Spoiler Discussion Thread

[jay741982]

I think Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver if/when he comes back in 3x12 is really just another way (roadblock) to keep O/F apart until May sweeps. I just hope it makes sense/is in character.

I really hope them getting together happens with like 4 eps left I think I speak with other Olicity shippers who would hate to see them hook up in season finale knowing we will miss 5 months of relationship development unless this season ends with a cliffhanger like Felicity is kidnapped or something

[BkWurm1]

If Oliver had a run off to Ra's behind her back breaking a promise or something, then she would be justified in being mad, but except for the injustice of losing him (kind of a mad at the universe thing) I can't imagine her having a reason to be mad at Oliver...unless he figured out he would probably lose and set up someone to save his ass and didn't share a contingency plan.  Possible??

[Chaser]

Based off of MG's comment about Felicity 'Standing Strong' and her reaction being 'Epic', I don't think we are going to see Felicity breakdown. I think we are going to get hints that she is emotional, but I think we are going to watch her hold it in. Then comes Murdering Malcolm with his offer and the Team agreeing to his help (cause they probably will) and then Oliver comes back from death….I can see everything coming to head and she loses it. 

 

I just need to see the build up and I need whatever to set her off (whether it be Oliver or Malcolm or everything) to make sense. I don't want her to be angry at Oliver just because he died on her. He choose to go to that fight, but he choose for Family. 

[statsgirl]

It's hard to see why Felicity would be "mad as hell" at Oliver when he returns .... unless he agrees with Laurel and Roy to team up with Malcolm.  I was mad as hell at Oliver myself in the Magician when he agree to protect Malcolm and I didn't even know about Thea killing Sara then.

 

Thinking on John Barrowman's remarks that Malcolm loves Oliver more than he loved Tommy, it's a strange kind of love that sets you up to be killed in his place.  Right now, I can't imagine a dynamic between Oliver and Malcolm that I would buy other than "I'm doing to make sure you never hurt anyone else again".

[jay741982]

If Oliver had a run off to Ra's behind her back breaking a promise or something, then she would be justified in being mad, but except for the injustice of losing him (kind of a mad at the universe thing) I can't imagine her having a reason to be mad at Oliver...unless he figured out he would probably lose and set up someone to save his ass and didn't share a contingency plan.  Possible??

Possible but it could be cause she Loves him and she felt he abandoned her. A fan fic I read earlier today actually had some good reasons why she would be furious with him. That one story called The Ring

[BkWurm1]

Possible but it could be cause she Loves him and she felt he abandoned her. A fan fic I read earlier today actually had some good reasons why she would be furious with him. That one story called The Ring

See, I can see it being a good reason for her to run scared, but be mad at him?  I suppose he could come back and still pull his "Because of the life I lead" crap.  Boy oh boy would I be mad as hell as well. 

[Chaser]

I get her not wanting to be in a relationship with him because he 'died.' I have no problem with that. 

 

I'm just worried she is going to be mad at him because they are writing her OOC (her feeling angry at him because he 'left her', totally ignoring someone forced his hand and it was for his sister and the city) or him (siding with Malcolm/Roy/Laurel/Possibly Diggle because of all the innocent lives). 

[jay741982]

See, I can see it being a good reason for her to run scared, but be mad at him?  I suppose he could come back and still pull his "Because of the life I lead" crap.  Boy oh boy would I be mad as hell as well.

I would too! I would be mad at the writers too lol I'd want Felicity to punch him if he pulls that crap. I hope he doesnt. I don't understand why these writers just can't put them together. The will they won't they is what can bring the show down. Put them together and Backburn the relationship

I get her not wanting to be in a relationship with him because he 'died.' I have no problem with that. 

 

I'm just worried she is going to be mad at him because they are writing her OOC (her feeling angry at him because he 'left her', totally ignoring someone forced his hand and it was for his sister and the city) or him (siding with Malcolm/Roy/Laurel/Possibly Diggle because of all the innocent lives).

I fear it would be him Being OOC. I hope it's neither actually

[statsgirl]

This is the problem we had with Laurel when Sara returned -- she was mad and she threw her glass at the door.  She did have reason to be mad but she should have been crazy happy first.

 

And if Felicity is thinking that Oliver is dead, when he first gets back, she does need to be really happy at first before all the abandonment issues comes up, and acknowledge that he felt he had no choice. And really, I think BkWurm1's story, that she's mad at him because of all the time he wasted by pushing her away, makes the most sense. But that doesn't translate into a "mad as hell" reaction.

