apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) EPIC: Wow, that's huge. Whatever, I'm leaving it. Edited January 23, 2015 by apinknightmare 19 Link to comment
HighHopes January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 What could Laurel's biggest fear be that would involve Sara fighting her? That she wouldn't be good enough? Is Sara going to show up being all nasty like, "You'll never be as good as I am, you'll never fight like me, etc."? Because a lot of the audience will agree with her and what would be the point of that? Just to acknowledge in-show that Sara's better like, audience we hear you? Nothing good comes from showing Laurel in a fight with her (unless she unbuckles for a bit afterward). That is exactly how it will end, with Sara telling Laurel she could never be as good as her. So Laurel realizes "Oh no. I can't become my sister. I have to be someone else, but that someone else will be better than her. That'll show her". The only thing this episode will prove is that a) Sara was the better fighter and b) Katie Cassidy will definitely be using a stunt double. 1 Link to comment
dtissagirl January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 How do you lose an hallucinated fight? Do you bang your head on a wall until you bleed or something? Is this their homage to Fight Club? 1 Link to comment
Guest January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 What could Laurel's biggest fear be that would involve Sara fighting her? That she wouldn't be good enough? Is Sara going to show up being all nasty like, "You'll never be as good as I am, you'll never fight like me, etc."? Because a lot of the audience will agree with her and what would be the point of that? Just to acknowledge in-show that Sara's better like, audience we hear you? Nothing good comes from showing Laurel in a fight with her (unless she unbuckles for a bit afterward). I honestly don't know. It's got to be that whole 'Am I me or am I my sister?' thing that the EP's mentioned before the season started but I can't make the leap from that to fear. It must be that she doesn't measure up, or maybe that she's failed her in some way? Maybe 'Sara' will accuse her of not avenging her death or something? I guess I'd believe that, especially if Laurel is distracted by all the Brick stuff for the next couple of episodes, meaning Sara's death has taken a back seat. Maybe it's her vertigo fight with Sara which refocuses her attention on finding Sara's killer, that is if she hasn't been told it's Thea by then. But yeah, if Laurel wins I will call bullshit. She's just not good enough. Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 How do you lose an hallucinated fight? Do you bang your head on a wall until you bleed or something? Is this their homage to Fight Club? Oliver lost by choking himself, so...who knows. Who's she really going to be fighting though, Vertigo or someone else? Link to comment
wonderwall January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I feel like that episode will be filled with these moments: 19 Link to comment
Chaser January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 How about the episode ends with us finding out Laurel was never dosed and she really just had a mental break? The episode could end with Laurel strapped to a hospital bed. Head twitching. Blank Stare. "No I'm Sara. Sara is Me." 7 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I honestly don't know. It's got to be that whole 'Am I me or am I my sister?' thing that the EP's mentioned before the season started but I can't make the leap from that to fear. It must be that she doesn't measure up, or maybe that she's failed her in some way? Maybe 'Sara' will accuse her of not avenging her death or something? I guess I'd believe that, especially if Laurel is distracted by all the Brick stuff for the next couple of episodes, meaning Sara's death has taken a back seat. Maybe it's her vertigo fight with Sara which refocuses her attention on finding Sara's killer, that is if she hasn't been told it's Thea by then. But yeah, if Laurel wins I will call bullshit. She's just not good enough. Laurel's been distracted by everything this season since she never actually tried to find Sara's killer. It's all that boxing. Link to comment
quarks January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 On the bright side, everyone, that DJ is back! ....oh, wait. 13 Link to comment
dtissagirl January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I really wish this show had gone full wacky with the magical jacket transferring abilities to the next user. That would've been less ridic than this. 6 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 OMG, is Lance gonna break up this fight like he did Oliver v. Arrow and actually have a heart attack this time? 3 Link to comment
Guest January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Laurel's been distracted by everything this season since she never actually tried to find Sara's killer. It's all that boxing. Lol too true. She left that up to Team Arrow and then had the audacity to say she wasn't on Oliver's team. I guess in her mind, boxing is her way of avenging Sara's killer. I don't know. The whole thing is confusing tbh. Link to comment
