Spoiler Discussion Thread

[JenMD]

29 minutes ago, Carrie Ann said:

It was one possible future of our (at that point) current timeline, but it wasn't an alternate universe. So I always assumed that Connor Hawke/John Jr. would eventually exist in "our" world. Just assumed he would be Lyla and John's next kid. Now I feel like he's going to be their only kid. :(

Thanks, Carrie Ann, I think that makes me a little less confused.  Still not happy about possibly losing Baby Sara, though...

[Morrigan2575]

Well, we don't really know we're losing Baby Sara. I hope not because that will just piss me off.  Maybe they'll age her up and then have Baby Connor as the Baby (like in this AU, Dig/Lyla had a kid the first time they were married)?  Or maybe Baby Sara will have a twin brother, Baby John Jr? Or, yeah they might go with Baby John replacing Baby Sara ?

I don't think anything will happen to Lyla because they've at least mentioned her and that there will be fallout with Lyla after Dig hets home.  

[calliope1975]

4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

What if it's both? Maybe that's how they play the Flash S3? Flashpoint is resolved in 301 but Barry's memories start to blend together so we get glimpses of each Reality from episode to episode?  With Arrow just having the nu52 after effects? Oliver's new suit, Diggle's new kid/older kid/different gender kid (curse you @calliope1975) and whatever Felicity is carrying around? 

I can't help where my imagination goes!! I also think someone else raised that possibility and I just ran with it. 

Let's be real though, trufax, while NewBabySara was a BAMF riding the motorcycle on her daddy's back, she clearly couldn't live up to awesomesauce of OGBabySara. TPTB are taking this opportunity to stop the comparisons. :D It also stops the slight confusion of Baby Sara with NotDeadx3Sara - and I will NEVER believe they intended to bring Old Sara back to life once they had Digg name his daughter after her. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I can't remember where I saw it, but didn't someone at SDCC say that there was going to be a replacement for NewBabySara? Maybe they meant Baby Connor?

[Thundercatmary]

What this discussion really needs right now is a gif of bad ass BabySara on Dig's back riding that motorcycle. :D 

[Morrigan2575]

47 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

I can't remember where I saw it, but didn't someone at SDCC say that there was going to be a replacement for NewBabySara? Maybe they meant Baby Connor?

I just asked the same question.  I thought i saw someone mention a casting change for Baby Sara (again). First thought is they're aging her up. However, it's totally possible that they're switching out Baby Sara for Baby Connor Diggle. ?

[Starfish35]

I don't mind them using Flashpoint to introduce Connor John Jr.  I just really would be unhappy about baby Sara getting erased altogether. :(

[EmeraldArcher]

1 hour ago, Thundercatmary said:

What this discussion really needs right now is a gif of bad ass BabySara on Dig's back riding that motorcycle. :D 

How many bad ass Saras is this show going to erase so that others destined for the mask can replace them? First with BigSara and now BabySara? In a season about legacies?

I guess I also don't like that an adorable female character is probably being replaced by a male in a plot convoluted and stupid enough to explain the change.

[HighHopes]

Well Baby Sara is named Sara because Big Sara died. If in Flashpoint Big Sara didn't die (this is a possibility right?), would Baby Sara still be named Sara? Or would she have a different name?

(I never understood why/liked that Diggle and Lyla named their daughter after Sara actually. Did Lyla even meet Sara?)

Edited July 29, 2016 by HighHopes

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Not that this necessarily means anything, but didn't DR talk about Lyla this past weekend and what an impact enlisting again will have on their family? I feel like he mentioned her more than once. 

He definitely did.

39 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

Well Baby Sara is named Sara because Big Sara died. If in Flashpoint Big Sara didn't die (this is a possibility right?), would Baby Sara still be named Sara? Or would she have a different name?

(I never understood why/liked that Diggle and Lyla named their daughter after Sara actually. Did Lyla even meet Sara?)