 

I like jbuffyangel's blog but I disagree with the intensity of her reading of their relationship.  The Ring is here.

[olicityfan25]

That Laurel line is so vomit inducing. 

[NumberCruncher]

What if Oliver and Malcolm essentially found a way to "fake" Oliver's death in order to pull one over on Ra's--i.e. it turns out he was working with Malcolm all along to save Thea. The ruse would require Malcolm to convince everyone back in Starling that Oliver is dead. I can see a scenario where Felicity finds out that not only is Oliver working with Merlyn, but also that he lied and subjected her to grief over "losing" him. She then becomes "mad as hell" at Oliver, utters the "I don't want to be a woman you love" line and they spend the rest of the season alienated from each other.

[DrSpaceman10]

What if Oliver and Malcolm essentially found a way to "fake" Oliver's death in order to pull one over on Ra's--i.e. it turns out he was working with Malcolm all along to save Thea. The ruse would require Malcolm to convince everyone back in Starling that Oliver is dead. I can see a scenario where Felicity finds out that not only is Oliver working with Merlyn, but also that he lied and subjected her to grief over "losing" him. She then becomes "mad as hell" at Oliver, utters the "I don't want to be a woman you love" line and they spend the rest of the season alienated from each other.

 

If this is true (and I'm not sure if the writers are smart/creative enough to have Oliver/Malcolm secretly working together) then I would completely understand Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by drspaceman10

[jay741982]

What if Oliver and Malcolm essentially found a way to "fake" Oliver's death in order to pull one over on Ra's--i.e. it turns out he was working with Malcolm all along to save Thea. The ruse would require Malcolm to convince everyone back in Starling that Oliver is dead. I can see a scenario where Felicity finds out that not only is Oliver working with Merlyn, but also that he lied and subjected her to grief over "losing" him. She then becomes "mad as hell" at Oliver, utters the "I don't want to be a woman you love" line and they spend the rest of the season alienated from each other.

Oh god I hope not about them being alienated from each other this season is depressing enough

[BkWurm1]

The only problem is Oliver really didn't have control over faking his death when Ra's ran him through with his sword.  I won't put it past Oliver to have set up a contingency plan if he was hurt and yeah, I think Felicity would be mad if he kept that from her and even madder if he conspired with Malcolm to fake his death ...but to what end?   Why would they need to hide the truth from the rest of Team Arrow?   

 

Felicity and team are going to do their best to keep the Arrow alive so it's not like they are going to spread it around.  Even with just Oliver Queen - there is going to be no body.  After the first time of declaring him dead, I have to think there will be a hesitancy to do it a second time without a body.  Who would bother doing so?  What's the point? 

[jay741982]

I'd like to think Oliver wouldn't fake his death without finding a way to make sure Felicity knows since he loves her but who knows with the guy we have running this show

[SleepDeprived]

If the show goes with 'Oliver was working with Malcolm to fake his death to pull one over on Ra's' then that will probably be the point when I might say that the show and I are done professionally. Because not only would that cheapen his tragic sacrifice for Thea/his friends/Starling City, there is absolutely zero reason or sense in putting the people Oliver loves through the ringer by concocting/participating in a ruse to have them and Ra's/the LoA believe he is dead. It's not like Ra's has 24/7 surveillance on Team Arrow to monitor if they'll be grieving Oliver's "death." And it's not like Oliver, to prevent the LoA from discovering the ruse, will never, ever wear the Arrow suit again. He does and he will. A fake death plan to appease Ra's/the LoA wouldn't save Thea and would only delay the LoA's quest for retribution. Having Oliver fake his death, with Malcolm's help, only actually hurts those closest to Oliver. If anything, a death ruse would only incite the LoA/Ra's' anger at being made to look like fools that would bring hellfire unto Oliver, everyone he ever knew/loves, and Starling City. This kind of storyline would be just blatant emotional manipulation of the audience to have a cliffhanger-y mid-season finale that serves neither the plot nor the characters.

 

I'm wondering now if Felicity does peace out at the end of 3x12. Not that I would blame her if they team up with Malcolm. Makes sense to me. Maybe we find out what she feels in her exit speech to the Team.

