Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

I'm not sure why they're keeping it such a secret but I still think he's playing James.

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

You know, it's when I read things like this

from the TVLine article in Spoilers Only that I really wonder why they're not announcing that Emerson is playing Cayden James - because who else could he be playing? 

Yeah, I sometimes wonder that too, like there might be an added plot twist or something. But then it still just means more for ME to do so it's all good, even if it's all still for James (which I'm still thinking he's playing too).

[insomniadreams88]

13 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, I sometimes wonder that too, like there might be an added plot twist or something. But then it still just means more for ME to do so it's all good, even if it's all still for James (which I'm still thinking he's playing too).

Even if there's a plot twist and he's still playing James, why not announce his character at least? Simply say, "Emerson will be playing James, who was introduced but not seen last year when Helix..." 

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe James isn't going to be James and that's the big twist? 

Or they're trying to build anticipation for Hayden James since he's not a comicbook character. Whereas, Richard Dragon, Promethus and even Adrian James (real name of comics Vigilante) were all Comicbook characters that they could hype?

[way2interested]

I was thinking something along the lines of him either not end up playing James and they'll just reveal something bigger for him (like James is really an alias, he's behind James/Helix, etc.), him playing James but them not initially introducing him as such until a later reveal (like Chase but more of a dual identity business man by day/international hacker by night reveal say at the end of his first episode or something), or something else in general (like he's actually nameless for a good chunk of episodes any they want to keep it that way for press).

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, similar to Chase. He's revealed as Hayden James but, we find out that he's really some comicbook character much later on.

[wonderwall]

18 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yeah that's what I was thinking, similar to Chase. He's revealed as Hayden James but, we find out that he's really some comicbook character much later on.

*Cayden James :)

Also I was wondering why they were being so secretive about him being Cayden James. Their PR strategy this year seems to be hide everything and it's annoying the heck out of me.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks, don't know why I kept thinking it was Hayden.

[BkWurm1]

It's so weird what they are doing with Emerson.  And that they'd tell the audience that Cayden James will appear.  But not put the two together.  Cayden James being just a pseudonym for another character does make a lot of sense.  I wonder who will be the ultimate guy in charge, Dragon or mystery guy.   

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm thinking whoever Emerson is playing will end up being the real Big Bad. I mean, you can't have Kirk Acevedo be the Big Bad when you have the likes of Michael Emerson in the cast, IMO. I wonder if they might pull a Defenders, though ...

Spoiler

which killed Sigourney Weaver and made Elektra the eventual Big Bad.

[statsgirl]

What about Vigilante?  Isn't he supposed to be revealed next season?  Not that I think that's who Emerson is playing but maybe they want people to wonder if ihe might be playing Vigilante. It was a much bigger role than Cayden James.

Edited August 28, 2017 by statsgirl

[LeighAn]

Date Oliver!

Now if only someone took pictures with Emily :(

[bijoux]

10 hours ago, wonderwall said:

*Cayden James :)

I actually thought it was Caden without Y.

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

What about Vigilante?  Isn't he supposed to be revealed next season?  Not that I think that's who Emerson is playing but maybe they want people to wonder if ihe might be playing Vigilante. It was a much bigger role than Cayden James.

I could be wrong, but didn't they say/imply that Vigilante will be revealed to be someone already on the show? Or was it just that they'd go back to his story in S6?

[insomniadreams88]

Date Oliver looks really good. 

43 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I could be wrong, but didn't they say/imply that Vigilante will be revealed to be someone already on the show? Or was it just that they'd go back to his story in S6?

I'm almost positive they said Vigilante is someone we've seen before. 

I wish they'd give us more about Vigilante in S6. I want to be looking forward to that reveal, but I'm just not since they've drawn it out since the beginning of last season. 

[tv echo]

Cayden James. See screenshot at 0:19 mark of this 519 producer's preview video...

ETA:  As for the Vigilante, MG said that the person is someone we've seen before.

Edited August 28, 2017 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I know MG said that Vigilante is going to be someone we've seen before but not everyone knows that.  I was just speculating that maybe they're not saying who Emerson is playing is because they want people to think "Is he playing Cayden James?  Is he going to be the Vigilante?  Who is he going to play?"

Otherwise it's just too obvious that he'll be Cayden James.

I know MG said that Vigilante is going to be someone we've seen before but not everyone knows that.  I was just speculating that maybe they're not saying who Emerson is playing is because they want people to think "Is he playing Cayden James?  Is he going to be the Vigilante?  Who is he going to play?"

Otherwise it's just too obvious that he'll be Cayden James, especially since it's a character similar to one he's played before.

[TrueMyth]

Emerson is so far off the body type of Vigilante that I kind of want him to be that just because.

