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Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

Challenge accepted.

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jay741982

jay741982

Oh yeah and Felicity is gonna see a new side of him BARF!! I almost forgot his first scenes were with the man he's copying and the woman being used to try to make him likeable and and is being used to help shove him down viewers throats lol

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ban1o

ban1o

(edited)

I don't now if anyone posted about this but Cynthia Addai-Robinson was cast in this ben Affleck film called The Secretay. I wonder if that will mean no more or less Amanda waller (even though she's barely used anyway)

Edited by ban1o
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Danny Franks

Danny Franks

I feel so bad for Willa, wasnt she promised a great storyline for being such a great team player?

 

So you're saying that becoming a brainwashed killer who has the hots for a colossal douchebag DJ, yet still has no agency or relevance other than being the prize that Oliver won't give up to Ra's, isn't a great storyline? For the way women are treated on this show, is it that bad, when it really comes down to it?

 

Honestly, every single thing I read about Arrow this season just makes me think that the showrunners have not got a single clue what they're doing. It's truly staggering that they can be this dumb.

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Ariah

Ariah

Willa can still have a good storyline - if she becomes a double agent, playing Malcolm for Team Arrow.

I'm an overall pessimist, but too much negativity is bad for health :) I'm holding out hope. Besides, David Ramsey said she has important storyline and I believe him.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Willa can still have a good storyline - if she becomes a double agent, playing Malcolm for Team Arrow.

I'm an overall pessimist, but too much negativity is bad for health :) I'm holding out hope. Besides, David Ramsey said she has important storyline and I believe him.

I trust no one, but it's too early to really say with some of these stories. I'm an eternal optimist, so I'm not going to judge yet. This show has been able to surprise me in a good way in the past (multiple times), so...I'm not going to get too down on it yet.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I've said it before but I don't think the ratings will fall that much (if at all).  I've read some comics-related articles out there that are really positive about the upcoming episodes - just the mention of the Black Canary! the Atom! and Ra's al Ghul! seems enough.  It doesn't seem to matter that Laurel is not a martial artist or that Ray won't actually shrink.

 

Even if the ratings fall, it won't affect the show's renewal or the EPs' decision-making (IMO).  Just like Arrow launched The Flash, I think the continuing popularity of The Flash will start to carry Arrow over from year to year because the EPs are building a mini-DC universe on TV.

Edited by tv echo
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Ariah

Ariah

I don't want the ratings to fall ;) But I want a big reaction to this Black Canary the fans are waiting for (apparently). If they're so hyped about it, I wonder if the arc will live up to their expectations.

 

As I couldn't care less for the Canary, I don't feel the hype, but I wonder how those who

a) like Laurel and

b) want this Canary to happen

react to the episodes.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

All the positive comments I've read for the BC arc makes it seem like the people who have been waiting for Laurel to take up the mantle are excited to see her kick ass/be a badass. Which makes me wonder what the reaction to her not being very good at heroing will be, provided MG isn't trolling with that, and whether that will be resolved at the end of her arc and she'll magically be great. If she really does have to find another way (as MG put it), I'm curious to see what that portion of the audience's reaction will be.

If the show otherwise remains enjoyable (and even though I have issues with it, it still has a high entertainment factor for me), I don't think anything BC-related will affect things one way or the other.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

IIRC the photo that Emily posted with Arensel and Laurel in costume was for 3x12. If she goes out and gets her butt handed to her in 3x11, why would they let her back with them? And are any injuries she gets only minor? I'm inclined to think she will be better then we think. Maybe throw some bad punches and flop around a bit, but have a victory at the end of 3x11 & 3x12.

 

I actually think the ratings for 3x10 may be their best post winter break numbers. From what I have seen, the people who really aren't happy with the direction are at least tuning in for reactions. I don't see them maintaining the ratings though, not to say they will drop a whole lot, but its not a strong time anyway and I honestly don't think The Atom is enough to get people to turn in. How popular is this comic character? 

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Yeah, I've seen a lot of positive reaction for Laurel becoming BC but mainly on comic book related websites where the comic book fans tend to hang out. I'm not saying non comic book fans aren't excited about it but I do see more if it coming from those who expect it because of her name. 