 

You know, if Felicity does end up peace-ing out at the end of 3x12, I can see the show sidelining her a bit for much of the next episode since 3x13 is the Canaries finale of the BC trilogy/tetralogy and I don't really think she's going to be a huge player in that. They can have Felicity cool off as the B- or C- plot (with Diggle, Roy, or Oliver attempting to get her back much like she did when Diggle left in S1). And whatever events will be happening due to Slade coming back to SC in 3x14 is what spurs her return to the foundry (and Team Arrow returning together as a unit to kick butt) in an episode, creatively, titled The Return.

[jay741982]

Hell Slade's return might involve Felicity being snatched and Oliver racing to save her. Though I would like Felicity to save herself Slade is a bigger and stronger person than Cooper

[BkWurm1]

I'd think that the show runners would think Slade kidnapping anyone would be to repetitive at this point.  Ok, I don't know what they think but I think it would be kind of repetitive.  He might as well kidnap two people and make Oliver chose between them. 

[wonderwall]

I don't think he's going to kidnap anyone... I think he's just going to straight up hurt the people Oliver loves the most. No more games. 

[apinknightmare]

I wonder if Oliver uses that little steganography (stegosaurus!) trick he learned in Hong Kong to alert Diggle (or someone who isn't Felicity, but is probably Diggle) to let him know that he's alive and trying to get home? Maybe the method in which he's returning is really dangerous, so he doesn't want to give her hope if he doesn't wind up making it back? Maybe he needs ARGUS's help to extract him? That's the only reason I could come up with for not including Felicity since she's the big brain of that whole operation. 

[looptab]

I'd like it if there were some hidden contingency plan..afterall they did mention 'contingencies' a lot in 'The Climb', and they aren't exactly subtle. But it'll probably end up being something just put out there with no further meaning, like those lines about the comms channel being easily intercepted.*
BTW, am I the only one hoping that when MG says they have plans for Laurel's training,thosr plans involve her being shipped in off-screen land? /joking/ (kinda)

 

*I probably already suggested this. If so, I apologize for my bad memory :)

Edited January 20, 2015 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

I really don't see Oliver in cahoots with Malcolm to take Ra's down. More of the other way around, actually -- aligning with Ra's to get rid of Merlyn [to save Thea].

 

I'm still not completely off my wacky theory that "dying" is the way the League of Assassins recruits, and if Oliver comes back to Starling as a member of the LoA, yeah, I can see Felicity being super extremely mad as hell.

[jay741982]

I'd think that the show runners would think Slade kidnapping anyone would be to repetitive at this point. Ok, I don't know what they think but I think it would be kind of repetitive. He might as well kidnap two people and make Oliver chose between them.

Oh it would be Repetitive but I wouldn't put it past MG to do something like what I suggested . How people have been killed for Laurel's Journey? I wouldn't be Surpised if Slade snatched up Thea and Felicity

I don't think he's going to kidnap anyone... I think he's just going to straight up hurt the people Oliver loves the most. No more games.

Believe me when I read Slade was coming back I said "Felicity is in trouble :(" Same with Thea :(

I wonder if Oliver uses that little steganography (stegosaurus!) trick he learned in Hong Kong to alert Diggle (or someone who isn't Felicity, but is probably Diggle) to let him know that he's alive and trying to get home? Maybe the method in which he's returning is really dangerous, so he doesn't want to give her hope if he doesn't wind up making it back? Maybe he needs ARGUS's help to extract him? That's the only reason I could come up with for not including Felicity since she's the big brain of that whole operation.

Oliver SHOULD know that Felicity would want to know regardless but he is a dum dum sometimes when it comes to the lovely Ms Smoak

Plus Felicity would be pissed as Hell at Dig too

Edited January 20, 2015 by jay741982

[Sunshine]

As for Felicity being mad, I believe it was in the Flash portion of the crossover where Felicity and Dr. Wells were talking about people suppressing their emotions and when they finally let go they usually explode.  I don't remember if that was in relation to the people in the bank or Barry.  Anyway, I think that is what is going to happen with Felicity.  She is going to stand strong even though she is going to be dealing with her fear and sorrow. Team Arrow may be placing her in a position where she has to work with a man she holds responsible for Oliver's death.  When Oliver shows up it will probably manifest itself as anger.  He left her to go on a suicide mission.  His final words were I love you.  She's processing her feelings.  This is where the "I don't want to be a woman you love" comes from.  This is why MG said he might have to get off twitter for a while because Olicity fans were going to be upset at the end of 3.12.  Does she leave the team? I don't know.  She and Laurel are supposed to have a great (in MG's words) scene in 3.13 Canaries.

