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Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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calliope1975

calliope1975

5 hours ago, finnaire said:

One way or another, I think Oliver is outed as the Green Arrow. I think having Pike notice GA and Oliver making the same statement is foreshadowing that the secret gets out.  I also think Oliver Queen could die at the end of the season.

This bothers me greatly though I don't know that I can exactly explain why. I think it comes down to everyone in the SuperFlarrowverse having a secret identity. I'm sure it would open up new story lines (that will be done poorly) but I don't know that I ultimately see an upside when everyone, everywhere would know exactly when/who to target including everyone OQ knows and works with. Oliver Queen is not Tony Stark, not even close, and I just, ughh, this seems like a terribad idea. 

I do think 100% that this is where we're headed, though. 

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Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

Me for all of last summer hiatus and 5A: Me after reading the WM interview from a few weeks back about Felicity's arc giving her a more profound understanding of Oliver: Me after r

BkWurm1
BkWurm1

I tend to think that trying to make KC a place on the show had a ripple effect that did hurt the show pretty badly.  She's what turned Quentin stupid and into a creepy stalker.  So that wipes off the

calliope1975
calliope1975

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

Wasn't Marc talking about Oliver going back to Lian Yu in the flashbacks, not present time?

He never specified.  We know Oliver goes back to the island in the flashbacks because its s5.  However, almost every season he has gone back in present day too.....and in s4 we didn't see him go back but it was implied by Felicity at the end of an ep that he helped to escort a criminal back to Lien Yu.

19 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I think some want Stephen to be wrong in this instance TBH.

He only said what he and the producers have always said- they don't give a crap about following canon. Their show is their show and regardless of using comic book characters they are telling the show their way. 

I think SA toes the line more than he used too.  He has admitted to getting into trouble for saying things he wasn't supposed to say, and I also think he is tired of answering some of the same questions over and over.

BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Just now, Chaser said:

I forgot about the flashbacks.

#ArrowMotto

I just figure anything asked and answered by the producers could contain their standard double talk.  We know Oliver goes back to the island but the twist could be that he goes back both in the past and present.  I mean, who would go back with him in the past?  It's not like they were there still by the start of season two unless we're talking Argus as they revamp the prison.  I suppose it could just be Waller and her crew that let Oliver get rescued from a deserted island to make the chances of anyone stumbling on their prison even less likely.  

wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

Let's be real, A Van Dyck on another show is not nearly on the same level as something as big as a new love interest?  

4 hours ago, way2interested said:

I know this is about SA, but in trying to think of his other "never"s, I randomly remembered his comment about how later on in s1 he asked MG/AK/GB if Oliver was ever going to sleep with Felicity and they very seriously told him "never," so maybe they're not all bad?

When did this happen? lol - the EPs are so dumb

Edited by wonderwall
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

At SA's Friday panel at Dragon Con 2015 (Sep. 4, 2015), when a fan asked about EBR's character not originally planned to be an integral part of the show and if he knew Felicity was eventually going to Oliver's love interest, SA responded:

"The answer is no and no. The bare bones of making a TV show is that you are going to shoot a pilot, and we shot the pilot in March of 2012.  March, April, of 2012.  That pilot gets put together, gets picked up by the network, you go to the Upfronts, and you announce that you're going to do a series, and you know - the best pilots set the table for a series, but at the same time they really need to be explosive and almost their own story, so that the show actually gets picked up in the first place. Then when you get into the bare bones of television production, we were completed - we had completed episode 9 before the pilot had actually premiered. So how do you know what's going to work? How do you know what's going to pop or resonate with an audience? You don't really know until people watch it. And, in the early going, after Emily's first appearance in the third episode, it was just people who saw the studio and the network cuts going, 'we enjoyed her performance', so we saw her again. And I knew that she was going to be an integral part of the show when all of a sudden they built her a set. (audience laughs) Right? When you build someone a set, they're going to be around for a little bit. (audience laughs and claps) And then she signed on as a regular. But, you know, as late as - I don't know - probably the midway point of season 2, it was like, 'do you think that Oliver and Felicity will ever get together?' And I swear to God, the show runner said this, 'Absolutely not. Never.' (audience laughs) Which is why you never say never… Never say never."

