Spoiler Discussion Thread

[lemotomato]

Matt Mitovich clarifies the "James" role:

[Thundercatmary]

I love how everyone's first response is he better stay away from Felicity lol

Kidding aside I just don't want another mask, like others have said we have more than enough already.

[bijoux]

I can see a bad dude as Oliver's love interest much sooner than Felicity's. She's had good people instincts since she appeared on the scene. When was she once taken in by a bad person? 

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I can see a bad dude as Oliver's love interest much sooner than Felicity's. She's had good people instincts since she appeared on the scene. When was she once taken in by a bad person? 

IDK... she dated Palmer so.... :p

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

7 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

No I don't. I just don't think it's a nice way to refer to the kid of someone you care about. But @wonderwall is right -this isn't the thread for this convo, so I'll drop it.

The system works!  Thank you!  :) 

[bijoux]

8 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

IDK... she dated Palmer so.... :p

I'm aware she's not perfect, but Palmer, douchy as I found him, was still supposed to be a good guy on the show. Oliver, on the other hand, literally went to bed with Isabel and figuratively with Malcolm, and was chummy with Blood for a while there. 

[pootlus]

4 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I'm 99.99 percent sure we're not gonna see Poppy again after this season. Only reaction I've seen to that character is apathy and that will get you gone faster than anything.

#blessed #grateful

[bijoux]

The dialogue tease has got to be Felicity, right? The words fit Thea as well, but I don't think she'd be off with Alex taqking a break in some dreary cul-de-sac by the look of things, if she were promoting getting trained in magic.

Quote

"I'm not just saying this because I love Harry Potter, but why are we not all taking those lessons?"

[looptab]

So much Harry Potter love this year - first the Quidditch reference, then Voldemort, now..Hogwarts? :D

[Tallis]

It's pretty much got to be Felicity but just imagine for a moment how awesome it would be if it were Oliver...

[Morrigan2575]

My first thought was Felicity but, then I had a sneaky thought about it being Thea

[Velocity23]

For me it all depends if Thea is already on her vacation with Alex.

[bijoux]

If she's not, wouldn't she stick around for this? And if she's commenting while on vacation, wouldn't she head back?

[Velocity23]

Well we saw her in that promo running away from ghosts on vacation and it looked like Ivy Town scenery.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Velocity23

[tv echo]

Regarding this new character "James"...

I agree that next season they're going to re-create the much-praised dynamic of S2 where the new character ties together Oliver's flashbacks and present day.  He doesn't necessarily have to be a member of Bratva, but could be an enemy of Bratva.  The casting call said "any ethinicity".

Unlike Slade, however, if "James" works out, he could join Team Green Arrow.  He really sounds more like someone who starts out an enemy but ends up an ally or friend. Therefore, I'd be more concerned for the Oliggle bromance than for Olicity. ;) 

I never read the Green Arrow comics, but - from what I've heard - doesn't the description of "James" sound more like the comics GA than Arrow's GA ("irrepressibly charming", "physical threat", "capable of having a good time")?  He could end up being the snarky badass.

I'm not concerned about him cluttering up the cast next season.  JB and PB are series regulars this season, but Malcolm and Quentin were not in every episode.

Edited May 3, 2016 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

For me it all depends if Thea is already on her vacation with Alex.

That's what i was thinking. If it's before Thea takes off on vacation i can see her making that comment.  Basically why aren't we all going to Hub City with you to learn this magic? 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I agree, I think it's Thea. It might even be during a discussion with the team where Oliver encourages her to go on the vacation while he (and Felicity) decide to pursue magic lessons. Although I really want it to be Felicity because my head canon is that she's the one who got Oliver to read the Potter books during their Summer of Love ;)

[dtissagirl]

I get why people always get up in arms about new regulars, but this is 100% business: if you can afford it, you offer series regular to the main villain of the season so the actor doesn't get a different job.

Edited May 3, 2016 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I definitely don't think they'll do an O/F/new guy love triangle, but I have to say, I think the reactions are fair. Guggie deserves zero trust, and Wendy not that much more.

