Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Chaser]

I'm trying to figure out 3x14 because we have flashbacks with Tommy/Thea and Tommy/Laurel for sure, but we also have Slade coming back. I'm thinking Laurel and Thea have a mirror stroyline in the City (to lay the ground work for the big showdown) and the O3 head to Landmine Island for a seperate arc about so-and-so. Or I may have the spoilers all mixed up (Please correct me if need be).

Edited December 22, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[dtissagirl]

At least based on the pap pictures, it looked like Willa filmed her scene alone, and then Colin and KC filmed their scene separately. My guess is these will be intercut with Bad Wig Oliver looking in on them all sullen and all, unable to make contact with them because ~reasons.

[DrSpaceman10]

I'm trying to figure out 3x14 because we have flashbacks with Tommy/Thea and Tommy/Laurel for sure, but we also have Slade coming back. I'm thinking Laurel and Thea have a mirror stroyline in the City (to lay the ground work for the big showdown) and the O3 head to Landmine Island for a seperate arc about so-and-so. Or I may have the spoilers all mixed up (Please correct me if need be).

 

I found this pic of Willa on her instagram, it looks like she might be filming in Slade's prison. I'm not sure which thread to put this in, since it's not technically a spoiler...

 

[KirkB]

Maybe Malcolm has Thea release Slade because...why not?

[calliope1975]

Maybe Malcolm has Thea release Slade because...why not?

 

That's so random; I can totally see it. And Slade would be all, hey sorry I murdered your mother, and Brainwashed!Thea would be all whatevs. Even Slade would be think that was weird and disconcerting. I can't see him wanting to be beholden to Merlyn, though.

[Chaser]

Maybe Slade could drop some Truth Bombs on Thea the way he did on Oliver

[Kordi]

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't 3x14 "The Return" supposed to be a flash-back centric/ flash-back heavy episode like 1x14 "The Odyssey" and 2x15 "The Promise"? My speculation is that it will be all about Oliver coming back to Starling City (together with Maseo) in secret and shadowing/watching his family and friends: We are going to see how Thea dealt with loosing Oliver and her (step)father Robert and how Tommy bonded (hooked up?) with Laurel. And maybe even Slade is going to appear in these flashbacks. As far as I remember, Manu Bennett mentioned during a panel of a con that Slade left the island swimming (all under the influence of the Mirakuru). So it could very well be that we see him in Starling City five years ago. Maybe back than he tried for the first time to take revenge on Oliver's family? And Oliver stopped him and thought that he finally killed him? (This would be a parallel with Sara: In season 2, Oliver knew that she had survived the first shipwreck, but thought that she had died later on the island, so he was genuinely surprised to meet hear again in present time Starling City).

Edited December 22, 2014 by Kordi

[Kordi]

Thematically speaking, the one thing Oliver can bring to the table that no one else can is probably going to be a real passion for the city [...],

My response to this is in the thread "Hopes and Fears: How will we survive this island?"

 

ETA: Finally, I moved it to the "Oliver Queen" thread... so many possibilities... it's hard to decide ;-) !

Edited December 23, 2014 by Kordi

[TanyaKay]

That's so random; I can totally see it. And Slade would be all, hey sorry I murdered your mother, and Brainwashed!Thea would be all whatevs. Even Slade would be think that was weird and disconcerting. I can't see him wanting to be beholden to Merlyn, though.

 

Hey, Laurel tried to put Moira away for life under a plea bargain or death sentence in case she does not plea guilty (which Moira did not) in episode 2x07. Two weeks later in episode 2x09, Thea went to Laurel for help looking into Sin's friend absence/abduction like it is all good and the woman who tried to put your mom to either gallows or a life in prison is the most trust worthy friend you can think of to help you. I screamed at Thea's lack of discretion then and she did not even have the excuse of brain washing South American herbs.

 

If she was okay with Laurel and then Oliver dating the sister of the woman who tried to send her mother to gallows then she can also forgive Slade Wilson for actually killing her mother because you know, he was all mirakuru-ed and stuff.

[statsgirl]

Not to mention, Thea was on the amnesia drug when she killed Sara (if she actually did). So while I find it hard to believe she could forgive Slade, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on in terms of drugs and killing.

[TanyaKay]

A couple of seconds spoilers came out via NZ promo. Looks like Malcolm is in the foundry and he is giving the Team news of Oliver's death.

