Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

All of this seems wildly out of character for Felicity, including throwing Oliver a melodramatic scene as soon as he gets back from being dead.

 

Incidentally, if he's in 312, and he's in that shot in 310, doesn't that make SA's statement that Oliver will be missing in 2 episodes wrong?

 

We don't even know what kind of scene it'll be or what prompts it, or if she's the one who pushes him away again. Maybe he doesn't come back ready to fight for a life yet. Maybe he doubles down on the distraction all the while (again) telling her that he loves her, but he just can't be with her. Maybe her "best moment" or whatever MG called it comes from that.

 

SA's not great at math, so maybe that's why he said he was missing for 2 eps if he wasn't - could be his scenes for 3x10 were filmed while they were filming 3x9, so he got confused? Also could be that he's not in 3x12 but for a sec, and Emily's big Olicity-killing moment comes while he's not around? Like, she's talking to his suit or...IDK. As long as it's not a Ray Palmer lunge or kiss or anything romantic while Oliver's still missing...

[catrox14]

I think the most Olicity we will ever get is what we've had. I think they are trying to reconfigure for next season to make Lauriver a thing again.

[apinknightmare]

God, some of ya'll are so easily discouraged, haha.

 

ETA: I know it's not easy to have faith in this show at the moment, but nothing is happening that we haven't been expecting since the summer.

Edited January 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

Catrox14 that would be the stupidest fucking thing they could do. I'm saying it right now if they kill her off I will scream cuss Cry and never watch this show again

 

Well, making Laurel BC with no actual crucible was pretty fucking stupid. They have killed off Moira and Robert t who were all the people Oliver thought about upon his death.  Thea has been sent to the darkside with Malcolm and they fridged Tommy to motivate Oliver. 

 

So yep, I'm calling it now. Felicity will be killed off in the next two seasons to cause Oliver maximum pain and get Black Canary and Oliver Queen in a couple.

Edited January 11, 2015 by catrox14

[ban1o]

God, some of ya'll are so easily discouraged, haha.

 

ETA: I know it's not easy to have faith in this show at the moment, but literally nothing is happening that we haven't been expecting since the summer.

this haha. 

[JJ928]

I think we need to look at was is actually quoted : 

 

“When we started there was no Felicity. Stephen and Emily had this very natural chemistry that we started writing towards. There wasn’t this grand plan to get these two characters together,” said Guggenheim.

 

“It’s great that the fans on Twitter have embraced that relationship but we chart our own course.”

 

“There’s a scene at the end of episode 12, it’s Emily’s strongest performance on the show."

 

Did we really believe Olicity would be together the moment Oliver got back? I don't expect them to really reunite until the finale. What MG said doesn't make me think that they've abandoned Olicity, just that they're not giving into the pressure of doing it at the pace fans want. The journalist made the blurb sound much more ominous than it probably is. Also, we should be getting write up from more reliable sources soon too. Just my opinion.

[KenyaJ]

 After all the spoilers coming out about Laurel and Ray, I just needed something positive.

 

This. For weeks, I've been searching for something, anything that would make me want to tune in for the rest of the season. 

 

But I don't care about Ray or The Atom. And I'm bitter about my favorite character being stranded on Ray Island when his storyline isn't integrated into anything having to do with Oliver or Team Arrow, and the producers confirmed today that it's not gonna be.

 

I'm completely insulted by the Black Canary storyline, and 100% done with anything involving Laurel.

 

I'm not here for Oprah's Favorite Superheroes -- "You get a mask! And you get a mask! And you get a mask!

 

Original Team Arrow is a distant memory.

 

Felicity and Oliver can't be together because reasons.

 

And Thea's nothing more than a witless dupe for all the men in her life.

 

Bottom line is, right now, there's not a single, solitary thing making excited about this show. Not one. Considering this was my absolute favorite show before Season 3 started, this is a pretty sad state of affairs.

[Happy Harpy]

Raylicity is awful. Just awful. I could take anyone... anyone. What about that her college roommate? He lives in Starling City. I don't mind him. Anyone but Ray.