[HighHopes]

 Does she leave the team? I don't know.  She and Laurel are supposed to have a great (in MG's words) scene in 3.13 Canaries.

 

If Felicity does decide to leave the team I really hope their "great" scene isn't Laurel going to her to convince her to come back to the team. Diggle? Yes. Roy? Yes. Even Lyla would be okay. But from what we have seen so far, Laurel doesn't seem to either respect Felicity or realize her importance to the team isn't just being the IT girl. 

 

And I completely agree with your post about how Felicity's emotions may all come out at once and in the form of anger. 

[Sunshine]

I THINK I read somewhere that the scene was about Felicity giving Laurel a different perspective.  Not sure if that's about Sarah or being a vigilante.  There were some posts on twitter/tumblr that were unhappy about it.  They want Felicity & Laurel to be friends but they want Felicity to look at Laurel like she's an awesome superior.  Felicity giving advice doesn't do that.   

[blixie]

 

think Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver if/when he comes back in 3x12 is really just another way (roadblock) to keep O/F apart until May sweeps. I just hope it makes sense/is in character.

 

Which is exactly why I'm giving up on this show pretty much. They entire season has been one long "roadblock" to Olicity. Newsflash when you write a show that way it tends to SUCK.

[apinknightmare]

As for Felicity being mad, I believe it was in the Flash portion of the crossover where Felicity and Dr. Wells were talking about people suppressing their emotions and when they finally let go they usually explode. I don't remember if that was in relation to the people in the bank or Barry. Anyway, I think that is what is going to happen with Felicity. She is going to stand strong even though she is going to be dealing with her fear and sorrow. Team Arrow may be placing her in a position where she has to work with a man she holds responsible for Oliver's death. When Oliver shows up it will probably manifest itself as anger. He left her to go on a suicide mission. His final words were I love you. She's processing her feelings. This is where the "I don't want to be a woman you love" comes from. This is why MG said he might have to get off twitter for a while because Olicity fans were going to be upset at the end of 3.12. Does she leave the team? I don't know. She and Laurel are supposed to have a great (in MG's words) scene in 3.13 Canaries.

I always hoped the suppressed emotions discussion would come back in a happier way, like when Felicity finally tells him and/or allows herself to acknowledge how she feels about Oliver. Stupid, hopeful me! I think your scenario is more probable.

Still hung up on the weird "a woman you love" wording. Why not just say "I don't want you to love me?" The only thing I can think of is she's grouping herself in with all the others, like she's not any different. It's still weird wording though.

[jay741982]

As for Felicity being mad, I believe it was in the Flash portion of the crossover where Felicity and Dr. Wells were talking about people suppressing their emotions and when they finally let go they usually explode.  I don't remember if that was in relation to the people in the bank or Barry.  Anyway, I think that is what is going to happen with Felicity.  She is going to stand strong even though she is going to be dealing with her fear and sorrow. Team Arrow may be placing her in a position where she has to work with a man she holds responsible for Oliver's death.  When Oliver shows up it will probably manifest itself as anger.  He left her to go on a suicide mission.  His final words were I love you.  She's processing her feelings.  This is where the "I don't want to be a woman you love" comes from.  This is why MG said he might have to get off twitter for a while because Olicity fans were going to be upset at the end of 3.12.  Does she leave the team? I don't know.  She and Laurel are supposed to have a great (in MG's words) scene in 3.13 Canaries.

I will Rage if Fucking laurel is the one who brings her back if she leaves that should be Diggle or Roy. MG just don't get it people are not gonna like Laurel or Ray just cause Felicity shares scenes with them

I THINK I read somewhere that the scene was about Felicity giving Laurel a different perspective.  Not sure if that's about Sarah or being a vigilante.  There were some posts on twitter/tumblr that were unhappy about it.  They want Felicity & Laurel to be friends but they want Felicity to look at Laurel like she's an awesome superior.  Felicity giving advice doesn't do that.

Which Felicity looking at Laurel like she's an awesome superior would be stupid. They don't really want them to be friends .

I always hoped the suppressed emotions discussion would come back in a happier way, like when Felicity finally tells him and/or allows herself to acknowledge how she feels about Oliver. Stupid, hopeful me! I think your scenario is more probable.

Still hung up on the weird "a woman you love" wording. Why not just say "I don't want you to love me?" The only thing I can think of is she's grouping herself in with all the others, like she's not any different. It's still weird wording though.

