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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Yeeeeah the more I hear in the interviews, the less I think it's sunshine and roses. Finally Diggle is stepping away. Seriously dude go babysit your daughter and leave the children to themselves.

I'm not ready but hey.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Haha, did you see the dialogue tease.  Laurel:  "Sara's backpacking in the Andes."  If she dresses up to fool her parents, it will not do her character any favors.

 

To be fair, she says that when Dinah first shows up - a link to the scene was posted in the spoilers thread - maybe she'll stop being a terrible person and fess up by the end of the episode.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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To be fair, she says that when Dinah first shows up - a link to the scene was posted in the spoilers thread - maybe she'll stop being a terrible person and fess up by the end of the episode.

Yeah I'm assuming she lies at the beginning of the episode and by the end she breaks down and confesses Sara's dead and it's been soooo difficult on Laurel keeping this secret..

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I hope we're all wrong.  I hope that this level 9 scene ends with Oliver promising to return to Felicity, and then we get some swelling music and a passionate kiss.  But in reality I'm basically expecting a lot of rage posts tonight.  I just know I'm gonna be so angry after this episode. 

 

Haha, same. 

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HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)

 

Ugh. This Ray and Felicity stuff is really hard to stomach. I will be side-eyeing Felicity hard if she gets with Ray while Oliver goes off to fight to the death. I don't see how she can date someone else while the man she presumably loves is fighting for his life and the lives of his city. And if she does think he's dead, isn't that a bit quick for her to move on? And EBR pushing this R/F romance is too much for me. I know she has a job to sell these things but I'm not buying. 

 

See, while we know that Felicity loves Oliver and everything, I'm not sure Felicity has acknowledged it to herself yet. We left her in 2x23 saying that her and Oliver were "unthinkable" and then in the premiere he's kissing her, telling her he loves her in a roundabout way but then also telling her he can never be with her. So she's already moving on. Felicity cares about Oliver, yes, and she will be upset and grieve for him if they do believe he's dead- but her life did not begin when Oliver walked into her office and it won't end with him 'dying' either. 

 

What we really needed this season was someone (Diggle) asking Felicity how she feels. We've had one or two conversations between Oliver and Diggle about Oliver's feelings for Felicity but right now we don't actually know what Felicity is feeling or thinking. And so the Ray/Felicity stuff doesn't bother be because she's never actually admitted to anyone that she's in love with Oliver (using those exact words). 

 

But I still don't believe that Felicity will believe Oliver's dead for the entire time he's gone. The first episode maybe. But her future relationship with Ray does depend on whatever it is that happens between Oliver and Felicity in tonight's episode. If Oliver tells her once again "If I could have that life it would be with you, but I can't have that life ever" then why wouldn't she continue to move on?

Edited by HighHopes
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Has anyone seen a David Ramsey interview?  Rumor has it there's one floating around and someone I know was not happy with what he had to say about Felicity.

 

There's a zap2it interview in the Spoilers thread that has some David Ramsey quotes in it.  Maybe that's it.

 

Poor SA.  He looks so cold in all of those shirtless snow pictures with his red nose.  Filming that day had to suck.

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

Has anyone seen a David Ramsey interview?  Rumor has it there's one floating around and someone I know was not happy with what he had to say about Felicity.

 

It was probably this (I love you, dude, but NO):

 

 

After Diggle had a heart-to-heart with both Oliver and Felicity about the pair's romantic situation, he hopes they can work it out but he doesn't want to be involved anymore. Says David Ramsey, who plays Team Arrow's stoic muscle, "[Diggle] talking to Felicity was about this guy in the field whose head is not in the game. 'If you're playing with his head, stop it. We don't want him compromised and if he's back at the lair throwing stuff around because he sees you kissing on Palmer, that's an issue. So if this is just some little thing you're doing, stop.' That's that part of it."

Edited by apinknightmare
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See unless Felicity says something before Diggle says that, I really don't think what he says is called for. She never told him she's waiting for him, in fact she said she's not. Oliver pushed her away and continues to be wishy washy.

If Diggle can't be impartial, he should butt out completely.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)

That David Ramsey quote bugs me. Holy cow. Was that about the conversation he had with her in 3x07?? 

 

So Felicity and Oliver can't be together because Oliver is distracted, and she can't be with anyone else either because that too distracts Oliver. So what the hell is the girl supposed to do? Continue to sit in the foundry every night and never have a romantic relationship because Oliver can't deal with his emotions? How is that fair to Felicity at all?? 