 

Mostly I think people are just glad she's got something to do. I'm the same in that way but I think they've gone the wrong way about it. That's a conversation for another thread though.

 

As for the 311 description, I don't really like this idea of 'all suits on deck.' As if that's the only important thing. I'm not liking this implication that you have to wear a suit to be a hero. But I'm trying not to jump to conclusions so I'll leave it at that. Felicity seeing another side of Ray does worry me but I'm not really sure what that even means. We've already been shown that she must find him attractive, likes what he's doing with the company and she knows he has plans to help the city after seeing his ATOM suit. So what other side is there? Color me confused tbh. Other than that…yeah. Not interested. 

Edited by Angel12d
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Chiny11

Chiny11

(edited)

I've said it before but I don't think the ratings will fall that much (if at all). I've read some comics-related articles out there that are really positive about the upcoming episodes - just the mention of the Black Canary! the Atom! and Ra's al Ghul! seems enough. It doesn't seem to matter that Laurel is not a martial artist or that Ray won't actually shrink.

Even if the ratings fall, it won't affect the show's renewal or the EPs' decision-making (IMO). Just like Arrow launched The Flash, I think the continuing popularity of The Flash will start to carry Arrow over from year to year because the EPs are building a mini-DC universe on TV.

I see what you are saying. I guess most of the comic book fans are not really interested in the character relationships on the show (or even character development) .

The big comic book names is what they want to see. Whether they appear from nowhere and with no development, they really do not care. They just want their superheroes and the corresponding superhero action on the screen.

But for viewers like me... Even though I like the superhero action, I am also interested in character development and character relationships.

Edited by Chiny11
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Orion

Orion

(edited)

For every site excited about it there are sites that aren't. The podcast that's linked to in the media thread, I think it's called Run Down?, are so upset they refuse to talk about it and they are comic fans. John Campea and Alan Sipwell (sp) are others that comes to mind. Facebook and twitter have comment after comment against this arc. The link to the promo had 70-85% of comments negative and a lot of those were male.

 

Also it's important to remember that certain sites are paid by clicks and people don't tend to click on, Meh, So This is Happening links.

 

We also know that comic fans aren't enough to hold the ratings, last year when the focus shifted to Laurel, the Lance Family drama, and Felicity/Diggle sidelining ratings dropped to the lowest this show has seen. The highest ratings are ones that feature members of Team Arrow together or independently. We know that the network and the EPs don't think that the comic fans are enough to hold the ratings because they are doing back flips trying to take back the Laurel arc comments and trying to talk up other characters being in those episodes.

 

Could this be success? Yes. But there is just as much evidence that it won't. Things with Laurel tend to never live up to expectations. And once people form an opinion on something, especially negative, it rarely changes in my experience. Someone might learn to tolerate something but they will never truly enjoy it.

 

People that are excited about BC kicking ass  might not appreciate that she's going to struggle. And people that are excited about Laurel finally having something to do might be shocked how wearing a mask does not change the personality and acting ability of the person wearing it.

 

Beyond the BC stuff though, people are unhappy with Arrow in general this season. IMO we are at a tipping point, either story improves (better pacing, character development) or there could be a mass abandonment of the show. We'll see, but something has to change, there are too many options for superhero fans currently and Arrow can't sustain by being the only name in town.

Edited by Orion
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

What's with MG's tweet in the SPOILERS ONLY thread about the Olicity clever hand thing in those pictures from the teaser? Is it because his last thought was kissing Felicity and his hand is in the position it was when he was holding her face?

IT'S OKAY, I'M FINE

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

I thought it looked like he was stretching his hand out like a handshake (for when Felicity joined the team or whatever), but yeah, the kiss face-holding makes more sense.  Maybe Oliver's not 100% dead because his hand is not in the same position in those two photos.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I thought it looked like he was stretching his hand out like a handshake (for when Felicity joined the team or whatever), but yeah, the kiss face-holding makes more sense. Maybe Oliver's not 100% dead because his hand is not in the same position in those two photos.

Yeah, he's still pliable. There's hope!

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looptab

looptab

(edited)

Can we have Oliver hallucinating while he is between life and death??please!!

P.S. To me it looks like his hand is reaching for something/someone..