Genki January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 3.14 seems sooooooooo far away.... Caity should have made the same call that Susanna did, this is not a great return for Sara. Also everyone call it when her appearance was teased as not a flashback. On the bright side, everyone, that DJ is back! ....oh, wait. Maybe the DJ is punishment for not liking other characters. You think Ray is stalky and inappropriate.... 1 Link to comment
BkWurm1 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 But yeah, if Laurel wins I will call bullshit. She's just not good enough. Oh, you know she will win. She'll start by getting her ass handed to her and then she'll reach deep down inside and find the strength and ... insert gag reflex. In other news Oliver is going to have nightmares about Felicity but I'm kind of certain that reality will turn out worse. For me if not him. 16 Link to comment
strikera0 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Lol, it was so obvious that the writers would come up with a plot contrivance to stage a Canary vs. Black Canary fight. I called it (and the hallucination) right from the moment I heard that Vertigo would be back. 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Oh, you know she will win. She'll start by getting her ass handed to her and then she'll reach deep down inside and find the strength and ... insert gag reflex. In other news Oliver is going to have nightmares about Felicity but I'm kind of certain that reality will turn out worse. For me if not him. I wonder if he has to make some kind of a deal or do something that he doesn't want to in order to get home? That maybe agreeing to do it weighs on him and he thinks it's something that would make Felicity not love him anymore? I can't imagine what other kind of nightmares he'd have about her, apart from her getting hurt or something. 1 Link to comment
Chaser January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Why is the first full episode Oliver is back all about Laurel and Sara? Is it so he can witness the 'warrior' in action? 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Why is the first full episode Oliver is back all about Laurel and Sara? Is it so he can witness the 'warrior' in action? From the synopsis, seems like he doesn't really want to witness the warrior in action. He wants the warrior to stop warrioring, haha. Link to comment
SleepDeprived January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 On the bright side, everyone, that DJ is back! ....oh, wait. Oh, we'll be treated to the delight that is that comb-deprived man-meat in need of a shower as early as next week's episode, I believe. Can't wait! Well, with that description, I'm about 97% sure that I won't be watching 3x14. Even if Oliver is back and possible tension within Team Arrow could lead to juicy moments with Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity. Thank goodness for YT and Tumblr. Also, I don't care if the Sara that's returning is only a hallucination in Laurel's mind. Sara better be winning that fight! 4 Link to comment
NoWayOut January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Woo! An epic fight between Sara and Laurel! That's ought to stop the comparisons! 11 Link to comment
statsgirl January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) It's taken me a while to type a reply.... I was laughing too hard. Not the intention, I assume. It's funny how worried we were about 3x10 and it turned out to be a great episode for Felicity. And now this for Laurel. That is exactly how it will end, with Sara telling Laurel she could never be as good as her. So Laurel realizes "Oh no. I can't become my sister. I have to be someone else, but that someone else will be better than her. That'll show her". Laurel's worst fear turns into her greatest hope -- she finally beats up her sister for good. Someone could write a thesis on that relationship. Woo! An epic fight between Sara and Laurel! That's ought to stop the comparisons! Yep. What were they thinking? Edited January 23, 2015 by statsgirl 4 Link to comment
AyChihuahua January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Sooooooo....the 100 is really good this season. 2 Link to comment
foreverevolving January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Wow. My first thought was that it sounded like a fan-written summary. :/ please let's amend this to a "badly written fan summary".. cause.. you know, not fair to include an entire population. now i'll be off to the side to continue side-eye that summary. On the bright side, everyone, that DJ is back! ....oh, wait. If the choice is between watching DJ Douchpants and Laurel.. I'm gonna chose DJ DP every single time. Just sayin` 1 Link to comment