The smart logical thing to write would be what you suggested regarding Oliver and Felicity. Hint MG if you don't want Oliciters to hate you don't write stupidly. Put them together and move on.

Which is exactly why I'm giving up on this show pretty much. They entire season has been one long "roadblock" to Olicity. Newsflash when you write a show that way it tends to SUCK.

The Olicity angst along with killing Sara to Prop Laurel has made the season depressing. I don't understand how there are Olicters who love this stuff. Again they can be happy and not eat the show

[dtissagirl]

Still hung up on the weird "a woman you love" wording. Why not just say "I don't want you to love me?" The only thing I can think of is she's grouping herself in with all the others, like she's not any different. It's still weird wording though.

 

I think the weirdness of that sentence stems from it sounding like a rebuttal, more than anything. As if someone says "you're a woman I love" or "you could be a woman I love", then Felicity replies with "I don't want to be a woman you love". Which then makes me think it's not Oliver, because he wouldn't say a woman, he'd say the woman.

[jay741982]

I think the weirdness of that sentence stems from it sounding like a rebuttal, more than anything. As if someone says "you're a woman I love" or "you could be a woman I love", then Felicity replies with "I don't want to be a woman you love". Which then makes me think it's not Oliver, because he wouldn't say a woman, he'd say the woman.

Or After she says it Oliver tells her that she's THE woman he loves. The best thing to ever come into his life etc

[Velocity23]

I think someone needs to tell KC what final episodes of the season means.

 

 

And Quentin is gonna break my heart :(

Edited January 20, 2015 by Velocity23

[Sunshine]

Unfortunately, I think they are trying to redo their S1 "epic love" story with a little less toxicity. We still have to get through Nanda Parbat and The Offer (3.15-3.16) which appear to be LOA related. I think there is supposed to be a stand alone Suicide Squad episode (guessing 3.17). Mama Smoak appears in 3.18 so I would guess that will be the beginning of Felicity's thaw towards Oliver. No clue when Oliver decides to get in the game. I don't remember-did Laurel & Oliver get together in 1.21 or 1.22? They love their parallels so I am not expecting them to be together before then. I am fine if they are but I'm not expecting it.

[Morrigan2575]

122

[jay741982]

Ugh I know I may be bitching but I really don't Want Olicity starting two EPs before the finale. Us fans deserve Sexytimes lol

[tv echo]

Wasn't there a spoiler (or a tweet) that MG gave. Someone basically told him that it is not really clever to have one guy die only for his love interest to hook up with the other guy until the dead guy returns. (I cannot seem to find it or remember the actual wording) He said something along the lines of: "Good thing we are not doing it." 

I couldn't find what you're referring to.  But in a recent Tumblr posting, a fan said to MG that it's "really sad that you force soap storylines such as Ray/Felicity romance even in the background of Oliver's death," to which MG responded: "Hit me back in a few episodes."  That gives me hope that they're not going to go in a romantic direction for Ray and Felicity.

 

JB's talking about "shocking" alliances, relationships and break-ups makes me even more convinced, not only that Oliver/TA are going to ally with Malcolm, but that by season's end, the original Team Arrow is going to re-form with costumed superheroes.  The EPs would probably consider this change a natural evolution of the series - Oliver goes from being a solo vigilante, to being helped by a team of 'civilians' (Diggle, Felicity), to heading up a mini-Justice League (Arsenal, BC, Atom?).  They won't get rid of Diggle or Felicity because there'd be too much of a fan outcry, but I can see Diggle being attached to ARGUS in some fashion (with or in place of Lyla) and Felicity becoming the IT support for all of them.  Not what I want to see - but, hey, the EPs only care about giving fans what they need, right?  (Yes, that's sarcasm.)

Edited January 20, 2015 by tv echo

[Carrie Ann]

Still hung up on the weird "a woman you love" wording. Why not just say "I don't want you to love me?" The only thing I can think of is she's grouping herself in with all the others, like she's not any different. It's still weird wording though.

 

I think @dancingnancy's suggestion that the weird wording could be because it's a rebuttal is one good option; I also considered it being a part of a litany of things she doesn't want/want to be. I think that option works whether she's talking to Oliver or to Ray.

 

As for the spec about this whole death thing being faked by Oliver in cahoots with Malcolm, there's no way he could have prevented Oliver from dying, right? Even if he gave him some sort of magic herbs that slow death down in some way, I mean, Ra's could have just beheaded him if he wanted to do that.