[LeighAn]

Well Marc did say they wanted to give him a role he hasn't played before and usually he's the intelligent creepy evil brains kind of guy so let him do something more action based would be different. But I'm still calling Vigilante being somebody else, someone Oliver will try and redeem to show how far he's come as a person hero by taking someone like season 1 Oliver was and pushing him onto his own journey to be better/evolved.

[Sunshine]

I thought MG said Vigilante was for someone other than Oliver.  

[wonderwall]

If MG really did say that then I'd be intrigued of there were 3 villains - one for each member of OTA. 

Richard Dragon - Oliver
Cayden James - Felicity
Vigilante - Diggle

[statsgirl]

Don't forget BS for Dinah.

I had the impression that Vigilante was for WD and someone else for Diggle but that was just a supposition.

[wonderwall]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Don't forget BS for Dinah.

I had the impression that Vigilante was for WD and someone else for Diggle but that was just a supposition.

no one caaaares about BS/Dinah lol that's B-Story at best lol

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, wonderwall said:

If MG really did say that then I'd be intrigued of there were 3 villains - one for each member of OTA. 

Richard Dragon - Oliver
Cayden James - Felicity
Vigilante - Diggle

Would make sense, although it's interesting if RD is for Oliver that he was last cast, though Oliver does have a lot going on in the first few episodes.

With the LOD on LOT last season the members had different and specific ties to individual Legends, which works for a "villain team" and gives you some variety in characterisation, motivation and skill set for both sides.

I could see Vigilante ending up being for WD as Diggle often ends up short changed on plots like this and "generic vigilante WD vs "generically named vigilante Vigilante" works. But if it's someone we have seen before it would be more satisfying if it did tie into one of the old characters, Oliver obviously making the most sense. Though I guess if it is someone like Pike, Quentin would have reason to be involved too, and those are the only scenes I can say I kinda enjoy with WD as opposed to meh or ignore. Though most of Quentin's limited screentime will probably be used in BS vs BC I would imagine (assuming he survives).

1 hour ago, wonderwall said:

no one caaaares about BS/Dinah lol that's B-Story at best lol

If that does end up being the case (which is looking fairly likely from the limited info we have right now) it does make me wonder about KC coming back. I know everyone needs money and she knows the show, cast/crew, city etc, but to come back for an arc centred around being an antagonist for her replacement? That's got to be hard to swallow for an actress who already had Black Canary, sorry "Canary" given to another actress who is now basically as close as it comes to the lead on a spin off and then replaced as the Love Interest for what is still currently the show's main ship. For her not to even be Oliver's main antagonist is a bit galling and it's not like they treated the character particularly well in her appearances so far with all the meta shade being thrown around. I wonder what promises they made her? Though all of this doesn't preclude a "redemption arc" later on I suppose, though it's not exactly looking good right now.

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

If MG really did say that then I'd be intrigued of there were 3 villains - one for each member of OTA. 

Richard Dragon - Oliver
Cayden James - Felicity
Vigilante - Diggle

I think Diggle is going to get a piece of Richard Dragon.  He has ties to him in the comics kind of how Oliver did to Chase.  Only Oliver as the GA got the blame for what Diggle in the GA suite had done.  

[way2interested]

Yeah, I think Diggle's going to draw Dragon into coming after the team along with Felicity probably drawing James against the team (even though both in a way have enough to just go after Oliver as a block from a goal like Church or merely the fact that the team/Oliver were trying to stop Helix from saving James in the first place) while Oliver will have to actually take them on with the rest of the team.

[Morrigan2575]

9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

If MG really did say that then I'd be intrigued of there were 3 villains - one for each member of OTA. 

Richard Dragon - Oliver
Cayden James - Felicity
Vigilante - Diggle

I might switch Richard Dragon to Diggle but, it's hard to tell.  Richard Dragon has more of a GA comics name, so I would think he'd have to go to GA.  However, in Nu52 (From what I remember) GA was tied more towards Diggle than Oliver so they could go with Diggle/Dragon and GA/Vigilante since they did kind of tie those two together (especially if Vigilante is Pike) in S5

[tv echo]

Here's hoping...

[insomniadreams88]

I only want another trailer before the premiere if it shows more than just more of Oliver and William, Slade, BC vs. BS and the island exploding. If they're going to still pretend that everyone could be dead up until the premiere (despite interviews/casting news for other shows like The Flash), they can wait until the day after the premiere to release a new trailer. 

[Sunshine]

I'm aware that the main characters are alive, although Thea's status is uncertain.  I find it interesting (not really) that for S6 - which is a new beginning for Oliver- the confirmed characters to the general audience are Green Arrow, Black Canary, Deathstroke, and Black Siren.

[Chaser]

I've seen this used as an argument that that proves their popularity (and direction). It doesn't. There is a reason Felicity was used as the big S4 red herring. There is a reason they used her survival as the big cliffhanger in S4. People cared.

