Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Sunshine]

According to an MG tweet Oliver's suit upgrade happens in 3.08.  I hope he isn't getting buckles.

[blixie]

I think the "knows where he is; knows where he isn't" just means that she knows he's not in Starling (and probably knows he's with the LoA). That it's not easy on her.

 

Yeah I actually just interpreted this as more of the same Oliver has once again NOT chosen to be Oliver Queen and be with Felicity. She knows where he is LoA/Nanda Parbat, and she knows where he isn't, aka with her. 

On a slightly related note: I really don't want them to rebrand Starling City. I assume it's Star City in the comics, right? But a major city renaming itself because it went through some tough times? That's far-fetched, in the modern age, and it's also kind of...anti-American? Something? I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me. I think the citizens would be more defensive of their city, their identity. If some rich dude swooped into town and said, "Ugh, 'Detroit' is a turn-off for people. We're calling it DeLIGHT now!" people would not be having it. Even if it was something cool, I don't think people would want that change. Regardless of what's happened in the city, changing the name is stupid.

 

While I agree that major city might not, the Detroit example is apt because one of it's foremost suburbs, working class East Detroit re-branded in the 1992 to Eastpointe, not only to disassociate itself from Detroit, but also to link itself with the ultra rich and middle class neighborhoods immediately east of the city (Grosse Pointe, Grosse Pointe Park, Woods, Farms, and Shores). 

[Kordi]

But given how often Team Arrow has dealt with people coming back from the dead, I can't see Felicity accepting Oliver's "death" without seeing an actual body. 

Maybe I am entirely wrong, but I imagine the situation to be as follows: Oliver is on a high mountain. He has a sword fight with somebody. He is defeated and falls from the mountain top. The Arrow team (or some/ one of the team members) witness(es) the fall and think(s) he is dead. However, unbeknown to the witness(es), Oliver can save himself by hanging on to some kind of ledge. That's where the midseason finale ends: with a literal cliffhanger.

 

In 3x10 we see how Oliver's friends look for his body, but can't find it and finally feel they have to give up. (This is not unusual in the case of mountaineering accidents: People can fall in some cleft or crevice or crevasse, can't be found and finally are declared dead.) Felicity might still be somehow hoping that he survived, but might have no evidence, no traces or clues she could use to start searching again.

 

I sort of prefer the presumed-death-theory to other alternatives (although I am not enthusiastic about it, because it is a kind of repetition of Oliver's island years and, as I said before, I don't want Arrow without Arrow). It's because it makes the identity issues for those "left behind" more interesting. If they decide to continue Arrow's crusade against villains, then they would have to explicitly endorse this mission as their own. It's true that this is sort of the case already: Neither Felicity nor Diggle nor Roy have to work for/ with the Arrow/ Oliver, but if they think he is dead, then they would have to rethink their commitment to their friend's cause.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Kordi

[ostentatious]

I just can't see Diggle and Felicity stopping looking for Oliver after 5 weeks without a body.

 

I think they have confirmation that Oliver is where he chooses to be, which is not Starling City. That's the only way they wouldn't still be looking for him at that point.

 

And I think the point will be made that the Team doesn't exist just because Oliver exists. Diggle, Roy, and Felicity have a personal drive to help people, and will still care about the city even without Oliver there.

[Ariah]

Could the whole "knows where he is; knows where he is not" mean that Felicity is not looking for Oliver because he is NOT WITH HER?

 

Maybe she will give him a choice and he will choose to leave instead of staying with her. So she will not look for him. I know it's rather OOC, but who knows with these writers.

 

(Guggenheim twitted the scene is also "surprising" and Felicity being all "Stay with me, be with me, live, don't go, love me, i love you" would be surprising at this point of the narrative)

 

But my romantic side still wants to see a scene like this:

Oliver wants to leave without seeing Felicity, because he knows it can be too painfull for him. But she finds him in the Foundry. She wants to talk him down. He won't listen, won't even look at her (again: too painfull). She forces him to. If he won't stay, she wants to go with him. She will not let him do this alone. He won't let her go with him. They both blurt out truths about their feelings. They kiss. And just as they break apart, Felicity touches her neck: Oliver used the kiss to distract and tranqualize her, so that he can leave. He places her in the bed she bought for him, leaves something of value on the pillow (an arrow? a necklace like the one for Digglette?) and he's gone.