[Morrigan2575]

27 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I get why people always get up in arms about new regulars, but this is 100% business: if you can afford it, you offer series regular to the main villain of the season so the actor doesn't get a different job.

True but, people should also remember that TV Line announced that Darhk would be a series regular and Neal M isn't.  It's entirely possible that once again TV Line got their info wrong. 

[nksarmi]

28 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I get why people always get up in arms about new regulars, but this is 100% business: if you can afford it, you offer series regular to the main villain of the season so the actor doesn't get a different job.

Well that makes perfect sense. If you want to use someone over the course of an entire season - the worst thing would be if they got another job and you had to write around it.

[apinknightmare]

I don't care what he is as long as we're not in for more love triangle nonsense. Like, I'd rather watch the two cardboard cutouts that are Oliver and Poppy rub up against each other than to have another love triangle. 

[looptab]

I honestly don't care who/what/where this guy ends up being,  as long as they don't screw the casting up.

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

True but, people should also remember that TV Line announced that Darhk would be a series regular and Neal M isn't.  It's entirely possible that once again TV Line got their info wrong. 

For that I kind of assumed that he was supposed to be a series regular, but then negotiations happened once they actually got NM and they changed it to his "special appearance by" credit. I do kind of take the "series regular" report from Tvline with a grain of salt though in terms of what's actually going to happen in the next season, since s4 isn't even over yet.

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Includes #DCTV All-Access video...

Arrow: Ollie To Visit Hub City, Home Of The Question
Jay Jayson- 05/02/2016
http://comicbook.com/dc/2016/05/02/arrow-ollie-to-visit-hub-city-home-of-the-question/

This is a screencap from this preview. Is it an old shot? Because it fits more with an underground casino than the boring vacation spot Alex picks. Or is it possibly from the engagement party episode? I need to check Thea's outfits in that one. If it's a new scene from this episode, nice mileage on those feathers.

[Velocity23]

The feathers remind of the engagment party Donna planned.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Velocity23

[dtissagirl]

39 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

True but, people should also remember that TV Line announced that Darhk would be a series regular and Neal M isn't.  It's entirely possible that once again TV Line got their info wrong. 

If it's not a legit regular gig -- it might be just simplistic language in casting sides, and TV Line is taking it literally -- it's normal to use the word "regular" in casting like this meaning this is a season-long gig, and whoever gets it won't be able to book other significant jobs for a whole season.

Then once you cast, you hash out in contracts how exactly the person is getting billed. Sometimes it's more money to get the "special guest star" spot than 5th or 6th billed in the credits.

Edited May 3, 2016 by dtissagirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

Looks like that video just used footage from when Donna was still fixing up the loft for the engagement party. That looks like it's from Thea's convo with Oliver about the suspicious checks.

[bijoux]

She had the same shirt on in that episode, so it seems like it is old footage. I'm not really sure why they didn't just use the footage from the promo.

http://arrowfashionblog.com/2016/02/18/thea-grey-foil-hem-t-shirt/

[Morrigan2575]

33 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

If it's not a legit regular gig -- it might be just simplistic language in casting sides, and TV Line is taking it literally -- it's normal to use the word "regular" in casting like this meaning this is a season-long gig, and whoever gets it won't be able to book other significant jobs for a whole season.

Then once you cast, you hash out in contracts how exactly the person is getting billed. Sometimes it's more money to get the "special guest star" spot than 5th or 6th billed in the credits.

Yes, yes all I'm saying is people really shouldn't freak out over a "series regular " label. And you (general you) shouldn't assume that TV Line knows WTF they're talking about this early in the process.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. All it means is they need this guy to live in Vancouver for a year.

 But I don't have any hopes that Arrow is gonna ever stop biting more than it can chew. I don't really have hopes for more character scenes just because they got rid of the Laurel dead weight. I hope stunt/fight scenes improve, and I hope they realize Thea can talk to Felicity and Diggle sometimes, and that Diggle and Felicity can talk to each other too, but more than that? This show has never been super character driven, so I don't expect that to change.