Them confirming BC and BS survived is them saying these are the characters that aren't going to give us the most traction and (added bonus) they are action characters we can use for our action promos.

[Belinea]

36 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

the confirmed characters to the general audience are Green Arrow, Black Canary, Deathstroke, and Black Siren.

I could be rude  and say that might be because nobody cares that much about whether some people on that list are alive. It is not like people are really tuning in to see if Black Siren made it. They are tuning in to see if Felicity and Diggle and Thea and Quentin are ok. 

But I get what you are saying, they might try to get comic book people on board with their promotional campaign. Finally a show full of masks. 

I am curious when they start promoting the fact that the show switched nights. Will they even do that?

[Midnight Lullaby]

It seems pretty obvious to me that they are leaving the doubt about the faith of the characters they think the audience cares the most about..people don't come back after a long hiatus to see what happened if they don't care about the aftermath of the cliffhanger..

[wonderwall]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I've seen this used as an argument that that proves their popularity (and direction). It doesn't. There is a reason Felicity was used as the big S4 red herring. There is a reason they used her survival as the big cliffhanger in S4. People cared.

Them confirming BC and BS survived is them saying these are the characters that aren't going to give us the most traction and (added bonus) they are action characters we can use for our action promos.

The argument can go both ways and no one can really prove what the writers are thinking unless they outright state it.

But I agree with you in that Felicity is deemed the one people will most care about that's why they're extending her "is she dead?!" non-mystery. But does this mean that people don't care about BS/BC? 

Well on the one hand if you use the same logic as you used for Felicity - one could surmise that they revealed they're alive right off the bat because people don't care about whether they live or die as much. OR The writers/PR think that they're enough to get people to tune in...

But to be honest - I think they're more banking on people coming back to the season 6 premier to answer the question of who's alive. So I'd tend to go with the former than the latter. 

[Guest]

I just assumed they had BC,BS and Slade in the trailer as they're comic book characters they can use for action shots in the promo. Otherwise it would've just been Oliver and William. Haha.

But I don't want a new trailer if they're gonna keep acting like everyone I like is dead and my faves are nowhere to be seen. No thanks.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Guest

[Featherhat]

19 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I just assumed they had BC,BS and Slade in the trailer as they're comic book characters they can use for action shots in the promo. Otherwise it would've just been Oliver and William. Haha.

Comic book action and the fact that BC and BS both just signed new regular contracts so no one would think they were dead for a second. Deathstroke is a fan favourite so he hypes up a lot of people I guess. It could be partly for the Comics! Masks! Crowd but I do think the biggest reason is they're "pretending" longterm fan faves could be dead for the "suspense". Absolutely none of the factions of the audience would get interested by a Oliver/William only trailer. We know there's a few potentially good "non action" plots coming up so hopefully once the "suspense" is out of the way they'll promo the he'll out of that. It's not like all the focus on Masks!Comics!Fights! Got them good ratings in 5A. Right now they'd better hope the cliffhanger worked.

[Sunshine]

Oops. I was just making an observation not trying to imply anything one way or the other.  

[Sunshine]

21 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

 Right now they'd better hope the cliffhanger worked.

Generally speaking I liked S5, including 5A, but for me the finale was more a "Now might be a good time to walk away" moment than a "Oh my gosh. Who survives?" moment.  It might be different if Oliver was one of my top 3 favorites but he's not. Right now the main reason to tune in (for me) is the switch to Thursday. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing else on Thursday nights that interests me.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Sunshine said:

Generally speaking I liked S5, including 5A, but for me the finale was more a "Now might be a good time to walk away" moment than a "Oh my gosh. Who survives?" moment.  It might be different if Oliver was one of my top 3 favorites but he's not. Right now the main reason to tune in (for me) is the switch to Thursday. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing else on Thursday nights that interests me.

I think the cliff hanger is probably more effective than we give it credit for.  I'm pretty sure even if Olicity had been still ignored in the finale I would want to see what happened when they picked up in six.  And that's being certain the ones I most care about are fine.  They probably are a bit stupid for confirming no romantic kisses though.  That WAS one of the things I was tuning in for, lol.  Though maybe they aren't worried about luring the shippers back.  

 

I half feel like the show really isn't starting until the following week.  601 is going to be so much filler.  

Edited August 29, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

It's not like all the focus on Masks!Comics!Fights! Got them good ratings in 5A. Right now they'd better hope the cliffhanger worked.

It did get them lots of positives from the comic book stans though.  So as a strategy it seems to make good sense  -- the fight-focused trailers will pull in the comic book crowd who hate the idea of Olicity and the Felicity/Diggle/Thea/Quentin cliff-hanger will pull in the rest of the audeince.

