Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Velocity23]

flash also got the comic preview today.

[Guest]

Doesn't putting 'The Black Canary' on her grave mean that no one else can pick up the mantle though? And that baby BC clearly appears beyond 419. I really don't know what they're doing with that storyline and I don't really care either tbh. I'm guessing it's just a way to make Quentin doubt she's really dead. IDK.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Guest

[Chaser]

Lances voice 'cracks' in the preview. Awww.

Oliver's line about climbing up into grief is awkward. Kind of a terrible line.

[tarotx]

I think it's going to be a story line to address rather or not there are more Lazarus pit's and other resurrection mojo so that the audience knows the show is keeping Laurel dead dead.

[Guest]

Actually I just noticed in the preview that Lance says the BC appearance was just after the Iron Heights thing which means baby BC probably didn't know the real BC was dead. How does that work? I assumed she would be appearing because she heard BC was dead. I don't get it.

[Morrigan2575]

How the hell did Baby Canary get her hands on Laurel's outfit and bark collar? Did she steal it from the hospital?

Also why would this show put her in the same freaking costume?

[Primal Slayer]

Because this is the same show that had Laurel wearing Saras jacket yet Sara magically has another one that appears out of nowhere once she is back to life and suited up.

 

Oh and the same show that has Roy and Thea "wearing" the same suit.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

Maybe she works in the hospital and stole the clothes and collar.

Or she is a rookie cop.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Chaser

[Primal Slayer]

And of course no one on the team would probably even notice.

[ArrowFan]

I'm actually intrigued by that 421 episode description. I didn't expect Felicity to be asking her dad for help. Interesting! And I definitely want to know what Noah says that has Oliver rattled or whatever. I'm not sure if him telling Oliver he's not good enough for her would rattle him much considering he has himself admitted he probably doesn't deserve her. I mean, he said that in his vows. So I really don't know what that could be. 

 

There's a theory floating around on twitter and tumblr that Noah has another daughter. Oliver finds out. Something will tempt him not to tell Felicity, maybe Noah himself, maybe Oliver realizes this half-sister got a father when Felicity's left her behind (and boy would that hurt her). And maybe THIS TIME, he will reveal the truth to Felicity. It's seriously the perfect mirror situation to the baby mama drama.

Edited April 23, 2016 by ArrowFan

[catrox14]

How the hell did Baby Canary get her hands on Laurel's outfit and bark collar? Did she steal it from the hospital?

Also why would this show put her in the same freaking costume?

 

I'm gonna wank that she's been stalking Laurel for a long time  and made her own costume and is a science wiz and made her own bark collar.

[Guest]

I can ignore baby BC having her own costume because yeah, Roy gave his to Thea and then magically had another one when he appeared this season. Laurel took all of Sara's stuff and yet it wasn't the same at all and had an additional million buckles. Not to mention that her wig was magically free of blood.

 

But having her own sonic device is weird and also the timing of it all. It's pretty much implying there was two BC's running around at the same time and baby BC didn't just appear because BC died. Weird.

[statsgirl]

I'm curious why Felicity asks her father for help considering she was the one who put him in prison in the first place. Is it a case of needing the devil you know (or rather are related to)?

 

I like it when decisions are complex with a complex character. Sadly, while Oliver's decisions are often complex, he usually goes for the most simplistic resolution.

[Sunshine]

Maybe Baby Canary is a metahuman. 

[Guest]

I'm curious why Felicity asks her father for help considering she was the one who put him in prison in the first place. Is it a case of needing the devil you know (or rather are related to)?

 

I like it when decisions are complex with a complex character. Sadly, while Oliver's decisions are often complex, he usually goes for the most simplistic resolution.

I think it's a case of needing the devil you know tbh. When I read that episode description I got Papa Pope/Olivia vibes from Scandal where she doesn't like him but needs his help anyway haha.

[Thundercatmary]

Question where is this info coming from about Felicity's dad and his interactions with Oliver etc? I've been at work and I obviously missed some stuff. :D 

[Guest]

Question where is this info coming from about Felicity's dad and his interactions with Oliver etc? I've been at work and I obviously missed some stuff. :D

It's the 421 episode description in the spoilers thread.