Never on screen, nope. There's the possibility of them fist bumping between taking down Slade and Sara going off on a pleasure cruise to re-join a killing organisation from which she fled at the cost of death, I suppose.

[Starfish35]

If baby Sara ends up named something else, I could accept that.  But yeah, I'm a little uncomfortable about the idea of a daughter being replaced by a son.  

[FurryFury]

1 hour ago, HighHopes said:

Well Baby Sara is named Sara because Big Sara died. If in Flashpoint Big Sara didn't die (this is a possibility right?), would Baby Sara still be named Sara? Or would she have a different name?

(I never understood why/liked that Diggle and Lyla named their daughter after Sara actually. Did Lyla even meet Sara?)

Because the writers thought it would appease the fans. I've seen it happen on other shows, and really, Diggle naming his daughter after a close comrade is nowhere as bad as Snow and Charming naming their younger son after their daughter's baby daddy who abandoned her to jail when she was a teenager on Once Upon A Time.

[kismet]

Baby Sara becoming Baby Connor as a permanent FP change has been thrown around this board since last week when we got confirmation FP affecting all shows.

I'm not attached to baby Sara, but we better not lose Lyla I would be mad!

I'm feeling very zen about it all. Annoyed that MG feels the need to tell us all how to receivethe  spoilers,  but whatever. 

FP  will either fuck everything up for no good reason or it will make Arrow great again. I'm choosing to not prioritize the Arrow spoilers since they could be irrelevant or extremely critical.. The cognitive dissonance I feel regarding S5 is oddly comforting when I see this particular thread blow up in a matter of hours. 

[looptab]

I'm oscilllating between being curious about how Flashpoint is going to impact things, and wanting it to be over already. But 100x NO to no Baby Sara. 

 

19 hours ago, tv echo said:

That last line reminded me of KC's interviews where she was always talking about how Laurel fights with her heart or from the heart. ("Obviously last season, she was a fighter, she's always been a fighter, but it was a lot more heart. This season, I think it's not just heart; she actually has been training and working on that aspect of herself, the going out at night.")

The new vigilantes are like S3 Laurel - fighting with heart but not much training. 

Remember how, in past cast interviews, Arrow actors would sometimes answer questions by using what turned out to be lines or phrases from upcoming episodes? So I wonder if EBR was repeating a line that Oliver tells Curtis or the newbies in 501 or 502.  If so, it makes sense on its own.  But in context, it doesn't make sense because Laurel had both heart and training in S4 (presumably) and ended up dying anyway. Unless it's a character point for Oliver - that he maybe feels guilty for Laurel's death because he didn't train her or train her enough before accepting her onto the team.

I think you're overthinking this - I believe she just meant that the newbies need to train (and of course she'd say that, the first few eps show them training), most certainly not that people who are trained are not going to die. Before Laurel, Sara died too - and no one ever qustioned her training :) Plus, I really don't think Oliver would feel guilty about not training Laurel - he spent the whole season telling people she could take care of herself. :D

[tv echo]

Regarding baby Sara and Lyla this season - previous spoilers...

Quote

-- At HVFF-NY (on Jul. 3, 2016), DR teased two changes within Diggle’s world. One, his Spartan mask is getting a much-needed, “Cisco-created” upgrade.  Two, DR: "You will see a new Baby Sarah,” as a third child actress takes over the role. (Jul. 3, 2016 TVLine article, page 39 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- When asked if he thought Diggle's decision to go to the army again will have a impact on his relationship with Lyla, DR tweeted: "yes." (Jul. 19, 3016 DR tweet, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Quote

-- SDCC (Jul. 23, 2016): DR: "There's going to be some things that Diggle finds overseas that he's going to need the team, including his wife [Lyla, who's now head of ARGUS]." (Video of Seat42F interview with DR, page 40 of Spoilers thread)

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
TvForTheRestOfUs interview with EK
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per EK, this season we'll "definitely" see Curtis becoming more involved with Team Arrow and getting out in the field and helping out as much as he can, even though he's inexperienced: "You'll see his drive really coming through." 

