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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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Sunshine

Sunshine

2 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think what ever they asked her to do in 5x16 she does, but her empathy powers make her guilty and conflicted. And she will carry that for an episode or two before we get to the Oliver to the rescue part

 Why are we so sure Oliver is rescuing her?  This is a hacktivist organization.  Getting in might be easy enough.  Walking away is probably a lot harder because now they definitely have something on you.  The "rescue" needed is possibly outside Oliver's skill set.  Curtis, Diggle and Oliver all try to get through to her.  It sounds to me like she is going to either have to rescue herself or take control of the organization to make it a force for good.

My first thought after MG said the BJ song for Olicity was "Until You Come to Me"  that at the end of 5.23 Felicity will go to Oliver and say "Can we talk..." Fade to hiatus.      

The Segarra interview makes me wonder if Snoozan doesn't get rescued by the end of 5.16.  

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Sunshine

Sunshine

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Or she gets rescued, but by Chase and not by the Green Arrow, lmao

End game to out Oliver Queen as the Green Arrow?

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

The only thing that will fix this absolute garbage fire with Susan and Oliver/Susan is if she turns on him. I just don't get it otherwise. Why does he suddenly care about her so much? I'm so confused. 

If their plan was to ruin Oliver this season, they're doing an epic job. Well done!

Which is kind of strange in the 5th season with the end of the original flashbacks.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Just now, Sunshine said:

End game to out Oliver Queen as the Green Arrow?

Maybe? To have it done by someone Oliver trusts and "cares" about? 

I wonder what he's going to do to make Susan feel betrayed though. I'm guessing maybe it has something to do with something that happened in Russia? There have been too many Russian anvils with her for it not to be involved somehow. And it seems like whatever he would manipulate her with would be the truth...I just can't figure out what exactly he'd use to get her to feel betrayed. 

Sunshine

Sunshine

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Maybe? To have it done by someone Oliver trusts and "cares" about? 

I wonder what he's going to do to make Susan feel betrayed though. I'm guessing maybe it has something to do with something that happened in Russia? There have been too many Russian anvils with her for it not to be involved somehow. And it seems like whatever he would manipulate her with would be the truth...I just can't figure out what exactly he'd use to get her to feel betrayed. 

Maybe she is related to Kovar somehow and Oliver does kill him at some point (5.17 at earliest since he's featured in it).

calliope1975

calliope1975

I am conflicted. On one hand, I truly do not care about Rayporter and if she disappeared forever, I would not give her a second thought. On the other hand, I am curious how/why they are keeping her around. We know she's still filming so is she still a LI? As JS hinted in that interview, does she develop some sort of relationship with him? I also agree with the Russian anvils. 

I care but I don't. It's weird. 

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

I am conflicted. On one hand, I truly do not care about Rayporter and if she disappeared forever, I would not give her a second thought. On the other hand, I am curious how/why they are keeping her around. We know she's still filming so is she still a LI? As JS hinted in that interview, does she develop some sort of relationship with him? I also agree with the Russian anvils. 

I care but I don't. It's weird. 

She's there to make us appreciate Laurel!

I liked Laurel! Are you all repenting for hating Ray and Laurel now that they've given you Witchface Troll in comparison?

tangerine95

tangerine95

Whatever they're doing with her won't be worth doing this to Oliver. It's as bad as BM drama imo. Not even just for olicity but I'm so grossed out with his treatment of Thea. He was so hypocritical and self righteous. This is the sister he was willing to kill and die for basically every season but where he draws the line is Thea getting Susan fired.  An already unethical reporter that's a threat to the secret he killed for and to his whole team. 

I read someone on twitter saying how maybe the point is that Oliver drives everyone away and is left with Susan who decides to work with Prometheus. Like Thea is gone, Felicity working with helix even more, an episode is called disbanded so maybe he loses the team as well for some reason. But idk that they would do that even tho it makes sense because they seem to think they're writing Oliver as trying to be optimistic and live in the light and that what he's doing is a good thing. 