I just cannot stomach Raylicity.

The worst, imo, is that it's going to destroy everything that Oliver/Felicity had for it. Trust, truth, respect, understanding.They're going to cheapen the relationship. I don't think they realize that is the true Moonlighting curse.

 

I feel sad, I think that the Flash crossover was my last episode of Arrow.

 

God, some of ya'll are so easily discouraged, haha.

 

ETA: I know it's not easy to have faith in this show at the moment, but literally nothing is happening that we haven't been expecting since the summer.

I've been watching TV shows for more than 28 years. I can still be naive and hope, but I think I know by now when the writing is on the wall. Thanks for respecting this feeling (like you, not trying to be the mod!).

[apinknightmare]

I've been watching TV shows for more than 28 years. I can still be naive and hope, but I think I know by now when the writing is on the wall. Thanks for respecting this feeling (like you, not trying to be the mod!).

 

Never said you didn't have the right to feel that way, nor was I intentionally disrespectful. Sorry if it came off that way.

 

Just seems like there's a trend (in general, in this age of social media) of getting kind of worked up over one tidbit of information and then having more information come out that makes it seem not so bad.  But like I added to my comment - I understand why people feel like they can't trust the writers.

Edited January 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

God, some of ya'll are so easily discouraged, haha.

 

ETA: I know it's not easy to have faith in this show at the moment, but nothing is happening that we haven't been expecting since the summer.

 

w. I do not believe anyone expected Oliver to be absent from 3 episodes save flashbacks. I don't think anyone expected Sara to be murdered in the season premiere. I don't think most people expected Oliver to actually kiss Felicity.   I hope you can come back here at the end of the season and point and laugh at those who are IMO reasonably fearful and disappointed with the spoilers and direction of the show, for being wrong.

Edited January 11, 2015 by catrox14

[Angel12d]

I can't believe MG said he was surprised by the fan reaction to Oliver's death and didn't expect it to be so passionate. Um. You killed off the main character, dude. WTF did you think would happen? 

 

There is such a disconnect there, it's unreal. That's what is truly worrisome.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

w. I do not believe anyone expected Oliver to be absent from 3 episodes save flashbacks. I don't think anyone expected Sara to be murdered in the season premiere.  I hope you can come back here at the end of the season and point and laugh at those who are IMO reasonably fearful and disappointed with the spoilers and direction of the show

 

Jeez, I didn't point and laugh at anyone, and my comment was about the influx of Olicity disheartenment after MG's interview was posted - not about Laurel or about Oliver "dying" or about Sara actually dying. Never did I say that anyone didn't have a right to feel that way, or that they were stupid for being upset, it was just interesting to me how quickly the tides turned after that one interview. We knew Ray was coming on to be an Olicity obstacle - I just don't understand why people seem to be getting disheartened about it now - we've been discussing the possibility of this relationship since it was posted that Felicity would be getting a love interest. Since before we actually knew his name was Ray.

Edited January 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Happy Harpy]

Never said you didn't have the right to feel that way, nor was I intentionally disrespectful. Sorry if it came off that way.

No problem :) (Very emotional day here, for infinitely more serious reasons). Indeed, I think that if we -the desperate lot- trusted the writers, it would be a whole other story.

 

But they have dangled "maybes", and have used imo Oliver/Felicity as bait on many episodes -take TVline articles on the Cupid one, for example- and have tried to make their fans like what they did even though they were aware the fans wouldn't; so seeing them being so straightforward about said fan not liking it can only be the equivalent of a walk in Mordor for me.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[jay741982]

Catrox14 I agree with your post

[NumberCruncher]

As per usual, Guggenheim is working his hardest to suck every last drop of joy out of this show. Let's see...in just 9 episodes they have (literally) trashed Sara, "killed" Oliver, turned Thea into a killer, and perpetuated a horrible dupe on Quentin. Now they're looking to make Quentin an even greater fool and are shacking up Felicity up with a man who has taken advantage of and stalked her by f*cking up her relationship with Oliver. It's amazing how quickly the wheels have come off of this show. I was sticking to the hope that things would turn around after these 3 episodes, but now I'm not so sure.