[calliope1975]

I'm going to need more than Malcolm's word for Team Arrow to believe he's dead. They should know he lies about lying. 

 

Also, my enthusiasm level is at an all time low, and I can't even think of what they could spoil to bring me back until Oliver returns. Unless it's Digg, Felicity, Roy, Donna Smoak, and Quentin hanging out playing with Baby Sara.

[writersblock51]

The NZ trailer definitely looks like Malcolm is the one delivering the news of Oliver's 'death' to TA and giving them something of Oliver's (an arrow?).

 

How would Malcolm know?  I hope Diggle or Felicity, or heck, even Roy, ask him that.  They know he was involved with Thea killing Sarah, so I would hope the team would treat anything Malcolm has to say with a massive dose of skepticism.

 

I still think Malcolm is behind ALL of this.  To save himself.

[TanyaKay]

The NZ trailer definitely looks like Malcolm is the one delivering the news of Oliver's 'death' to TA and giving them something of Oliver's (an arrow?).

 

I think he is giving them the sword with Oliver's blood as DNA evidence. He is playing some kinda game here like he always do.

I am not really interested in Malcolm after 3x09 but I would really like this scene if either Diggle or Felicity kick him out of the foundry because they hate his lying guts.

[Orion]

So now every big bad from all seasons has managed to get into the Arrow-cave (Slade, the LOA, and now Malcolm) plus Captain Boomerang. Can we please start looking for another location or at least get better locks on the foundry doors, show?

[statsgirl]

I figure there is a flashing neon sign "This way to the Arrow Cave".  Or there's a Big Bad Handbook with directions.

 

I want to see  how Diggle and Felicity react to Oliver dying.  Who takes charge? How do they handle it, by mourning or by using grief to propel them further into Oliver's crusade to honor him?

 

Other than that, there's nothing much I'm interested in till Slade gets there in 3x14, and I'm not even sure about that since it's going to be a flashback episode.  I know nothing much will happen with Merlyn for the next few episodes.   I don't mind Roy but I'm surprised at how little interest I have in seeing what's up with him, Thea, Ray and Laurel while Oliver is gone and/or insane.

[Orion]

Isn't it flashback Slade? I was assuming it was because I didn't see the gray hair at his temples that he had in current day Starling.

[Morrigan2575]

I saw grey in the Slade/Santa picture

Edited December 23, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

Didn't Oliver think that Slade was dead?  I thought when the mirakuru first surfaced in Starling City, he said that everyone who had been injected by Ivo's serum was dead.

 

Would Slade have gone to Starling City on his own, checked out the place and Oliver's family, and then disappeared to be a mercenary and make lots of money so he could carry out his revenge on Oliver?  But that doesn't make sense either because how could he know that Oliver had survived the sinking of the Amazo?

[ban1o]

Is that Roy running in the tunnel? I'm watching it on my phone and can't see it clearly

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yeah, it's Roy.

[TanyaKay]

No hair dye for Slade in Lian Yu.

[BkWurm1]

Just have to say that shot of I guess Roy running in the tunnel is like nothing I've seen before. It looks amazing.

[Velocity23]

Aww where is BuckleCanary in the promos.

[Belinea]

She is still busy fastening the buckles correctly.... 

 

So who saves Oliver? Malcolm or Maseo? Malcolm is obviously there and takes the sword. Does he also help Oliver? Why would he help him and then tell the others he died? I really do hope that MM does not brainwash him (if he is indeed his savior). One bad 'brainwash' story is enough for me. MM would have to gain something by helping Oliver and not telling the rest. Didn't SA say that MM is not evil (I can't remember the exact words, he said it on the aftershow) so there has to be a reason why he thinks that, correct? Or maybe he just doesn't find him evil in a general sense.

 

Well, it still could be Maseo. There has to be a reason why he was there with them. (Or maybe I am just reading too much into unexplained storytelling) But wouldn't the League notice if he stays behind? Maybe his responsibility is taking care of the body? 

 

I have to say that storyline at this point is still the one to pull me in. How does Oliver cheat death and who helps him....

 

BTW: Poor Felicity. From the look of the promo she is alone when Malcolm drops of the sword. It could also be the editing but I still feel for her 

Edited December 23, 2014 by Belinea

[Ariah]

I was thinking it's going to be Malcolm bringing in the news: Barrowman said he was on the mountain, so he did collect the sword and present it to the Team Arrow-less. Actually, I was even about to write a short fiction about it... But now probably everyone will do it.