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Trisha

Trisha

20 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I wonder what he's going to do to make Susan feel betrayed though. I'm guessing maybe it has something to do with something that happened in Russia? There have been too many Russian anvils with her for it not to be involved somehow. And it seems like whatever he would manipulate her with would be the truth...I just can't figure out what exactly he'd use to get her to feel betrayed. 

When I saw the promo for next week I was confused why we didn't have a more exciting "cliffhanger" scene of Chase kidnapping Susan (especially because they're not back for two weeks).  But maybe it's because he doesn't really kidnap her? Maybe he tells her everything he knows about Oliver (filling in the blanks of what she already knows and adding his own twisted version of what happened in S1) and she is just pretending to be kidnapped, but for the rest of the season they are actually working together to take Oliver down?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

When I saw the promo for next week I was confused why we didn't have a more exciting "cliffhanger" scene of Chase kidnapping Susan (especially because they're not back for two weeks).  But maybe it's because he doesn't really kidnap her?

I'm guessing he's not using the "life or death" story angle as a way to lure her into Prometheus's clutches, so he must be giving her a legit scoop on something, I just can't figure out what it is. But it seems like that would have to be the thing that gets her to feel betrayed? And I'm not sure how Prometheus would play into it all - is he for sure the one who has her, or is it maybe Bratva-related? I had a rage blackout when I figured out what they were doing so I might've missed something, haha.

Also, are we supposed to believe that Green Arrow is done in Star City? Oliver outed him as a murderer but wtf does it ultimately mean when Green Arrow made a successful case for feeling suitably guilty about it to Pike? The people are just gonna hate him or...what? And now that he's come out against Green Arrow as mayor, does that discount Oliver coming out as Green Arrow? It would make him look nuts, lmao. 

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Also, are we supposed to believe that Green Arrow is done in Star City? Oliver outed him as a murderer but wtf does it ultimately mean when Green Arrow made a successful case for feeling suitably guilty about it to Pike? The people are just gonna hate him or...what? And now that he's come out against Green Arrow as mayor, does that discount Oliver coming out as Green Arrow? It would make him look nuts, lmao. 

Yeah, I honestly have no idea what the plan is there. Maybe Oliver figures that in the annual big May battle, he'll stand on a car as GA, make some big speech and win over everyone? 

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I haven't seen the promo but without that, my guess is

36 minutes ago, Trisha said:

  But maybe it's because he doesn't really kidnap her? Maybe he tells her everything he knows about Oliver (filling in the blanks of what she already knows and adding his own twisted version of what happened in S1) and she is just pretending to be kidnapped, but for the rest of the season they are actually working together to take Oliver down?

Susan should be grateful that Oliver cleared her name but maybe she's only pretending to be on his side.  Chase recruits her to his side because she's vengeful for the plagiarism attack and wants to bring down Oliver and everyone around him.

Like Slade who tried to turn everyone close to Oliver against him and failed, Chase failed with Felicity and Billy but will succeed with Susan.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

(edited)

OK, so in response to someone asking if Oliver is HT, SA replies: (if anyone can embed the tweet my tech challenged self will be forever grateful)

Quote

I think the more accurate reasoning would be that Prometheus' plan is actually working.

Prometheus' plan is to make Oliver act completely out of character? Wut? To make decisions other people see as moronic? To rally behind, defend, and champion a shady reporter he's known all of a minute? Where's he going with this? What am I missing?

Prometheus' plan so far has been to make Oliver suffer and ultimately kill him (I guess.) How and why would that make Oliver behave out of character? 

If this should go to the Oliver Queen thread, let me know. 

Edited by calliope1975
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

You know, I could maybe understand Oliver championing the shady reporter and wanting to be with her if Prometheus had succeeded in turning everyone else against him. Like, if he'd lost his team/support network completely, I could see him grasping at something/someone because there was no one else. But as it stands now? It's OOC nonsense.

Edited by Guest
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

18 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:
Quote

I think the more accurate reasoning would be that Prometheus' plan is actually working.