 

So like @dancingnancy, I've considered that his death was intentionally faked, but that Ra's was actually the one in on it. I wondered about it as soon as he didn't stab him through the heart. Like, he knows a million ways to surefire kill someone, and he seemed to sort of like Oliver, so I don't think he'd want to give him a slow, painful death if he could avoid it.

 

The sticking points are: it doesn't work with what the producers are saying about how Oliver will long for the days of Slade when he sees the shit Ra's will put him through. And also, if Ra's is involved with keeping Oliver alive, I don't think that explains Felicity's rage, because I'm pretty certain Oliver and Ra's did not have a chat about this in advance. But, both of those issues can be waved off with the fact that the EPs intentionally mislead pretty often, and secondly, they could just easily show that some sort of conversation/communication did occur before the duel. On the other hand, my reasons for not believing that Malcolm and Oliver planned all of this rely on logical storytelling, and I should have learned by now not to speculate on this show based on that.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I couldn't find what you're referring to.  But in a recent Tumblr posting, a fan said to MG that it's "really sad that you force soap storylines such as Ray/Felicity romance even in the background of Oliver's death," to which MG responded: "Hit me back in a few episodes."  That gives me hope that they're not going to go in a romantic direction for Ray and Felicity.

 

Here's what Belinea was referring to:

Hoping arrow won't use soapy cliches: guy "dies", girl suddenly falls for another, "dead" guy returns #overused @mguggenheim #disappointing

 

 

And then Guggenheim answered "Guess it's a good thing we're not doing that, then."  With Guggenheim, I'm really unsure of how to take this because this could be exactly what is happening, and he could be outright lying and saying it's not, or he could claim it's not "sudden" because it happens five episodes from now.  Or he could be telling the truth...maybe.   

[looptab]

If there really was some plan, I hope he made it with Maseo. It's the only one that makes sense to me. And Nyssa has got to be involved somehow, if by ep 15 she is well aware Oliver is still alive and strolls around rooftops with him, instead of killing him on the spot.

[Chaser]

Given the comments about Felicity/EBR's likabilty factor, I hope the writers don't used that as a cushion to throw Felicity out of character for dramatic affect. 

 

At this point, there are only two things I can see her being mad as hell at Oliver about 1) Faking his death and 2)Aligning with Malcolm when he returns. Faking his death seems iffy to because I don't understand why he wouldn't like Diggle and Felicity in on it. Aligning with Malcolm makes no sense what so ever.

 

Unless Oliver returns from the dead and acts like nothing happened like  'Hey I'm alive and I love you what to take a moonlight stroll with me on a beach?'. I would punch him in the face for that.

[Sunshine]

I couldn't find what you're referring to.  But in a recent Tumblr posting, a fan said to MG that it's "really sad that you force soap storylines such as Ray/Felicity romance even in the background of Oliver's death," to which MG responded: "Hit me back in a few episodes."  That gives me hope that they're not going to go in a romantic direction for Ray and Felicity.

 

JB's talking about "shocking" alliances, relationships and break-ups makes me even more convinced, not only that Oliver/TA are going to ally with Malcolm, but that by season's end, the original Team Arrow is going to re-form with costumed superheroes.  The EPs would probably consider this change a natural evolution of the series - Oliver goes from being a solo vigilante, to being helped by a team of civilians (Diggle, Felicity), to heading up a mini-Justice League (Arsenal, BC, Atom?).  They won't get rid of Diggle or Felicity because there'd be too much of a fan outcry, but I can see Diggle being attached to ARGUS in some fashion (with or in place of Lyla) and Felicity becoming the IT support for all of them.  Not what I want to see - but, hey, the EPs only care about giving fans what they need, right?  (Yes, that's sarcasm.)

IF they go romantic with Felicity & Ray it won't be until after Oliver returns. I am not convinced they are going that way at all. They could and perhaps I am in denial. Oliver walking in on the kiss in 3.07 was enough to convince him that she had moved on. I think they will at least develop a deeper friendship than has been shown previously.

The way Oliver & Felicity are being written as a romantic storyline makes some sense to me. (It doesn't mean I like it.) The rest of the storylines are so convoluted I can't figure out where they are going except it does appear that we are coming up with a new team of costumed heroes with Felicity providing IT support for all of them. This is why she has to have scenes with Laurel. A friendship doesn't have to result from that relationship but trust does. I can't decide what I think they are doing with Diggle or Thea for that matter.