Felicity wakes up, angry, shocked. She picks up the com, but there's only static...

 

Ok, sorry for the rambling :)

[looptab]

 

And I think the point will be made that the Team doesn't exist just because Oliver exists. Diggle, Roy, and Felicity have a personal drive to help people, and will still care about the city even without Oliver there.

I hope is that and not Laurel having to 'convince' them to get back in action. Please no. Ugh, I'm curious about these episodes but I so don't want to see her commandeering the Foundry..:/

[dtissagirl]

So Sin is back in 312 and helps with the investigation of the murder mystery. Direct Kreisberg quote, “She plays a pivotal part in the investigation into Sara’s death.”

 

My first thought here is they're gonna go with Thea as a suspect in 309 to get Oliver out of town, so the way is cleared for Laurel to actually be the one to solve Sara's murder. It makes sense thematically if she solves it in 312-313, and that's her victory moment/coronation into hero-ing.

 

I just have absolutely zero interest in watching any of that.

[apinknightmare]

Per the article posted in the spoiler only thread, Sin comes back in 3x12 and plays a pivotal role in the investigation into Sara's death. So the "killer" in 2x09 is a red herring, I guess. In the words of my girl Felicity, "End this." END IT NOW

[BkWurm1]

"No. She'll know where he is-- or where he's not."

 

My first thought was that Oliver is supposedly in one place but Felicity knows that he isn't really there, like she's in on his secret plan.  I don't know whether it would be Oliver Queen "officially" being on some business trip and everyone on the team knows what is really up or if for some reason he is hiding the truth behind where he is from the rest of the team but Felicity knows. 

On another topic, I'm not looking forward to "Canaries" but it occurred to me that the show runners have to know that I'm not happy and I wonder if they might just try to make it up to me.  After all it IS Oliver's return episode so I wonder if they might slip in a big Olicity moment. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by BkWurm1

[ostentatious]

I hope is that and not Laurel having to 'convince' them to get back in action. Please no. Ugh, I'm curious about these episodes but I so don't want to see her commandeering the Foundry..:/

That's worse than having her suit up in the first place.

[Morrigan2575]

Per the article posted in the spoiler only thread, Sin comes back in 3x12 and plays a pivotal role in the investigation into Sara's death. So the "killer" in 2x09 is a red herring, I guess. In the words of my girl Felicity, "End this." END IT NOW

Or, the killer is revealed to the audience in 309, not the characters. The characters are still looking for the killer. Honestly, this actually in my mind confirms the Thea spoiler. Oliver finds out in 312, with the help of Sin, that Thea was the one who killed Sara.

People keep thinking that Oliver gives himself to the LoA to protect Thea because the DNA leads him to believe she's the killer. Maybe he gives himself up to protect the city, and that's why no one is looking for him? Oliver becomes a willing hostage to buy TA time to find the killer.

BTW this matches exactly what happened in 109 and 209, the big bad, the mystery villain behind everything was revealed in both episodes to the audience but the characters didn't find out until much later.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Or, the killer is revealed to the audience in 309, not the characters. The characters are still looking for the killer. Honestly, this actually in my mind confirms the Thea spoiler. Oliver finds out in 312, with the help of Sin, that Thea was the one who killed Sara.

People keep thinking that Oliver gives himself to the LoA to protect Thea because the DNA leads him to believe she's the killer. Maybe he gives himself up to protect the city, and that's why no one is looking for him? Oliver becomes a willing hostage to buy TA time to find the killer.

BTW this matches exactly what happened in 109 and 209, the big bad, the mystery villain behind everything was revealed in both episodes to the audience but the characters didn't find out until much later.

 

Yeah, good point. I had been thinking that we'd find out with everyone on the show in 3x09, not that we'd find out but they'd still be clueless. I had forgotten about the reveals in the other eps. So hopefully we'll find out not only who killed Sara but also who put them up to it. Not looking forward to that clustermess.

 

ETA: And Oliver offering himself up to save the city would be the perfect parallel (I'm using the word perfect loosely) with his identity crisis this season. He'd literally be giving up his life for his mission.