 

As for Malcolm's credibility and "casual relationship with the truth" - perhaps he did another one of his home videos? ("Here's the zoom on the wound, you can see it isn't pretty...")

 

So, there are two options now I can see:

1. Either Malcolm trully believes Oliver's dead and it's someone else who saves the Arrow and nurses him back to health...

2. Or Malcolm stashes Oliver somewhere, pumps him full of brainwashing herbs, calls him "Tommy" and goes on with his version of a happy family. Actually, now that I've said it, I kind of think it's the route those writers can take...

[Belinea]

 

Malcolm stashes Oliver somewhere, pumps him full of brainwashing herbs, calls him "Tommy" and goes on with his version of a happy family. Actually, now that I've said it, I kind of think it's the route those writers can take...

Oh God! That really sounds like something the writers could actually do...And it would give a whole new meaning to 'Oliver Queen is dead'. 

[apinknightmare]

What if he does have video, ugh. Video plus the sword...I don't know. I hate that anyone would believe him without a body for evidence, but I can see why maybe with that kind of evidence they would. Not that anyone SHOULD believe him...I'm just really interested to see how that plays out.

If it was Malcolm that found him, did someone from the League not go to collect him (please let Maseo or Nyssa be the one who finds him on that cliff, please)? Will whoever goes to get him (if someone from the League does go to get him) dare to lie to Ra's, or tell him that he's gone? DOES NO ONE NEED A BODY ANYMORE? JAYSUS

Also, if Malcolm is involved, I suspect we're going to get a brainwashed Oliver, or Malcolm attempting to brainwash Oliver and it not working because of magical mountain herbs or whatever. Because I just don't see a reason why Malcolm would bother nursing him back to health to be OQ - after being run through by Ra's, it'd probably be difficult for him to convince Oliver to do his bidding re: the League anymore, unless Oliver's non-death puts Thea at risk since no one "paid" for Sara's death? In which case I guess it would make sense for Malcolm to keep him off the radar for a bit, thus lying to TA about Oliver being dead.

I don't know what's going on is what I'm saying. This is basically thought vomit, because it's early and I haven't had coffee yet.

Edited December 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[SleepDeprived]

I think the person on the mountain looking at Oliver, who may be his possible savior, has a quiver of arrows strapped to his back? The gifs are a little dark but it looks like there's something on his back... Which doesn't really help in trying to figure out their identity since Maseo, Malcolm, and most of the LOA archers strap on quivers of arrows when in their uniform, anyway. Heh.

 

Is Roy getting shot at in the tunnel? It looks like he's trying to protect himself from whatever those sparks are all around him.

 

I'm trying to keep my irrational anger at bay but I have a bad feeling about what I think might happen when Team Arrow learns about Oliver's death from Malcolm. I feel like the show will be writing to plot (to mine all that angst, of course) and have Felicity and Diggle believing Malcolm's declaration, with very little pushback, when Felicity and Diggle, especially, are the two characters who ought to insist on seeing the body before believing anything that comes out of Malcolm's mouth. Even if he presents them with the sword drenched in Oliver's blood. I don't care if he has additional video evidence, too. Actual cold, dead body of Oliver Queen or gtfo of the Arrow foundry, Malcolm! Gah!

 

I hope I'm wrong and Team Arrow doesn't readily accept that Oliver's dead-dead with just Malcolm's word and a bloody sword. I know MG said that Felicity won't be looking (because "she knows where he is and where he isn't," damn troll) but there just has to be a scene of Diggle and Felicity actually trying to search for Oliver to prove that he's dead/not dead before they really, truly believe that their partner is gone. Augh. It sucks that I can't trust in my favorite characters' developments with these writers at the helm.

[Soulfire]

Considering the show’s Batman boner and them saying they’re using an older representation of Ra’s more true to the comics, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s Nyssa who rescues Oliver somehow. (I just don't want it to be the most obvious choice: Malcolm.)

 

I feel like the show will be writing to plot (to mine all that angst, of course) and have Felicity and Diggle believing Malcolm's declaration, with very little pushback, when Felicity and Diggle, especially, are the two characters who ought to insist on seeing the body before believing anything that comes out of Malcolm's mouth.