An Unexpected Treat at Stephen Amell Live!
Debbie Yutko September 5, 2015 
http://dailydragon.dragoncon.org/2015/an-unexpected-treat-at-stephen-amell-live/

Quote

Asked about whether he knew that Felicity would be so important, and eventually become his love interest, he said he’d had no idea at the start. They filmed about nine episodes before the pilot appeared on television, and they didn’t know at the time what would resonate with the audience. “All the sudden they built her a set,” he said. “When they build you a set, you know you’ll be around for a while.” Early on, when he asked if the Arrow and Felicity would ever get together, he was told, “Absolutely not. Ever. And look what happened.” The fan response to Felicity was much stronger than expected, which influenced the direction of the show.

Edited by tv echo
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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

I don't really buy that tbh because wasn't there an interview with MG right after season 1 where he said something like they needed to wrap up the  Tommy, Laurel, Oliver triangle before they can go with olicity? And didn't Stephen say that they told him either at the start of season 2 or halfway how it would end with the ily?  

Edited by tangerine95
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

^^^ Not sure if these are the correct interviews...

‘Arrow’: ‘Olicity,’ Felicity’s First Solo Mission And More Intel From Emily Bett Rickards And Marc Guggenheim
By Laura Prudom   April 24, 2013
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/24/arrow-olicity-felicity-oliver-emily-bett-rickards_n_3144718.html?utm_hp_ref=entertainment&ir=Entertainment

Quote

As for whether fans would be satisfied with those lines in context, Guggenheim was coy. “I think there’s a lot of really great moments between Oliver and Felicity in the final four episodes of the season. That’s really what people will respond to. There’s a scene that they share in Episode 22 where just the chemistry is just so palpable. I was actually just on set telling Stephen that you really feel there’s a lot of chemistry and heat between the two of them. So, the shippers are only going to get louder post-Episode 22.”

Still, the EP added, “the final four episodes really are about this love triangle of Oliver, Laurel and Tommy. That’s the love triangle that we began the series with so we felt it appropriate to finish the season with a focus on it. That love triangle really starts to come to a boil with Wednesday’s episode, Episode 20. That kicks us off for the remaining three episodes of the season after that. The truth of the matter is that we sort of have to play that out first before we can play out Oliver and Felicity. But I love the fact that people are shipping them. It really is exciting. There’s nothing but love for Felicity among all the people involved in the show. So, stay tuned. But in the meantime, I gained a lot of satisfaction by teasing people.”

'Arrow' Boss on Oliver's Love Life: Not Many Superheroes "Are Married"
Philiana Ng  September 9, 2014
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-producer-oliver-felicity-ras-731022

Quote

Picking up months after the finale, the premiere addresses Oliver's "I love you" to Felicity Smoak by putting them in a less professional, more romantic setting: a date. Let's just say it goes "horribly" awry. Arrow and The Flash executive producer Greg Berlanti promises that while Oliver and Felicity's progression as a pair may be exciting for a portion of the fans, it won't dominate the season.

"None of us like to throw stuff out there and then not deal with it in some way. It doesn't mean it occupies the story and that's all we deal with, but you want to be fair to the audience," Berlanti tells The Hollywood Reporter.

Charting that particular relationship has been "something that we've been working toward and building toward since she first showed up on the show," he says. "We deal with it head-on in the premiere, but there aren't a lot of superheroes who are married. It's more that we're dealing with the finale than we are with them."

Edited by tv echo
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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

36 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I don't really buy that tbh because wasn't there an interview with MG right after season 1 where he said something like they needed to wrap up the  Tommy, Laurel, Oliver triangle before they can go with olicity? And didn't Stephen say that they told him either at the start of season 2 or halfway how it would end with the ily?  

I think there is a lot of spec about when they really started realizing BC/GA pairing wasn't gonna work. 

But essentially I think that as early as ep 105-106 they knew that lauliver wasn't gonna work. SA and KC had no chemistry. Tptb admired later they were even wrong for not screen testing them first.

theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

I don't really buy that tbh because wasn't there an interview with MG right after season 1 where he said something like they needed to wrap up the  Tommy, Laurel, Oliver triangle before they can go with olicity? And didn't Stephen say that they told him either at the start of season 2 or halfway how it would end with the ily?  