I have to ask myself if this is worth my time anymore. Where there's no more joy, there's no more me. These spoilers hold absolutely no interest to me. I don't want to see BC, Arsenal, or The Atom in action, nor to I want to watch Lance being pathetic. I figured I'd be able to offset that with some positive development in Oliver and Felicity's relationship but apparently that's now not a possibility. I think I've finally reached peak indifference.

[BkWurm1]

So yep, I'm calling it now. Felicity will be killed off in the next two seasons to cause Oliver maximum pain and get Black Canary and Oliver Queen in a couple.

 Edited by catrox14, 4 minutes ago.

 

I don't think so.  As the show goes on, the producers need Oliver to become lighter in the present and darker in the past so, no, I don't think Felicity is in danger down the road.  Also, it probably would kill the show. 

[jay741982]

Except for Felicity being killed off I don't think they would do that but then again who knows

[catrox14]

Jeez, I didn't point and laugh at anyone, and my comment was about the influx of Olicity disheartenment after MG's interview was posted - not about Laurel or about Oliver "dying" or about Sara actually dying. Never did I say that anyone didn't have a right to feel that way, or that they were stupid for being upset, it was just interesting to me how quickly the tides turned after that one interview. We knew Ray was coming on to be an Olicity obstacle - I just don't understand why people seem to be getting disheartened about it now - we've been discussing the possibility of this relationship since it was posted that Felicity would be getting a love interest. Since before we actually knew his name was Ray.

 

I didn't say you did laugh and point. I'm saying I hope we are all wrong and that you can come back and laugh and point at our wrongness.  But I think there has been a lot of disappointment with the show direction since about the back half of s2 with the Laurel arc and that's then followed by "killing off" the main character and killing off Sara,  so to me this ongoing fear of disappointment comes from a precedence the show set itself regardless if it's about Olicity or other things that are disappointing.

[apinknightmare]

I didn't say you did laugh and point. I'm saying I hope we are all wrong and that you can come back and laugh and point at our wrongness.  But I think there has been a lot of disappointment with the show direction since about the back half of s2 with the Laurel arc and that's then followed by "killing off" the main character and killing off Sara,  so to me this ongoing fear of disappointment comes from a precedence the show set itself regardless if it's about Olicity or other things that are disappointing.

 

Ah, okay. I see what you're saying. 

 

There's a lot to be disappointed about, I just don't think that the EPs are stringing people along with regards to Oliver and Felicity. I think there is every intention of going there with the two of them (and I do think they are endgame) - too much of Oliver's narrative and his road to redemption has been tied to her for it not to happen. Not saying the way it plays out won't be disappointing or maddening, but there is no doubt in my mind that Oliver and Felicity are happening at some point - not sure it's going to be this season, but at some point. Hopefully not in the too distant future.

[ban1o]

Mmm I'm pretty confident Lauriver isnt happening again and Olicity is endgame and they are just using the trope of delaying the romance a little bit, because the hero "can never get the girl." which is unfortunate, but is what it is. I understand with the course this show has taken recently, that people are discouraged but I don't think his comments indicate all that Olicity is completely over or Felicity will be killed off. They just say that people won`t be happy with what happens in 3x12.

 

I could be wrong though. Who knows. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by ban1o

[catrox14]

I don't think so.  As the show goes on, the producers need Oliver to become lighter in the present and darker in the past so, no, I don't think Felicity is in danger down the road.  Also, it probably would kill the show. 

 

 

I think they would do it for the shock value. I really do. Then Oliver will turn to Laurel and she'll be his light going forward. I'm sorry to even think it, but this is how little I trust the writers.  And Arrow has been my favorite show for 3 seasons..it pains me to even contemplate it but I wouldn't be surprised.