 

I fear this too. If they have Felicity and Diggle believing Malcolm with little research of their own put into it? It'll be like a big middle finger to their characters -- and will also strengthen how much they're writing to plot this season at the expense of the characters. I'll try hoping for better and see how it all shakes out but this season's making it hard to be optimistic...

Edited December 23, 2014 by Soulfire

[Ariah]

Well, they can go the route of Malcolm being the first to bring the news, the Team does not believe that due to Malcolm not being the most trustworthy person around, but at the end of the episode something happens that convinces the team Oliver is trully dead.

 

It may be Nyssa arriving in the Foundry (unaware that Malcolm already did the deed), it may be ARGUS confirming the kill on satelite feed, it may be a cofin with Oliver's body inside...

 

And then, the closing shot of the episode will show Oliver still alive, being nursed back to health... by someone mysterious.

 

This would give us:

a) team Arrow not fully guilable

b) a moment of disbelief that they really killed Oliver Queen (for real!)

c) relief that he's alive and will come back eventually, so that people will not turn away from the tv immediatelly.

d) mystery for 3B prime, as to who is nursing Oliver back...

[apinknightmare]

I hope I'm wrong and Team Arrow doesn't readily accept that Oliver's dead-dead with just Malcolm's word and a bloody sword. I know MG said that Felicity won't be looking (because "she knows where he is and where he isn't," damn troll) but there just has to be a scene of Diggle and Felicity actually trying to search for Oliver to prove that he's dead/not dead before they really, truly believe that their partner is gone. Augh. It sucks that I can't trust in my favorite characters' developments with these writers at the helm.

But at the end of the search, they still won't have a body, so will a search be satisfactory? Unless there is some weird way they could find a body, which seems...well, impossible. I wonder who's going to doubt that Oliver's dead?

I'm trying not to get too worked up over it, because I'm expecting them to eventually accept it for dramatic reasons, otherwise what would be the point of the show "killing" him at all? Unless Oliver has a doppleganger out there, the team's never going to have a body, so...

[Velocity23]

I am guessing they gonna go with Olivers DNA/blood on the sword.

[apinknightmare]

I am guessing they gonna go with Olivers DNA/blood on the sword.

Yeah, I think so too. Doesn't make sense that F&D would go for it without a body, but they're not going to get a body. I just want to be entertained, so if they entertain me, I'll buy into it for reasons (I do occasionally find angsty dramz entertaining, especially since I know Oliver isn't dead).

Edited December 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Belinea]

Maybe Thea will doubt he is dead... Maybe they tell her and she is not sure Malcom is telling the truth. Or maybe Diggle. Did they spoiler exclude Diggle and Felicity? I'd be somewhat upset if Laurel and Roy are the ones who doubt he is dead. Just like a stubborn child I'd be like "Why?! Why them?!"

 

And just a crazy thought that came to my mind (one that no one should/has to take seriously) They wouldn't have a flashback to the goodbye and have Felicity saying to Oliver: I don't want to be a woman you love...", would they? Meaning, he turns to leave and she then runs after him a moment later and we just did not see it yet. I was just trying to figure out how that quote fits and my mind came up with this. Stupid mind :-) 

 

And maybe 3x14 title actually refers to the return to Starling City after 2 years. Maybe...

Edited December 23, 2014 by Belinea

[SleepDeprived]

But at the end of the search, they still won't have a body, so will a search be satisfactory? Unless there is some weird way they could find a body, which seems...well, impossible. I wonder who's going to doubt that Oliver's dead?

 

If they have Roy or Laurel (in her bones) be the ones doubting Oliver is dead, I will hurl my phone hard (at the plush carpet because I don't want it to break). But I will throw it very angrily. There may be expletives involved.

 

But yeah, actually. Since I know they, probably, won't find a body, I would be somewhat placated if we're shown that Team Arrow expended some energy, for at least one episode, in trying to search for Oliver and finding out for themselves if he really is dead. I could go with Ariah's scenario of the Team trying but failing to find closure (that actual dead body) before giving in fully to that grief and carrying on with Team Arrow's mission of saving the city. At least then, there wouldn't be a sense of the Team just giving up on Oliver, on the words of a lying liar who lies, even though they all knew how bleak things were for him going into the duel.