Plus, they're always gonna be trying to bring in as many 3rd-4th-5th tier DC names into the show as they can. I don't see that changing much. It might not be for spin-off tryouts, but 3-4 guest actors per episode [might go higher depending on the flashbacks], plus a few recurring characters for the whole season? Oh yeah.

Edited May 3, 2016 by dtissagirl

[tangerine95]

I don't have a problem with them adding new characters, this James guy sounds like a bad guy if not the big bad and I would like it if they connect him to both the flashbacks and the present. My problem is them adding people to team Arrow, that's the place they don't need new characters and they haven't shown to be good at writing a team dynamic when there's more than 3 people tbh.That's why I'm only really worried about how Curtis will be used next season.I really think there's zero need for him on the team and becoming Mr Terrific but I'm giving him a chance because I like that he didn't take away from Felicity this season like I was worried he might after the Ray mess in season 3 and because Echo is the best at posting bts stuff.

[Angel12d]

I didn't even consider 'James' might be part of another love triangle but I do understand why some are worried about it, now that I think about it. This show relies on cheap drama and somehow thinks people want to actually watch love triangles. But I stand by my earlier thought - we'll probably meet James in flashbacks and he eventually turns up in the present day for REVENGE. Mwahahaha. I really don't think he has anything to do with O/F, even though I have no idea what they're gonna do with those two in s5.

My only hope for s5 is that they improve fight scenes, give us more interactions with different characters and make sure Felicity isn't seen to be replaceable now that Curtis is here.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Angel12d

[looptab]

Thinking some more on the dialogue tease, could it be that whoever says it it's not thinking about themselves wanting to go, but about someone else, like some sort of invite? Since Diggle seems to be off looking for Andy, what if say, Felicity, says that trying to convince him to come along?

[EmeraldArcher]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I didn't even consider 'James' might be part of another love triangle but I do understand why some are worried about it, now that I think about it. This show relies on cheap drama and somehow thinks people want to actually watch love triangles. But I stand by my earlier thought - we'll probably meet James in flashbacks and he eventually turns up in the present day for REVENGE. Mwahahaha. I really don't think he has anything to do with O/F, even though I have no idea what they're gonna do with those two in s5.

My only hope for s5 is that they improve fight scenes, give us more interactions with different characters and make sure Felicity isn't seen to be replaceable now that Curtis is here.

I really hope the fight scenes improve.  I'd like to blame it all on reducing Oliver's skills to accommodate the lackluster Black Canary, but even his rare solo stunts were blah.  It's not just the choreography that sucks now, it's that SA isn't nearly as menacing as he was in the earlier seasons.  I suppose that's because Oliver is moving to a happier state of being, but I would hope he'd be even more a bad ass now that his loved ones have been directly targeted.

 

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

Regarding this new character "James"...

I never read the Green Arrow comics, but - from what I've heard - doesn't the description of "James" sound more like the comics GA than Arrow's GA ("irrepressibly charming", "physical threat", "capable of having a good time")?  He could end up being the snarky badass.

@tv echo, I thought the same thing!  He does sound a lot like the GA from the comics (I'm also not a GA comic reader).

I would LOVE if Oliver had the Harry Potter line, but I can't figure out why he wouldn't be the one learning to use the magic in order for him to say it.

[catrox14]

26 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

really hope the fight scenes improve.  I'd like to blame it all on reducing Oliver's skills to accommodate the lackluster Black Canary, but even his rare solo stunts were blah.  It's not just the choreography that sucks now, it's that SA isn't nearly as menacing as he was in the earlier seasons.  I suppose that's because Oliver is moving to a happier state of being, but I would hope he'd be even more a bad ass now that his loved ones have been directly targeted.

I blame it on that stupid new costume.  I think it restrict's SA too much.  I don't think he thought it would but it does,IMO. I think he moved just fine in the fights in the flashbacks when he is wearing plainclothes.