[jay741982]

Which is dumb cause the Hero always gets the Girl. Oliver does have Felicity but she has her abandonment issues understandably and God knows he has his issues but this crap is unnecessary

[BkWurm1]

Let's see...in just 9 episodes they have (literally) trashed Sara, "killed" Oliver, turned Thea into a killer, and perpetuated a horrible dupe on Quentin. Now they're looking to make Quentin an even greater fool and are shacking up Felicity up with a man who has taken advantage of and stalked her by f*cking up her relationship with Oliver. It's amazing how quickly the wheels have come off of this show.

 

Call me an optimist, but how crappy everything has been is one of the big reasons I'm holding on to hope that we will get some version of happy ending at the end of the season. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I like the notion that Felicity is the one that rejects Oliver out of fear that she really is a distraction and puts the city and him at risk, this fear would be amplified a hundred fold after he's died. Suddenly he's alive and she'll do anything to keep it that way, even give him up. 

 

This plays nicely into my ongoing crazy theory that Oliver will at the end of the season hang up his tights.  Oliver spends the first half convinced he can't be with Felicity and Felicity spends the second half believing him, so it would make logical sense that if Oliver feels the Arrow isn't necessary, he could step down and start making a difference as Oliver Queen like Barry suggested.  Bonus, he gets the girl.   

Edited January 12, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

To me Catrox14 the shock value would be killlig off Laurel cause she's so very unpopular yet she gets everything handed to her.

[Angel12d]

I'm trying to chill now and remember that everything MG has said in the past is either overhyped or just plain wrong/inaccurate. But it is hard not to feel disheartened. I never expected Olicity to happen until the end of this season, at least, so it's no surprise that things will be derailed. However, I am concerned with how that's going to happen. The journey for Olicity is as important as the destination (this so called endgame) and if that's not written well, it kind of puts a dampener on things, doesn't it? And it's hard to be excited about a show when I think they're doing most of it wrong (Laurel as BC, Ray, Raylcity to name a few).

 

That said, I really don't think we have to worry about Lauriver again. They completely restructured the romantic pairing of the whole show. Everything they did in 301 and then Oliver's dying thoughts of Felicity in 309 is what I'm holding onto right now. I really don't see any going back from that tbh. They can put things on pause, maybe even until s4, but it's happening. I just hope I still have the desire to watch when it does. ;)

Edited January 12, 2015 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

Which is dumb cause the Hero always gets the Girl. Oliver does have Felicity but she has her abandonment issues understandably and God knows he has his issues but this crap is unnecessary

 

Right - Oliver will get the girl, they were just showing where his mind is at at the moment, where he is on his path. He thinks that in order to be a hero he doesn't get to have a personal life. That because of what he does, he can't be with her the way he wants to. That'll change eventually.

[ban1o]

Mmm now that I think about it, are we 100% sure Oliver will be back by episode 12? It could be hooking up with Ray or something. Don't really see how that would be her strongest acting moment though. 

[Danny Franks]

God, some of ya'll are so easily discouraged, haha.

 

ETA: I know it's not easy to have faith in this show at the moment, but nothing is happening that we haven't been expecting since the summer.

 

I would say that the difference is, in the summer all this knowledge was presented on a clean slate. There was no awareness of how things would develop between Oliver and Felicity in the six months between seasons, how Oliver would sabotage himself and then declare his love for her, and then go off and die. And there was no knowledge of how fucking creepy the stalker would be.

 

So now, developments that seemed reasonable (for a bunch of shitty, hackneyed writers) seem completely ridiculous because all those things happened, and now Felicity hooking up with 50 Shades seems wildly out of character, given where her head is likely to be.

 

But what the hell, I gave up on this pile of shit before the season started. And I'm so happy that I did, because this all sounds completely dreadful.

[catrox14]

Oliver will get the girl, but I think it's a fair question with Laurel becoming BC (like in the comics) which girl that will be. This season it's Felicity but that doesn't mean it will stay that way in future seasons.