 

But with MG's comments of Team Arrow hearing the news from a person who makes sense and that they (or Felicity, specifically) won't be looking for him, I'm just getting a very bad vibe that either one of them or both Diggle and Felicity will be shown as readily believing the news based on Malcolm's word alone (plus that bloody sword, I guess). That's really what I'm worried about. Because I know that there has to be dramatic payoff for Oliver's "death" so I'm sure the Team will come to believe it's true and they'll be grieving. But I'm afraid that the show will sacrifice the characters' organic inclinations of trying to find their partner against all odds. That the show will end up skipping most of the DABDA process in order to get straight to teh plot points of having the Team moving on (with Arsenal/Black Canary/A.T.O.M.) without Oliver/Arrow.

 

Like I said, I'm trying not to give in to irrational anger over speculations since we know so very little. The really juicy bits probably won't come until a week or so closer to the show's return. I hope the upcoming episodes will be entertaining and will make sense as to how Team Arrow reacts and carries on without their namesake. I do wish I trusted the Arrow writers more but I just don't.

[KirkB]

Who are the most likely candidates to tell Team Arrow about Oliver's 'death'?

 

Malcolm

Nyssa

Ra's

Maseo

 

Who would they most likely believe?

 

Nyssa or Ra's.

 

Even if Malcolm shows up in the World's Best Known Secret Hideout with video of the fight and a sword on which were Ra's al Ghul's fingerprints and Oliver Queen's blood I can't see them just believing him outright. Why? In a previous plot point just an episode or so before was the whole thing with Malcolm having Oliver's DNA to spread around. Now if he actually had Oliver's body that would obviously be that, and I wouldn't put it past Malcolm or this show to have him find a person who looked like Oliver and somehow swap his blood with some of Oliver's to 'prove' it was him. But unless they go that route I think it's more likely either Nyssa or Ra's will arrive at the WBKSH to tell the team the debt is paid and the Arrow is no more, though there will still be doubt without a body but they would probably know enough about Ra's to know he wouldn't bother lying to them. Then in the last scene we see Oliver somewhere being tended to, probably by Katana or someone we really wouldn't expect, like Tommy or Sara.

[Ariah]

 

in the last scene we see Oliver somewhere being tended to, probably by Katana or someone we really wouldn't expect, like Tommy or Sara.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

But I think we'll not see the rescuer, but the show cultivate the mystery - and share some clues each episode ;)

[quarks]

Hee. I see that "I don't want to be a woman you love" will be driving everyone crazy for the next few weeks.

 

Here's the possibilities as I see them:

 

1. It's a sarcastic line, delivered right after one of the guys or Nyssa says something about what they do on a date/what they think about women: Felicity, Laurel or Thea or even Roy immediately respond with "I don't want to be a woman _you_ love."

 

2. It's one of the bad guys, with "I don't want to be a woman you love - because she, she will most certainly suffer."  (I can see either Malcolm or Slade delivering this in a totally over the top manner.)

 

3. It's Thea to that DJ, because nobody, even a brainwashed Thea, wants to be a woman that guy loves.  This is almost certainly just me projecting but leave me with my hopes.

 

4. It's Thea after she finds out that Malcolm brainwashed her; the problem is that although it's the right emotional tone for that, the words don't seem to quite fit the situation.

 

5. It's Laurel to Tommy, turning him down in the flashbacks. That would actually fit the vague timeline we were given in for their relationship while Oliver was on the island, and I can see Laurel saying this - it's very close to what she said to him in the early episodes.  The only problem is that generally when Guggenheim quotes dialogue bits without naming the character, it's almost always Felicity or Oliver, not Laurel.

 

6. It's Felicity to Ray, presumably delivered very sarcastically after he's said something about the smallness of his equipment, followed by Ray saying something like "Yeah, that came out wrong."

 

7. It's Felicity to Oliver after his return, focusing on their partnership:  "I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be a woman who fights with you." (Or something like that - more or less what she said at the mansion last season.)

 

8. It's Felicity to Oliver, after his return, since this time, it's her turn to break up with him. Something like:  "I don't want to be a woman you love - because that woman? That woman makes you vulnerable. That woman got you killed. And I can't go through that again."

 

9. It's a pizza delivery person watching someone eat pizza and shuddering at what this reveals about his tongue technique. 

 

Or maybe not.

[Velocity23]

I have another one. Its flashback Dinah to Quentin. And then she moves to Central City.

[Orion]

I'll add my two guesses on the woman you love line.