 

Sorry, Steve. 

Seems like so far his plan isn't working? Oliver's ridiculously hopeful to the point of putting trust in a reporter he should be questioning.  He's trying to guide people on the right path. He's bringing people onto his team, and trying to get them to want better for themselves. GREAT PLAN, VILLAIN!

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Part of the problem is that they haven't given us any reason to like or trust Susan or understand why he's with her other than she's attractive and available.

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

You know, I could understand Oliver championing the shady reporter and wanting to be with her if Prometheus had succeeded in turning everyone else against him. Like, if he'd lost his team/support network completely, I could see him grasping at something/someone because there was no one else. But as it stands now? It's OOC nonsense.

This.  Oliver's got Thea, Diggle, Felicity, Rene, Curtis and now Dinah. Why would he be so desperate for Susan?

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

They almost talked about getting back together but there were smiles that said what the outcome of that conversation would be.  Not sure if he was supposed to have finished it off screen or if they were just interrupted and then Susan kidnapped leaving their status in limbo.

My hope is that it was left ambiguous because the EPs are aware of how badly Oliver's relationship with Snoozan is being taken.  They wanted to leave the impression Oliver and Susan are back together for those who don't hate the relationship but not confirm that they are for those who do.

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Mellowyellow

Mellowyellow

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

 

My hope is that it was left ambiguous because the EPs are aware of how badly Oliver's relationship with Snoozan is being taken.  They wanted to leave the impression Oliver and Susan are back together for those who don't hate the relationship but not confirm that they are for those who do.

OMFG who actually cares about his relationship with that festy tarantula???

What are these people smoking to peddle that rodent troll as anything anyone would want to keep watching!

I'm so hoping I'll make it through that scene with him and Felicity because I do love that dress!

apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)
7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My hope is that it was left ambiguous because the EPs are aware of how badly Oliver's relationship with Snoozan is being taken.  They wanted to leave the impression Oliver and Susan are back together for those who don't hate the relationship but not confirm that they are for those who do.

Did they? I thought it was pretty clear by the way they were smiling at each other before Chase and Quentin interrupted that the answer was going to be yes - and that Oliver was the person she was going to meet for dinner when Chase interrupted her.

It didn't occur to me that it was maybe supposed to be ambiguous, haha.

Edited by apinknightmare
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statsgirl

statsgirl

Don't crush my hopes.  The longer Oliver stays with her, the more irredeemable he is.

Maybe I should offer my thanks to Chase for kidnapping Susan and avoiding Susan having the opportunity to suck more brain cells out.  Damn you doctor-who-told-Oliver-to-go-for-it.

15 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

OMFG who actually cares about his relationship with that festy tarantula???

The TV Fanatic round table were hoping  she would join Team Arrow because they could use her.  (rme)

I'm hoping it's like the end of 5x09 was, where it looked like they slept together but it turned out that was a treat in store for us in 512.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Didn't Chase say something about Oliver stealing his GF earlier this season? (Has anyone transcribed that conversation?) Maybe he lures Susan away from Oliver to his side, and she's going to be in the rest of the episodes as Chase's GF. 

Oh please let this be Oliver's punishment...being saved from himself.  

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lemotomato

lemotomato

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

He could be. I don't think they've ever been in the same place at the same time before. I can't figure out why else he'd be laid up, so maybe he got pushed off a building and then T-Sphered into a coma.

He in the episode alive and well at some other point here:

Capture.JPG.95b1ecd582ac384a35720f5aba358efe.JPG

Maybe he's working with Oliver/GA and gets taken out by Chase

weathered1

weathered1

Okay, that line from Stephen? Is so incredibly stupid, my mind refuses to even take it in. 

Prometheus' plan is working? Um, Prometheus isn't making Oliver act like such a dumbass, and one who is so thoroughly unlikable that he puts getting some from the reporter over and above the relationships that used to be nearest and dearest to him. That's not an evil villain's plan coming to fruition as he sits in a dark room cackling like Mr. Burns - that's Oliver being willfully stupid, selfish, and ridiculously short-sighted. SA saying that and thinking it at all fits what's been on our screens is just so much facepalm material. 