[insomniadreams88]

I wonder if DR's post (in Spoilers Only) is because of the Oliver-Diggle conflict or simply due to the nature of the recent episodes they're filming, with SA not appearing to film much for 604 and 605/606 the Slade episodes.

12 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I half feel like the show really isn't starting until the following week.  601 is going to be so much filler.  

Probably, especially since it will probably be FB revealing X is alive, present-day scene, FB revealing Y is alive, present day scene, etc. until whatever they deem will be a TWIST! (but might be something we'll have already been spoiled for) to end the premiere. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I wonder if DR's post (in Spoilers Only) is because of the Oliver-Diggle conflict or simply due to the nature of the recent episodes they're filming, with SA not appearing to film much for 604 and 605/606 the Slade episodes.

Probably, especially since it will probably be FB revealing X is alive, present-day scene, FB revealing Y is alive, present day scene, etc. until whatever they deem will be a TWIST! (but might be something we'll have already been spoiled for) to end the premiere. 

Could also just be the way their scenes are scheduled. If they filmed together at the start of 504 and then don't film again until the end of 505 that's about 2.5 weeks (including weekends) between seeing each other.

[BkWurm1]

Plus if Oliver has hung up the mask for now for William, SA wouldn't be in many Bunker or team scenes.  

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Plus if Oliver has hung up the mask for now for William, SA wouldn't be in many Bunker or team scenes.  

That sounds like the worst idea ever. How can they have a show called Arrow without the lead male, you know, being Arrow? Haha.

Let's hope that plot doesn't last long, if that is what's happening. Unless I've missed some spoilers somewhere. IDK.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Guest

[leopardprint]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

That sounds like the worst idea ever. How can they have a show called Arrow without the lead male, you know, being Arrow? Haha.

Let's hope that plot doesn't last long, if that is what's happening. Unless I've missed some spoilers somewhere. IDK.

Idk, I wonder if they are going to get the complaints from S4 about Olicity for Olison, that Olicity took too much focus from the fighting/mission. Except if Oliver is spending time away from his son to go be the Arrow he would be a terrible father and Myson isn't a regular so he's going away at some point hopefully. 

It is kind of curious that they are doing a parenthood storyline on Arrow when they are debuting a series that is centered on superhero parenting. 

[LeighAn]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Idk, I wonder if they are going to get the complaints from S4 about Olicity for Olison, that Olicity took too much focus from the fighting/mission. Except if Oliver is spending time away from his son to go be the Arrow he would be a terrible father and Myson isn't a regular so he's going away at some point hopefully.

Let's be real Olicity/Felicity will still be blamed for that.

[statsgirl]

I would  love to see their cognitive dissonance if Oliver quit being the Arrow to spend more time with Myson and Felicity kept working in the bunker.  They'd probably say she drove him to it by refusing to take care of Myson. And if she did offer, they'd say she's pushing herself in where she shouldn't.

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, LeighAn said:

Let's be real Olicity/Felicity will still be blamed for that.

I think the problem is that people find it too easy to blame something they don't like (in this case Olicity/Felicity) for any/all problems on a show. So even if in-show they decide to have Oliver not suit up for a period of time (due to William/maybe the FBI agent becoming suspicious/whatever reason Diggle suits up as GA/etc.), some people will still find a way to blame Olicity/Felicity.

Personally, I wish they'd write in SA's back problems and say that Oliver just needs a break because he's been fighting for so many years and no, not everything is magically healed when it needs to be. Really, the team is big enough now that some of them can take nights off just for the hell of it and not because they've been kidnapped and no one's noticed for a couple of days (like Rene in 522). 

[way2interested]

37 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Plus if Oliver has hung up the mask for now for William, SA wouldn't be in many Bunker or team scenes.  

Is that from something? Since Oliver is suited up in at least 601, what would be the motivation to hang up the mask after already spending 5 months with the kid, unless I guess something might happen in 601?

[Mellowyellow]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think the cliff hanger is probably more effective than we give it credit for.  I'm pretty sure even if Olicity had been still ignored in the finale I would want to see what happened when they picked up in six.  And that's being certain the ones I most care about are fine.  They probably are a bit stupid for confirming no romantic kisses though.  That WAS one of the things I was tuning in for, lol.  Though maybe they aren't worried about luring the shippers back.  

 

I half feel like the show really isn't starting until the following week.  601 is going to be so much filler.  

This! Took the wind right out of my sails! I probably won't watch it until I get confirmation of Felicity air time. I'll be waiting for the date night instead!

[apinknightmare]

Just now, way2interested said:

Is that from something? Since Oliver is suited up in at least 601, what would be the motivation to hang up the mask after already spending 5 months with the kid, unless I guess something might happen in 601?

I think if Oliver hangs up the suit for anything it'll be because there's an FBI agent after him.