Edited November 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[strikera0]

Ugh, I would so hate it if Thea turns out to be Sara's murderer. I think it would ruin her character and her relationship with Oliver for me. :(

 

I'm glad to hear that Laurel won't be getting the Canary Cry though. While it would have been a good way to differentiate her from Sara, it would have been silly if she had developed a power similar to Sara's sonic device.

Edited November 26, 2014 by strikera0

[Morrigan2575]

Ugh, I would so hate it if Thea turns out to be Sara's murderer. I think it would ruin her character and her relationship with Oliver for me. :(

I think it's a really, really bad idea but I also believe it's what they're doing.

If the idea that these EPs can't let go of their original plans is true then it's possible they're trying to do whatever storyline they originally planned for Tommy only substituting Thea.

[Kordi]

Or, the killer is revealed to the audience in 309, not the characters. The characters are still looking for the killer. Honestly, this actually in my mind confirms the Thea spoiler. Oliver finds out in 312, with the help of Sin, that Thea was the one who killed Sara.

Could you please explain that? Because I drew exactly the opposite conclusion: that Thea will turn out to be the red herring of 3x09. I suppose they will find her DNA on the arrow that killed Sara, and Oliver somehow is forced to "sacrifice" himself for his sister.

I am with you, however, when you assume that the real murderer is going to be revealed in 3x09 - but only to the audience. That's what I speculated about some days ago in a post of this thread. I stick to my theory, though, that the killer is Tatsu/ Katana or her husband and that it is ultimately Amanda Waller who is behind the whole murder mystery

[dtissagirl]

Or, the killer is revealed to the audience in 309, not the characters. The characters are still looking for the killer. Honestly, this actually in my mind confirms the Thea spoiler. Oliver finds out in 312, with the help of Sin, that Thea was the one who killed Sara.

People keep thinking that Oliver gives himself to the LoA to protect Thea because the DNA leads him to believe she's the killer. Maybe he gives himself up to protect the city, and that's why no one is looking for him? Oliver becomes a willing hostage to buy TA time to find the killer.

BTW this matches exactly what happened in 109 and 209, the big bad, the mystery villain behind everything was revealed in both episodes to the audience but the characters didn't find out until much later.

 

That's a good point about the audience learning before the characters in previous seasons, but then there's the Natalie Abrams set visit. She watched an Oliver, Diggle and Felicity scene where they discussed the "shocking new suspect" we're all assuming it's Thea. That's what made me think Oliver gives himself up to the LoA in exchange for Thea in the first place.

 

Maybe they think she's being framed, and Team Arrow will investigate that, though.

[apinknightmare]

If Oliver does turn himself over to Ra's so he doesn't make good on his threat to kill the people of Starling, then I can see Felicity being upset with him and not trying to find him. She's always the one telling him to find another way, and I'm sure she would tell him that they could take Ra's on and fight him without Oliver having to sacrifice himself. If he decided to be all martyry and Oliver-like and noble for the cause, yeah... I can see how that tweet of MG's would come to fruition. She and Diggle and Roy (and Laurel will try, I guess) will carry on in his absence. Maybe that's how Ray gets brought into the city-saving fray as well.

 

I don't like the idea of Thea being the actual killer, so I would rather it play out like @Morrigan2575 suggested, only minus Thea being guilty.

[apinknightmare]

That's a good point about the audience learning before the characters in previous seasons, but then there's the Natalie Abrams set visit. She watched an Oliver, Diggle and Felicity scene where they discussed the "shocking new suspect" we're all assuming it's Thea. That's what made me think Oliver gives himself up to the LoA in exchange for Thea in the first place.

 

Maybe they think she's being framed, and Team Arrow will investigate that, though.

 

I can't think of anyone else who would genuinely be shocking at this point, except for maybe Ray. It'd be helpful if we knew for sure if the short stature of the shooter and strange angle of the arrows were actual clues or just sloppy storytelling so we'd think Roy actually did it.

 

I just don't see how this shocking new suspect is actually the guilty party if Sin's providing helpful evidence three episodes later. Unless this helpful evidence exonerates the suspect, or...I don't know, I'm tired of trying to figure it out, haha.