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I think Stephen saying that is half an excuse since he also went with justifying him by tweeting how awful it was for him that Felicity dumped him and half the fact that he knows that Oliver behaving this way is necessary so Prometheus can do whatever his plan for the rest of the season.

But I don't get how none of the people involved with the show seem to understand that it's just bad writing to  bend your lead character over backwards and make him awful and unrecognizable just to push a plot point they want. Like isn't that a basis of writing that you shouldn't put plot over character and yet MG and the rest of the arrow writers seem proud about doing that every time and it's the fans fault that they're not patient enough to see their plans. 

  • Love 13
weathered1

weathered1

^ I agree with that. I think it's a mark of how far Oliver has fallen as a character (and how remarkably terrible the writing is) that Mr. I'm Going to Protect My Character has to resort to excuses that aren't justified by what's been shown. 

We know they've written for plot and that that's pretty much all they care about. What I find truly gobsmacking is how much they've destroyed the show's main character in order to do that - and to do that in such a way that isn't even good or remotely compelling!! It would've been different if we'd seen the things SA mentioned: Oliver being horribly upset and hurt over the end of his relationship with Felicity and hitting rock bottom emotionally. Prometheus notices this - because he sees and knows all - so he sends in Susan who pretends to be a normal, "good" person, yet her subtle (at least to Oliver) machinations separate him from his team. He feels ostracized by them, so he clings with increasing fervency to Susan, the one "normal," "good" thing he has left in his life, and things progress from there. That would've been a story; not necessarily a good one, but an actual story nonetheless. Unfortunately, what we've actually seen is stupid, character-destroying nonsense for which there cannot be any kind of actual, substantive, redemptive payoff for anyone (at least, imho).

  • Love 16
statsgirl

statsgirl

I kind of feel sorry for SA. He's worked so hard to make his character believable, to make the show good and the launchpad for the whole Berlantiverse on CW and his reward is this truly terrible writing for Oliver.  It's not even that Olicity is ruining the show any more, it's the horrible writing that is ruining Oliver. No wonder he's playing Oliver as depressed, the guy probably is and the more scripts he reads, the more depressed he gets.

42 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

There's something almost needy about him.  He wants to destroy Oliver but he also really, really, wants him to like and need him. 

That's the one thing I'm interested in seeing (because I have no faith Felicity's dark arc is going to be anything but a mess after seeing this episode).  It could be such an interesting psychological case study in the hands of better writers.

  • Love 8
insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

I'm rooting for Prometheus. I've liked Chase, so it's not hard.

Even though it looks like the real Oliver isn't locked up somewhere and this is HTOliver, can the real Oliver be locked up somewhere until he realizes what he's done?

I don't get how this is Prometheus' plan working because I feel like 90% of Oliver's stupidity would have still occurred without Prometheus' existence. Oliver is actually doing Prometheus' job for him. 

Maybe Oliver needs to go spend another five years "on an island." Right now, I think I'd rather have Russia FBs Oliver than present-day Oliver. 

So do we think that 515's Felicity/Diggle conversation is the last time they'll talk this season? Considering the past few seasons, I think probably. 

The only way I'll accept that I have to sit through the entire season for it to make sense is if Felicity burns it all down in the finale. Then I'll understand that I was supposed to hate everything so that seeing that makes sense storyline-wise. 

  • Love 4
Belinea

Belinea

28 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

So do we think that 515's Felicity/Diggle conversation is the last time they'll talk this season? Considering the past few seasons, I think probably. 

I think you are probably right. What I find sad is that after all these years, even their talk kind of didn't give me the same feelings it used to. I used to enjoy this, now I am just happy that they remember them before we move on to something utterly boring. It's like winter and you hope one ray of sunshine will warm you until spring. It doesn't.