Edited by HighHopes
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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

That quote is bizarre. I'm guessing it's referring to the talk they had in her office, but it doesn't make sense in the context of the scene. Maybe some lines were cut. Or maybe DR would rather have his own story line instead of having to be the relationship counselor to Olicity, which is perfectly fair. But putting all that onto Felicity is not a good look. 

 

Of course, if this is about a new conversation, then I've got nothing. 

 

I'm counting on all you East Coasters to prepare me tonight. My thoughts are with you all. :D

 

ETA: Re the Laurel quote. I just think she is an awful person. I have no sympathy for her or her actions as she keeps her parents in the dark about the daughter who they already thought was dead once. It's cruel to rob them of the time they should have had to say goodbye and the last moments they could have spent with her body (as morbid as that sounds.)

Edited by calliope1975
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

In what ways do the ramifications of tonight's episode set up the Black Canary arc and lay the groundwork even beyond that?

 

The one thing I want to clarify -- and I don't know how this happened -- it got out there in the ether that we were doing a Black Canary arc. That's not really the case. In episodes 10, 11 and 12, there's some pretty huge growth for Laurel and big steps taken on the road to becoming the Black Canary. That said, it's not the Black Canary show. I'd say episode 10 is all about Team Arrow and dealing with the ramifications and the aftershocks of 309.

 

Roy, Felicity and Diggs really come to the fore in 10, 11 and 12, for reasons I think will be pretty clear by the time you see episode 9.

 

 

Again with the backtracking.  Ha!

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

From the interview I just posted the spoiler only thread, three things:

 

 

Here, there's only one person he's trying to save. That makes it a very intimate kind of fight.

 

Thea?

 

 

I think the best answer to that question is to direct you to the end of episode 4, and the very first time we saw Ra's. That's the best way I can answer without spoiling things.

 

He was coming out of a bath, wasn't he? So yes we can has Lazarus Pits disguised as Jacuzzis?

 

 

But, the track is being laid for further developments between Ray and Felicity. By the end of their last scene, you'll see what plans Ray has for Felicity.

 

UUUGHHH.

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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

That DR quote is weird. It doesn't even sound right. I think he's been misquoted somehow.

 

 

See, while we know that Felicity loves Oliver and everything, I'm not sure Felicity has acknowledged it to herself yet. We left her in 2x23 saying that her and Oliver were "unthinkable" and then in the premiere he's kissing her, telling her he loves her in a roundabout way but then also telling her he can never be with her. So she's already moving on. Felicity cares about Oliver, yes, and she will be upset and grieve for him if they do believe he's dead- but her life did not begin when Oliver walked into her office and it won't end with him 'dying' either. 

 

What we really needed this season was someone (Diggle) asking Felicity how she feels. We've had one or two conversations between Oliver and Diggle about Oliver's feelings for Felicity but right now we don't actually know what Felicity is feeling or thinking. And so the Ray/Felicity stuff doesn't bother be because she's never actually admitted to anyone that she's in love with Oliver (using those exact words). 

 

But I still don't believe that Felicity will believe Oliver's dead for the entire time he's gone. The first episode maybe. But her future relationship with Ray does depend on whatever it is that happens between Oliver and Felicity in tonight's episode. If Oliver tells her once again "If I could have that life it would be with you, but I can't have that life ever" then why wouldn't she continue to move on?

 

 

I agree that Felicity maybe hasn't acknowledged the depth of her feelings for Oliver. I always felt in s2 that she thought he would never feel the same way so she didn't allow herself to go there. That's why the idea of them was unthinkable to her. But I do think she's probably more aware now, especially after the five months of flirting and then him asking her on a date and admitting his feelings. That had to have sparked some questioning inside her. 

 

And I don't believe her life starts and ends with Oliver at all! But for me this relationship with Ray is all about timing. I'm not saying I expect her to sit there and wait and weep over Oliver but from a personal perspective, if the man I loved/cared for is out there fighting for his life and the lives of his city, I don't think I'd be in the right frame of mind for moving on. I would find that a challenge. I guess what I'm saying is I feel like there needs to be a few weeks between Oliver leaving and Felicity getting with Ray. Just a breather. Let them be friends. Let her get her head together. There is nothing wrong with that. I really dislike this notion that a woman has to be with someone else just to 'get over' someone or try to move on. It doesn't always work that way.