[wonderwall]

I think that people forget that there are at 11 more episodes to come after Felicity possibly rejects Oliver. This could be because of what she felt when he 'died'. She doesn't want to go through that. I think the back half of this season is Felicity coming to terms with her feelings and the possibility of losing Oliver. So, really, this is hero trope in reverse. It isn't the hero saying, I can't be with you because it'll put you in danger, it's the romantic partner saying, I can't be with you because being with you then losing you would be unimaginable. 

 

Anyways, that's Felicity's battle for the rest of the season. 

 

Regarding the "charter their own course" it very much sounds like MG and co. will do whatever they want regardless of what people on twitter say regarding Oliver and Felicity. It means that Oliver and Felicity is going to happen regardless of what people on twitter say. And if you think about it, the fact that they "charter their own course" means that they're so  not going to stick to comic canon (aka Lauriver). 

 

Reading the comment the first time I was definitely disheartened, but after thinking about it, what he said isn't something I didn't expect. I somehow knew (although I wished the opposite) that Raylicity would happen (which we don't know will yet, just saying) and that Oliver and Felicity wouldn't get together when he returns. Their relationship is still on the rocks and this time it's Felicity who's putting on the breaks. 

 

What's more disheartening about the spoilers was KC talking about Laurel about how she wants to become her sister and how she will end up fooling Quentin by posing as the Black Canary. that's just 50000 shades of wrong right there. Laurel should forge her own path and not try to become like her sister. That's so weird and that's not what Sara would want. How in the world could she honor Sara by doing the exact opposite of what she wanted?! It's just baffling to me and makes no sense whatsoever. And to me, this seems like Laurel will still be emotionally weak and won't grow in that regard which is also disheartening because I want them to fix her character not break her even more making her look like an incompetent weak ass. 

[dtissagirl]

Okay. I can't believe I'm gonna play Devil's Advocate for Guggentroll of all people, but since I'm gonna take some potshots at him as well, I figure it's all right. Bear with me if you please.

 

I think it's been pretty clear that Guggenheim should probably ease off Twitter. I mean, it's cool that he answers questions when he can, but he also obviously favors the Oliver/Felicity fans there, and he sometimes gets a bit too much adversarial when he should probably just hit the mute button and go take a walk or something. That interview he did with his wife was actually pretty eye-opening in showing me this is one of those dudes who really really REALLY loves the sound of his own voice, which I guess explains his behaviour on Twitter as well.

 

Anyway. There's a subset of fans who spend all of their time on his @ mentions telling him that everything that they [this subset of fans] think is wrong with the show is because MG is listening to the Felicity/Oliver 'shippers on Twitter, in detriment to every other subset of fandom. It's quite the anachronism, actually, that these people both think 'shippers are a vocal/loud minority on Twitter, but that they also have the uncanny superpower of heavily influencing the story in a superhero property owned by a giant billionaire conglomerate, but the fact is, Guggenheim is hearing this everyday on Twitter: he's fan-servicing and fan-pandering to Felicity, and to Felicity/Oliver 24/7.

 

And we know he's reading this crap and assimilating it, because he sometimes answers people when he should have taken the aforementioned walk.

 

So when a journalist asks him about fanpandering, especially with regards to Felicity/Oliver, I think it's really no surprise that his answer is NO I DON'T DO FANPANDERING, AND HERE'S PROOF: I'm about to piss off those exact 'shippers you're accusing of being my masters.

 

And he's not even saying anything new -- we've known they'll do the Crazy Eyes Temporary Love Interest thing sooner or later, but probably sooner, some time during February Sweeps because this is how this is done, but admitting to this saves his face from an actual accusation of "You filthy fanpanderer!!!11one!!11!!", because this time it's not coming from anonymous tweets, it's coming from a journo during the TCAs, which are the most ~serious venue of TV coverage on the planet.