-- Per EK, we'll also see his vigilante activities "juxtaposed with his home life."

-- EK doesn't know if Curtis still works at Palmer Tech, but he assumes so. In the first couple episodes, they don't really deal with Palmer Tech.  They're just focused right now on what Team Arrow looks like without Thea and Diggle.

-- Per EK, from the first audition, they talked about how Mr. Terrific "will be slightly different from the regular character (Curtis)."

-- EK again mentioned WM's comment about Felicity being software and Curtis being hardware. He said that they'll dive more into Curtis' "engineering prowess" and building tech stuff to help Team Arrow, so they won't have to rely on Star Labs.

ETA: It's interesting, but when KC talked about the inexperienced Laurel becoming a vigilante, she talked a lot about "heart."  Now EK is talking about the inexperienced Curtis becoming a vigilante and he talks about "drive". Is that a gender thing, do you think?

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
Whedonopolis interview with PB
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- On what we can expect to see from Quentin this season, PB: "Complete desolation and misery. It's Arrow... He's in a rough spot, actually. Getting over - or rather not getting over your daughter's death is a little, um, a little traumatic. So - yeah, he's sorta being revisited by old demons... He's having a tough time of it... So that's Lance's present state."

-- On whether Quentin will fall off the wagon and start drinking again, PB: "Things are getting a little rough. Like I said, a few old demons popping up."

-- On what he's most excited to do this season, PB: "Well, staying alive is always exciting... The thing that the writers do very well each season is [unintelligible word] shift the dynamics between the relationships around, you know, to the characters. And, you know, 'love you, hate you,' etc.  And, uh, this year certainly for what Lance is experiencing, um, some new dynamics with characters he hasn't necessarily been that close to in the past. So it's kinda nice to play with that a bit. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that."

-- Per PB, so far Quentin is not back on the police force.

-- On Quentin's relationship with Donna, PB said that it really helped Quentin deal with Laurel's death last season as Donna was someone he could lean on.  Then PB said: "We'll see how that relationship turns out. Do you think they're really compatible? ... She's very different from Dinah, isn't she? Dinah and Donna - quite different ladies."

-- On who Quentin is going to rely on most this season and be close to, PB: "Well that's - I don't want to say that. That's where some of the shift - new, sort of, relationships are occurring, which is one of the nice, sort of surprises, as it evolves.... I'll let you see it as it happens. It's quite sweet and surprising."

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
The Fandom interview with PB
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- PB: "Well, it's certainly desolate time for Lance. Um, you know, the demons are popping up for him in light of the tragedy he's experiencing."

-- On whether Quentin will be involved with the new vigilantes in Star City, PB: "Well, actually, there is a po - yeah, there is going to be some involvement there. There's some interesting, um - I think the one thing that they also do every year very well is shifting the dynamics between the characters, you know, who you hate, who you love, etc. And there's some really interesting stuff. Um, I'm working with some [of the?] actors I've never really worked with before and, um, it's nice seeing those characters suddenly, '[unintelligible word] now, who are you? what's your deal?' - you know. So there's some good stuff on that this season. Surprise relationships."

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

I have no interest in seeing mean alcoholic Quentin again. But I'm guessing his new BFF is going to be Oliver. 

 

Quote

ETA: It's interesting, but when KC talked about the inexperienced Laurel becoming a vigilante, she talked a lot about "heart."  Now EK is talking about the inexperienced Curtis becoming a vigilante and he talks about "drive". Is that a gender thing, do you think?

I think it's probably just two different people with two different takes on their characters using different words to describe them. 

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
Showbiz Junkies interview with PB
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- PB: "Lance is wrestling with some old demons, as he comes back for season 5. All upset about his dead daughter... Not for the first time, is it? ... No, Lance, he's in a bad way...  It's probably the worst way ever, believe it or not... He's suffering badly."

