Spoiler Discussion Thread

[tv echo]

You know what I'd love? For Samantha to be part of Chase's long con and that they somehow managed to fake William's DNA test last year, so that in fact William isn't Oliver's son, but Chase's son. This would be the "final whammo" that Chase reveals to Oliver. But I realize this is as unlikely as wishing for Susan to be part of Chase's plot, since MG thinks both Susan and Samantha are good people.

Edited April 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I think the last scene of the episode was probably one of the earlier ones filmed, when they had the regulars and not all the guest stars.

[tv echo]

Manu Bennett needs to give it up...

"As @mguggenheim #arrow confirmed, they are using my voice. As for who's inside the cell & behind the mask?THAT'S STILL ARGUABLE."
https://twitter.com/manubennett/status/855897703749828608

Edited April 23, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

[Hiveminder]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Manu Bennett needs to give it up...

"As @mguggenheim #arrow confirmed, they are using my voice. As for who's inside the cell & behind the mask?THAT'S STILL ARGUABLE."
https://twitter.com/manubennett/status/855897703749828608

Lol. Dude needs to chill. 

[BkWurm1]

14 hours ago, tv echo said:

One of the papps also mentioned that they were shooting some in-studio scenes that they couldn't spy on. So it's impossible to tell which characters are in the final scene of 523.

Nevertheless, it does appear that SA shot some finale stuff apart from the rest of the cast. Does anyone think that they'll pull a Nikita and have the cliffhanger be Oliver leaving to go live (safely) with his son, presumably after Samantha is killed?

He's still Mayor.  I don't see him moving away.  So there is that at least.  

[tv echo]

19 hours ago, tv echo said:

Manu Bennett needs to give it up...

"As @mguggenheim #arrow confirmed, they are using my voice. As for who's inside the cell & behind the mask?THAT'S STILL ARGUABLE."
https://twitter.com/manubennett/status/855897703749828608

In response to above Manu Bennett tweet , MG tweeted: "He hasn't lied."
https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/856272261799661568

[tv echo]

Gee - and I thought this season was getting praise because it was focusing on "story" and not "drama" (sorry, I saw this headline and couldn't resist taking a jab at a recent MG tumblr post)...

CW's 'Arrow' Teases Major Drama in Final 5 Episodes For Season 5 (Video)
By TooFab Staff | April 20, 2017 12:54 PM
http://toofab.com/2017/04/20/cws-arrow-teases-major-drama-in-final-5-episodes-for-season-5/

Quote

That rumbling sound you hear in the distance is the "Arrow" fandom roaring back to life.

Edited April 24, 2017 by tv echo

[theOAfc]

On 23/4/2017 at 4:48 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Kara/Mon-El havent been together that long and they've already broken up like 5 times

Jeez.

[Velocity23]

[bijoux]

I really like that part about Oliver letting go of Robert's legacy and looking for his own.

[theOAfc]

"is he a killer or a hero?"

All this back and forth is irritating, 5 seasons later. It doesnt even appear as an overall journey,its not a build up to anything. Its like a repeat, again and again,expressed with different words each time. He struggles ,then by end of season everything is fine. Next season same thing. Zero development ,cause then next season he goes back to 0.

I personally dont see a character slowly accepting that he is not a bad person or a ruthless killer,i see a plot device only remembering to struggle over the same thing towards the end of season,because the plot fits, just in time for him to overcome it and be a hero in the season finale,again because the plot fits. Its like the same superhero trope again and again.

Similar to how towards 4x20, oliver out of nowhere started struggling with the dark side of him only for his light to "beat" the villain by the season finale. Beats the villain,proves he has light inside of him. Season ends with the hero beating once again the dark. Then next season,again back to 0 out of nowhere,killing random villains of the week because "dark". Again,is he a hero or a killer? 

Zero depth.

Also,didnt Oliver let got of his father's burden last season,when he became the green arrow ?

Edited April 24, 2017 by theOAfc

[strikera0]

^ Exactly. It's a total rehash of the season 2 finale with Slade when Oliver's decision to not kill him proved that he was a hero. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if we see the same thing again and Oliver will let Chase live for some unfathomable reason. 

[leopardprint]

Didn't he let go of his father's burden when he abandoned the list in S2? 

[theOAfc]

9 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

^ Exactly. It's a total rehash of the season 2 finale with Slade when Oliver's decision to not kill him proved that he was a hero. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if we see the same thing again and Oliver will let Chase live for some unfathomable reason. 