It really depends on who Stephen was talking about. I could see AK saying to him in early season 2 that they would never have Olicity become a thing while GB could actually be thinking from early on to put them together or even test the waters at some point. So i think its possible some producers were considering a different direction for the show. I dont think the producers were coordinated much anyway. Especially if some were already preparing the flash. Lets not forget AK detached himself from Arrow later.

I also think its possible that at some point the producers as a whole, realised that people really wanted olicity to get together. I always say it,olicity was from season 2 a fan favorite ship. Male and female audience were actively rooting for them to become a thing, not just some corners of the internet. If there was bts drama with KC, or just the fact that her character was massively hated but also unpopular back then, i could see the EPs really considering the olicity option towards the end of S2/start of S3.

I dont believe these writers ever had a legit  plan regarding the show which is why i can  easily buy the idea that they are dropping olicity now to re-do comic canon endgame. They dont seem to care much  about continuity. They were just lucky that somehow the writing worked with olicity early on and they easily managed to sell them as a romantic option later because of this. Now the show is all over the place so obviously a GA/BC romance wont work when it comes to continuity,then again the comic purists wont care about continuity anyway.

Edited by theOAfc
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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)
46 minutes ago, tv echo said:

and building toward since she first showed up on the show," he says. "We deal with it head-on in the premiere, but there aren't a lot of superheroes who are married. It's more that we're dealing with the finale than we are with them."

? What you talkin' bout, Greg?

Heh. that is kind of rich considering the Green Arrow, the  titular character in his show, Arrow, was actually married. So why couldn't Oliver marry Felicity other than "because comics"?

Edited by catrox14
Belinea

Belinea

(edited)

How much is AK involved these days if it isn't a crossover? 

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

So why couldn't Oliver marry Felicity other than "because comics"?

Because they wanted to keep their options open. Also they wanted them to break up to fulfil their story pointers.

I sometimes hope the show will go back to being interesting and keep you emotionally invested but the more episodes they produce this season, the more underwhelmed I feel. I always put my hope in the next episode only to walk away from it being still somewhat bored and/or baffled. 

At what point will they decide to make cohesive storylines that connect to the rest of their actual show. In S2 people were even emotionally connected to the bad guy, that is why people loved it when it was revealed that Slade was alive. I really don't care all that much about the current bad guy because we still don't know who he truly is and because he is away on holiday so often, I am not really on the edge of my seat at the moment waiting for his next move. 

Edited by Belinea
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)
9 hours ago, wonderwall said:

Let's be real, A Van Dyck on another show is not nearly on the same level as something as big as a new love interest?  

I still wish during the crossover as Sara was leaving she said "Oh, by the way Oliver, don't grow out your beard. Trust me it's not a good a look on you" then Diggle and Oliver could've exchanged WTF? looks. 

Edited by Sakura12
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

26 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

I dont believe these writers ever had a legit  plan regarding the show which is why i can  easily buy the idea that they are dropping olicity now to re-do comic canon endgame. They dont seem to care much  about continuity. 

This to me is one of the weirdest things about the whole show. I cannot IMAGINE having a show with basically a five-year story, and just winging it. They didn't know what was going to happen with Sara, they didn't know they were going to incorporate magic, which was a HUGE element for an entire season. They didn't know Oliver was going to spend a year on the island in flashbacks. They seemed to have a couple rando plotlines that they've now stuffed Oliver/Felicity into, but no real overarching plan, and not even a season-long plan! I just absolutely do not understand that. It feels like storyteller malpractice to me.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Ugh, I'm going to defend here.

I think they did have a plan here, or at least a general guideline. Two big things disrupted it: KC and The Flash. KC was huge. They basically had to completely rework the show and character(s) more than once over that fail. The Flash did two things to Arrow: took creative resources and forced Arrow into another universe. A meta fueled, out of place world.

