Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Buzzyspirit]

Unless those regular contracts that WD & BC got for season 6 prove to be the shorter contracts of tv history, and Curtis is left to rot at the bottom of the China sea, we will have the newbees back and, lets face it, the writers are not done building those characters.

As a die hard fan of OTA, I feel that these writers will never be able to balance the focus between Diggle/Felicity and the newbees to my liking. There are too many people in the Arrow lair, and I'm not even counting Thea/Speedy in that group. We came from Oliver fighting alone a list of villains and their minions, one name per week, only with Diggle's backup in the field (S1) to a Team of 5 Masked heroes fighting the same type of threats in the field, for season 6. So maybe Oliver needs to spend time being the Mayor and a larger team helps that, and they can always create some sort of rotation among the newbees in each episode so that it doesn't feel crowded.

Still, something should be different in season 6 if they want to keep the audience interested and the stakes from previous seasons. And they have to find a Big Bad/a group of villains that is able to at least do as good as Promy did this year.

[leopardprint]

40 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

MG said that they already know what the arcs for Diggle and Felicity will be next season.  Take that as you will.

They said that about this season, too. I'm not sure if what Diggle had qualified as a storyline since it mostly took place offscreen and Felicity's arc eh I really liked the idea of it but I hated the tie in to Oliver's storyline. 

Ideally the show would like 50% Oliver, 25% OTA + Thea + Lance, 10% Olicity, and remaining 15% for Team B & recurring characters. I should go look up season screentime and see how it actually breaks down. 

[way2interested]

Just speculating with my general audience friends, but we were wondering if the "survivors" won't be as cut and dry as live or die come 601. Like, certain people would definitely be alive come/throughout the premiere (Felicity, probably Rene and Dinah), while some are not necessarily dead but just not in the picture or have some sort of medical thing happening to them. Someone could be thought to be dead but actually stuck on the island alone (maybe BS as the only surviving villain), or someone could be in a coma or in the hospital recovering or something (I could see Curtis, Diggle, or Lance). 

We were just trying to early theorize what the premiere twist would be and one of them suggested that they reveal that a character is in the hospital by the end of the episode (she guessed Diggle or Lance) while they show someone left on the island (guessing BS). If not, one of my other friends guessed that Samantha was in the hospital and that's how they'd kind of bridge the gap of having Oliver being a pseudo-active parent without it being too permanent if they don't just have them leave off-screen altogether again.

[tv echo]

Here's a point in favor of Samantha being killed or seriously injured...

Why did Chase bother kidnapping Samantha in the first place? He didn't need her. He only needed Oliver's son and Oliver's friends/family. Samantha is only Oliver's former one-night stand and current acquaintance. Sure, she matters to William, but Chase isn't interested in hurting William for William's sake. He's only interested in Oliver. He's also not interested in making William an orphan. After all, Chase grew up with a mother.  So the only reason for Samantha to be on the island is to kill her off or, as suggested above, incapacitate her temporarily. Unfortunately, it certainly looks like we're stuck with William to some degree next season.

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

Can I just say that if in 601, we find out everyone survived because they got to the ARGUS prison bunker or something like that in time, I'm going to be annoyed that Adrian "I'm so many steps ahead of you Oliver" Chase apparently didn't rig it with explosives when he talked to Boomerang? Although, I guess he and Slade were in different prison bunkers? But still, Chase could have sent someone to rig Slade's prison after he was out.

Edited May 25, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[leopardprint]

Chase plans almost all amounted to nothing though except for poor Billy but no one cares about him. By nothing I mean by what Chase himself wanted to achieve other than bringing Myson back into Oliver's orbit and trapping Olicity together. I think this is why the S1 finale was so great because Merlyn (imo) somewhat succeeded and there were real, tangible losses. 

If Chase had been played by anyone other than JS he would have been laughable. 

@way2interested, I think that's definitely the direction they are heading in. Ugh, @tv echo, that is terrible and makes sense.

So splitting the difference, we get Samantha in a coma while Oliver bonds with hisson until the writers get tired of him and send him home. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[tv echo]

Remember this WM comment? ...

Quote

-- WM: "We're going to have a big bang of an ending [for Season 5], and we're not going to know really the outcome until the end of season 6." (Apr. 24, 2017 ComicBook article, page 1 of New Spoilers thread)

Did she misspeak or not?

Edited May 25, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

And remember this MG comment?...

Quote

-- On whether the S6 villain will be teased during the S5 finale, MG: "Kinda?" (May 10, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 2 of New Spoilers thread)

In 523, Felicity mentioned her father. Any other possible candidates mentioned in the finale?