Edited January 11, 2015 by dancingnancy

[KenyaJ]

That said, I really don't think we have to worry about Lauriver again. They completely restructured the romantic pairing of the whole show. Everything they did in 301 and then Oliver's dying thoughts of Felicity in 309 is what I'm holding onto right now. I really don't see any going back from that tbh. They can put things on pause, maybe even until s4, but it's happening. I just hope I still have the desire to watch when it does. ;)

 

Yeah, I don't have any concerns about Lauriver either. And I 100% believe Olicity is endgame. But like you said, that means nothing to me if I don't want to see anything that's happening on the show in the meantime.

Edited January 11, 2015 by KenyaJ

[Happy Harpy]

We knew Ray was coming on to be an Olicity obstacle - I just don't understand why people seem to be getting disheartened about it now - we've been discussing the possibility of this relationship since it was posted that Felicity would be getting a love interest. Since before we actually knew his name was Ray.

I think that Felicity lovers, and even Oliver/Felicity lovers were, in a way, spoiled with Barry. I wouldn't want him full time on Arrow and I never saw a romantic chemistry between Felicity and him, but he trumped many pessimistic expectations. He was a well-defined character, enough to carry a show it seems and no, I didn't expect it. He had chemistry (even if it was brotherly for me) with Felicity and the whole cast he interacted with, and the Felicity/Barry scenes had something natural about them. He wasn't a pale replacement for Oliver, so even though I wasn't for the pairing, I could see how others would be and why the character of Felicity could go for it. And contrary to what I personally feared, Barry didn't push Oliver in the backseat on his own show, he actually brought a lot to Oliver's story.

 

The big disappointment here comes from the fact that even though the Love Interest thingy was expected, we kind of hoped that somewhere, the same would happen with Ray.

But imo, it didn't. Ray had nowhere near the same reception or acceptance as Barry had. And story-wise, character-wise, he did all the opposite imo. Many people seem to feel he doesn't work as a love interest, or even that he's downright wrong for Felicity. Or even that he just doesn't work as a character on this show. No disclaimer, sorry, he can't be called a fan favorite. He's divisive, at the very least.

I guess that I was still hoping we were like in mid-season 1 and the showrunners still tried to keep what worked for the audience and the show at the same time. I hoped that, understanding how Ray wasn't a hit, they'd tone him down, regroup, and reorient the character into something else than Felicity's love interest. And stop the will they-won't they with Felicity/Oliver for a "they are, OK, they're hot and sweet but let's get down to Team Arrow business because that's what matters".

Yet those ominous comments from the showrunners, especially after Sara who, for many it seems, worked better as the BC and yet was discarded...are very disheartening. TPTB seem to go against their audience, or a good chunk of it, at least. I don't think it bodes well.

[Chaser]

I agree that a lot of us in the fandom have a habit of over reacting. I don't see any evidence they are back tracking on the romance. All I see is them stalling olicity. And there are ways it could happen that would be in character that I would support. There are also ways it could go horribly wrong. I think my neegative view of other elements in the show is making me wary of everything right now.

[jay741982]

BkWurm1 you like my theory about what Felicity does when Oliver gets Back! I'm worried that if they do that though Felicity will lose favor with some fans which would be stupid

[apinknightmare]

I agree, Happy Harpy. I understand where you guys are coming from. My comment about people being easily discouraged really didn't have anything to do with how I thought people should feel about the writing or whether or not Ray is a viable love interest or anything like that. People are right to have issues with these things; I know I do. But MG has a history of being a bit sensational, and as a fandom we have a tendency to just jump off the proverbial cliff after an interview comes out. I was just surprised that in an interview where almost no new information was revealed and MG was reiterating something he'd already said that so many people had such a strong reaction to it.

[JenMcSnark]

I love Olicity, but I'm not necessarily an Olicity shipper, if that makes sense.  If Oliver and Felicity can't make it work, even for stupid "reasons", I might be okay with that as long as the rest of the show isn't shit.