Given the comments about Felicity/EBR's likabilty factor, I hope the writers don't used that as a cushion to throw Felicity out of character for dramatic affect. 

 

At this point, there are only two things I can see her being mad as hell at Oliver about 1) Faking his death and 2)Aligning with Malcolm when he returns. Faking his death seems iffy to because I don't understand why he wouldn't like Diggle and Felicity in on it. Aligning with Malcolm makes no sense what so ever.

 

Unless Oliver returns from the dead and acts like nothing happened like  'Hey I'm alive and I love you what to take a moonlight stroll with me on a beach?'. I would punch him in the face for that.

It may be irrational but it's not uncommon for grieving people to be angry at the loved one for dying and leaving them.

[Danny Franks]

Here's what Belinea was referring to:

 

And then Guggenheim answered "Guess it's a good thing we're not doing that, then."  With Guggenheim, I'm really unsure of how to take this because this could be exactly what is happening, and he could be outright lying and saying it's not, or he could claim it's not "sudden" because it happens five episodes from now.  Or he could be telling the truth...maybe.   

 

I'm guessing that he's taking the complaint word for word, and that Felicity will get with Ray after Oliver returns, so they're not doing a 'falls for someone else while the guy she loves is dead'. Doubt they're going to give up on the 'ship blocking storyline, not when they can make Oliver/Felicity all starcrossed and angsty, with ample opportunities for Oliver woobie face.

[Jessie2009]

Do we even know for sure that oliver returns in 3x12?

[Sunshine]

They haven't come out and said he is but:

1. SA was shooting for 2 days at the end of the episode shoot.

2. They did state that the flashbacks were Merlyn's.

3. MG said on tumblr that Olicity fans were going to be mad at him after 3.12 and he would have to stay off twitter.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sunshine

[tv echo]

That Robert Dougherty article that wonderwall quoted in the Media thread ("The Best Case Scenarios for Arrow Season 3B") really captures a lot of my fears for the remainder of this season.  Dougherty has the following hopes/wishes for 3B:

 

1.  An Oliver-free trilogy that isn’t overrun by Laurel.
2.  Thea being allowed to see the whole truth once and for all.
3.  The end of secrecy on Arrow.
4.  Actual screen time for Malcolm Merlyn.
5.  A quick end to Raylicity.
6.  Diggle to shine personally and professionally.
7.  A.R.G.U.S. and Amanda Waller to factor into the present day.
8.  Female friendship to return to Arrow.
9.  Felicity to not look bad for the sake of drama.
10.  Oliver not becoming a soulless zombie for 10 episodes.
11.  Not waiting until the season finale to stop dragging Olicity out.

Considering that Season 3B starts with an entire trilogy about an Oliver Queen less Team Arrow, the official debut of Laurel Lance’s Black Canary, and angst galore for any Olicity and Felicity fan, it is all too easy to be very skeptical and weary. In fact, considering what’s to come and what will surely come when Oliver returns from the certain dead, it is far too easy for this writer to dread even watching much of the next 13 weeks to come.
*   *   *
For myself, here are the things I hope for in Arrow Season 3B that would make me eat all of my negative words. Some of these hopes are those of a downright dreamer, but if even half of this list comes true in the next 13 weeks, I will gladly eat my Canary-shaped crow.

Edited January 20, 2015 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

If this is true (and I'm not sure if the writers are smart/creative enough to have Oliver/Malcolm secretly working together) then I would completely understand Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver. 

I think not only Felicity being "mad as hell" at Oliver, the audience would be mad as hell at the show. To make us go through the emotions and mourning of characters like Diggle and Felicity, only to be told "Ha, ha, fooled 'ya" would be rage inducing.

 

Asked if Slade will go after Thea or Oliver's friends, MG says: "One of those two possibilities, yes. ;) "

Does Thea have friends?  With Sin gone, there's only Roy.

 

 

I really don't see Oliver in cahoots with Malcolm to take Ra's down. More of the other way around, actually -- aligning with Ra's to get rid of Merlyn [to save Thea].

 

I'm still not completely off my wacky theory that "dying" is the way the League of Assassins recruits, and if Oliver comes back to Starling as a member of the LoA, yeah, I can see Felicity being super extremely mad as hell.

If Ra's didn't care about Sara, I doubt he cares two hoots about Thea.  And while I can see him joining forces with Oliver to bring down Merlyn, the whole Ra's vs Oliver started with Oliver refusing to let Ra's kill Merlyn so I doubt Ra's would trust Oliver now.