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

And remember this MG comment?...

In 523, Felicity mentioned her father. Any other possible candidates mentioned in the finale?

William? ??

[calliope1975]

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

William? ??

Arrow's most formidable foe yet! - a quote by MG probably

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

In 523, Felicity mentioned her father. Any other possible candidates mentioned in the finale?

Joe Wilson, Anatoly, any of the villains left on the island (like if it's a group of villains that say BS is in, then her being in 523 is "kinda" showing the villain but BS isn't really the main villain), Samantha, the true villain of the series besides Malcolm who's now "dead"

[leopardprint]

William is the S6 villain for the audience. 

I wish they would do a "realistic" big bad with Anatoly and the Bratva. It could incorporate the Mayor's office in well.

ETA: Wait, doesn't Batman have a pseudo evil child in the comics? 

Why did you put that out there, @Morrigan2575? 

Edited May 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[Belinea]

28 minutes ago, tv echo said:

 

And remember this MG comment?...

Quote

-- On whether the S6 villain will be teased during the S5 finale, MG: "Kinda?" (May 10, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 2 of New Spoilers thread)

 

I just thought he meant BS. But maybe he could have referred to someone else... I assumed the Bravta and Helix guy would be the big contenders for main big bad next season.

[insomniadreams88]

Maybe Black Siren is going to be really pissed that "daddy" sided with the woman she says is replacing her - even though she's not actually replacing her and I'm kind of worried that Black Siren is going to start thinking she's E1 LL? 

[calliope1975]

I'm puzzled how BS will be any kind of foe next year based on that dismal performance/scenes last night. BS isn't even that great a lackey.

Now, tell me Nyssa's turned evil, and you have my attention.

[leopardprint]

If they make BS just out for her own interests like a bank robber or seomthing instead of actively against TA, I think she could work. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm puzzled how BS will be any kind of foe next year based on that dismal performance/scenes last night. BS isn't even that great a lackey.

I'm curious if she'll learn to duck or will become Arrow's version of Wile E. Coyote.

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Remember this WM comment? ...

Did she misspeak or not?

I just read that,  and I hope so.   Because while I know everyone survives mostly,  I'm not going to be sitting around all next year waiting to find out what happened to Nyssa, Talia or Diggle. 

[TyranAmiros]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Here's a point in favor of Samantha being killed or seriously injured...

Why did Chase bother kidnapping Samantha in the first place? He didn't need her. He only needed Oliver's son and Oliver's friends/family. Samantha is only Oliver's former one-night stand and current acquaintance. Sure, she matters to William, but Chase isn't interested in hurting William for William's sake. He's only interested in Oliver. He's also not interested in making William an orphan. After all, Chase grew up with a mother.  So the only reason for Samantha to be on the island is to kill her off or, as suggested above, incapacitate her temporarily. Unfortunately, it certainly looks like we're stuck with William to some degree next season.

Probably so Samantha wouldn't run to Oliver too early. Assuming Samantha/William were kidnapped first, if only William was kidnapped, Samantha would have gone to Oliver and he would have come running immediately, possibly before Chase finished setting up his own arrest and the like. With Samantha kidnapped, there wasn't anyone to let Oliver know it was going on.

[Belinea]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I'm curious if she'll learn to duck or will become Arrow's version of Wile E. Coyote.

Maybe she is meant to be comic relief? Look, we have funny villains, too...

[statsgirl]

5 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

I'm kinda worried about Samantha dying but idk I feel like if we were getting stuck with the kid they would have bothered to give him some scene to show his personality or something.I mean I don't think the kid even spoke,you could replace him with a lifesized doll and it would barely make a difference at this point lol.And I think they would have recast him,he already looks way too old for the age he's supposed to be,it's just going to get more noticeable in season 6.

I don't know why they didn't recast him if they were going to use him next season. At this point, a lifesized doll would do better.

3 hours ago, leopardprint said:

They said that about this season, too. I'm not sure if what Diggle had qualified as a storyline since it mostly took place offscreen

At least we know he'll be back.  I'm hoping that now that the n00bs have been set up they will spend less time on them and more on OTA + Thea  + Quentin

 

17 minutes ago, TyranAmiros said:

Probably so Samantha wouldn't run to Oliver too early. Assuming Samantha/William were kidnapped first, if only William was kidnapped, Samantha would have gone to Oliver and he would have come running immediately, possibly before Chase finished setting up his own arrest and the like. With Samantha kidnapped, there wasn't anyone to let Oliver know it was going on.

Chase learned from studying Darhk's strategy last season.