Ι think this is gonna be like a combo of s2 and s4 with oliver killing Chase but accepting that he is not like chase,that he can be a hero(however i think in s3 him killing Ras proved he accepted that he had light inside him despite killing the big bad). The show has nothing more to offer regarding oliver as a character it seems, but variations of previous seasons with him somehow "growing" only to go back to struggling over the same things because plot. Hard for me to see him as more than a character that manpains non stop, when the show fails to present an ongoing struggle with an actual pay off to his personal stories. It worked in s2 ,it didnt work in s4 imo because it appeared randomly and now in s5, it feels more like they ignore s3 and s4 than anything else. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by theOAfc

[Sunshine]

So is "let go of the fate his father burdened him with" confirmation that Malcolm goes bye-bye? :-)

[leopardprint]

I think Malcolm dying while killing Chase would complete the circle so to speak. I think Chase will die but am iffy on Oliver killing him. 

2 hours ago, theOAfc said:

Hard for me to see him as more than a character that manpains non stop, when the show fails to present an ongoing struggle with an actual pay off to his personal stories.

Oliver is in S5 but acting like he's in S1.5. I have not enjoyed him spinning his wheels and chasing his tail this season. I'm wondering since they are definitively closing the chapter on the Island/Monster/Killing if that then does mean they will be bringing William onto the show as the next chapter. 

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, strikera0 said:

^ Exactly. It's a total rehash of the season 2 finale with Slade when Oliver's decision to not kill him proved that he was a hero. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me if we see the same thing again and Oliver will let Chase live for some unfathomable reason. 

Maybe because Oliver needs a reoccurring nemesis to break out of jail every once and awhile and run amuck and Manu seems sort of unhinged?

I'm kind of expecting Oliver to end the season with a no kill rule but no backsies this time.  

Edited April 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[LeighAn]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

All sounds good to me. Lian Yu I'll miss you ? Plus I'm excited to see fully realised hero Oliver and seeing him let go some of his past demons and be unburdened Oliver in season 6. 

I miss 4A Oliver so anything that brings a little of that guy back while at peace with being a hero Im all for.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think Oliver WILL kill Chase but won't feel like he's not a hero for doing so. At least I hope that's where this is going. IMO, the lesson he learned in S2 was too simplistic. There are instances where he HAS to put down somebody bad. I would argue Slade and Chase fit the bill. Even Ra's. It's stupid that this kill or no kill thing is coming up again when he had absolutely no problems killing Ra's and Darhk. His dilemmas and growth are so tied to plot and change from season to season.

[LeighAn]

Gonna sound cynical but I think whether Chase dies will depend on if the writers think they can get more story out of him next season. I think he SHOULD die and have no problem with Oliver killing him but I also know that if these writers think they have a good thing going with this character that they tend to keep their options open. 

[leopardprint]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think Oliver WILL kill Chase but won't feel like he's not a hero for doing so. At least I hope that's where this is going. IMO, the lesson he learned in S2 was too simplistic. There are instances where he HAS to put down somebody bad. I would argue Slade and Chase fit the bill. Even Ra's. It's stupid that this kill or no kill thing is coming up again when he had absolutely no problems killing Ra's and Darhk. His dilemmas and growth are so tied to plot and change from season to season.

Your spec makes sense to me but I do think Chase wants Oliver to kill him so he might not end up being the one to do it. 

53 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Gonna sound cynical but I think whether Chase dies will depend on if the writers think they can get more story out of him next season.

Very true, after all Malcolm Merlyn is way past his sell-by date, though I gather they have made good use of the character elsewhere. They fixate on their side characters to the detriment of the show (coughsusancough). 

I'm fine letting go of Lian Yu if 5A/5B.1 Oliver stays there. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?  

[SmallScreenDiva]

12 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Your spec makes sense to me but I do think Chase wants Oliver to kill him so he might not end up being the one to do it. 

For me it doesn't make much sense for anyone other than Oliver to do it. The dynamic between Chase and Oliver is very personal. He HAS to be the one to kill the big bad. But yeah, if he doesn't kill Chase it's likely because the Arrow thinks it can squeeze more out of Chase (and I've seen fans on Twitter beg the writers not to kill him and to bring him back next season). I really hope not. I've enjoyed Josh's performance once they revealed who he is but I'm tired of characters staying longer than they're supposed to. Kill him off. Kill them all off, including Deathstroke. Make the last 5 years a self-contained story and start afresh next season. This is another reason I'm disappointed they're that BS back. Arrow needs a clean start, IMO.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?  

I had that very thought after reading the TV Line piece earlier today

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?  

I was actually wondering if they'd do that if only because it would ensure that "final farewell" to the island. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?

There has to be some reason that Slade and the others would help Oliver - this seems as good as any (help or blow-up too). 