[bijoux]

I'm gonna wank that she's been stalking Laurel for a long time  and made her own costume and is a science wiz and made her own bark collar.

I was going with candy striper who got her things at the hospital, but this works.

  

I'm curious why Felicity asks her father for help considering she was the one who put him in prison in the first place. Is it a case of needing the devil you know (or rather are related to)?

 

I like it when decisions are complex with a complex character. Sadly, while Oliver's decisions are often complex, he usually goes for the most simplistic resolution.

I imagine they need his expertise in a way. Or maybe his bad guys connections.

As for Oliver's talk with him, I imagine it's something like, "You and I are so much alike." To which Oliver is much more susceptible than Felicity. The secret theory is valid, but I feel that will be addressed in 420. Does anyone else find it odd that the episode description doesn't mention anyone else? I don't really mind, this is intriguing. Still odd. But man, what a set of in-laws these two have. I'm extra saddened that Moira and Robert are dead. Can you IMAGINE those family dinners?

[Thundercatmary]

I'm very excited for anything about Felicity and her father, I don't want it to just be another version of MM and Thea though, Like he's obviously a bad guy etc but I hope they make it a bit more complicated than that, I want to see  some conflict etc between them but not trying to kill her or Team Arrow. I'm not even sure if I'm making sense lmao

[Genki]

How the hell did Baby Canary get her hands on Laurel's outfit and bark collar? Did she steal it from the hospital?

Also why would this show put her in the same freaking costume?

 

Ewww I hope it's not Laurel's actual costume, even those magic suit cleaner/odour neutralising display case, which I obviously the lair has, surely can't get rid of blood or arrow holes.

 

I honestly find it puzzling that they are putting "Black Canary" on Laurel's grave, doesn't her being outed as a vigilante invalidate all her conviction as an ADA, or at least put them under review?

[wonderwall]

I can imagine this girl saw the costume and wanted to imitate it... It's not that hard to re-create costumes especially if one has seen it in real life or in a photo

[SmallScreenDiva]

I honestly find it puzzling that they are putting "Black Canary" on Laurel's grave, doesn't her being outed as a vigilante invalidate all her conviction as an ADA, or at least put them under review?

 

It would, if this were the real world. But in Arrow world, where the ADA has to be told by her friends that they could be witnesses in the biggest case of her career, I don't think anybody will be too worried about her previous work. 

[ComicFan777]

I am curious how Baby Canary got the canary collar if she has one.  Even Curtis was impressed with Cisco's work, so it wouldn't be something easily manufactured.  From the promo, it might have been more powerful than LL's - but then again, I could never figure out why sometimes the canary collar didn't seem to be effective and other times, seemed to be pretty powerful - baffling, really...

 

If Baby Canary is a metahuman, that would definitely make it easier to explain why she could be a copycat BC.

Edited April 23, 2016 by ComicFan777

[Chaser]

I'm looking forward to watching TA and SA act opposite each other. I was disappointed we didn't get a scene in his first appearances.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Chaser

[looptab]

Remind me, did we have anything official about TA's return? Someone upthread mentioned WM saying something, but I just remember that he was seen (by Canadagraphs, I think?) and he was in a SC with Echo.

BTW, I think the conversation with Oliver will be about him being sick. Didn't Calculator have some sort of illness in the comics? Oliver will be torn whether to tell Felicity.

[Password]

BTW, I think the conversation with Oliver will be about him being sick. Didn't Calculator have some sort of illness in the comics? Oliver will be torn whether to tell Felicity.

It might be exactly this, but I hope not. The Flash already had Iris' mom be terminally ill, why not have her dad just be shady/selfish? Whatever it is I hope it's good. But I do think it'll put Oliver in a lie to Felicity situation again.

[looptab]

Yeah, I agree the 'lie or not' will definitely be the issue, regardless on what about. :)

[bijoux]

I'm looking forward to watching TA and SA act opposite each other. I was disappointed we didn't get a scene in his first appearances.

 

I wasn't that disappointed, since it was imperative to me for Felicity to have scenes with him, but I am looking forward to this.

 

By the way, I think it's indicative that Felicity 1) knows where Oliver is (not that it's hard to guess), and 2) has called the team together. And relevant to nothing at all (apart from the part that I liked it enough to buy one in a similar shade), Felicity looks like she's wearing the blue blazer she wore in Unchained when Overwatch and the Calculator faced off.