[Morrigan2575]

Could you please explain that? Because I drew exactly the opposite conclusion: that Thea will turn out to be the red herring of 3x09. I suppose they will find her DNA on the arrow that killed Sara, and Oliver somehow is forced to "sacrifice" himself for his sister

The spoiler said that they were shooting scenes in 312 (granted they said now), where Oliver finds out Thea killed Sara. We know that Bex was in Vancouver shooting scenes last week, and AJK's comment says that Sin is vital to the investigation, could easily fit into a scene where Sin provides missing information or reveals the killer, maybe she was on her way to meet Sara, saw everything and has been laying low ever since?

We know from both MG and SA that the kiler will be revealed in 309, MG said it in several interviews going all the way back to SDCC and SA echoed it quite recently. We have pretty much one episode left before the winter finale and that's the crossover, which means that while there will be some tie in to the mystery it won't be focused on who killed Sara.

Making it Maseo or Katana would be pointless, neither have ties to any character in the present besides Oliver. Neither knew Sara and Sara didn't know them, neither use bows as their weapons. How can the show reveal that the killer is someone who never fit the mystery to begin with? As for Amanda why does she want Sara dead? When did Sara meet her? None of these can be answered without massive retcons, which totally deminishes the mystery they just built an entire season around.

Thea being the killer fits all the clues given to this point, it has the most emotional impact on the story and characters. Thea has direct connections to Oliver, Roy and Laurel. Thea is also a regular who kind of needs a story, and this is a big story.

And "BTW" when did Natalie Abrams become a trusted source? This is the same woman who is responsible for Felicity being Ray's EA and just totally butchered Oliver's comment to Barry in the crossover Q&A.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[KirkB]

"No. She'll know where he is-- or where he's not."

 

I just had another thought. Maybe Felicity, and everyone else, knows where Oliver IS because he's agreed to go off with Ra's (as a hostage or for training/assignment or whatever) and where he ISN'T which is with her.

[lemotomato]

If Oliver does turn himself over to Ra's so he doesn't make good on his threat to kill the people of Starling, then I can see Felicity being upset with him and not trying to find him. She's always the one telling him to find another way, and I'm sure she would tell him that they could take Ra's on and fight him without Oliver having to sacrifice himself. If he decided to be all martyry and Oliver-like and noble for the cause, yeah... I can see how that tweet of MG's would come to fruition. 

Felicity not just giving up on a relationship with Oliver, but on Oliver himself, would cancel out all lovely moments they had in the last 2 episodes of last season. 

 

Given how this season has gone, I wouldn't put it past the writers to do exactly this, then.

[ostentatious]

Could you please explain that? Because I drew exactly the opposite conclusion: that Thea will turn out to be the red herring of 3x09. I suppose they will find her DNA on the arrow that killed Sara, and Oliver somehow is forced to "sacrifice" himself for his sister.

I am with you, however, when you assume that the real murderer is going to be revealed in 3x09 - but only to the audience. That's what I speculated about some days ago in a post of this thread. I stick to my theory, though, that the killer is Tatsu/ Katana or her husband and that it is ultimately Amanda Waller who is behind the whole murder mystery

I agree, that's exactly what I took from it. Thea is the red herring and the real killer will be revealed at the end of 309 to the audience only. That'll be their shocking tag for the break. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by ostentatious

[looptab]

I think it's possible that it was Sin herself who killed Sara, because (insert crazy reason). Saying she's pivotal in the investigation could also mean she's the killer :/
But Morrigan's theory is sound as well. Still don't know if I'd like it though.

 

However,
 

 

And "BTW" when did Natalie Abrams become a trusted source? This is the same woman who is responsible for Felicity being Ray's EA and just totally butchered Oliver's comment to Barry in the crossover Q&A.

which comment did she butchered? I remember the EA mistake and other assumptions she made, but this must have escaped me :)

[statsgirl]

Yes, Oliver will think it's Thea and based on that go off, and then the audience learns that it wasn't her after all.

 

Maybe even Sin, if she's deliberately feeding them bad information.  Manipulated by Amanda Waller or Ra's.

 

 

I just had another thought. Maybe Felicity, and everyone else, knows where Oliver IS because he's agreed to go off with Ra's (as a hostage or for training/assignment or whatever) and where he ISN'T which is with her.

I've seen romance novels better written but I wouldn't put it past MG to mean this very thing.

 

 

which comment did she butchered? I remember the EA mistake and other assumptions she made, but this must have escaped me :)

In Unthinkable, she concluded that Oliver was willing to sacrifice Felicity to save his true love, Laurel.