 

Shit =:

 

• Felicity being pushed to the background and made an accessory to the "hero" stories of men.  She needs and deserves a story of her own.
• Laurel becoming whatever it is she is becoming.  InstaCanary or a copy of Sarah...neither work for me. If she is a terrible fighter, then she should become Manhunter.
• Arrow/Oliver Queen not being the focus of his own damn show.  I mean, WTF.
• Continued lack of Team Arrow. Which is just so much bullshit.
• And last but not least, I do feel like I've been jerked around by TIIC.  They run Felicity and Olicity out there to suck people in and then do nothing, or - worse - cockblock them.  It's beyond ridiculous.  I'm tired of being treated like I am an idiot in regards to this show. I don't trust them.  They do suck.  And I'm getting really tired of watching this show deteriorate.

 

I, personally, will not be watching or tweeting about the next 3 episodes (unless it is Felicity or Diggle related).  I will watch on the DVR, but only 8+ days after airing because DVR views are counted for the first week after a show airs. It is not only Neilsen (sp?) families that are counted in this day of modern technology.  

 

And after that, I may quit the show entirely depending on how the next 8 episodes go.  I have this shitshow on a very short leash at this point. 

 

Edited because:  To clean up my bullets and also because I forgot one:

 

• I do think Lauriver might be the end game.  There hasn't been any guarantee of Olicity OTP.  Also, comments were made by Stephen that Felicity was the only woman for Oliver in season 3.  And a lot of the stuff they're doing does forshadow a GA/BC pairing down the road IMO.  

Edited January 11, 2015 by JenMcSnark

[BkWurm1]

BkWurm1 you like my theory about what Felicity does when Oliver gets Back! I'm worried that if they do that though Felicity will lose favor with some fans which would be stupid

I can see her bowing out for one of two reasons.  Either Oliver still is an idiot or she thinks she is harmful to Oliver and takes herself out of the equation to save him.

 

 

We had the same theory.  :)  I posted this a few lines earlier, lol.  Great minds and all that. 

 

Anything either Felicity or Oliver do to stall will probably have blow back.  At least this would be a noble reason.   It's something you can roll your eyes at but buy they might legitimately feel is true. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

God Oliver and Laurel are so Not a good couple them being endgame would be disgusting especially with the hints they have dropped about Felicity being the light in his darkness. His HUMANITY is tied to her. Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister and she should never want to be Romatically tied to him.

I missed that you had the same theory BKWurm1 you are right great minds do think alike lol

[statsgirl]

There hasn't been any comment that Oliver/Felicity is OTP but she's the woman he thought of as he was dying, and she's the only one he's said 'I love you 'to, not to mention she was referred to as his light a number of times whereas Laurel is darkness. It's hard to switch permanently from that, no matter what idiocy they may put in there in the meantime.

 

I remember I stopped watching ER in season 9 and Castle in season 4 because I hated the pairings and wasn't interested in anything else on the show. I'd hate to do that for Arrow now..

Edited January 11, 2015 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

I hope if Felicity does reject him they show immediately afterward when she's alone that she ain't happy with what she did

You're Right BKWurm1 that it would invoke a little eyerolling but still noble cause they could just show that she still loves him so much

[Danny Franks]

 

 

• I do think Lauriver might be the end game.  There hasn't been any guarantee of Olicity OTP.  Also, comments were made by Stephen that Felicity was the only woman for Oliver in season 3.  And a lot of the stuff they're doing does forshadow a GA/BC pairing down the road IMO.  

 

I think it probably will be. I can see this all being a sort of 'Felicity is the girl who shows him the light and makes him a better man. The man that Laurel Lance deserves' payoff. 

 

I wouldn't have said that as recently as the summer, but once they killed Sara, showing that they were absolutely set on Laurel being Black Canary, despite all sense dictating she shouldn't, I just don't believe they're going to compromise on any part of their 'vision'. I think they'll have Oliver and Felicity together for a while and then break them up so Felicity can meet some other, minor DC character who is presented as the love of her life, and Oliver can be reunited with the love of his life.

[jay741982]

Danny that would be absolute bullshit if they tried to pull that garbage his last thought was of kissing her. Oliver doesn't deserve to be stuck with that harpy unlikable woman.