-- PB: "And there's some new, interesting, sort of dynamics between who he's relating with these days as well. It was a nice surprise that the writers sorta threw out. And, um, we've started that now and it's been enjoyable. So. You know, they do it every year - everyone's dynamics shift a little bit, you know, love you, hate you, hate you, love you, [unintelligible word] changes. And they've done the same thing this year, you know. Nice shift for all the characters."

[tv echo]

My guesses: (1) Quentin & Donna broke up over the summer due to incompatibility, and (2) this season Quentin develops a paternal relationship with one of the younger female characters - if past cast, then Felicity or Thea, or if new cast, then Evelyn.

Reasoning: Quentin's breakup with Donna also means he loses that anchor he relied on last season to keep him steady.  So he's tempted to drink again. But he gets involved in helping Team Arrow and develops a protective attitude toward Felicity, Thea or Evelyn - unconsciously wanting to protect another 'daughter' the way he wasn't able to protect his real daughter Laurel (or maybe as a way to appease his guilt over her death since Darhk killed her in retaliation for Quentin's betrayal).  In turn, that relationship gives him a new anchor and new purpose.

ETA: My initial thought was Evelyn, especially if Evelyn is an orphan without siblings, but my impression is that the person is a pre-existing cast member.

ETA2: Thea's not a vigilante at the start of S5 and it's not clear if/when she rejoins the team. However, WM did say in an SDCC interview that Malcolm will appear more toward the end of the season, so Thea's without a father figure for now (and Malcolm's certainly never been a good father figure).

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[Midnight Lullaby]

Yup. I'm betting on BFF Oliver as well, even if it would have been more interesting IMO if the person he could relate to in this particular moment was Felicity since from what they said she will go through some difficult times herself.

[looptab]

22 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I have no interest in seeing mean alcoholic Quentin again. But I'm guessing his new BFF is going to be Oliver. 

I was thinking Thea. Don't really know why, maybe because she's having this identity crisis re:Speedy and he is all out of daughters. It could also be Oliver, but they got definitely friendly last year, so I don't know that Paul would talk about it in those terms, if it were him?

Seems like Quentin and Donna are done. I have no strong opinion on them one way or the other, but why do you think they'd break them up?

Edited July 29, 2016 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

39 minutes ago, looptab said:

I was thinking Thea. Don't really know why, maybe because she's having this identity crisis re:Speedy and he is all out of daughters. It could also be Oliver, but they got definitely friendly last year, so I don't know that Paul would talk about it in those terms, if it were him?

I thought of Oliver solely for story beat purposes. What two better people to reminisce over Laurel than her dad and the love of her life who treated her like garbage? 

Edited July 29, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Ha, so true. This is me trying to avoid thinking about Oliver and Quentin's weird AF relationship until I have no other choice. :)

[kismet]

For QL, I was thinking TQ if they want to do father angle. I don't anticipate them wanting to bondhim with the the recurring newbie. And FSs time is probably being devoted to Curtis & her boyfriend.

OQ if they're being lazy.

Most interesting bff for QL would be Dig. I actually could see it happening, especially if Dig comes back damaged. 

[tv echo]

I think the EPs decided to drop Donna for now because she doesn't fit into the new, "back to basics", gritty crime storytelling show they want to portray this season - where everyone's miserable again, including Quentin. Also, they may have wanted to sideline Felicity's family for now. Also, they have a bunch of newbies on the team that need screen time.

Quote

-- CR: “I’ve relished every moment playing Donna since season 3 when I was lucky enough to start being a part of this show but, we have no agreement in place for me to continue further. Things can, obviously, change but as of right now, I have no plans to return for season five."(May 18, 2016 Emertainment Monthly tweet & article, page 37 of Spoilers thread)

Edited July 29, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

10 minutes ago, looptab said:

Seems like Quentin and Donna are done. I have no strong opinion on them one way or the other, but why do you think they'd break them up?