 

But I do agree that what happens with R/F and how I respond to that will depend on what is said between Oliver and Felicity. I'll know my feelings better after tonight's episode. Right now it's just a horrible guessing game. 

Edited by Angel12d
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I don't think David was misquoted, I think he's working under more information than Diggle actually has because he's a RL person who read the entire script, and is probably remembering things out of order. Because when Dig went to talk to Felicity the kiss and the throwing of crap hadn't even happened yet.

 

WHY does DR think it's Felicity's responsability to make sure Oliver's head is in the game, I have no idea, though.

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Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

I think it is funny how they are now trying to appease viewers. I don't even understand how they can say that they don't

know the source of this 'rumor'. They were the source. It came from them. And moreover, it is quite rude (imo) to say they are not doinga BC arc if that is what they are doing. On the one hand they are giving KC stuff to do but then backtrack publicly. That is not nice

either. It shows again that they do know that people would not tune in for her alone. I do think they hope to get lucky with Laurel and if they throw everything at the wall at some point something will stick.

Maybe there will be a promo that will indicate what the show will do after the break. I can't exactly picture Roy wanting to take Laurel out in the field. Even though I also think his transformation was rushed and not done properly, I buywhat Roy is selling to some extent.

Edited by Belinea
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Angel12d

Angel12d

But, the track is being laid for further developments between Ray and Felicity. By the end of their last scene, you'll see what plans Ray has for Felicity.

 

 

I get the feeling he knows about her working with the Arrow and just wants to use her skills for himself. Sure, there's probably romance involved somewhere (UGH) but showing Felicity the suit is basically saying 'I want you to help me with this.'

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Chaser

Chaser

Been at work, but couldn't resist peeking in and seeing what was going on. Wow. I really can't figure out what is going on. Normally the spoilers will kinda point you in a certain direction but these are all over the place. At least in my opinion, that is. 

 

The idea of Ray and Felicity fills my stomach with wiggles. I don't like the idea of her being involved with any guy who has 'plans' for her. Still can't figure out how it will work with Oliver. 

 

A massive side-eye on that DR quote about Felicity. Not Cool At All.

 

I've completely stopped trying to figure out the Olicity scene. Low expectations.

 

LOL at all the clarification about eps 10 thru 12. I still see a big Laurel arc coming our way. But I do wonder if they are going to do it like they have previously with Laurel, jump to all the 'big moments' and forget to flesh out the character stuff. I still think she is going to tell her parents about Sara, just not at the start of the episode.

 

I know they can't really spoil anything with Thea/Malcolm, but that is what I want to know about.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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I think the best answer to that question is to direct you to the end of episode 4, and the very first time we saw Ra's. That's the best way I can answer without spoiling things.


He was coming out of a bath, wasn't he? So yes we can has Lazarus Pits disguised as Jacuzzis?

Or that's the closest you're going to see to Ra's and a Lazarus Pit on this show?

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

I will seriously cut a bitch if they have Oliver actually die and come back with a Lazarus Pit.  I do not want crazy ass Oliver.

 

Maybe there will be a promo that will indicate what the show will do after the break. I can't exactly picture Roy wanting to take Laurelout in the field.

 

 

And the EPs don't have control over the promos, do they?  Won't it be hilarious if the return is promoted as BC heavy?

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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statsgirl

statsgirl

(edited)

I was thinking of the scene in 3x07 where Diggle goes to Felicity to tell her that it's dangerous for Oliver that she's moving on with Ray because now his head's not in the game. So she thinks about that, and decides that it would be best for him as he goes out to fight Ra's to tell him that it's over between them so he can stop thinking about her.  So she does, and it's all angsty for Oliver, and later she tells Diggle when it's all angsty for her that she lied and she wishes she could be with Oliver.

 

I came here to hope that you all would tell me I'm completely wrong, but it looks like you had the same thoughts.

 

 

But, the track is being laid for further developments between Ray and Felicity. By the end of their last scene, you'll see what plans Ray has for Felicity.

I'm still hoping it's suit-building ones rather than romantic ones because for Felicity to start dating Ray when Oliver is gone because he was t trying to save Thea would make her an awful person.

Edited by statsgirl
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Again with the backtracking.  Ha!

 

Just for posterity:

 

Guggenheim: The one thing I want to clarify -- and I don't know how this happened -- it got out there in the ether that we were doing a Black Canary arc. That's not really the case.