statsgirl January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I'm wondering at the logic of having an episode that is a major Felicity episode and where EBR gets such good reviews followed by three episodes in which Laurel/KC takes center stage. Unless KC does really well, the contrast is going to be, well, contrasting. Sometimes I really wonder if they're not setting up Laurel to fail. 4 Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) Are we sure that Oliver is not still trapped in a nightmare for most of episode 13? I know that KC's stunt double will win the fight against CL, but sorry, I won't buy it. Will this be the jacket scene all over again with KC barely able to contain her glee?? I am so looking forward to the reviews for episodes 11 and 13. Laurel, Roy, and Vinnie Jones? This "acting" is going to be epic. And yes, I have been using the word epic a lot lately in many of my random posts in honor of MG. Edited January 23, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit 1 Link to comment
kismet January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Perhaps they should just name the spin-off EPIC... After all, its gonna be EPIC haven't you heard.... 1 Link to comment
calliope1975 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I think I'm actually excited for this Canary fight. It's going to be horrible. By all rights, Hallucination!Sara should kick Laurel's ass, but there's no way TPTB are just going to leave it at that. At least, I don't think they'll have her hanging up her fingerless gloves at the end of the season. So Hallucination!Sara is going to have to give Laurel her blessing in some way. The same way Hallucination!Tommy told Oliver he was a hero. And I don't see that going over well at all. Because no, Sara would never ever ever want her sister in this life, and as written, she would have never passed the black leather jacket if she thought Laurel was going to head out onto the streets. It could have worked, if Sara had lived and the writers had strengthened their relationship then given them some reason for Sara to train Laurel. But no, TPTB chose a different path. I think the fight will be good. Caity and the stuntwomen will do a good job, but man, I can't wait to see this play out. That's something I NEVER thought I'd say about anything related to Laurel. 1 Link to comment
Belinea January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) But who is she going to fight? She can not really compare herself with her sister one way or the other. If she fights a hallucination that is not there, she beats herself up. No one wins. If she sees Sara instead of another person, it depends on how good that person can fight. But once she is drug free, the comparison should again be null and void. The only thing to come out of this quite frankly is to show that Laurel's biggest fear in life is Sara which seems pretty awful since her sister is dead and before that had to be in the LoA. Laurel's life might be dark but I still think Sara wins in the 'My life is horrible' category. Laurel should be glad she is not Sara and does not have to be. Maybe after the drug, Laurel, the recovering addict, will spend a few days (weeks) in rehab to get back on track. But they probably forgot that she had a drug problem last season. (As they should, what a waste of storyline) Edited January 23, 2015 by Belinea 4 Link to comment
Starfish35 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I think we are somehow supposed to believe that Laurel never felt like she could measure up to Sara. I'm not sure that quite fits what we've seen, but I think it probably could be twisted that way. So Sara is really a manifestation of Laurel's self doubt and fear, and somehow she will learn that she has it within her to be as much of a hero as Sara was. Or something like that. *sigh* :( 2 Link to comment
Danny Franks January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 It just doesn't sound like the dynamic I recognised on the show, for Laurel to feel like she was in her sister's shadow in any way at all. Sara was the younger, wilder sister who Laurel seemed to feel superior to, and annoyed by, in those flashbacks. And even in the present day scenes they shared in season 2, I never got the sense that she suddenly respected Sara and looked up to her. To have her now reduced to a strawman 'inferiority complex' that Laurel has to overcome to be the Black Canary that she was (never, let's be real) meant to be, just sounds like the final insult to the character. If I was Caity Lotz, I'd have told them to go fuck themselves over asking her to return. As it sounds like Susannah Thompson did. 13 Link to comment
Starfish35 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 No, I agree, but I suspect that's what they'll try to sell it as. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 23, 2015 Author Share January 23, 2015 Hah. Man these EPs are really predictable. It's a total joke even when I'd dismiss something as being too stupid (brainwashed/amnesia killer Thea). We all knew this wss going to happen, we all called it months ago, and sadly we all know how it's going to end. It's just mock worthy at this point. 4 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 No, I agree, but I suspect that's what they'll try to sell it as. Why wouldn't they just try to sell it as her not thinking she'll ever be as good a fighter/vigilante as Sara? It's a legit fear, because she won't, and it fits with her "dilemma" for this season. Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 23, 2015 Author Share January 23, 2015 BTW - If it hasn't already been called, I'm calling it now. 314 is where Laurel will declare herself the Black Canary, either post hallucination win or Hallucination Sara will Mock her with the title and Laurel will decide to "own" it by using it going forward. Link to comment