I imagined it was due to Donna not being able to handle Lance's doom and gloo 24/7 for the entire summer. For my money he pushes her away either consciously or subconsciously.

while I would love for him and Felicity to develop some relationship, I'm leaning towards Oliver as well. Because, you know, Felicity will have the new boyfriend, Curtis, some scenes with Oliver, maybe with Dig once in a blue moon, so whoa, let's not get crazy here. I just don't care about that sort of dynamic with Thea, she's already got her crazy daddy and Walter is always just a phone call away for some positive parental influence. And jeez, not Evelyn. I can deal with her training just to have someone Oliver can bitch at, but don't give her too many scenes until she proves she can do better than last year.

[Velocity23]

The Shows filming in British Columbia will be off on Monday since its a holiday. British Columbia Day.

[Chaser]

At a Con, SA said the relationship with Quentin was the most interesting of the first couple episodes.

[tv echo]

I had initially dismissed Oliver because PB worked quite a bit with SA last season and I had the impression that the person was someone that PB hadn't worked much with before. But @Chaser is right that SA did mention Quentin at a previous con - so I guess you have to throw Oliver into the pool of possibilities as well:

Quote

-- At HVFF-NY (on Jul. 3, 2016), In response to fan who asked about Oliver being Mayor since he's read the first two episodes, SA: "Um, I think that of all of the things that I remember from those first two episodes, uh, Oliver's relationship with Lance - where Lance is, in terms of the type of place and the state of mind that he's in, and their dynamic, um - it's probably the thing that I'm most looking forward to in terms of doing the scenes. And I think that, you know, obviously with the events that happened towards the end of the fourth season, there has been a sizeable shift forever in terms of the dynamic between Oliver and Quentin, and a lot of that actually came from him calling him Quentin for the first time.  And that's something that we continue to explore. But Lance does not get reinstated... Sorry." (Video of part 1 of SA panel at HVFF-NY, page 431 of Social Media thread, with transcription posted on page 39 of Spoilers thread)

[tv echo]

At least Cody Rhodes is doing some Arrow promotion (and he's not even in the premiere)...

[kismet]

I'm oddly enjoying the Cody Rhodes addition. We'll see if it lasts.

[TrueMyth]

On 7/28/2016 at 3:57 PM, tv echo said:

I don't understand how Barry and Felicity would even meet in the Flashpoint timeline.  IIRC, it was the murder of his mother and his father's wrongful conviction, when little Barry saw a mysterious blur, that spurred Barry to pursue reports of unexplained phenomena and led Barry to take an unsanctioned road trip to Starling City - where he met Felicity.

Does anyone remember, at the end of the Flash, when Barry cuts in and saves his mom, is his younger self there?  I could see how seeing your mother threatened by blurry men in the middle of the night, even if she lives and you have both parents growing up, could stick with a little boy.  Such a little boy might still find himself investigating strange crimes as they pop up or being interested in the Starling City vigilante, thereby not changing his introduction in season two that much.  It would also explain how he still ends up missing the accelerator opening and being in his lab at the right time to give him his powers.

It's a tad hand-wavey, but I think it works.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

Does anyone remember, at the end of the Flash, when Barry cuts in and saves his mom, is his younger self there?

IIRC, there were about 4 or 5 different Barrys there. Maybe 100.

Edited July 29, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

13 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

The actor turned his Instagram account private, that's why the photo disappeared. I wonder if someone from Arrow told him the photo is somewhat spoilerish (spoilery?). 

Maybe, although it's Dig in army duds which is to be expected since he re-enlisted in 423. And this guy only has two credits on IMDb - Waspy Guy on iZombie and a short in post-production. I don't want to be mean, but it sort of spells canon fodder to me.

[tv echo]

Spoilers from SDCC press roundtables (Jul. 23, 2016) - 
RealistikkVideos interview with WH
(video posted by tv echo on page 41 of Spoilers thread)

-- Per WH, at the start of S5, we'll find Thea "has solidified a place for herself inside of the Mayoral office." Thea will be doing the Mayor's job for Oliver (community service, speeches, getting people to do things) because he's busy vigilanting.