I'll stop now. :)

Edited by looptab
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Angel12d

Angel12d

What's with MG's tweet in the SPOILERS ONLY thread about the Olicity clever hand thing in those pictures from the teaser? Is it because his last thought was kissing Felicity and his hand is in the position it was when he was holding her face?

IT'S OKAY, I'M FINE

 

I can only think that we'll see a lingering shot of Felicity's hand and then cut to Oliver's hand like that and I AM NOT OKAY.

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looptab

looptab

How funny would it be if we got more Olicity while they're not even in the same place-maybe 'life'? -.-

Not funny at all of course but now I'm having Lost flashbacks and demanding something a la Desmond and Penny and the constant and gahhh

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

I read a story where while Oliver is in the Pit he hallucinates talking to Felicity. I think I'd prefer flashbacks to scenes we missed during those five months of happiness. But I'd take anything.

Edited by BkWurm1
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calliope1975

calliope1975

I'm a bit confused by the hand comment and what it could mean. Gah, it's a bit sad that all I might have to look forward to is a brief hand shot. This is what you've reduced me to, Show! 

 

I read a story where while Oliver is in the Pit he hallucinates talking to Felicity. I think I'd prefer flashbacks to scenes we missed during those five months of happiness. But I'd take anything.

 

I would forgive the EPs a lot if we got summer 2014 flashbacks. I'm even okay throwing Roy in there and showing how they all gelled as a team. I'd rather that than the Hong Kong flashbacks.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I'm a bit confused by the hand comment and what it could mean. Gah, it's a bit sad that all I might have to look forward to is a brief hand shot. This is what you've reduced me to, Show!

I think it's just a call back to Oliver's last thought being of kissing Felicity-his hand is in the same position it was when he was holding her face.

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chaos is welcome

chaos is welcome

Can we have Oliver hallucinating while he is between life and death??please!!

P.S. To me it looks like his hand is reaching for something/someone..

I'll stop now. :)

It made me think of 3 ghosts, when Oliver is reaching for shado and felicity is in the direction he's reaching for. But I won't be holding my breath.
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I'm  holding on to the hope that "Felicity sees another side of Ray" is just a way to get Felicity's name into the episode description so people will tune in for her.

 

Glen Winter is one of their best directors (and a producer for the Flash IIRC) so I'm interested to see what he's got in mind.

 

I think I could forgive MG the Canary quartet if we got to see Oliver hallucinating about Felicity and she dreaming about him, even better flashbacks to the summer. SA did say we'd only see Oliver in flashbacks in 2 episodes.  It would keep them on their idiotic real timeline (which is now hurting the show more than it helps) and it would give us what we missed over the summer.

 

 

 

People that are excited about BC kicking ass  might not appreciate that she's going to struggle. And people that are excited about Laurel finally having something to do might be shocked how wearing a mask does not change the personality and acting ability of the person wearing it.

 

Beyond the BC stuff though, people are unhappy with Arrow in general this season. IMO we are at a tipping point, either story improves (better pacing, character development) or there could be a mass abandonment of the show. We'll see, but something has to change, there are too many options for superhero fans currently and Arrow can't sustain by being the only name in town.

It's interesting that it all comes down to good storytelling.  Some people want Laurel as the Black Canary last season, others don't buy that she should be it.  The only way to get both groups to watch is to make the story believable and good.

 

I think the creation of three new superheroes this season along with the killing of Sara has really weakened the show because it's diluted what we watch for.

 

I don't think it's just because The Flash is lighter and newer that it's pulling in better ratings than Arrow, I think it's also because there's more heart there.

 

Even if the ratings fall, it won't affect the show's renewal or the EPs' decision-making (IMO).  Just like Arrow launched The Flash, I think the continuing popularity of The Flash will start to carry Arrow over from year to year because the EPs are building a mini-DC universe on TV.

They're pretty sure of a season 4, and if ratings fall, they may just use Arrow to launch other comic books shows like The Atom.  It would be a shame to see the show brought down like that, but it's more than possible.

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

Do you think it will be revealed in the episode who saves Oliver? Or will they drag it out? Maybe it is Malcolm and he really keeps Oliver hidden because he believes once he tells Thea that the whole family is in danger they can all stay in this hiding place with healed Oliver. Oliver might feel inclined to go along with it to protect his sister... I don't know, just a wacky thought with several plot holes.