Maybe the hacks and things Felicity was made to do for Helix give Chase access to whatever he needs to blow the island?  Or he takes over Argus somehow?  I am sure it will be something well thought out making a great deal of sense :)

[BkWurm1]

Just now, insomniadreams88 said:

I was actually wondering if they'd do that if only because it would ensure that "final farewell" to the island. 

Yeah, otherwise what prevents Oliver from going back to get his brood on someday?  

IF they are planning on blowing the island (maybe Argus has some kind of failsafe rigged?) perhaps that is what the body in concrete is about.  Maybe they decided to sent Robert home before they blew up his grave? (The writers).  I feel bad for the rest of the dead though.  

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, otherwise what prevents Oliver from going back to get his brood on someday?  

Don't worry, if the writers decide they need Oliver to go brood on an island at some point in the future and they do blow up Lian Yu, we'll suddenly get flashbacks to a smaller nearby island where Oliver spent some time at some point in those five years (even if it can't fit into the timeline that we have of those five years) - or maybe discovered between seasons 1 and 2 - so he has somewhere to go. 

[leopardprint]

Didn't that Japanese submarine have explosives on it? Or maybe Felicity nuking things is going to become an annual tradition. 

You guys underestimate Oliver Queen, he can brood anywhere. 

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I think Oliver WILL kill Chase but won't feel like he's not a hero for doing so. At least I hope that's where this is going. IMO, the lesson he learned in S2 was too simplistic. There are instances where he HAS to put down somebody bad. I would argue Slade and Chase fit the bill.

If he needs Slade to fight against Chase's bad guys, someone is going to say "Good thing you didn't kill Chase 3 years ago when you wanted to."  If not in-show, then a reviewer of poster.

22 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?  

Kim Jong-un finally gets his show of force.  It's perfect, half Chinese, half American.  A few weeks late for the 85th anniversary but still effective.

The dead are dead, it's the living that concerns me. (Yes, I'm seriously worried about a nuclear was in the near future.)

[strikera0]

Has this article been posted yet?

Quote

Is Arrow Planning A The Walking Dead-Style Season Finale Cliffhanger? It Sounds Like It

During an interview with ComicBook.com earlier today, Arrow executive producer Wendy Mericle referred to the upcoming season finale as a cliffhanger, and indicated that fans might not know who lives and who dies until season six.

Asked about earlier comments that they "might lose someone," and whether that meant traumatized audience members or a death in the cast, Mericle was coy.

"We're going to have a big bang of an ending, and we're not going to know really the outcome until the end of season 6," Mericle told ComicBook.com. "We don't often do cliffhangers in the way that we're doing this season, and we're excited about this ending."

From that quote alone, it certainly sounds like something big and sudden happens, and it's not clear who -- good guys or bad -- survives the event. On Lian Yu, where at least one of the final episodes appears to take place, that could be anything from landmines to natural disasters, to ARGUS finally deciding that the whole experiment has gone too far and it's time to nuke the place from orbit (although it's difficult to imagine that happening with Lyla Michaels, Diggle's wife, currently in charge of the organization).

The giant cliffhanger left open at the end of The Walking Dead's season 6 finale alienated some fans, but drove massive tune-in for the season 7 premiere. It turned out to be kind of a bad investment for The Walking Dead, whose reviews and ratings were down this season (compared, to be fair, to its TRULY MASSIVE previous seasons), but if audiences liked the payoff of such a cliffhanger, presumably building up that huge premiere audience could pay dividends throughout Arrow's sixth season, which will serve as something of a reboot for Oliver and company.

"I feel like we are going to stick the landing with Oliver and ending that chapter," Mericle said of the flashbacks that have served as a kind of backup story in the show's first five seasons. "I hope the fans agree. We've had a really fantastic time writing this season; it's been a blast. Moving forward into season 6, we're not calling it a reboot, because really the show is called Arrow and it's still about Oliver and his team, and that's not changing, but we don't have the flashbacks. What that's going to allow us to do is keep that device when we want it, but we don't have to keep pushing the five year storyline down the road. It gives us a lot more real estate to play around with, a lot more space to hopefully bring in some cool villains and to tell new character stories, and we have a lot of new characters on the show whose backstories we haven't really had the chance to experience."

Arrow airs Wednesday nights at 8 p.m. ET/PT on The CW. The series returns from a mini-hiatus this week to burn through the final episodes of the season, which ends in late May.

http://comicbook.com/2017/04/24/will-arrow-use-the-walking-dead-cliffhanger-in-finale/

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by strikera0

[Guest]

Quote

"We're going to have a big bang of an ending, and we're not going to know really the outcome until the end of season 6," 

Please tell me that's a typo and they don't actually mean the end of s6?!

