Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I think it was Willa Holland they said that about, that she'd had little to do for two seasons so now she's getting a juicy arc as a reward.

 

it's great for that she's getting her mask.  I remember her at Calgary (?) talking about how she tried on Sara's mask and got all excited.  But it is tacky to post it 2 days after Sara's death was aired.  I don't think KC has much empathy (i.e. understanding how other people feel) which affects how she plays Laurel and this supports it. 

 

Yeah, they said that about Willa, but I thought they mentioned that Katie was as well.

 

And it is tacky, I don't deny that. That's why I mentioned that I think she's tone-deaf where fandom is concerned. I think she might be under the impression that the people who don't like Laurel just don't like her, so she might just have a screw 'em kind of attitude (this is purely speculation on my part).

[statsgirl]

Does it even apply to Laurel?  She's had a lot of arcs and screentime, in s1 in her relationships with Oliver and Tommy and her work, and the addiction and Lance Family Drama in s2. She hasn't put on a mask yet but there has been arc after arc just about her.  Or is it written in her contract that she has to become the Black Canary and that's what they are referring to about her being patient?

 

I think she might be under the impression that the people who don't like Laurel just don't like her, so she might just have a screw 'em kind of attitude (this is purely speculation on my part).

Even if she does, let the people who loved Sara mourn her for a while.  Or does she think no one does and everyone is excited to see her put on the fishnets? 

[Morrigan2575]

In regards to KC's mask. They are fitting her for a life cast in that photo. From there they will create a bust of her head and then the makeup department will sculpt the mask directly onto the bust. From there a mold is created and then mask is made from that mold. So even though they are filming 3X09 right now, (if that photo was recent and not just posted recently) it's still a few weeks away from being completed and that doesn't include getting network and DC's approval of the finished result. So I'm guessing end of the season for the mask.

Not that it matters but at least I get this season with no Laurel BC.

I doubt it will wait until the season finale, more likely February sweeps, 15 or 16, they wouldn't start filming those until mid-January or early February. 3 months should be more than enough to get everything taken care of, especially with the relationship they have built with DC/CW. Edited October 11, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Does it even apply to Laurel?  She's had a lot of arcs and screentime, in s1 in her relationships with Oliver and Tommy and her work, and the addiction and Lance Family Drama in s2. She hasn't put on a mask yet but there has been arc after arc just about her.  Or is it written in her contract that she has to become the Black Canary and that's what they are referring to about her being patient?

 

Even if she does, let the people who loved Sara mourn her for a while.  Or does she think no one does and everyone is excited to see her put on the fishnets? 

 

I think whichever EP said it was referring to KC being a team player with regards to the Sara character and KC kind of sitting back while someone else came in as BC, if I had to guess, not about lack of screentime or storylines. 

 

And honestly? She probably doesn't care - like I wrote, I think she's tone-deaf fandom-wise. And she probably got tons of tweets from her fans who were excited she was becoming BC, so she's catering to them.

Edited October 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[JJ928]

Give her the mask and the outfit, I say. Let her be whatever they make her for half a season, then send her off to another city that needs a hero. 

[catrox14]

I am so tired of Laurel already. I don't understand why she has to get a full face mold for the mask. Did they do that with Amell and lotz and Colton?

[apinknightmare]

I am so tired of Laurel already. I don't understand why she has to get a full face mold for the mask. Did they do that with Amell and lotz and Colton?

 

Yep

[foreverevolving]

So apparently KC is getting fitted for a mask...wow

http://instagram.com/p/t_LUQdFS8b/?modal=true

 

I think these sums up my feelings:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yo`ll know? i'm actually starting to dig this use of gif. i may stick with it for longer then the mourning period.

[KenyaJ]

I think whichever EP said it was referring to KC being a team player with regards to the Sara character and KC kind of sitting back while someone else came in as BC, if I had to guess, not about lack of screentime or storylines. 