Guest January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Ugh, this is no better reading this again this morning. Also, I'm kinda annoyed that Oliver's return to the team is gonna be overshadowed by all this BC stuff. He freaking died FFS and it's like 'yeah, whatevs, chill bro, we've got BC now.' NO. Obviously this is me speculating because I have no idea how it's going to play out but I don't know. His whole death feels so anticlimactic now which is sad because when he 'died' and had that flashback to all the people he loved the most, it was really moving and emotional and now it's like, 'well that's over with, never mind!' IT'S HIS SHOW. HIS STORY. Grrrrr. Link to comment
looptab January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Honestly, if I were Oliver and I'd come back to find Laurel strolling around the Foundry, I'd be pissed too. BTW, in the days between the dismantling and the reassembling of the team, will Laurel use it as her base of operations, like she owns the place? Will she try doing the salmon ladder? The end is near. :/ 2 Link to comment
Sunshine January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I think Sara will win the fight similarly to how easy it was for Ra's to defeat Oliver. This will lead to Laurel realizing she's not the fighter Sara was and probably looking to Nyssa for training. I think Nyssa probably has some ill will towards daddy because she has reacted badly to his comments regarding Sara. Link to comment
SonofaBiscuit January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 But who is she going to fight? She can not really compare herself with her sister one way or the other. If she fights a hallucination that is not there, she beats herself up. No one wins. Oh, we win. We definitely win. 2 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 But who is she going to fight? She can not really compare herself with her sister one way or the other. If she fights a hallucination that is not there, she beats herself up. No one wins. If she sees Sara instead of another person, it depends on how good that person can fight. But once she is drug free, the comparison should again be null and void. I assume she'll fight Count Vertigo like Oliver did, and get her ass kicked like Oliver did. And I think the result of confronting her fear (which since she fights Sara as Canary instead of Sara as Sara is probably that she won't be as good a fighter or vigilante as Sara, which DING DING DING correct) will be for her to give up being BC (highly, highly unlikely) or double-down on her training with Nyssa or someone else who does more than box. 1 Link to comment
Starfish35 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Why wouldn't they just try to sell it as her not thinking she'll ever be as good a fighter/vigilante as Sara? It's a legit fear, because she won't, and it fits with her "dilemma" for this season. You're right - that works better that way. I was probably way overthinking it last night. (Sleep is good - lol.) 1 Link to comment
Sunshine January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I wonder if Katana is going to train Oliver in sword fighting. I vaguely remember an interview SA did where he said we have never seen Oliver learn something in present day. AK did say Tatsu would be Katana. I also wonder if Maseo will die by the end of the season. This would honor comic canon although I don't think his soul is going to be in Katana's sword. Maseo could actually die relatively soon assuming Ra's finds out that he rescued Oliver. Link to comment
foreverevolving January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 I wonder if Katana is going to train Oliver in sword fighting. I vaguely remember an interview SA did where he said we have never seen Oliver learn something in present day. AK did say Tatsu would be Katana. I also wonder if Maseo will die by the end of the season. This would honor comic canon although I don't think his soul is going to be in Katana's sword. Maseo could actually die relatively soon assuming Ra's finds out that he rescued Oliver. But Oliver fought Ra's using swords, meaning he already knows how, he may not be great at it, but he knows how to. Link to comment
Sakura12 January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) I think Caity's 3 episode contract was worked out before Sara's death. In the future though I hope she turns them down or as mentioned before she gets a job playing Marvel hero and can't come back again. Of course Sara will lose the fight, this is in Laurel's mind and she's always thought she was far superior to Sara in every way. Then the Sara in Laurel's head will confirm that and Laurel can add "Black" to her name because she's so dark now. I do feel bad for CL that's a stupid episode to come back for. I hope she was paid well and had fun fighting the stuntwoman. I wonder if Bam Bam misses her, he was always talking about how great a stunt fighter she is. Knowing that CL knew about Sara's death, it explains why she and Katrina were hanging out with Bam Bam and the Stunt Team after the finale. Edited January 23, 2015 by Sakura12 5 Link to comment