Edited by Chaser
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LeighAn

LeighAn

I think some people are reaching with this whole Stephens always wrong thing and making more out of it and all this analysing of past quotes then it is because theyd like him to be wrong in this instance cause then it can confirm all their worst fears/hopes for the show *shrug*

But at the end of the day Stephen shut down romance talk between GA/BC when he didn't have to, after Marc shut down romance talk when he didn't have to and after the show hasn't teased any romance or shown any intent to. 

I honestly don't know why some can't just take this for the optimistic news that it is and breathe a little easier unless they actually want the show to go there and continue feeling bitter.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

How many times have the EPs and Stephen shut down the whole because comics idea before this season? Countless times. 

The fact that they're only saying because comics now is because the network forced them to. So why put stock in them saying because comics now when the past shows they really don't give a fudge about it? 

It's clear that the EPs won't put dinahollie together because they didn't want her in the first place. But it's also clear the network likely won't push this romance onto the show after this season's ratings which a large part of the dip can be attributed to Oliver/Felicity breaking up and staying broken up, something of which the addition of Dinah didn't help at all either. 

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theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
51 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

The fact that they're only saying because comics now is because the network forced them to. So why put stock in them saying because comics now when the past shows they really don't give a fudge about it? 

The way i see it,they simply sell each season what the show is writing towards to. In season 3 they would repeatedly say they are not following comics 100% and  they do their own thing because they were basically writing with the olicity=endgame mindset. They were selling what they were writing.  In season 4 they often said the same,especially at the start because they were writing olicity as a healthy couple soon to be married. Now they are also selling what they are writing. They are introducing a new BC and already are selling the "theres no GA without BC". I dont think we can eventually tell what their real opinions are because they are just selling their material each season. Who knows that next season they wont say "we decided to honor GA/BC the way many comic fans would love to"? Im not saying it will happen,im saying if they decide to write towards that ,they will sell it . Cause their job is to sell and we cant know what their honest opinions are. Not until the show is over and they can freely express their honest thoughts  without contracts affecting their PR behavior.

Edited by theOAfc
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Velocity23

Velocity23

(edited)

They already honored GA/BC with Sara and Oliver. 

But did they say GA is gonna hook up with BC? And SA was pretty clear in that and has had the same line even when LL became BC. 

 

Sometimes i really feel people are just waiting to pounce on SA to say something vague and spin their own story. NA the biggest spinner out there didn't sound like he gave any clues towards GA/BC forever SL. 

Edited by Velocity23
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wonderwall

wonderwall

5 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

The way i see it,they simply sell each season what the show is writing towards to. In season 3 they would repeatedly say they are not following comics 100% and  they do their own thing because they were basically writing with the olicity=endgame mindset. They were selling what they were writing. In season 4 they often said the same,especially at the start because they were writing olicity as a healthy couple soon to be married. Now they are also selling what they are writing. I dont think we can eventually tell what their real opinions are because they are just selling their material each season. Who knows that next season they wont say "we decided to honor GA/BC the way many comic fans would love to"? Im not saying it will happen,im saying if they decide to write towards that ,they will sell it . Cause their job is to sell and we cant know what their honest opinions are. Not until the show is over and they can freely express their honest thoughts  without contracts affecting their PR behavior.

You kind of missed my point. Of course they're going to sell whatever they have to. I'm just saying you shouldn't put any weight in the because comics comments the EPs make to sell this particular story. Why? Because they've shown before they just don't care about following it. 

Other than Dinah, are they actually writing towards comic canon in any other way? There is nothing to show that they will go towards Dinah Ollie because they have never shown interest in writing towards the comics ever. Even in season 1 it's clear they pivoted away from that really quickly. 

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strikera0

strikera0

(edited)
1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

Natalie switched rather quickly to the topic of the suit. That was the most hilarious part of the podcast. Also how she wasnt really pleased with people tweeting her about Dinah/Quentin. 