 

Felicity to Oliver when he gets back.  "I don't want to be a woman you love because loosing you hurt to much."

 

Laurel to Oliver after Oliver finds out she's been playing dress up. Oliver, "You know I love and care about you Laurel, I don't want this life for you." Laurel, "I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be a fighter. Now let me go save the city after I do up my buckles. Give me 45 minutes."

[apinknightmare]

I'll add my two guesses on the woman you love line.

Felicity to Oliver when he gets back. "I don't want to be a woman you love because loosing you hurt to much."

Laurel to Oliver after Oliver finds out she's been playing dress up. Oliver, "You know I love and care about you Laurel, I don't want this life for you." Laurel, "I don't want to be a woman you love. I want to be a fighter. Now let me go save the city after I do up my buckles. Give me 45 minutes."

Put me in the camp of thinking it's Laurel to Oliver regarding some Buckle disagreement.

If it is Felicity to Oliver, I hope he replies with you're THE woman I love or something equally knee-weakening (since I'm a sucker for things like that).

[statsgirl]

I know I'm going to be so disappointed when I hear the actual line on the show because these scenarios?  So much better.

 

The real Diggle and Felicity (not the ones who are plot contrivances) should believe neither the sword evidence or a video.  How many times has Oliver been wounded by a sword?  Not to mention, this is the Malcolm Merlyn who put Oliver's sweat on the arrows that killed Sara.  (How did he do that?  Did he have Oliver's sweat stored up from season 1, just in case?)  Nor should they believe a video unless it's Oliver on an autopsy table with his guts spilling out and even then they should suspect it was faked. 

 

I could see Arsenal and Buckle Canary off defending the city if Diggle were away looking for Oliver.  Even if they don't end up finding him (although I really hope they do, at the end of 312), at least they would be true to the characters.

 

If I were writing, I'd have Felicity and Diggle believe that Oliver is dead, thus giving the audience scenes of their reactions and EBR and DR scenes for their supporting actor Emmy submission), and then at the end of the episode, finding out that the body they were told about isn't Oliver's, and told where he is.  Felicity stops looking for him (because she knows where Oliver is and where he isn't) and  Diggle leaves to get him back while Felicity holds Laurel's and Roy's hands.... er run tech support for BC and Arsenal.  But it probably won't happen because MG will think of something much more clever [/sarcasm]. 

 

2. Or Malcolm stashes Oliver somewhere, pumps him full of brainwashing herbs, calls him "Tommy" and goes on with his version of a happy family. Actually, now that I've said it, I kind of think it's the route those writers can take...

 

That's the fic you should write. And send it to Barrowman, I bet he'd love the idea.

[apinknightmare]

I know I'm going to be so disappointed when I hear the actual line on the show because these scenarios? So much better.

The real Diggle and Felicity (not the ones who are plot contrivances) should believe neither the sword evidence or a video. How many times has Oliver been wounded by a sword? Not to mention, this is the Malcolm Merlyn who put Oliver's sweat on the arrows that killed Sara. (How did he do that? Did he have Oliver's sweat stored up from season 1, just in case?) Nor should they believe a video unless it's Oliver on an autopsy table with his guts spilling out and even then they should suspect it was faked.

How many times has Oliver survived being run through and then kicked off the side of a cliff? This will probably be the first and IF there is a video, I wouldn't fault Diggle or Felicity for buying it. That was brutal. They're going to believe he's dead without a body, so I guess that would be a preferred way for it to play out as far as I'm concerned.

I'll wait to see what actually plays out before I judge.

Edited December 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Ariah]

There are so many ways the Team Arrow could doubt Merlyn's word that I'm inclined to believe that the whole 3.10 will be devoted to them trying to prove Merlyn wrong - only to have a third party barge in with hard evidence.

 

If I were a writer I'd construct this episode putting an equality mark between the Team Arrow's attitute and the audience - not trusting Malcolm, believing that Oliver is alive. In the course of the episode, more and more evidence would point to the fact that Oliver is dead for real.

 

And by the end of the episode, Team Arrow will accept this fact, albeit with grief.

But the audience would be treated to a scene of barely alive Oliver, slowly getting better - because ending the episode with the audience convinced the main character is dead would result in a major drop of ratings (I, for one, would not tune in for the next episode, even though i love Felicity and Diggle).