[leopardprint]

A who lives who dies cliffhanger leading into an increasingly likely writer's strike? Nice knowing you, Arrow. ?

[Primal Slayer]

[way2interested]

I feel like Word Salad Wendy just misspoke again and just repeated "end" since she said ending in the previous clause.

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, leopardprint said:

Didn't that Japanese submarine have explosives on it? Or maybe Felicity nuking things is going to become an annual tradition. 

You guys underestimate Oliver Queen, he can brood anywhere. 

I picture Felicity buying a kiddie pool and putting a mound of sand in the middle of the water.  His own personal island on which to brood.  They can put it on the balcony.  

4 hours ago, way2interested said:

I feel like Word Salad Wendy just misspoke again and just repeated "end" since she said ending in the previous clause.

I also feel like they were exaggerating what she's said in other interviews.  Like that line that "we might lose someone."  There's a big difference between someone not surviving the finale and leaving the fates of many up in air. Something will probably be unresolved but somehow I don't see the cliff hanger to be life or death but more how does that person or persons survive? Even that is hampered since we have the summer time jump.  

Edited April 25, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

TVLine is asking for Arrow questions.  I guess it's time for pre-finale interviews.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Episode [520] theme: Trust, Teamwork and Truth

Sounds great to me.  

Still sad that the watch words that should be the frame work for EVERY episode have only come out to play now in the 20th episode of the season.  It's not true that we don't get nice things, but good golly do they make us wait for it.   

[Mellowyellow]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Sounds great to me.  

Still sad that the watch words that should be the frame work for EVERY episode have only come out to play now in the 20th episode of the season.  It's not true that we don't get nice things, but good golly do they make us wait for it.   

I'm feeling overwhelmingly antsy about this cliffhanger they are dumping on us.

I'm telling myself to just enjoy 520 before I freak out. I NEED them to be together in the hiatus!!!!!

Edited April 25, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[finnaire]

15 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't remember if I ever spec'd this in writing or if I just thought it, but does anyone else wonder if they are planning on blowing up the whole island??  And follow up, how could anyone blow up an island that size without nukes involved?  

I've thought this for a very long time but also wonder how they destroy the whole island.  My other wild theory is a Lost-sequel type ending where the island just disappears. It did have magic, after all.

[leopardprint]

5 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I'm feeling overwhelmingly antsy about this cliffhanger they are dumping on us.

I'm telling myself to just enjoy 520 before I freak out. I NEED them to be together in the hiatus!!!!!

I think, if it's actually a true cliffhanger because they seem confused about the definition, it's going to be something as flimsy as post 309's "Oliver is really, truly, deader than a doornail." I think someone important, Diggle, Felicity or Thea and someone less important will be presumed dead and then one will actually be alive and one will be really dead (for Arrow's definition of death). 

[Sunshine]

In that case, I'd worry for Diggle.

[ladylaw99]

I don't even want to entertain the thought of a real or fake death for Diggle.  

[leopardprint]

Haha, I would probably be more upset at a fake Diggle death than a real death for almost any other character.

Oliver, Felicity and Thea have all "died" or verge of death. Lance or Diggle might be due? 

Edited April 25, 2017 by leopardprint

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Lance or Diggle might be due? 

Lance already "died" in season two's finale.  So yeeah, time to worry about Diggle?

I don't think they'd kill him but maiming might be an option.

[theOAfc]

18 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I honestly find him so irritating. 

 

Unlike with this comic book site i believe what Wendy said could be perceived more as her teasing a flashforward than a WD type of season finale. I think we'll see the characters being on a stable good place by end of season with a chapter(whatever that means) ending and another begining but in the last minute or so a flashforward scene will once again tease a death (not necessarily a grave scene). So the cliffhanger will be that imo. I dont think they will end the season in a similar to walkind dead way,especially since MG has said that theres a 5 or so months hiatus once the season is over(unless he didnt say that). 

[Belinea]

So, I wonder...Will they promote the return of Arrow before tomorrow? Or will they let the sizzle reel do all the talking? Maybe it is enough and I'd just wish for more but I feel like there is not a lot of promotion at the moment...Maybe I personally haven't just seen much.

Edit: I stand corrected. WM seems to give the interview(s) this week...

Edited April 25, 2017 by Belinea

[Morrigan2575]

Eh, nothing earth shattering in that EW interview (new spoiler thread).Mostly same old same old. Although I'm really interested in 519/520. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

Wendy is pushing the "whether they get back together or not", Felicity having a better understanding of where Oliver came from in making some of his choices and that it will deepen their relationship.  But IMO since their working relationship really hash't suffered, the only way to ultimately deepen their relationship is if they ARE getting back together.  

Edited April 25, 2017 by BkWurm1