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

William? ??

Well, that season description did say enemies from Oliver's past, and he is the literal fruit of Oliver's past.

[Sunshine]

Was Chase's plane a seaplane?  I didn't pay close attention.  If so wouldn't it float even if they couldn't fly it?  Push it in the water and wait it out.   I think 10 people (F,T,D,Q,D,R,C,S,N,DS) could fit on the boat Oliver is on between front and back.  Radio for help.  Bad guys are on their own. They probably made a run for it when they regained consciousness. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Sunshine

[BkWurm1]

17 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Pretty much what i think will happen, accept I think Samantha is dead ☺

 

13 hours ago, tv echo said:

Here's a point in favor of Samantha being killed or seriously injured...

Why did Chase bother kidnapping Samantha in the first place? He didn't need her. He only needed Oliver's son and Oliver's friends/family. Samantha is only Oliver's former one-night stand and current acquaintance. Sure, she matters to William, but Chase isn't interested in hurting William for William's sake. He's only interested in Oliver. He's also not interested in making William an orphan. After all, Chase grew up with a mother.  So the only reason for Samantha to be on the island is to kill her off or, as suggested above, incapacitate her temporarily. Unfortunately, it certainly looks like we're stuck with William to some degree next season.

I was looking at TV Echo's compilation of season 6 stuff and the below stood out to me as a reason to worry that Myson will be around.  

Quote

, but, um, believe it or not, we're already starting to talk about Season 6 and, um, one of the conversations Wendy Mericle and I were having yesterday was, 'What is the state of Oliver's, you know, willingness to kill, post-Season 5?' Um, and, I think, uh, you know - I think you'll have to tune in to Season 6 to find out the answer to that. But I'm, you know - I'm very excited about the fact that we're - you know, at the end of Season 5, getting into Season 6, really getting into, I think, some very nuanced, uh, sort of storytelling. I mean, the - the psychology on the show has become in my mind deliciously messy, um, if not - like I said, we've moved away from sort of very binary sort of storytelling, where it was either left - Oliver was faced with the choice of going left or right. You know, now it's a choice between going left, right or tomato... the path before him is a lot less clear cut. Um, and sort of to that end, one thing we want to do, moving into Season 6, is really evolve Oliver, um, and - and put him in some positions that we haven't put him in before.

I know the conversation begins centered on the question of if Oliver will kill or not kill in season 6, but the comment about putting him in some positions that we haven't put him in before really made me think "father."  Would having William actually in his life change the way he was as the Green Arrow? 

Initially I was worried that meant Samantha was dead but now I can see them just have her in coma for a few early episodes and then sending them off to live just a bit away.  

Also, could the reason that Myson didn't get to have a line be because they ARE planning on recasting over the summer?  I find it really suspect that his only line happened in a shaky hand held phone.  My first instinct was he stayed off screen and then silent because they had to work with him so much to even get that much of an acting job out of him.  

Edited May 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

@BkWurm1 maybe the new Myson will be charming and funny and we'd be fine with him. This one was just awful. 

[BkWurm1]

The alternative is the only thing they plan for him is walking in and out of the scene and occasionally just standing there while Oliver delivers some kind of speech to him based on the lesson he learned in that week's episode.  

[BkWurm1]

Another couple tidbits that stand out from TvEcho's Library.  This time about Felicity.

Quote

On Felicity's S6 storyline, MG: "I don’t want to over-hype anything – I’ve been burned before – but we have a storyline for Felicity in Season 6 that we wanted to do in Season 5 and that fans have been clamoring for. (And before you hit me back, NO we’re not doing it because fans were clamoring for it.)" (Apr. 14, 2017 MG tumblr post, page 58 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- Felicity may seek a future away from Team Arrow. WM: "We hinted at it last year, which is when she had quit the team and she was like, I'd really like to do something. There are other ways to do good in the world and to fulfill her own personal mission, and going forward, especially in coming seasons, that is something she very much wants to do, and we really want to explore for her... We talk in the writers room a lot about giving Felicity something that is not on the team and has nothing to do with Oliver and is very much her own thing, and that's something I think we really look forward to in season six." (Apr. 26, 2017 Eonline article, page 1 of New Spoilers thread)

 

So it seems that Helix wasn't the much hyped thing they were promising last summer that wasn't going to have anything to do with Oliver.  

Since the best guess about what that would have been was starting her own company, and we did get that tease in the 100th episode, I'm going to also guess that initially, Cutis' lie to Paul about them working together might not have been intended to be a total lie (but probably always an exaggeration to cover for his time in the bunker) but the show punted the storyline down the road.  And maybe a nod to that dropped arc was why Smoak Industries (Inc? Corp?) was WHY they had that in 100th episode.  It always had seemed to me so random a thing to put into the 100th.    