Edited November 26, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

Felicity not just giving up on a relationship with Oliver, but on Oliver himself, would cancel out all lovely moments they had in the last 2 episodes of last season. 

 

Just curious, why?

 

What if she tries to convince him not to go, that there's another way to deal with the situation, and he goes anyway? How long is she supposed to be the cheerleader for a guy who seemingly won't rest until he destroys his own life in the name of his mission?

[Morrigan2575]

OK so let's investigate. What do we know about the killer?

Knew Sara

Sara knew killer but confused to see them there

Sara wasn't scared or intimidated

Used black arrows

Trajectory and velocity of Arrows were odd

Possible DNA evidence to be revealed in 308

Did I miss anything?

External to the show

Colton says he feels sorry for the character that killed Sara

Killer revealed in 309

SA says Thea not going evil?

Sin plays a part in investigation in 312

Run it against the list of suspects, look for means, motive and opportunity. And remember Sara knowing the killer is a clue which means the audience has to know that Sara knew her killer.

Who are your top suspects?

Here are mine:

Thea (fits every criteria except SA saying she wasn't going evil)

Sin fits most but not a really important one, she doesn't know or use a bow and arrow and maybe trajectory.

Nyssa doesn't use black arrows and probably not the trajectory either but certainly a viable suspect.

Ra's Al Ghul certainly the obvious suspect, has means, motive and possibly opportunity (we can't rule him out), negatives he doesn't use a biw/arrow (that we know of) but it's certainly a possibility since do many LoA members use them.

Maseo, Katana, Waller, Talia All Ghul (non existent) and Ray have never met Sara

Diggle/Lyla in hospital with baby

Laurel was in the alley

Oliver on rooftop meeting Barry

Felicity listening in on rooftop meeting

Roy unaccounted for but ruled out by show

Malcolm unaccounted for but ruled out by show

Lance unaccounted for but doesn't use a bow/arrow

Edited November 26, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Who are your top 3 suspects?

 

This is impossible to figure out, because ultimately we don't know who Sara knew.

 

If I had to guess I'd say Waller ordered the hit, and someone from the HK flashbacks carried it out.

-or-

Ra's maybe, to mastermind some kind of mess between Oliver and the League.

-or-

Not Thea (please not Thea).

Edited November 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

We do know who Sara knew, as I said it's a clue, which means the audience has to know that Sara knew this person. Otherwise it's a totally Bullshit mystery. It would require retconing Sara's story after the fact just to provide a twist.

Also what is Waller's motive?

ETA: Angel12d's post just reminded me, Sin only knows Sara, Thea, Roy with Oliver and Laurel having minimal ties to the character.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Guest]

I hope Felicity isn't off dating Ray while Oliver is missing. I know she said she would move on with her life and I get that but there's something unsettling about her moving on while the man she loves is in danger/sacrificing himself for the city. Unless it doesn't play out like that, I don't know. 

 

If 313 is called 'Canaries' that means Laurel has four episodes of focus, not three. WTF are they doing? Seriously.

 

Also, how can Sin be vital to the investigation of Sara's death when she hasn't been around the whole season?! It's like they're just pulling it out of their asses now.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

We do know who Sara knew, as I said it's a clue, which means the audience has to know that Sara knew this person. Otherwise it's a totally Bullshit mystery. It would require retconing Sara's story after the fact just to provide a twist.

 

Yeah, I misread that part of your post.

 

If I'm forced to choose between people I think would be legit suspects that WE know Sara knew, then I'd only have two: Merlyn or Ra's. I won't ever buy Thea doing it, and I really won't buy Nyssa being brainwashed to do it, so I hope it's neither of them.

 

I think it's going to wind up being a bullshit mystery though. These EPs love their twists.

Also, how can Sin be vital to the investigation of Sara's death when she hasn't been around the whole season?! It's like they're just pulling it out of their asses now.

 

The spoiler reads that she "plays a pivotal part in the investigation into Sara's death." Could be she provides an alibi to the person who's being blamed, or maybe she met up with Sara and knew what she was doing in town which sheds light onto another suspect. The fact that she's been gone for so long might play into her pivotal part, IDK.

Edited November 26, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Morrigan2575]

Well then that's a massive failing of the show because they just built 9-12 episodes around a mystery that has no real payoff. Pulling a last minute twist that can only be explained by a retcon is beyond lazy and cheap it pathetic and should be a major turnoff because it shows a sheer lack of actual storytelling ability.