 

Actually, I don't recall those statements having anything to do with Sara. The comments I heard were just in reference to her and Willa not having a lot to do and waiting for the opportunity to have their own storylines. And that's just bullshit where Laurel is concerned. She's had plenty to do; the writers and KC just can't make any of it work. And the solution to that is *not* killing off a popular character so Laurel can have something to do.

[ban1o]

 Did they do that with Amell and lotz and Colton?

I'm sure they did.How else do you get a mask that fits perfectly on the face? Maybe they didn't post about it on instagram I guess. 

[discoduck227]

It seems to me that Laurel has had more storyline than Oliver at times. She was everywhere in Season 1 then we got a blessed break in the first half of Season 2 and then she was back and everywhere in the second half. Now I also thought there was too much Lance family stuff in the second half of Season 2 since the show is called Arrow and not Lance but YMMV. 

 

My feelings on Laurel as Black Canary and Laurel in general.

Edited October 11, 2014 by discoduck227

[statsgirl]

Actually, she had her own storyline in 2A too. That's when the drinking/drugs/stopped by cop started from mourning Tommy, joining the DA's office and then working on Moira's case and getting kidnapped by the Dollmaker.  She wasn't BC but she had a lot of stuff. Maybe they were trying to make it up to her for bringing in Sara.  I don't think there was a break from her till the Russia episode.

 

Do we know how long Laurel is going to be rampaging at Sara's death and having the focus on her again?  I expect a lot of her in the next two episodes, and it's the start of her romance with Ted Grant.

[discoduck227]

Oh that's right, statsgirl. I had totally blocked all that out of my mind....lol. 

[catrox14]

I'm sure they did.How else do you get a mask that fits perfectly on the face? Maybe they didn't post about it on instagram I guess.

I literally have no idea, hence my question. I would think measurements for the eye and cheekbones would be enough but I don't know

[wonderwall]

I literally have no idea, hence my question. I would think measurements for the eye and cheekbones would be enough but I don't know

Maybe they were just tired of seeing KC grinning like an idiot so they covered her face up. 

 

I'm still bitter as you can see. 

 

Regardless, good for KC for getting what she wants. 

[tv echo]

Getting arm muscles, and putting on a mask and costume, aren't enough to turn someone into a convincing Black Canary.  You still have to explain how Laurel is going to be trained well enough (by a boxer?) in less than a year to match Sara's five years of LOA training.  Maybe they're going to have Nyssa drop in from time to time to give Laurel fighting tips.  Hey, maybe Laurel can replace Sara as Nyssa's love interest as well.

 

Not to mention the hypocrisy of a DA prosecuting criminals for breaking the law, while she herself is breaking the law as a vigilante.

Edited October 11, 2014 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Spoiler Room: Scoop on 'Grey's,' 'Horror Story,' 'Agent Carter,' and more
By Natalie Abrams on Oct 10, 2014 at 4:49PM

I can’t believe Oliver and Felicity aren’t going to be together. Can you give this Arrow fan any hope? — Tina
Executive producer Marc Guggenheim stresses that you should look at that first kiss-turned break up scene at the hospital as the first of a two-parter, which will continue in episode 2. “This is not the last time we’ll hear the words ‘I love you’ in connection with Oliver and Felicity,” he says. “The repercussions of that scene and that storyline in episode one, that’s going to follow them over the course of season 3. It’s not over. We didn’t just hit pause or reset on their relationship. This is just a development in an ongoing relationship for them.”

Worst news I’ve heard all week: I know it’ll likely lead to Laurel becoming the Black Canary, but I’m really bummed that Arrow killed off Sara.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/10/spoiler-room-greys-horror-story-carter-spoilers/

Edited October 11, 2014 by tv echo

[Happy Harpy]

 

Executive producer Marc Guggenheim stresses that you should look at that first kiss-turned break up scene at the hospital as the first of a two-parter, which will continue in episode 2.