ETA: WH pretty much says the same stuff in her other SDCC press interviews, so that's probably the last video I'll be posting from the SDCC press roundtables.

Edited July 30, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Re Cody Rhodes' latest tweet - here's one definition of a "window shot"...

Quote

Window Shot The last shot of the day. One of the happiest things you can hear after a 15-hour day. "O.K. everybody, this is the window shot so let's concentrate." Some people say the term arose out of "when do we go?", but the actual meaning goes back to the early days of filmmaking when everyone on the crew was paid in cash daily. After the last shot was completed they went to the window to get their payment. Also called a martini shot in the U.S.

http://www.filmterms.com/10_Film_terms.html 

Edited July 30, 2016 by tv echo

[pivot]

Is there anything to be excited about in the spoilers so far? It sounds like lame new characters, Olicity apart and 24/7 doom and gloom. Basically everything I hate about the show.

[kismet]

7 hours ago, pivot said:

Is there anything to be excited about in the spoilers so far? It sounds like lame new characters, Olicity apart and 24/7 doom and gloom. Basically everything I hate about the show.

Arrow suit has sleeves again. And Bratva is confirmed. That's about all the exciting I have found.

Edited July 31, 2016 by kismet

[tv echo]

ITA - posting here because it discusses a S5 spoiler...

‘Arrow’ Season 5: 4 Reasons Why We Don’t Want Felicity Smoak To Have A New Boyfriend [POLL]
Fashion & Style  July 30, 2016
http://www.fashionnstyle.com/articles/89005/20160730/arrow-season-5-4-reasons-dont-want-felicity-smoak-have-new-boyfriend-poll.htm

Quote

If the "Arrow" writers want to add some interesting drama to the upcoming fifth season, it would be far more interesting to watch Oliver and Felicity work on their relationship.

Perhaps they could have a heart-to-heart where they discussed Felicity's abandonment issues and Oliver's fear of opening up to people.

Fans would vastly prefer to watch Oliver and Felicity act like mature adults and work on fixing their romantic relationship in the upcoming fifth season than be forced to suffer through a contrived love triangle.
*  *  *
One of the reasons why fans absolutely adore Oliver and Felicity's relationship is due to the fact that Amell and Rickards have great chemistry.

It would be a shame to have to sit through a contrived love triangle, especially when the writers could have used that space to focus on Oliver and Felicity working past their issues or joking around in the Foundry.

4. Constant Drama Will Bore Fans.
3. It Is More Interesting To See Oliver And Felicity Work Things Out.
2. There Was Already A Love Triangle In Season Three.
1. Stephen Amell And Emily Bett Rickards Have Great Chemistry Together.

Edited July 31, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Regarding the MM tweet, considering it was sent out on the same day that BamBam said he was shooting his final shot for 501/502, I don't think it necessarily means MM is in 503. 

It's possible that the whole gang of noobs are in 503 but, it's also possible that they were still filming 502 scenes this week.

[bijoux]

Yeah, I think there is some filming overlap between 501/502 and 503. 

[dtissagirl]

16 minutes ago, tv echo said:

CH was apparently on the Arrow set with EK on Sunday (July 31)...

This has been reported by a couple of sites -- pretty sure they snapchatted during Emily's birthday celebrations. Also, no show films on Sundays.

[bijoux]

Yeah, by all accounts - Fanta's caption on Saturday saying "Day 1", photos cropping up on Instagram - it was a two day celebration.

[dtissagirl]

CBR just tweeted [again!] about it 2 minutes ago. Clickbaiting is a srs bznss, mkay.

[lemotomato]

I think yesterday was a holiday in British Columbia, so today would be the earliest they'd even be on set.

[Belinea]

29 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

CBR just tweeted [again!] about it 2 minutes ago. Clickbaiting is a srs bznss, mkay.

About what? 

[dtissagirl]

Just now, Belinea said:

About what? 

About Colton being on set on Sunday. He was not on set on Sunday.

[Belinea]

@dtissagirl: Thanks :-)

Edited August 2, 2016 by Belinea