 

- - -

 

Now for another thing... Don't you think it would be hilarious, having Slade back before it is disclosed that Oliver is alive? Imagine: Slade is back, bent on fulfilling his promise... and then he learns from Felicity that Oliver Queen is dead. Too late.

 

Would Slade turn against the person responsible for Oliver's demise? ("You've killed my friend, whom I was supposed to kill. Now you will suffer.")

[statsgirl]

Oliver stabbed Malcolm Merlyn through the heart and he survived.  He told Diggle and Felicity that Sara was dead, and she wasn't.  He told them that everyone injected with Ivo's mirakuru had died but Slade survived.  Felicity spent five years feeling guilty that Cooper had died because of her but he hadn't.

 

If anyone knows footage can be faked, it's Felicity.  I will be very disappointed if Diggle and Felicity just accept Oliver is dead because Malcolm says so.

 

 

But the audience would be treated to a scene of barely alive Oliver, slowly getting better - because ending the episode with the audience convinced the main character is dead would result in a major drop of ratings (I, for one, would not tune in for the next episode, even though i love Felicity and Diggle).

There are two episodes that Oliver is in only in flashbacks.  We've been assuming that they are 3x10 and  3x11 but maybe they're 3x11 and 3x12.  That would solve the problem of Diggle and Felicity thinking he's dead, while the audience knows he's alive.

 

If Buckle Canary is the person who is convinced he's still alive, I will consider going to Guggenheim and throwing things at him in person.  Ditto Thea, who I don't think really deserves to be Oliver's closest person at this point, given how she's treated him lately.

 

 

Now for another thing... Don't you think it would be hilarious, having Slade back before it is disclosed that Oliver is alive? Imagine: Slade is back, bent on fulfilling his promise... and then he learns from Felicity that Oliver Queen is dead. Too late.

 

Would Slade turn against the person responsible for Oliver's demise? ("You've killed my friend, whom I was supposed to kill. Now you will suffer.")

That would be hilarious.  But we see Oliver in 3x12, and Slade only arrives with 3x14.  I won't be happy if 3x13 is all about Buckle Canary and I don't even get to see how Diggle and Felicity react to Oliver being alive.

[KirkB]

That would be hysterical. Malcolm setting up Oliver to get both him and the League off his back, only to have Slade end up after him. And Dark Archer vs Deathstroke would be an interesting fight to watch.

[Belinea]

And by the end of the episode, Team Arrow will accept this fact, albeit with grief.

But the audience would be treated to a scene of barely alive Oliver, slowly getting better - because ending the episode with the audience convinced the main character is dead would result in a major drop of ratings (I, for one, would not tune in for the next episode, even though i love Felicity and Diggle).

 

I really like this theory. It would make sense and give the viewers more reason to tune in. As this is a smart theory and makes sense for the story I am somewhat convinced the writers won't do it. I think they will milk the dead Oliver storyline as long as possible. They probably think that it is exciting and mysterious. But if it actually goes down like this I'd be more than happy. :)

Edited December 23, 2014 by Belinea

[apinknightmare]

Oliver stabbed Malcolm Merlyn through the heart and he survived.  He told Diggle and Felicity that Sara was dead, and she wasn't.  He told them that everyone injected with Ivo's mirakuru had died but Slade survived.  Felicity spent five years feeling guilty that Cooper had died because of her but he hadn't.

 

If anyone knows footage can be faked, it's Felicity.  I will be very disappointed if Diggle and Felicity just accept Oliver is dead because Malcolm says so.

 

Malcolm has the sword that "killed" Oliver, so he was near the mountain at some point - if he has footage of Oliver being stabbed through the side, coughing up blood and then being pushed off the cliff, it wouldn't be fake. So, Felicity sees that, checks the validity of the video which is real, and...then what? Are she and Diggle stupid for believing that? I mean, there's going to be suspension of belief because there's not going to be a body regardless of whatever scenario the show comes up with. Is there anything that's going to be satisfactory without them having a body? All I'm saying is that non-fake footage of a gruesome looking death? I wouldn't blame them, personally. 

 

I'm not going to get pre-emptively angry about it or call anything out of character until I actually see what happens.

Edited December 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[ban1o]

One thing I'm a little confused about is where the time jump comes in. Is Malcolm telling TA going to be a flashback. Or will TA really go 4-6 weeks without knowing where Oliver is?

Edited December 23, 2014 by ban1o