[EmeraldArcher]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I blame it on that stupid new costume.  I think it restrict's SA too much.  I don't think he thought it would but it does,IMO. I think he moved just fine in the fights in the flashbacks when he is wearing plainclothes.

S4 flashbacks?  I don't remember any awesome fight scenes in them this year--but I honestly zone out during them.  I know that he started the season by being knocked off a roof and then being jumped by ARGUS guys. I can't remember any of the island stunts being awesome. He also hasn't seemed menacing, except very recently when he shot that guy--but I'm looking for more physicality than that.  I wasn't even that impressed by his parkouring after Roy this season. He looked sloppier than he did in previous seasons--probably from lack of practicing anything besides twirling around and knocking out bad guys by hitting them on the waist as he pirouetted. Ugh.

I agree that the suit is stupid and restricts his movements.  I have no idea why anyone thought the turtle shells would be a good idea, and I especially hate those thick straps that anchor the shells to his arms. Ugh.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, looptab said:

I honestly don't care who/what/where this guy ends up being,  as long as they don't screw the casting up.

With the exception of Poppy, I would say the casting post-pilot has been pretty good. It's the writing I fear. So my hope is they don't mess up the writing and have a journey & characterization for James planned out and it's quality not some subpar Batman knock-off from the dollar store. Most of the actors have been good in their roles until the writers meander around mid-season when they forget what story they were writing or somehow try to squeeze a character in or write a completely new version of the character. And the writers have a tendency to write against the actors/characters strength, so hoping they don't do that either.

[looptab]

Eh, there's Poppy, there's Ra's al Guhl, there's Reiter. Wildcat didn't do much for me. There are a lot of screw ups in casting, not just Poppy. So I'll focus on that, for now. 

[thegirlsleuth]

18 minutes ago, kismet said:

Most of the actors have been good in their roles until the writers meander around mid-season when they forget what story they were writing or somehow try to squeeze a character in or write a completely new version of the character. And the writers have a tendency to write against the actors/characters strength, so hoping they don't do that either.

Episodes 10 - 17, the point in the season when the writers throw subplots at a wall in order to stall for the big smash bang finale.  I can't tell if they do it because they REALLY don't know how to write a second act, or if they're tired because they shoot up to Ep 15 before the break and need some sleep and can't be bothered anymore.  After season three I'm suspecting the former, since Guggenheim swung from epic gamechanger to epic gamechanger, with little thought given to plot or character progression.  I have high hopes that they will pull out of the crash going forward for the rest of the season--I'm feeling magnanimous since they killed Laurel--but who knows? The magic plot, the flashbacks, and the fake canary plot do not have me excited, but there is a lot I'm interested in:  Digg and his brother, whether Thea is going to finally finish off Malcolm, Felicity and her father, and what the heck is going on with that corn. I'm also looking forward to Oliver inspiring others. 

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, EmeraldArcher said:

S4 flashbacks?  I don't remember any awesome fight scenes in them this year--but I honestly zone out during them.  I know that he started the season by being knocked off a roof and then being jumped by ARGUS guys. I can't remember any of the island stunts being awesome. He also hasn't seemed menacing, except very recently when he shot that guy--but I'm looking for more physicality than that.  I wasn't even that impressed by his parkouring after Roy this season. He looked sloppier than he did in previous seasons--probably from lack of practicing anything besides twirling around and knocking out bad guys by hitting them on the waist as he pirouetted. Ugh.

I agree that the suit is stupid and restricts his movements.  I have no idea why anyone thought the turtle shells would be a good idea, and I especially hate those thick straps that anchor the shells to his arms. Ugh.

 

?..I didn't say they were awesome fight scenes in flashbacks. I just said he moved better in his plainclothes than the costume. He looks sloppier because he's a a costume that IMO limits his movements. And I truly don't think the show thinks anyone will notice the fights are individually sloppier because they are staging fight scenes with multiple people and they can do all the jump cuts and shaky cams to take the place of good stunts. 