Edited May 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

The alternative is the only thing they plan for him is walking in and out of the scene and occasionally just standing there while Oliver delivers some kind of speech to him based on the lesson he learned in that week's episode.  

Haha honestly 5A has taught me to block so much crap out this wouldn't bother me too much either as long as I get a good dose of Olicity and OTA.

I'm afraid the days of hoping they'll give up on Spawn are gone. 

[leopardprint]

7 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha honestly 5A has taught me to block so much crap out this wouldn't bother me too much either as long as I get a good dose of Olicity and OTA.

I'm afraid the days of hoping they'll give up on Spawn are gone. 

I'm on the opposite end of the reaction spectrum. The kid's appearance in now ruining fan works for me which didn't happen prior to 523. All the "myson" now have me knee jerk scrolling past any mention. I need to make an appointment with Dr. Deathstroke to help me work though it. 

[statsgirl]

8 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Initially I was worried that meant Samantha was dead but now I can see them just have her in coma for a few early episodes and then sending them off to live just a bit away. 

Also, could the reason that Myson didn't get to have a line be because they ARE planning on recasting over the summer?  I find it really suspect that his only line happened in a shaky hand held phone.  My first instinct was he stayed off screen and then silent because they had to work with him so much to even get that much of an acting job out of him. 

Samantha in a coma would make sense to show Oliver acting as a father but also limit our exposure to the dead weight.

I love your optimism that they are going to recast him.  I don't know why they didn't for this episode, the distance between 4x15 and 5x23 is greater than 5x23 and 6x01.

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So it seems that Helix wasn't the much hyped thing they were promising last summer that wasn't going to have anything to do with Oliver.  

Since the best guess about what that would have been was starting her own company, and we did get that tease in the 100th episode, I'm going to also guess that initially, Cutis' lie to Paul about them working together might not have been intended to be a total lie (but probably always an exaggeration to cover for his time in the bunker) but the show punted the storyline down the road.  And maybe a nod to that dropped arc was why Smoak Industries (Inc? Corp?) was WHY they had that in 100th episode.  It always had seemed to me so random a thing to put into the 100th.   

If that's true, that it's a set-up for something they pushed back to the next season (shades of Felicity's origin story which was pushed back a season and thenthe same for her father), then it takes away a little of the bitterness I feel about having Felicity barely in the 100th episode comics love-in.

[leopardprint]

It would be awesome to see Felicity and Curtis work on Smoak Tech but I am super wary of previously tabled storylines being used because that's how we got Susan ?. (Are we sure she wasn't the S5 Big Bad?)

What are the Felicity storylines people have been asking for?

• Smoak Tech
• Dad
• Olicitot 

Felicity and Diggle (and Thea) getting separate independent storylines would make me excited about S6. I want Thea to be Speedy again! ?

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I'm on the opposite end of the reaction spectrum. The kid's appearance in now ruining fan works for me which didn't happen prior to 523. All the "myson" now have me knee jerk scrolling past any mention. I need to make an appointment with Dr. Deathstroke to help me work though it. 

Ha,ha.  I did have the same reaction the night of the premiere.  Two fan fics were posted withing a couple hours.  One let the kid speak and suddenly the other one was my hands down favorite, lol.  But honestly, that was just a temporary reaction.  Normally the kid in the fics doesn't bother me and if Myson is going to be given the weight of all of Oliver's devotion then I welcome the show actually building up their relationship.  In theory, I have nothing against the story line.  It's the execution that makes me wary.  

Also, I probably shouldn't be so certain the fault is on the kid actor or that he can't do better given the chance.  I mean, there have been a a lot of adult actors that I knew and loved that came on Arrow and were just flat and hollow.  If they don't get the right material or direction, (and we're not lucky enough to have an EBR that knows better than the director where to take the character) there's not much the actor can do.  

Plus, Myson as a child is never going to get much attention in the regular narrative.  As MG likes to say, that's not the kind of place where this show lives.  At this point it's not like having the kid around is going to cause more problems for Oliver and Felicity.  Or at least nothing that last past an episode, I'm sure. He's around, he's not around, he has lines or he's all off screen, really, it's not going to greatly impact the show.  Not like adding Rene or the other newbs did.    