 

Kreisberg: Episodes 10, 11 and 12 are a three-part trilogy that are about her.

 

Guggenheim: In episodes 10, 11 and 12, there's some pretty huge growth for Laurel and big steps taken on the road to becoming the Black Canary. That said, it's not the Black Canary show.

 

Kreisberg: She's not as present in [the crossover], but that is because we've been building up to her appearance as the Black Canary. Episodes 10, 11 and 12 are a three-part trilogy that are about her. For fans of Laurel and for fans of Katie, they're going to get more than their fill after the winter break.

 

Guggenheim: I'd say episode 10 is all about Team Arrow and dealing with the ramifications and the aftershocks of 309. Roy, Felicity and Diggs really come to the fore in 10, 11 and 12, for reasons I think will be pretty clear by the time you see episode 9.

 

Kreisberg: (Once more, with feeling) Episodes 10, 11 and 12 are a three-part trilogy that are about [Laurel].

 

 

I know that MG is the real showrunner of Arrow these days, and therefore Kreisberg probably spoke out of turn a bit, but it's pretty hilarious that they're acting like this came from nowhere.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I will seriously cut a bitch if they have Oliver actually die and come back with a Lazarus Pit.  I do not want crazy ass Oliver.

 

MG really did make it seem like that was what was going to happen. Don't they just go crazy for a bit though? Maybe he's a-okay by the time he gets back to Starling?

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

I am cracking up at all the backtracking. They've only brought this on themselves. 

 

I could go for the Lazarus Pit, but I'd rather it be Zombie!Tommy than Oliver. A crazed, undead Tommy has some interesting story potential. 

 

SA just briefly mentioned "feels" on Facebook. This is gonna hurt, huh?

 

You've got four hours.
Worked with James Bamford on this sword fight for a month.
Matt Nable is just sensational as Ra's.
Katrina Law!!!
Our first time director Thor Freudental was exceptional.
Just... so proud of everyone involved.
Normally I watch an early cut of an episode to see how it came out. Not this time. Haven't seen a second since we wrapped this puppy back in October. So I'm just as excited as everyone else, IF YOU CAN'T ALREADY TELL.
If you've never seen our show and you want to give it a spin, tonight is your night. And if you've been with us since October of 2012, this is absolutely our best episode.
(Plus the feels.)
Enjoy. xo

 

Edited by calliope1975
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I get the feeling he knows about her working with the Arrow and just wants to use her skills for himself. Sure, there's probably romance involved somewhere (UGH) but showing Felicity the suit is basically saying 'I want you to help me with this.'

 

Yeah, I think that bit has something to do with him recruiting her to help him with his A.T.O.M.ing. 

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

MG really did make it seem like that was what was going to happen. Don't they just go crazy for a bit though? Maybe he's a-okay by the time he gets back to Starling?

 

I'm not sure because I don't read comics, so I'm just going by what I see here.  But I still don't like the thought of Oliver really dying and being resurrected (like I said, I'm OK with that happening with Sara.  Totally hypocritical, I know.)

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

If Ra's has a Lazarus Pit why wouldn't Nyssa have taken Sara and put her in the pit as of 304? 

 

It they bring Lazarus Pits into this show there's no end to the fan requests/complaints.  Oh you killed Sara...bring her back?!  Oh you killed Tommy? Bring him back!  You killed Moira, Shado, etc, etc bring them back!

 

I think Lazarus Pits opens a can of worms and they can't actually hold to any sense of dead is dead...so wait you have a Lazarus Pit and you have brought characters back from the dead so why not X?!

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

If Ra's has a Lazarus Pit why wouldn't Nyssa have taken Sara and put her in the pit as of 304? 

 

Shhhh, because then for the next four hours I will be hoping and praying that somehow this did happen, and it turns out that the real reason he has to fight Ra's al Ghul is to get Sara back somehow. That she's the one person he's fighting for, not Thea. This has been the secret hope in my heart since 301, and I know it's not going to happen, but she's the only person I want coming out of those damn pits.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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blixie

blixie

I know nothing about comics but it seems fairly easy to just say it's a bitch to get to them and access the pits power.  Ra's ain't lettin just anybody jump in the sucker, and he didn't care for Sara so...no one would dare defy his beer gut.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

If Ra's has a Lazarus Pit why wouldn't Nyssa have taken Sara and put her in the pit as of 304? 