Sunshine January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 But Oliver fought Ra's using swords, meaning he already knows how, he may not be great at it, but he knows how to. Maybe I should have said continue to train him or teach him something different. I know he's been great with the sticks but he was no match for Ra's. Link to comment
KirkB January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 Laurel COULD lose the fight if her greatest fear is...ah, screw it. Of course she's going to win. I was going to try and rationalize it but there's no point is there? Everyone and everything is being twisted and broken to fit around Laurel and this is no exception. Oliver's going to be pissed when he gets back that she's dressing up but he'll be fine with it in the end, if not that very episode. The one thing I don't think anyone has to worry about is Oliver and Laurel getting back together on a full time basis, though I'll be surprised if they don't hook up at least once more, if only so they can realize the spark just isn't there anymore. 1 Link to comment
Chaser January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 The whole thing is telegraphed. Of course Oliver is going to accept it. Of course Oliver is going to support her. And on one hand, he shouldn't tell her what to do. And on the other, the whole is so stupid I want her too stop. If they ever hook up Oliver and Laurel again I'm out. Done. Do I think they could do it? Sure. But I don't think they will. I read a review on Tumblr were they mentioned Felicity playing the Oliver role in this episode. She was doing with Diggle what Oliver did. Pulling him from the field. That thought did not occur to me, but I could see it. Esp. with the EPs saying Felicity starts as the voice of Oliver before going into her own path. 6 Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) Am I for real the only one who thinks she'll lose ala Oliver in The Calm? That set off his whole "Oliver Queen vs. Arrow" dilemma. This is gonna set off her "Am I me or am I my sister" dilemma. We all know the answer, of course, but I'm of the firm belief Hallucination!Sara's kicking that ass. And then Laurel will realize she needs more training and she'll go off to Nyssa or some similar kind of mess. Edited January 23, 2015 by apinknightmare 2 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 January 23, 2015 Author Share January 23, 2015 Am I for real the only one who thinks she'll lose ala Oliver in The Calm? That set off his whole "Oliver Queen vs. Arrow" dilemma. This is gonna set off her "Am I me or am I my sister" dilemma. We all know the answer, of course, but I'm of the firm belief Hallucination!Sara's kicking that ass. And then Laurel will realize she needs more training and she'll go off to Nyssa or some similar kind of mess. But he didn't lose. Yes, he lost the first time but the second time on the roof top, Oliver/Arrow triumphed over Veritgo. I have no doubt they'll do the same thing here. Laurel will lose at first and then find her inner courage and win against "Sara" Link to comment
apinknightmare January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) But he didn't lose. Yes, he lost the first time but the second time on the roof top, Oliver/Arrow triumphed over Veritgo. I have no doubt they'll do the same thing here. Laurel will lose at first and then find her inner courage and win against "Sara"Ah, good point. I forgot they went at it again. Ugh.ETA: At least the second time Oliver fought Vertigo. So if something similar happens we hopefully won't have to watch Hallucination!Sara lose to her lesser. Edited January 23, 2015 by apinknightmare Link to comment
Chaser January 23, 2015 Share January 23, 2015 (edited) Am I for real the only one who thinks she'll lose ala Oliver in The Calm? That set off his whole "Oliver Queen vs. Arrow" dilemma. This is gonna set off her "Am I me or am I my sister" dilemma. We all know the answer, of course, but I'm of the firm belief Hallucination!Sara's kicking that ass. And then Laurel will realize she needs more training and she'll go off to Nyssa or some similar kind of mess. Actually I think there is a good chance she will lose. I think that may be what that big Laurel and Felicity scene is going to be about. Felicity may patch Laurel up and her words of wisdom will be some along the lines of "Don't rush this. It takes time. I've watch Oliver and Sara and Roy and Diggle train. Prepare yourself better." Her 'triumph' is realizing she has to stop being her sister and try to better herself instead of playing make believe. I wish they would stop using character beats they have already used on others. Edited January 23, 2015 by 10Eleven12 1 Link to comment
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