Edited May 26, 2017 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

Was it @LeighAn who mentioned doing a tally of our predictions over the season? Watching the reel in Social Media I remembered that I was pretty convinced Thea would be coming back to the team and her Speedy suit by the end of the season after they had her suit up in the premiere. I'm still not convinced that wasn't the original plan, but then WH's episode count got smaller and they needed a new BC, so things went in the opposite direction. One day, I'd really like to know how plans changed over the course of filming. I still don't buy Susan was supposed to end how she did when her character had first shown up either.

[LeighAn]

22 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Was it @LeighAn who mentioned doing a tally of our predictions over the season? Watching the reel in Social Media I remembered that I was pretty convinced Thea would be coming back to the team and her Speedy suit by the end of the season after they had her suit up in the premiere. I'm still not convinced that wasn't the original plan, but then WH's episode count got smaller and they needed a new BC, so things went in the opposite direction. One day, I'd really like to know how plans changed over the course of filming. I still don't buy Susan was supposed to end how she did when her character had first shown up either.

Yep.

Also I too thought Speedy would come back. :'(

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

I still don't buy Susan was supposed to end how she did when her character had first shown up either.

Since MG can't talk about the S6 characters other than Oliver and Myson, perhaps he'd be willing to shed some light on whatever the heck was supposed to happen here. I know better to just forget and move on but I am sooooooo curious. 

[statsgirl]

Maybe if someone on tumblr asked politely like "Did you originally intended for Susan to have a bigger role in the Chase storyline?" instead of the usual "Susan is useless. Why is she still on?", he might answer.

[Velocity23]

[Velocity23]

[Morrigan2575]

I really, really, really hope that he's only talking about flashbacks in 601. Please do not drag that shit out all season long.

[Velocity23]

[LeighAn]

Interesting how they are going I bring him back with a bullet in his head?

Maybe they do a Legends of Tomorrow change the timeline thing? Ha

[Velocity23]

Vigilante. 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Interesting how they are going I bring him back with a bullet in his head?

Maybe they do a Legends of Tomorrow change the timeline thing? Ha

Talia is an Al Ghul she could have her own LP or a supply of LP water.

[strikera0]

LOL, maybe Vigilante is Chase's twin brother after all. 

[LeighAn]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Talia is an Al Ghul she could have her own LP or a supply of LP water.

I feel like it's going to be very convuluted and silly. But hey I love Josh/Chase so I'm willing to suspend belief. 

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I feel like it's going to be very convuluted and silly. But hey I love Josh/Chase so I'm willing to suspend belief. 

It could also be very simple,  we see Chase in flashbacks setting up his team to escape.  So we get Evelyn, Talia and BS with Chase prior to events in 523.

I can't imagine them keeping Chase alive (unless he's in a coma with massive brain damage - typical comic storyline).

[Mrs. de Winter]

My first thought was the twin thing too (you know because this show is only soapy when it comes to relationships :) :) ).   I like the setting-up the team idea too.

Perhaps he left a few videos behind to torment Oliver and also where he plans to out Oliver as GA?  

[tv echo]

What do you think the odds are that we find out in 601 that Oliver thought everyone was dead and was separated from them all summer? Here's a possible scenario (some of this would be revealed in flashbacks)...

There's no way that Oliver doesn't go back to the island to check for survivors. So maybe he goes back and doesn't find anyone - not even bodies. But he finds a collapsed temple, other collapsed structures (too heavy for him to move), and large sinkholes all over the place, and is forced to assume that everyone died. He returns to Star City with William and starts to rebuild his life over the summer for his son's sake. He's still Mayor but gives up being the Green Arrow.

Meanwhile, Slade had gotten everyone safely into an old bomb shelter, underground bunker or cave (or whatever) that he knew about, but that Oliver didn't know about. Maybe one or two people are injured (or perhaps killed). They have no way to communicate with the outside world because their comms were damaged. It takes months for Felicity and Curtis to restore or rig up some kind of communications device that allows them to hail a nearby ship (it takes this long to scrounge around the island or dig through massive amounts of rubble to find the necessary parts). They finally return to Star City in the S6 premiere. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

So will all of Team Arrow be like S1 Oliver then? ?I like it. 

I think Oliver would be dumb enough to just shrug his shoulders and leave but Lyla would want a body and she has the man power for it. 

I like JS but I kind of liked the idea of Pike as Vigilante. Perhaps there will still be parts of Chase's plan to deal with in 6A, he's 102847292840 steps ahead. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by leopardprint

[tangerine95]

Maybe but idk how they stay on the island,I mean there's not much left of it anyway.Plus even if Oliver looked and found no one,I would find it hard to believe Lyla didn't come back with Argus to search.