Well, if Dinah/Oliver are considered gross because of the whole replacement thing, then Dinah/Quentin would have to be off-the-charts gross considering that she's literally replacing his DAUGHTER. Assuming that Dinah's still around next season, I would prefer for her to stay single, but with this being the CW, they will probably try to pair her with someone. Maybe they can bring on an entirely new character as her love interest in a recurring guest capacity (6-8 episodes) - preferably an actor with natural charisma. I could picture Dinah/Juliana very well with an actor like David Lyons. Not that I think David Lyons would ever appear on this show, though. Frankly, he would act circles around Stephen Amell, but maybe they can get a bargain-bin version of him. LOL

Edited by strikera0
Chaser

Chaser

I honestly don't think they are following comics anymore now then previous seasons. They've always had nods to the comics, they've always introduced new comic characters. New blood introduced in later seasons, also common TV storytelling. 

None of this is out of the ordinary for Arrow or TV. 

What has been said about BC is annoying, but nothing that was yelled about when it became clear they were adding her has happened. 

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theOAfc

theOAfc

(edited)
8 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm just saying you shouldn't put any weight in the because comics comments the EPs make to sell this particular story.

Im putting as much weight to it as i put to anything they say for the last two years which isnt much anyway. My point was that people believing half the things the EPs or SA say and ignoring the other half just cause its something that they dont think will happen is not a smart move cause eventually they sell their own material whatever that ends up being. 

For example when Stephen said that a male character and a female character dont  have to be romantically involved after being asked about L/O romance in s3,people saw that as him shutting down any possibility of L/O romance  again. When he said the same thing after being asked about Olicity this season,people said he simply cant reveal much because at the moment olicity is not romanctially involved. 

Edited by theOAfc
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Velocity23

Velocity23

Just now, theOAfc said:

For example when Stephen said that a male character and a female character dont  have to be romantically involved after being asked about L/O romance in s3,people saw that as him shutting down any possibility of L/O romance  again. When he said the same thing after being asked about Olicity this season,people said he simply cant reveal much because at the moment olicity is not romanctially involved. 

From what i remember SA said the ship has sailed for L/O and S/O romances before s3 started. 

987fbb199bbb1437bb7ed5f0593efd34.jpg

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wonderwall

wonderwall

3 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Im putting as much weight to it as i put to anything they say for the last two years which isnt much anyway. My point was that people believing half the things the EPs or SA say and ignoring the other half just cause its something that they dont think will happen is not a smart move cause eventually they sell their own material whatever that ends up being. 

Well I wasn't really talking about you specifically though so... I think it's painfully obvious when an EP or SA is being coy and when they're not. Maybe you don't but I guess ymmv. 

8 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

For example when Stephen said that a male character and a female character dont  have to be romantically involved after being asked about L/O romance in s3,people saw that as him shutting down any possibility of L/O romance  again. When he said the same thing after being asked about Olicity this season,people said he simply cant reveal much because at the moment olicity is not romanctially involved. 

When did he say this? Because I simply recall him shutting down the idea of loliver completely at sdcc 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

16 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I honestly don't think they are following comics anymore now then previous seasons. They've always had nods to the comics, they've always introduced new comic characters. New blood introduced in later seasons, also common TV storytelling. 

None of this is out of the ordinary for Arrow or TV. 

What has been said about BC is annoying, but nothing that was yelled about when it became clear they were adding her has happened. 


Yup yup yup. Maybe one could argue that the characters getting stuck in this weird lack-of-development limbo is the most comic book thing they've done, since comic book characters take like, forty years to get any sort of development. But other than that? The comic book stuff is the same superfluous stuff.

I don't even get why people think Tinah is getting a because comics treatment. She has two things from the comics: 1. the name, 2. the meta cry. That's it. Everything else is Arrow doing Arrow.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I agree that GB may be more likely to think about Oliver Queen being married than AK, especially since AK was all about Laurel Lance the Black Canary and by that time Lauriver was  dead in the waters.  He'd be more reluctant to see Oliver married to someone else.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Charting that particular relationship has been "something that we've been working toward and building toward since she first showed up on the show," he says. "We deal with it head-on in the premiere, but there aren't a lot of superheroes who are married. It's more that we're dealing with the finale than we are with them.