[NumberCruncher]

Here's the deal...I don't doubt that the show will get to the correct resolution regarding certain storylines/relationships, but to me, the journey is just as important as the conclusion. So far, this season (except for the crossover) has not been a great journey. I've been hanging in there, wading through all the doom and gloom for something worthwhile and was perfectly willing to hang on through the next 3 episodes for some kind of payoff, so it's not that I'm suddenly up in arms about a single spoiler. This latest Guggenheim soundbite is just the culmination of many frustrations that have been snowballing all season regarding a multitude of storylines.

It's his show and I would never tell him how to write it, but clearly his vision isn't what I'm looking for. He may end up writing the most fabulous resolution to the Lance family drama. He may end up giving Ray a great personality. He may end up making Laurel the most awesomely awesome superhero on TV. He may end up making Olicity the greatest couple to grace the small screen. The rub, however, is the getting there and I don't trust him to not make me hate the show and all of the characters before that happens because his track record frankly sucks.

[apinknightmare]

Edited because:  To clean up my bullets and also because I forgot one:

 

• I do think Lauriver might be the end game.  There hasn't been any guarantee of Olicity OTP.  Also, comments were made by Stephen that Felicity was the only woman for Oliver in season 3.  And a lot of the stuff they're doing does forshadow a GA/BC pairing down the road IMO.  

 

 

Do you mind clarifying? Because I don't think they've done a single thing that indicates that these two will ever get back together again. Is it because GA/BC were a thing in the comics and you think they'll stick with that? 

[Danny Franks]

Danny that would be absolute bullshit if they tried to pull that garbage his last thought was of kissing her. Oliver doesn't deserve to be stuck with that harpy unlikable woman.

 

But the writers obviously don't think of her as unlikeable. They think the fans who don't like her are unreasonable and weird, as far as I can see. Even though they admitted to cocking up her character in season 1, they seem to be operating under the illusion that she's actually great, and people can't wait to see her "kick ass" in a costume.

 

There is so much cognitive dissonance going on between what the fans see and what the writers see, that I feel my scenario is entirely believable as one they would plan and implement.

[wonderwall]

[jay741982]

Well they should listen to fans if the majority can't stand her and thinks the character needs fixed they should fix it. Not shove her down our throats but yeah they seem delusional

[calliope1975]

Here's the deal...I don't doubt that the show will get to the correct resolution regarding certain storylines/relationships, but to me, the journey is just as important as the conclusion. So far, this season (except for the crossover) has not been a great journey. I've been hanging in there, wading through all the doom and gloom for something worthwhile and was perfectly willing to hang on through the next 3 episodes for some kind of payoff, so it's not that I'm suddenly up in arms about a single spoiler. This latest Guggenheim soundbite is just the culmination of many frustrations that have been snowballing all season regarding a multitude of storylines.

 

Yep. If everything else on the show was rolling along nicely, one aspect or character that I didn't like isn't a big deal. I loved 2A. It was fun, engaging, and most importantly, entertaining. Laurel was still there. I don't like the character, and I'm sure I complained about her, but she wasn't ruining the show. It fell apart for me in 2B until the very end. Too dark and depressing, but I thought it came back together at the end. Now in 3A, everyone's out of character, it's grimdark gloom doom, and underdeveloped characters are being pushed to the forefront. I am no longer entertained. 

 

And I could be. The FlArrow crossover was perfect for me. Fun, good action, nice character moments. So I know what this show could be. Olicity might be endgame. But if that endgame is after years of what we're getting now, what's the point? they get together and their entire relationship is off-screen during hiatus or they are literally endgame and not together until the last few episodes, what are they giving me in the meantime? 

 

I don't enjoy being negative about these spoilers or thinking the worst of TPTB. I want to be excited about what's going to happen like I was last summer. I want to tell my friends to watch. I just hope it turns around.

[apinknightmare]

Well they should listen to fans if the majority can't stand her and thinks the character needs fixed they should fix it. Not shove her down our throats but yeah they seem delusional

 

They think people don't like her because she's not BC yet. So, in their minds, they are "fixing" her.