  • Love 8
Featherhat

Featherhat

I do feel kind of bad for SA since the writing is truly terrible here and he's had to resort to whakadoodle explanations when he used to be so unabashedly positive about OQ. Hey remember *why* your relationship with Felicity ended? This Susan storyline is above all boring, chemistry and sense lacking. It's dumber than the time Oliver slept with Isabel since at least he thought they were nominally "partners". Hell its dumber than the time he blew up his relationship with Laurel by taking her sister on a weeks long trip to China since he was a douchey kid who had never killed tons of people to protect his secrets. it's dumber than the time he slept with Laurel after encouraging Tommy to fight for her. It's dumber than the time he lied to Felicity about William because at least (very least) you could argue he was so emotional about the idea of having a son.

And also its boring.

  • Love 14
BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Quote

And also its boring.

A show can be forgiven for a lot of missteps in telling a story but being boring is not one of them.  

 

32 minutes ago, Belinea said:

I think you are probably right. What I find sad is that after all these years, even their talk kind of didn't give me the same feelings it used to. I used to enjoy this, now I am just happy that they remember them before we move on to something utterly boring. It's like winter and you hope one ray of sunshine will warm you until spring. It doesn't.

I found I was resentful.  What gives him the right to lecture and moralize when he hasn't been around so much as to say thank you for getting him out of prison?  Without the everyday little moments, this big one just couldn't reach the right emotional notes because I honestly don't know what kind of a relationship they even have anymore.  Talk about depressing.  

  • Love 14
Belinea

Belinea

7 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

And also its boring.

Which is the biggest problem for me. It is one gigantic snoozefest.

And I really don't get why they don't make Prometheus plan clearer. They wouldn't have needed to reveal him but I am now confused what games he is playing. How does his plan work, what does his plan entail? For example, was helping Diggle part of it and if yes, why?

Maybe 5x18 will really be Oliver all by himself. Having lost every team member because of his own short-sightedness. And maybe that is bitter but I feel as though this time he truly deserves it. 

  • Love 5
bijoux

bijoux

5 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Just rewatched the 516 promo. Looks like there's a scene of Chase and Oliver in a hospital room. Probably Susan's. We'll probably see Oliver visiting Susan in the hospital. 

Why not? After all, she rushed to his bedside when he called her after he was attacked this episode. Um, wait.

5 hours ago, JJ928 said:

I don't know if Snoozie is gonna die next episode, but I saw an interview w/the actor playing Chase, and it sounds like Snoozie may betray Oliver after all. At least it felt like that actor was hinting it. If this has already been discussed,I'm sorry for repeating. It's ben tough keeping up since this forum is on fire tonight. lol

I bet Oliver will be shocked and aghast.

4 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

She's there to make us appreciate Laurel!

I liked Laurel! Are you all repenting for hating Ray and Laurel now that they've given you Witchface Troll in comparison?

No. I have enough resentment for multiple fictional characters to go around. I'm big that way. :)

  • Love 6
apinknightmare

apinknightmare

From the Spoilers Only thread:

Quote

Now that Adrian has kidnapped Susan, what can we expect to happen next with that?

MERICLE: We really wanted to build him up as someone who is extremely good at being ten steps ahead of Oliver and really being psychological, in the way that he manipulates him. One of the ways he does that is by going after the people that Oliver cares about. We’ve seen villains do that in the past, but Adrian does it in a way that’s a little bit more specific. Not to take any wind out of the sails of the story, but his goal is very clear. He really has no drive to kill Oliver. It’s purely based on torture. So, in taking Susan, that is where we’re headed. For how long, I can’t tell you, but he’s definitely headed toward that. And it’s all part and parcel of this drive to break Oliver down, psychologically, as opposed to physically. We’ve seen Slade and Merlyn take him on, hand to hand. This is much more of a mental game.

Please Jesus let this be a Wendy-ism. I just cannot at all even remotely buy that Oliver would be at all even a little psychologically broken because Chase took Susan. 

  • Love 8
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