Or, "How to use Oliver/Felicity as bait to get people watching" what sounds like a Laurel-centric-episode. Since they basically killed Sara for her, I don't see how it couldn't be...and anyway, I'm not sure that I'm ready to see Quentin lose his daughter all over again. Scratch that, I'm so not ready for this.

Thanks but no thanks.

 

I know it’ll likely lead to Laurel becoming the Black Canary, but I’m really bummed that Arrow killed off Sara.

It sounds as if "leading to Laurel becoming the Black Canary" is a good thing.

Yes but no, thanks.

 

Personally, with Diggle seemingly off the team, Felicity off to Central City, Laurel's body-count heavy "journey" hogging airtime and Stalkers'R'Us, er, Ray Palmer there to stay...the more spoilers I get, the less I find to look forward to. It's sad, but I'm back to my end of S2 distrustful stand: check the reviews before I watch. Or not.

[JJ928]

I actually saw an interesting theory on tumblr, posted by one of her fans who feels they're being played. Lol

They're worried that her getting a mask so soon, and going on a journey to seek vengeance will end with her deciding to be Laurel instead of BC. Since MG said her journey is: am I Laurel or my sister, the concern is that Laurel who always fights for justice (lol), will pull away from being a vigilante at the end of the season. Especially since MG said that some people won't be meeting their comic destiny, I figured Thea, but these people think it's LL.

Interesting theory, not idea how it'll really play out this year. Honestly, all I want is a Lazarus pit.

[tv echo]

I agree that it's more likely Thea (and not Laurel) who won't meet her comic destiny.  If Laurel decides not to become BC, then, with Sara's death, there will be no BC - and I doubt the EPs would go that path, esp. if they still harbor hopes of a BOP spin-off in the future.

 

A third, kinda compromise path to Laurel's journey of "am I me or my sister" is this - Laurel decides that she's not her sister, the Canary, but will become her own kind of superhero, the Black Canary.  So she's still Laurel, but she's still BC.  A cop-out, I know.  Yes, she would continue her hypocrisy of being a DA who prosecutes law-breakers by day while being a law-breaking vigilante by night.  But consistency has never been one of her character traits.

 

JJ928, I also hope for a Lazarus Pit.  But I'm not optimistic.  Sara looked pretty dead at the end of episode 1 and in next week's previews.  Someone would have to steal her body from Team Arrow's custody and the burial site.  Her resurrection (again) would undermine Laurel's journey this season and make all of the EPs' comments about the reason for Sara's death meaningless.

Edited October 11, 2014 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I agree that it's more likely Thea (and not Laurel) who won't meet her comic destiny.  If Laurel decides not to become BC, then, with Sara's death, there will be no BC - and I doubt the EPs would go that path, esp. if they still harbor hopes of a BOP spin-off in the future.

 

If the EPs really do want to do a BOP spin-off, wouldn't that be a difficult sell with a character as polarizing as Laurel?

[tv echo]

Considering what they've done so far, I am forced to conclude that the EPs really do think the problem with Laurel has been that she wasn't the BC and wasn't in the know about Oliver's vigilante identity.  They probably think they've now fixed the Laurel problem and that fans will all love her this season.

[Nagevs]

wouldn't that be a difficult sell with a character as polarizing as Laurel?

 

 

Yes. It's a non starter.

Edited October 11, 2014 by nagevs85

[JJ928]

I don't think they will ever spinoff Laurel. They may love the idea of BOP, but she's too divisive of a character and she's constantly panned by reviewers. Any BOP will be done on Arrow like last year. I don't think this story arc is gonna go well for them. I'll just be here with my popcorn watching the fall out.

[apinknightmare]

I continue to be really bothered by the scene in the next promo with Oliver, Roy, Felicity, Laurel and Digg burying Sara in a wooden box in secret under the cloak of night.

