comes across some kind of document about it (I have no idea what that could be), then she'd have to go digging deeper and surely she'd find out this woman had at least one deposit from the Bank of Moira Queen, and Felicity already knows first hand that Moira was a shady bitch, so surely she'd question Oliver about it before she straight-up blamed him.

 

The only way she gets angry at him after she randomly finds this out on her own is if it comes out that he did know about the kid and had willingly not been a part of his life. But there are two problems with this: 1. Felicity knows him well enough to know he's in no way, shape or form in the position to be a father, so while she might push him to have contact with the kid because she herself was left, the circumstances as she knows them are completely different, especially since if I'm remembering the timeline correctly, he would've left on the gambit before the kid was even born - so he would've never even known Oliver, and Oliver wouldn't have had the chance to know him (assuming they stick to canon and Connor is a boy, if it even is Connor). 2. I always thought/hoped that Oliver knew about the kid so finding out about him wouldn't be some life-altering surprise, but after The Flash, I really get the sense that he doesn't know that child exists. If he did, in light of that scene, he looks like a complete shitbag for not even asking how the kid's doing. I know they could retcon that into him calling and asking about him after he and Felicity left Jitters or something to that effect, but...I don't know. He didn't even look back after he walked out of the door. 

 

Either way, I don't think she'd have an immediate, terrible reaction to it without actually getting to the bottom of it first. Then she could get angry about it, but even then I don't think it would be a lasting anger after she looked at the circumstances surrounding the kid's birth and Oliver's state of mind after he came back. And didn't the EPs say that Oliver's kid wouldn't be addressed this season anyway? 

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I'm going with Felicity finds out about Baby Mama and child whilst she is in Central City. She will think Oliver is a deadbeat dad without knowing the whole story so she tells Oliver to fuck off. Because for Felicity having been left by her father it will be too much.

But she's only going to Central City in 318, and Guggenheim is teasing fandom will be upset in 312. Unless I've missed something?

Plus, even if Felicity is pissed off at Oliver one day because of the kid, why would she stay pissed after he tells her he didn't even know he had the kid? He believes Baby Mama miscarried.

Edit: or what @apinknightmare said. :)

Edited by dancingnancy
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Maybe she finds out before she goes to Central City.  Maybe  Baby Mama comes crawling out of the woodwork because someone contacts her and tells her Oliver is dead...someone like Malcolm. 

 

As for why Felicity might react that way,  even as she is smart etc, being abandoned as a child by a parent does mess one up more often than not.  Thinking that the love of her life, would have abandoned his child is not out of the realm of possibility. 

 

And this show does stupid things all the time, like Laurel as BC in 3.1 seconds.  So I really don't put anything past them to this point.

Edited by catrox14
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(edited)

I'm curious but how do these theories of Felicity bouncing add up with the spoilers we have?

DR said at his con that he just filmed a Foundry scene with SA/CH/EBR (either 313/314)

We have the "pie picture" from EBR, where she, CH/DR were all together eating presumably between takes. I think it was during 313.

We have the Canadagraphs photos of Nyssa, Diggle, Arrow and Malcolm at the heloport in 315, with Arrow point his weapon at Malcolm

We have DR's pics (yesterday) of EBR/CH on Foundry set and later EBR posted a pic of the 3 guys holding SA t-shirts, during Foundry Fraturday.

We also have Felicity imparting words of wisdom to Laurel in 313.

It seems to me that Felicity is still a part of TA in 313-316. No idea about Malcolm, the 3rd party or anything else but I don't think Felicity is bouncing. If she does it won't last beyond a full episode.

Wow, totally lost track of episodes they're half way through 316.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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If it does end up being Felicity vs. Oliver and the rest of the team over partnering with Merlyn then I really hope she does storm out. The thing that would be the cherry on top would be if one day, down the road when Merlyn inevitably screws the team over (because, you know...HE'S MERLYN), she finally gets her "Suck it, bitches! I was right" moment. I know, I know...that's never gonna happen but just let me dream.

I love this post lol you said what I was thinking. If Felicity is the only one who doesn't want malcolm's Help and even Oliver does I will cheer her on telling them to Fuck off lol

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I don't think she gets upset and leaves the team, I think she might get upset with something she deems reckless decisionmaking on Oliver's part (because he's teaming with Malcolm or considering something dangerous with Ra's). I don't think she'd quit the team, because she'd want to make sure Oliver and team don't get themselves killed, but I do think she'd try to distance herself from him romantically in order to guard her heart now that she knows what it feels like to lose him.

Edited by apinknightmare
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I don't think she gets upset and leaves the team, I think she might get upset with something she deems reckless decisionmaking on Oliver's part (because he's teaming with Malcolm or considering something dangerous with Ra's). I don't think she'd quit the team, because she'd want to make sure Oliver and team don't get themselves killed, but I do think she'd try to distance herself from him romantically in order to guard her heart now that she knows what it feels like to lose him.

ok that makes sense. Maybe I mis read but it seemed like a lot of the speculation centered around Felicity leaving TA for a bit.
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