This is true actually.  3x01 was dealing with the 'I love you' on the season finale and putting a stop to continuing their relationship

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

This to me is one of the weirdest things about the whole show. I cannot IMAGINE having a show with basically a five-year story, and just winging it. They didn't know what was going to happen with Sara, they didn't know they were going to incorporate magic, which was a HUGE element for an entire season. They didn't know Oliver was going to spend a year on the island in flashbacks. They seemed to have a couple rando plotlines that they've now stuffed Oliver/Felicity into, but no real overarching plan, and not even a season-long plan! I just absolutely do not understand that. It feels like storyteller malpractice to me.

While many, many things on this show seem crazy, I don't think they're entirely winging it.  Sara came because Laurel failed not only as a LI but even more problematically as the potential Black Canary. They brought her on to give KC time to grow into the role and then killed her to make Laurel the Black Canary. But CL was so good, she couldn't be followed and then they had problems selling Brandon Routh with his own show so they brought Sara back to make LoT possible.

It's almost like if you step back,, you can see where things changed because WB/DC stepped in and wanted things  -- Sara dying, Sara reviving, the terribleness of the Olicity break-up when the show was going to go on longer than 5 seasons, Tinah, Wild Dog and maybe Mr. Terrific coming on the show.  These guys aren't the greatest at planning in the first place, it's hard for them to pivot to get in what their bosses want.

Tinah got the Insta-Canary treatment because they want Dinah Drake for the game coming out in May.   I don't want her paired with either Oliver or a newly widowed Diggle.  I actually wouldn't mind her with Quentin if they're not bring Donna back; they both have an abrasiveness that could be interesting.

With Susan still sucking the energy out of Oliver's story, not to mention his brain cells, I don't think Dinah is in contention at the moment to be either his love interest or the show's leading lady.  I'd still rather have Thea in the bunker though.

  • Love 3
AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)
2 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

While many, many things on this show seem crazy, I don't think they're entirely winging it.  Sara came because Laurel failed not only as a LI but even more problematically as the potential Black Canary. They brought her on to give KC time to grow into the role and then killed her to make Laurel the Black Canary. But CL was so good, she couldn't be followed and then they had problems selling Brandon Routh with his own show so they brought Sara back to make LoT possible.

She didn't, though. The EPs explicitly stated they always planned to bring Sara in, but they didn't know whether she'd be good or bad (and if bad, probably Ravager, which is what Isabel ended up as...i.e., no plan). And I don't mean they didn't know at the beginning of S1...I mean they said they didn't know at the beginning of S2!

Edited by AyChihuahua
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)
4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I agree that GB may be more likely to think about Oliver Queen being married than AK, especially since AK was all about Laurel Lance the Black Canary and by that time Lauriver was  dead in the waters.  He'd be more reluctant to see Oliver married to someone else.

Kreisberg was the one who wrote the married GA/BC comics, so yes. He's the one with the soft spot for that relationship [Cupid was his creation specifically to disrupt GA/BC, even], while Berlanti is the dude who paired up Joey and Pacey on DC despite EVERYONE in production being terrified of going there.

Edited by dtissagirl
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm actually starting to wonder if the mea culpa after this season is gonna veer into "the network wanted us to try different things, but unfortunately it didn't resonate too well with the audience", i.e. the network told them to stall 'ship, the studio forced seventeen masks on them, and some mystery entity forced Oliver to stop pooping altogether.

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HighHopes

HighHopes

(edited)
11 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

She didn't, though. The EPs explicitly stated they always planned to bring Sara in, but they didn't know whether she'd be good or bad (and if bad, probably Ravager, which is what Isabel ended up as...i.e., no plan). And I don't mean they didn't know at the beginning of S1...I mean they said they didn't know at the beginning of S2!

SA also recently said (in that EW interview I think?) that they didn't know that Oliver would end up in Hong Kong at the end of season two when they started the season. I think that while these EPs have a general idea of the season, they also get distracted by shiny things and end up leaving that plan behind for "OOOH IDEA!" and then everything that happened before is meaningless because they changed the ending. So the build up is there for Y, they see a shiny object, and we end the season with Z. 

The Sara/Isabel thing always bothers me. Also Wild Cat in season three-- they again couldn't get the actor for the rest of the season because these idiots don't plan, and that storyline went nowhere too. 

Edited by HighHopes
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