 

Are they seriously not going to tell Lance that she died? I know he has that heart issue (which, yeah, I'm guessing they set that up so that would be the reason no one tells him), but...ugh, that leaves the most rotten taste in my mouth. What exactly is he going to think when she never shows up again? Is someone going to hack her email and send him messages? Will he not find that suspicious (I know, I know, he doesn't find a lot of things suspicious that he probably should)?

 

I mean, I know these writers gave us the dumpster symbolism, so they obviously don't think much of the character, but jesus, she's had such a shitty life, she deserves to be properly and finally mourned.

 

I've been trying to think of reasons for that kind of burial, because Komodo comes to town skewering people, it's not as if they couldn't set it up to look like he'd killed her too to get everything above the board so she could have a real funeral. So, it's either to keep it from Lance, to keep her "unofficially officially dead" so that she can come back via Lazarus Pit, or because it looks gritty.

 

I'm guessing it's a combo of the first and last reason, but ugh, this storyline sucks.

Edited October 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

The only logical reason I can think of for the stealth burial is that for all intents and purposes, Sara died on the Gambit, and there's already a death certificate and a cemetery lot somewhere, and they can't involve any city officials because of that.

[apinknightmare]

The only logical reason I can think of for the stealth burial is that for all intents and purposes, Sara died on the Gambit, and there's already a death certificate and a cemetery lot somewhere, and they can't involve any city officials because of that.

 

But Oliver threw her a party at Queen mansion during ToD to celebrate her coming back from the dead, and there were tons of people there. Did no one ever undo the legalities of her death? Wait, I'm talking about Starling City, so probably not. But...her being alive wasn't a secret, so I still don't understand.

Edited October 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

Apparently I'm super forgetful today. Totally blanked out on that party. Yeah, I guess I got nothing then.

 

Or. I'm assuming the secret Laurel is struggling with -- from the episode's official description -- is that Sara is dead, and she's afraid of telling Quentin because of his heart problems. But then her solution is a secret burial? There are so many levels of WRONG there that I really wish there is a different secret we just don't know about.

[apinknightmare]

Apparently I'm super forgetful today. Totally blanked out on that party. Yeah, I guess I got nothing then.

 

Or. I'm assuming the secret Laurel is struggling with -- from the episode's official description -- is that Sara is dead, and she's afraid of telling Quentin because of his heart problems. But then her solution is a secret burial? There are so many levels of WRONG there that I really wish there is a different secret we just don't know about.

 

Yeah, is he at some point going to stop having a heart condition? Is it going to be any better for his health when he eventually finds out that his daughter buried his other daughter in a shipping container she and her cohorts found on the loading dock of a local Wal-Mart and no one fucking told him?

 

I hope she has another secret, too.

[Sunshine]

I think from the promo on the CW's page they must tell Lance. I couldn't tell in the dark but I thought the 5 in the cemetery were Oliver, Laurel & Lance with Felicity & Roy off to the side. This also makes me think Colton was referring to Felicity & Roy bonding over something bad and he said Sarah to not spoil similar to Manu using Caity's name when talking about being punched in the face by Emily.

Regarding Laurel's mask: Unless there is a date stamp on the picture it could have been taken months ago. The storylines had to be approved last May/June. SA mentioned he was training for the biggest fight scene in the history of the show (3.09) so I assume Ra's. KC was in Dallas for about 2 weeks. Story wise she could be off training and shows up in the fight scene in costume as a "surprise your going to want to tune back in after the holidays". They think we will love her once she dons her costume. They like to do things sooner rather than later hence Roy being a fully integrated member of Team Arrow along with his costume in 3.01. Also, there was talk during S2 by MG about wanting to do another BOP episode in S3. They can only pull that off if Laurel is already established as Canary. Okay, I am depressed now.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Sunshine

[dtissagirl]

I just rewatched the promo. The tombstone says SARA LANCE 1987 - 2007. So they're burying her in the previously existing lot. And I think it's Diggle's back we're seeing in the group frame, but I can't be 100% sure.

 

At least Felicity is questioning what they're doing, bless her heart forever.