BTW Malcolm was ruled out by the show, so again unless they're massivly lazy and creatively bankrupt it's probably not him.

I don't know if it's Thea, I don't want it to be Thea but, it makes the most sense. She fits almost all of the criteria and has the most impact. Thea killing Sara affects Oliver (heavily), Laurel, Roy and Malcolm. Not only emotionally but it affects the trajectory of their storylines/characters in major ways.

And this is mylast post on the subject. It's 2 weeks to the mid season finale and unless they're lying their asses off we'll have an answer by then

Edited November 27, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I'm not entirely sure the mystery was ever built around having a payoff. The whole point of it, even as the EPs explained after it happened, were the things it set in motion, not the act itself.

Edited November 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Kordi]

And remember Sara knowing the killer is a clue which means the audience has to know that Sara knew her killer.

Maseo, Katana, Waller, Talia All Ghul (non existent) and Ray have never met Sara.

Please, wait a moment. Can we be sure that Sara knew who her killer was? For sure, she thought she knew the person in front of her. But what if the killer was in a disguise? What if the person was dressed like a person Sara knew or wore a mask that made her look like somebody else? I think we cannot simply assume that Sara was correct about her killer's identity. Maybe it was just a trick in order to get close enough so that it would be easier to kill her. Therefore, IMO we cannot cross Maseo, Katana or others off the list. (BTW it could be revealed in 3x09 that after all there was a connection between Sara and her killer, a connection we haven't heard of yet, although we already knew the people in question.)

[Guest]

I don't know, I still feel like Waller is responsible somehow. She is ruthless. 

 

The spoiler reads that she "plays a pivotal part in the investigation into Sara's death." Could be she provides an alibi to the person who's being blamed, or maybe she met up with Sara and knew what she was doing in town which sheds light onto another suspect. The fact that she's been gone for so long might play into her pivotal part, IDK.

 

Ok. Yeah. I can buy that. Maybe she met up with Sara when she was in town (I know Nyssa took Oliver to Sara's hideout apartment - maybe Sin knew where that was too) and she saw something that scared her? Or maybe Sara told her to leave town or something and wait until she gets in touch and Sin finally comes back because she hasn't heard anything in so long. Ugh. I just would have preferred to actually see this stuff happening on my screen rather than all this guess work.

[ban1o]

TBH the only reason Sin was only gone for so long was because BTK was busy but I guess they might work that into the plot 

[apinknightmare]

I just would have preferred to actually see this stuff happening on my screen rather than all this guess work.

 

It's just an all-around shitty mystery. The team should have a group of suspects that remain suspects until they're cleared, so that the pool gets smaller as time goes on. Instead we have a non-existent pool of suspects, and one pops up and is cleared by the end of the episode. That's why I'm fairly convinced that while Sara knew her killer, we don't know who it is or if/how they knew each other at this time. This whole storyline is based on shock value and not on sense, that's why it sucks so incredibly badly (yes, it also sucks because Sara's dead, but they could've still made finding her killer somewhat interesting if they wanted to do that).

 

Sara died so that Oliver could shut down and insist he had to be the Arrow, so that Felicity could find worth outside of the cave, so that Diggle could do...whatever in the hell he was going to do since they didn't make it was clear he was leaving the team until the episode after he did it, and most importantly so that Laurel could become BC or whatever in the hell she's going to become. And so Quentin could be kept in the dark so he could fall into the bottle again, or die. Whatever. Who did it? Who cares. It seems like even the people running the show don't.

Edited November 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

WORD, @apinknightmare. WORD. They've failed the whole mystery epically. I don't care who killed Sara and that's the problem. We're supposed to be invested in this but we're not. I think we all just want it over and that's not good TV.

 

Oh and I've just found my rage over Quentin still being kept in the dark. Smh.

[statsgirl]

We do know who Sara knew, as I said it's a clue, which means the audience has to know that Sara knew this person. Otherwise it's a totally Bullshit mystery. It would require retconing Sara's story after the fact just to provide a twist.

This season?  It wouldn't surprise me at all.  Sara's whole death was a Bullshit move.