 

But absolutely Felicity would be furious if Oliver can back as a member of the LoA.  But I think that's going to be explored later in The Offer.

 

Which Felicity looking at Laurel like she's an awesome superior would be stupid. They don't really want them to be friends 

Of course. Felicity has taken so much from Laurel, leading lady status as well as Oliver, they want her to acknowledge that Laurel is the superior being.

 

I've always like Robert Dougherty's take on Arrow. I hope those things happen.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[Password]

I took that question about Thea or Oliver's friends to be separate questions. As in will Slade go after Thea or any of Oliver's friends.

I doubt it'd be Thea because been there, done that. But you never know with these writers.

Whether or not Oliver joins the LoA would depend on whether or not he was brain washed. The show has no qualms with taking its characters agency away so, why not. Nothing suggested in the show down on the cliff that Oliver would be so inclined. Au contraire, he seemed to have two things to fight for and get back to.

Unless they threaten Thea's life i f he doesn't, but I'd question why they would want to. He paid the debt with his life, it's been paid, moving on swiftly.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Limbo

[Sunshine]

I only think he would go after Thea if she were to hook up with Chase in 3.13 and Chase turns out to be Slade's son as has been speculated.

The EPs did say that something happens in 3.13 which made them think 3.14 was a good time to bring Slade back. Also, MG said we would know if Slade really thinks Oliver loves Felicity or if it was just a ruse. He fell for it in 2.23. I guess they could say he thought it was a ruse and go after Laurel but at this point in the story would it make sense? (Ha! Why am I looking for logic?!) I guess he could go after Laurel again if that is what she fears the most in 3.13 because of Vertigo. He might think she's Sarah.

The flashbacks in 3.14 appear to be a previous trip to Starling City with Maseo. I guess Susanna Thompson is the parent MG spoiled we would see in an upcoming episode. Robert would have been dead. I think AK said something from 1.11 would pay off in this episode. Maybe it's the origin of the list.

I just thought of another reason for Slade going after Thea. Ra's releases him from Purgatory and sends him to fetch Thea. In 3.13 it comes out that Thea killed Sarah. If so "The Return" title could be referring to Ra's. He either knows Thea killed Sarah while under the influence or he simply wants to force Malcolm into the open. 3.15's title is "Nanda Parbat" and 3.16 is "The Offer". Oliver and Malcolm may team up to rescue Thea and then Ra's offers to be Oliver's mentor in 3.16. (They have alluded to this vaguely in interviews.) I would guess Oliver refuses as he is clinging to his humanity. This sets up the conflict for the remainder of the season. Also, if Oliver & Malcolm are in Nanda Parbat you have the new heroes watching SC.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sunshine

[Jessie2009]

I looked at that article from that panel and Guggenheim never actually says olicity fans are going to be mad at him at the end of 312. He says fans will be mad on twitter but never specifically that it would be olicity, so I'm not ruling out yet that everyone but felicity decides to work with Merlyn and she leaves the team because of it and that's why felicity is mad as hell.

[statsgirl]

Yeah, I'm still hoping that Felicity is mad at other people (Ray, please?) and not Oliver.

 

I only think he would go after Thea if she were to hook up with Chase in 3.13 and Chase turns out to be Slade's son as has been speculated.

The EPs did say that something happens in 3.13 which made them think 3.14 was a good time to bring Slade back. Also, MG said we would know if Slade really thinks Oliver loves Felicity or if it was just a ruse. He fell for it in 2.23. I guess they could say he thought it was a ruse and go after Laurel but at this point in the story would it make sense? (Ha! Why am I looking for logic?!) I guess he could go after Laurel again if that is what she fears the most in 3.13 because of Vertigo. He might think she's Sarah.

Laurel does think she's Sara.  That's a big part of the problem, she's isn't.

 

Maybe Slade is as smart as Natalie Abrams and figures out that Oliver just sacrificed Felicity so he could save Laurel.  I'd love to see Slade take Laurel and Laurel try to fight him back. Slade would be laughing so hard...

 

Chase as Slade's son makes sense, but I really don't want any other reason to have that greasy douche on screen.

 

I took that question about Thea or Oliver's friends to be separate questions. As in will Slade go after Thea or any of Oliver's friends.

You're right.  I shouldn't try to think before coffee.

Edited January 20, 2015 by statsgirl