[EmeraldArcher]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

 

?..I didn't say they were awesome fight scenes in flashbacks. I just said he moved better in his plainclothes than the costume. He looks sloppier because he's a a costume that IMO limits his movements. And I truly don't think the show thinks anyone will notice the fights are individually sloppier because they are staging fight scenes with multiple people and they can do all the jump cuts and shaky cams to take the place of good stunts. 

I didn't mean to imply that you said anything about "awesome fight scenes"--sorry if it came across that way.  My original point was about missing awesome fight scenes, to which you replied he "moved just fine" in plain clothes in the flash backs.  I was still just lamenting that "moving just fine" hasn't translated into any better fight/action scenes this season.

For example, Oliver is wearing street clothes when he chased down Roy in the parkour sequence, but I thought he still looked sloppy compared to his S1-2 stunts:

https://youtu.be/MOIfLHdBgk4?t=19s

So to me, it's a variety of factors that have contributed to the down grade of the fights/stunts this year, not just the new GA uniform.

[kismet]

1 hour ago, looptab said:

Eh, there's Poppy, there's Ra's al Guhl, there's Reiter. Wildcat didn't do much for me. There are a lot of screw ups in casting, not just Poppy. So I'll focus on that, for now. 

Wildcat I think was OK, he just needed a better plot & acting partners. 

I actually enjoyed Ras until he became obsessed with OQ, misogynistic and wanted to destroy SC out of the blue when the writers got directionless midseason. But I got his zen old man can't be bothered mellow mood he had for the beginning of the season.

There was only one scene that ever worked for Poppy,  the rest has just been horrible writing and acting. So casting & writing fail.

But I do hope they cast James well, since good casting can overcome bad writing choices like Slade's motvation in late s2 being all about Shado.

Edited May 3, 2016 by kismet
Clarification & needing to get on platform that let's me edit & use delete button.

[Morrigan2575]

There seems to be some confusion over the LoT crossovers. 

Nyssa is crossing over to LoT in episode 114, which airs this week.   http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/legends-of-tomorrow-episode-114-river.html?m=1

Lance is crossing over in 116, which airs 5/19.

http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/04/the-cw-primetime-listings-for-week-of_29.html?m=1

 

There's also a potential Felicity crossover to LoT (she was in the sizzle reel) which seems to fit in the season finale, description. However, she's not listed in the episode description so it's hard to tell for certain.

[bijoux]

I thought they would be dropped off in Central City in present day. And Felicity is still in wheelchair in the reel. She pretty much ended up in it right after Rip took everyone, didn't she? I remember mention of the team getting dropped off a few months after they left.

[Morrigan2575]

Sorry it's Central City but, a few months after they took off. Doesn't say present day but, who knows?  Seems odd to word it "a few months later" instead of saying current time or May.

As for Felicity, she was in the sizzle reel, there seems to be some debate over if she's still in the wheel chair or if she's just wearing an old dress. I don't remember the sizzle reel well enough to say where in the timeline it takes place.  

A Couple of months later makes sense if they she's in the wheelchair.  However, it doesn't make sense for present time. However, (again)  present time makes sense for the Sara/Lance scene 

Edited May 3, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Angel12d]

I wonder how they're going to handle Laurel's death on LoT. I don't watch the show but I'm morbidly interested to see how they deal with Sara not being able to go back in time and save her or whether they do leave that option open.

No idea about the new dialogue tease. Diggle maybe? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited May 3, 2016 by Angel12d

[wonderwall]

Dialogue tease could be either Small Diggle or Slade

[bijoux]

I think the dialogue is actually Dig to Andy after Andy bitches at him for making him feel not good enough or whatever.

[Starfish35]

Regarding the LoT crossover, as Morrigan2575 said, Nyssa appears in this week's episode, not the finale.  I can't prove it, but my guess is that this will also be the episode where Ray visits Felicity.   Sara seems to be seeing Nyssa pre-Sins of the Father, judging by the fact that Nyssa is wearing her League outfit and looks to be in Nanda Parbat.  And we guessed that Ray's visit to Felicity was around the time of Sins of the Father, judging by her outfit and the fact that she was still in the wheelchair.