 

It they bring Lazarus Pits into this show there's no end to the fan requests/complaints.  Oh you killed Sara...bring her back?!  Oh you killed Tommy? Bring him back!  You killed Moira, Shado, etc, etc bring them back!

 

I think Lazarus Pits opens a can of worms and they can't actually hold to any sense of dead is dead...so wait you have a Lazarus Pit and you have brought characters back from the dead so why not X?!

 

Because Sara had been dead for two weeks, by that time, I think? If Arrow is going to have Lazarus Pits on the show then Nyssa would know the effects of being long-time dead then revived. Which is not for that person to become just a little crazy but a lot cray--maybe, Jason Todd crazy? As much as Nyssa loves Sara, I don't think she'd want that for her.

 

But, definitely, agree with you about keeping the Lazarus Pits as far away from the show, as possible. Dead has to mean dead, at some point, in this show. Otherwise, why would anyone give a flying turd about anyone else dying?

 

Honestly, I really don't know what to think about any of the spoilers. It seems like an interview or quote might get me excited and then it will be followed by another one that makes me want to rage. All I know is that it's going to be painful, possibly infuriating, possibly WTF-inducing, and I will need lots of alcohol, ice cream, and pillows to cry on (or throw at my tv).

 

    But, the track is being laid for further developments between Ray and Felicity. By the end of their last scene, you'll see what plans Ray has for Felicity.

 

Lol. This totally does not sound creepy at all. It's probably something innocuous, like asking for help with the suit, but perhaps MG should phrase things a little better if he wants me to stop regarding Palmer as a crazy eyed weirdo.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I know nothing about comics but it seems fairly easy to just say it's a bitch to get to them and access the pits power. Ra's ain't lettin just anybody jump in the sucker, and he didn't care for Sara so...no one would dare defy his beer gut.

Nyssa would, she pretty much did in 213 when she released Sara in her father's name even after claiming that no one leaves the League.

BTW - I'm not saying they won't, this is the show that never mentioned a mirakuru cure in the first 17 or 18 episodes of the season only to reveal that there's a possible cure very late in the season.

I just think it would become more trouble for the EPs if they do it. There's already a ton of people yelling for Lazarus Pits to save Sara and Tommy and they've never hinted at it being possible. Now they acknowledge there are Lazarus Pits...they'd never hear the end of it.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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Angel12d

Angel12d

(edited)

Yeah, I think that bit has something to do with him recruiting her to help him with his A.T.O.M.ing. 

 

Yep. I mean, Ray having a 'plan' for Felicity doesn't exactly scream romance to me so I think it's just about him becoming The Atom. And if she agrees to help I'm sure that will create some tension with Oliver when he returns and finds out.

Edited by Angel12d
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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

Man, the whole S3 progression is starting to sound like a big ol' hot mess. I'm trying very hard not to let the spoilers lessen my excitement but damn they're making it hard...Oliver missing/possibly presumed dead, Roy leading Team Arrow, Laurel trilogy, Felicity hooking up with crazy-eyed stalker with "plans" for her. The only thing that's sounding the least bit cool is Diggle as a badass action hero and the return of Slade. I guess I'll have to cling with everything I have to that because the rest makes me want to hurl.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I know nothing about comics but it seems fairly easy to just say it's a bitch to get to them and access the pits power.  Ra's ain't lettin just anybody jump in the sucker, and he didn't care for Sara so...no one would dare defy his beer gut.

 

In the comics Nyssa had her own Lazarus pit, so she didn't need Ra's. 

 

If it turned out that Oliver was fighting Ra's for risen from the grave Sara's freedom, then I'd tune into the show. However I know that will never be the case because Laurel has to be BLACK CANARY cause the comics say so!

Edited by Sakura12
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Lol. This totally does not sound creepy at all. It's probably something innocuous, like asking for help with the suit, but perhaps MG should phrase things a little better if he wants me to stop regarding Palmer as a crazy eyed weirdo.

MG is the kind of person who thinks the more riled up the audience gets, the better it is so even if it is just Ray asking Felicity for suit help, he's going to make it sound like it's romantic.

 

The one exception is the "no, it's not really the Laurel show" comments, probably because they got a ton of tweets saying "bye, bye, maybe when Oliver gets back".

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blixie

blixie

 

Nyssa would, she pretty much did in 213 when she released Sara in her father's name even after claiming that no one leaves the League.

 

I was actually joking.

 

 

the whole S3 progression is starting to sound like a big ol' hot mess.

 

Starting to? Heh.

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