[apinknightmare]

I think from the promo on the CW's page they must tell Lance. I couldn't tell in the dark but I thought the 5 in the cemetery were Oliver, Laurel & Lance with Felicity & Roy off to the side. This also makes me think Colton was referring to Felicity & Roy bonding over something bad and he said Sarah to not spoil similar to Manu using Caity's name when talking about being punched in the face by Emily.

 

It's Felicity, Roy, Laurel, Oliver and that looks like Diggle's arm, next to the shovel:

 

 

If Lance was there, I'd have to wonder why he was allowing his child to be buried in a box like that (I'm just super hung up on that box, haha).

Edited October 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

Emm are some media reportings its it for Olicity? Seems Lauren Brown is surprised about it.

https://twitter.com/SmoaknArrow/status/520959617200050176

[apinknightmare]

I just rewatched the promo. The tombstone says SARA LANCE 1987 - 2007. So they're burying her in the previously existing lot. And I think it's Diggle's back we're seeing in the group frame, but I can't be 100% sure.

 

At least Felicity is questioning what they're doing, bless her heart forever.

 

I hate this, I hate it so much. I could maybe get it if no one knew she was still alive, BUT THEY THREW HER A WELCOME HOME PARTY.

 

I hope beyond all hope that this gets properly explained in the episode, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it. I really do think it's because they're not going to tell Lance and I'm going to have a really big problem if that's the case.

Emm are some media reportings its it for Olicity? Seems Lauren Brown is surprised about it.

https://twitter.com/SmoaknArrow/status/520959617200050176

 

I haven't seen that - I know there was something "controversial" posted to TV Line, I think. A poll about them moving too fast maybe? But how could anyone think this is it for them? This show is so heavy-handed with its symbolism. Oliver tells Felicity that she's the person who reconnected him to his humanity after he returned from the island (in the same episode where he's basically deciding he can't be that guy anymore), her giving him a plant that thrives in low-light conditions, her cradling a sunflower as he picked her unconscious body up off of the floor in that bistro. LMAO, come on, guys.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I hate it too. Sara dies in a dark alley and they bury her in the dark in a lot that says SHE WAS ALREADY DEAD ANYWAY. I cannot escape the awfulness of the symbolism.

 

Laurel is hugging Lance in the promo too, but that doesn't really mean she told him. I hope she tells him by the end of this episode, because otherwise, what? Nyssa comes to town in 3x04 and tells Quentin instead? That will be much better for his heart, I bet.

Edited October 11, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Sunshine]

Thanks @apinknightmare. I think maybe I need to get my eyes & ears checked.

I think it was Laurel crying in Lance's arms that made me think she told him about Sarah.

[apinknightmare]

Thanks @apinknightmare. I think maybe I need to get my eyes & ears checked.

I think it was Laurel crying in Lance's arms that made me think she told him about Sarah.

Maybe she does. Hopefully she remembers to tell her mom too.

[Lokiberry]

So, let me get his straight (ha): the LGBT character they just killed and tossed on a trash can, in order to give her name and accomplishments to her heterosexual sister, is now being buried in a packing crate with no decent funeral?

 

I don't think these geniuses quite get the concept of symbolism

Edited October 11, 2014 by Lokiberry

[apinknightmare]

So, let me get his straight (ha): the LGBT character they just killed and tossed on a trash can, in order to give her name and accomplishments to her heterosexual sister, is now being buried in a packing crate with no decent funeral?

I don't think these geniuses quite get the concept of symbolism

Maybe they'll explain it away as being some kind of LoA/warrior's no muss no fuss kind of burial thing? Although how any of them would know that I have no idea.

[JayKay]

The EPs said that Laurel has to question whether or not she's her sister this season. Why don't they go full blast with the disposable Canary metaphor and just make Laurel a rubber mask of Sara's face.

I'm sorry. I think the anger's finally starting to roll in. That pic was too soon.