 

So from that new description (which I could probably rant about if I weren't so disheartened by now. It doesn't even surprise me anymore that I find it so unappealing) there won't be a time jump, or am I reading it wrong? In 3x10 Oliver will have been gone for 3 days, then a week or so passes between 3x10 and 3x11. Or is it supposed to be a longer time?

 

Well, I still have one last rant in me: Why would Laurel not think of her father and how her death might affect him if she is out there being a badass vigilante? She goes out there to 'save' the city because she thinks she can. That is just stupid (which admittedly is a constant character trait) Why would she think she is capable? Why? And what about Lance's heart? She only cares about that when it fits the storyline apparently. It will be a long 3-4 episodes.

Edited by Belinea
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Arrow, no. That show is becoming less and less about Oliver's journey into becoming Green Arrow. Even Laurel who has done nothing at all for 3 seasons gets her unearned comic name before him....

It's like if the pre-island Oliver had put on the mask & costume, went out at night as a vigilante and called himself the Green Arrow right away, without ever going through those 5+ years of experiences and fight training.  

Edited by tv echo
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jay741982

jay741982

You think MG would get it! Diggle and Felicity are very popular and it sounds like he is shoving Laurel Ray and Roy down our throats when since Oliver is "Dead" more focus should be on Diggle Felicity and Thea the three most important people to him. Why would the fans enjoy that MG?

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Chaser

Chaser

 So the EP says that she will be the worst fighter of the bunch, not everthing lands, etc...she will have to find another way.  That kinda implies she steps back from the 'action' role right? But I don't think they would do that. I'm wondering if its something as simple as she realizes she can't do it her way i.e. alone and joins the others i.e. Team Arrow.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Here's a wild - and probably incorrect - thought:  what if tv show producers are so spooked by the recent way the Big Bang Theory stars essentially held that show hostage in order to get their million dollar per episode paydays that they now go out of their way to make sure that no one actor or character is considered indispensable?  Hence, removing Oliver from several episodes is a good way of testing the viability of continuing the show in the future without Oliver if SA ever tries to renegotiate his contract.  Stupid, I know, for a show called Arrow.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

History has shown that Guggenheim never accurately represents anything, so I'm going to go with "no."  :) 

 

It's not like there's going to be 40 straight minutes of Laurel. Even her "centric" eps last season (and "Sara" in this season) have had a pretty fair amount of other players involved. The chances of more Diggle and Felicity are even higher without Oliver around to take up story time. So, he's a troll, but it's not like they won't be in the eps. Will they be in them working as a team the way most of us would probably like? That's another story, since Felicity will be all...whatever with Ray, I'm sure.

  • Love 3
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

Here's a wild - and probably incorrect - thought: what if tv show producers are so spooked by the recent way the Big Bang Theory stars essentially held that show hostage in order to get their million dollar per episode paydays that they now go out of their way to make sure that no one actor or character is considered indispensable? Hence, removing Oliver from several episodes is a good way of testing the viability of continuing the show in the future without Oliver if SA ever tries to renegotiate his contract. Stupid, I know, for a show called Arrow.

Sure if they were on one of the big 4.. This is a CW show, the actors are just happy to be working at all. A paycheck strike is unlikely to ever happen on Arrow (or any CW show), the only other show i know of that ever did it was the Friends cast. Paycheck strikes are really rare! It takes massive egos and a well organized cast to pull it off - the egos are a dime in a dozen, the well organized cast is trickier, i also think it only works on shows where each and every character is indispensable!! (Not the case on arrow), also having a show in the top 10 helps (really not the case on arrow)

Edited by foreverevolving
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Also helps it being a comedy because actors on those shows get paid a lot more.

 

 

Will they be in them working as a team the way most of us would probably like? That's another story, since Felicity will be all...whatever with Ray, I'm sure.

Will they be there with their own stories, or will they be there to prop Laurel and Ray?  MG probably thinks it doesn't matter, as long as they're on screen, even if they have barely anything to say as in 2B, he'll still consider them on the show.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

So I guess this means MG could also characterize the upcoming three episodes as fern-centric if the fern appears in every Arrowcave scene?

Edited by tv echo
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