 

 

It's just an all-around shitty mystery. [snip]

 

Sara died so that Oliver could shut down and insist he had to be the Arrow, so that Felicity could find worth outside of the cave, so that Diggle could do...whatever in the hell he was going to do since they didn't make it was clear he was leaving the team until the episode after he did it, and most importantly so that Laurel could become BC or whatever in the hell she's going to become. And so Quentin could be kept in the dark so he could fall into the bottle again, or die. Whatever. Who did it? Who cares. It seems like even the people running the show don't.

It would be ba enough if it were written to plot.  But it's written to plot contrivance, and that's much worse.

 

The sad thing it, it wouldn't have been hard to write properly from the beginning.  First, have Sara suddenly go missing rather that most sincerely dead. Then we could see everyone be more cautious while they frantically search for her, along with Nyssa who brought them info on what cases Sara was working on, and Laurel would be worried and scared instead of rage 'roidy.  It would also make it acceptable for Quentin to be kept in the dark since he would be worried about what had happened to her and they don't want to tell him until they know for sure.

 

Then produce all the possible suspects and eliminate them one by one instead of one suspect each week until you get to the last.  And do the mystery continuously rather than one episode one, two off, so the suspense carries on through the half-season rather than having the audience forget every few weeks what it's supposed to be.

Edited November 27, 2014 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

which comment did she butchered? I remember the EA mistake and other assumptions she made, but this must have escaped me :)

From what I've heard, she twisted the line from Oliver to Barry in Flarrow, which is what's been repeated over the internet. The comment that Oliver tells Barry it'll never work between Barry and Iris. Edited November 27, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[NumberCruncher]

from what I've heard, she twisted the line from Oliver to Barry in Flarrow, which is what's been repeated over the internet. The comment that Oliver tells Barry it'll never work between Barry and Iris.

That supposed comment has so many online Barry/Iris shippers in absolute meltdown. I've never seen another reporter who has as much difficulty reporting things accurately as she does. SMH.

[looptab]

From what I've heard, she twisted the line from Oliver to Barry in Flarrow, which is what's been repeated over the internet. The comment that Oliver tells Barry it'll never work between Barry and Iris.

So he doesn't really say to Barry that it'll never work  with Iris?lol  did someone who attended the screening confirm this? if she manages to change things while interviewing the cast, it's impressive! smh

Edited November 27, 2014 by looptab

[Danny Franks]

He should be telling Barry it'll never work out with Iris, because that relationship is already coated in creepy. Surrogate brother secretly crushes on his sister? Yeah, bad enough, but surrogate brother uses a secret identity to deliberately entice sister into developing a crush on him? Seriously gross.

 

And if Thea does turn out to have killed Sara, then that'll be yet another character thrown under the bus to make Laurel's 'journey' possible. This is just tragically misguided decision-making, from people who are ever more clearly not able to see beyond their own stubborn preconceptions.

[Password]

He should be telling Barry it'll never work out with Iris, because that relationship is already coated in creepy. Surrogate brother secretly crushes on his sister? Yeah, bad enough, but surrogate brother uses a secret identity to deliberately entice sister into developing a crush on him? Seriously gross.

Yeah I'm getting super annoyed with the whole Iris speaking to The Flash thing. He's taking advantage of the situation and allowing his true feelings to shine through for her, whilst Iris may well be falling for him. She better find out soon or I call shenanigans. And when she does I hope she pimp slaps him for his deception.

[BkWurm1]

If Oliver does turn himself over to Ra's so he doesn't make good on his threat to kill the people of Starling, then I can see Felicity being upset with him and not trying to find him. She's always the one telling him to find another way, and I'm sure she would tell him that they could take Ra's on and fight him without Oliver having to sacrifice himself. If he decided to be all martyry and Oliver-like and noble for the cause, yeah... I can see how that tweet of MG's would come to fruition.

 

I can't imagine it going to this extreme.  I can see her being upset and urging him to find a different way rather than sacrifice himself but in the end, this is Thea.  Felicity knows in the end Oliver is going to do whatever it takes and I think as upset as she would be, she would understand he can't not do everything in is his power to try to save his sister. I do not believe she would turn her back on him over something like this.  If she's not looking for him, it has to be part of some plan or agreement. 