[Sakura12]

I'm hoping the reason Nyssa shows up is to take Sara's body back to Nanda Parbat and give her a warriors funeral and burial.

[ban1o]

I guess since everybody in Starling City thinks she's dead they didn't have a full funeral. It makes sense. 

[Danny Franks]

It's Felicity, Roy, Laurel, Oliver and that looks like Diggle's arm, next to the shovel:

 

 

If Lance was there, I'd have to wonder why he was allowing his child to be buried in a box like that (I'm just super hung up on that box, haha).

 

This whole thing just feels sleazy. I have no clue who decided that this was the way to get rid of Sara, but they need to be fired. Just an awful way to treat her character. Shot and dropped in the garbage, then dumped in a reopened grave in the middle of the night without bothering to tell anyone. Gross.

[apinknightmare]

I guess since everybody in Starling City thinks she's dead they didn't have a full funeral. It makes sense. 

 

That's the thing - Oliver threw her a welcome home party. People know she's alive.

 

ETA: WAS ALIVE (RIP)

Edited October 11, 2014 by apinknightmare

[strikera0]

Someone on Reddit has managed to extract the voice from the rooftop scene. Listen for yourself, but it sounds a lot like Thea to me.

Edited October 11, 2014 by strikera0

[apinknightmare]

Someone on Reddit has managed to extract the voice from the rooftop scene. Listen for yourself, but it sounds a lot like Thea to me.

 

I think it's purposely ambiguous - that won't wind up being the actual voice of the person who did it. But it definitely sounds like it could be a woman.

 

If it is Thea, then a) I think it'll be purely for shock value, and b) wow, that's dark as hell.

[TanyaKay]

This whole thing just feels sleazy. I have no clue who decided that this was the way to get rid of Sara, but they need to be fired. Just an awful way to treat her character. Shot and dropped in the garbage, then dumped in a reopened grave in the middle of the night without bothering to tell anyone. Gross.

 

Within the show, I am willing to bet it must have been either Laurel or Oliver because they have the market cornered on stupid ideas.

Amongst the writer, probably Guggenheim being the exec producer and the guy who wanted to develop a multi episode mystery arc.

[ban1o]

That's the thing - Oliver threw her a welcome home party. People know she's alive.

 

ETA: WAS ALIVE (RIP)

Oh true. I forgot about that. That is  dumb then .Sara deserves a real funeral. I guess since the circumstances of her death are sketchy/questionable and she was an assassin they are deciding to keep it a secret I guess. Don't really know what's up with this show lol. 

I think it's purposely ambiguous - that won't wind up being the actual voice of the person who did it. But it definitely sounds like it could be a woman.

 

If it is Thea, then a) I think it'll be purely for shock value, and b) wow, that's dark as hell.

Yeah, the voice really doesn't sound like a female. Thea really doesn't make sense to me, but SO MANY people think it's her, just because it would be the most "shocking" person. But how could Thea possibly be redeemed if it was her? Her character would remain a villain or be killed off during her "redemption."

[Chaser]

I can't see it being Thea. It would certainly have the shock factor and be dark, but Oliver being 'responsible" for Sara's first death and then Thea actually killing her? They are already killed the romance between O and L, that would destory the friendship too. I don't think they would go there.

[Guest]

I think they must tell Lance because IIRC there were some pictures of Laurel, Quentin and Nyssa filming scenes together. I can maybe understand why Laurel doesn't want to tell him for health reasons but she has to. There is no way around it. It would be unbelievable otherwise.

 

And I guess they have to have a secret burial because they don't want anyone to find out that Sara was a secret masked vigilante/assassin by night which would happen if they handed her body over to the Police.

 

Emm are some media reportings its it for Olicity? Seems Lauren Brown is surprised about it.

https://twitter.com/SmoaknArrow/status/520959617200050176

 

Ha, some people are so obtuse. If certain media outlets are reporting that Olicity is over they clearly have their own agenda, they don't actually watch the show or they want clicks/comments. Olicity was clearly just beginning.