 

Now of course there is the possibility that Oliver feeds her some fake story or there is some kind of absurd plot driven reason why Oliver might intend to drive her away but that's about the only way I'd believe the Thea reason would make Felicity wash her hands of Oliver.    

[apinknightmare]

I can't imagine it going to this extreme. I can see her being upset and urging him to find a different way rather than sacrifice himself but in the end, this is Thea. Felicity knows in the end Oliver is going to do whatever it takes and I think as upset as she would be, she would understand he can't not do everything in is his power to try to save his sister. I do not believe she would turn her back on him over something like this. If she's not looking for him, it has to be part of some plan or agreement.

Now of course there is the possibility that Oliver feeds her some fake story or there is some kind of absurd plot driven reason why Oliver might intend to drive her away but that's about the only way I'd believe the Thea reason would make Felicity wash her hands of Oliver.

My comment wasn't about Thea though, it was about the possibility of Oliver turning himself over to keep Ra's from killing the people of Starling. I was just imagining a scenario where Oliver went to Ra's outside of trying to protect Thea, since we're all assuming that's what he's doing (and I think it is, just playing devil's advocate).

[tv echo]

On a slightly related note: I really don't want them to rebrand Starling City. I assume it's Star City in the comics, right? But a major city renaming itself because it went through some tough times? That's far-fetched, in the modern age, and it's also kind of...anti-American? Something? I don't know. It doesn't sit right with me. I think the citizens would be more defensive of their city, their identity. If some rich dude swooped into town and said, "Ugh, 'Detroit' is a turn-off for people. We're calling it DeLIGHT now!" people would not be having it. Even if it was something cool, I don't think people would want that change. Regardless of what's happened in the city, changing the name is stupid.

I don't want them to change the name of the city because 'Starling City' sounds more like a real city than 'Star City' - what, are we in a futuristic metropolis now?  But, of course, their answer to the question of "why change the name" is the same as the answer to the question of "why must Laurel become the BC" - because of the comics.  This is why story developments that don't develop organically from the TV show but are inserted for comic book reasons don't always make sense to the many viewers who've never read the comics.

 

I'm back to not caring who killed Sara - just please get that story arc resolved and over so we can move on.

 

Regarding Felicity knowing where Oliver is and isn't, I'm leaning toward agreeing with the theory that Oliver has given a cover story to Thea and the world as to why he's leaving the city, but has confided to Team Arrow that he's really going to Ra's.

Edited November 27, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

Regarding Felicity knowing where Oliver is and isn't, I'm leaning toward agreeing with the theory that Oliver has given a cover story to Thea and the world as to why he's leaving the city, but has confided to Team Arrow that he's really going to Ra's.

I wish that person had asked if Felicity (and the team) was going to be trying to get him back rather than if she'd be looking for him. I'm less curious about whether they know where he's going when he leaves (because I'm sure they do) than I am about whether they're going to actively try to get him back, since that might give us a clue as to whether they think he's dead or not.

Edited November 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Password]

I just put the New Zealand promo for the crossover in Spoilers Only. Barry's being a bit of a donut. It seems we'll finally see what adverse effects the Mirakuru, I mean particle generator had on his body. Still can't see how Oliver can possibly beat him in a fight but we'll see.

...and Felicity's shirtless in front of Barry because she catches fire after he zooms her yo Star Labs. Really show? Spice it up and have Oliver walk in on her alone. Give me something!!!!!!

[Morrigan2575]

So he doesn't really say to Barry that it'll never work with Iris?lol did someone who attended the screening confirm this? if she manages to change things while interviewing the cast, it's impressive! smh

Yes, someone at the screening said she totally twisted the words and that Oliver doesn't tell Barry that it will never happen between Barry/Iris. Im trying to find it online as I heard it second hand. The screener wouldn't reveal what was actually said, just that the entire context was twisted.

...and Felicity's shirtless in front of Barry because she catches fire after he zooms her yo Star Labs. Really show? Spice it up and have Oliver walk in on her alone. Give me something!!!!!!

Apparently that scene is hilarious, jbuffyangel said everyone in the theater was laughing. Edited November 27, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

Apparently that scene is hilarious, jbuffyangel said everyone in the theater was laughing.

That's actually what do thought would probably play out, but I'm being selfish because Oliver walking would be fuuuuuuuuuuuun.

But overall the tone looksfar lighter than Arrow and that's a plus.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Limbo