[Belinea]

But man, what a set of in-laws these two have. I'm extra saddened that Moira and Robert are dead. Can you IMAGINE those family dinners?

 

I am somewhat upset that Donna and Moria never had the chance to meet. I would have loved to see Moira's face. 

 

I only hope that the talk Oliver has with Felicity's dad won't turn into the trope of "You are not what my daughter needs" because I feel as though Oliver had that talk with himself all throughout S3.

[DeadZeus]

Why does the news paper say "black canary breaks up gun ring" instead of "impersonator" or something... I mean, don't they know LL was BC and she is dead?

[bijoux]

I think the point is that they don't. It happened the same night that Laurel died and it apparently hadn't gone viral by that point.

[ComicFan777]

Remind me, did we have anything official about TA's return? Someone upthread mentioned WM saying something, but I just remember that he was seen (by Canadagraphs, I think?) and he was in a SC with Echo.

 

A article about MG/WM interview mentioned:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/arrow-season-4-spoilers-felicity-will-get-back-ollie-or-rejoin-team-arrow-canary-cry-527028

"Felicity’s father, Noah Kuttler (aka The Calculator), will reprise his role for a few episodes this season"

which linked to TVline:

http://tvline.com/2016/04/12/greys-anatomy-season-12-callie-arizona-spoilers/

"Everwood alum Tom Amandes will reprise his role as Noah Kuttler aka The Calculator in a couple episodes as Season 4 winds down"

Based on the new episode synopsis, we now know that he is at least going to be in episode 21 - yay!

 

[tv echo]

I don't remember - does Noah know that Oliver is the Green Arrow?  

 

I know that he knows Felicity is Overwatch, but I don't think it was ever said whether or not he knew the entire team's real identities.

Edited April 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I don't believe they have said wether or not he knows Olivers identity.

[wonderwall]

I think he knows Felicity works with the Green Arrow, but he doesn't know his identity. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

He's supposed to be a genius so he should be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize his future son-in-law is the green-hooded vigilante. But then again, Curtis Holt was deceived by Oliver's stubble and jawline so who knows, LOL!

 

Anyway, I'm so excited for episodes 20 and 21. This may be the first time this season I've actually been truly intrigued by the summaries. Aside from an Oliver/Noah scene/s, I wonder if we'll also get Donna/Noah and Felicity/Noah/Donna. I want my Smoaks!!! (BTW, it's never been mentioned on the show why they have different last names, right?)

[tv echo]

Was it ever said on the show that Noah and Donna got married, or whether they just lived together?

[way2interested]

He's supposed to be a genius so he should be able to put 2 and 2 together and realize his future son-in-law is the green-hooded vigilante. But then again, Curtis Holt was deceived by Oliver's stubble and jawline so who knows, LOL!

To be fair, he didn't really seem to care about Felicity until she showed him up and was Palmer Tech CEO, so I don't feel like he would care about his future son-in-law in general and kind of place Oliver out of his radar.  Plus, he wasn't even really concerned about Green Arrow when actually trying to take down the city and didn't even see Green Arrow at all, unlike Curtis who was in the city when Oliver made his GA speech, seen Oliver and Green Arrow up-close a few times, and knew that Felicity was engaged to Oliver and friends with Green Arrow. That being said, I'm totally going with that Noah's going to know Oliver is GA in 421 for some reason, as if maybe he did always know but now it would be convenient to use Team Arrow for some reason.

 

 

Was it ever said on the show that Noah and Donna got married, or whether they just lived together?

 

Idk, Donna called him her ex-husband I think in referring to him to Lance in 414. I just figured that they were married and once he left she and Felicity just kept Donna's last name afterwards.

[tv echo]

You're right - Donna called Noah her "ex-husband" so they were married:

[foreverevolving]

I always assumed Donna hyphenated hers and Felicity last names, but once the marriage was over she dropped Noah's name from both of their names.

[BkWurm1]

 

 

I only hope that the talk Oliver has with Felicity's dad won't turn into the trope of "You are not what my daughter needs" because I feel as though Oliver had that talk with himself all throughout S3.

I'm thinking rather than feeding Oliver a secret (which he would get no points for sharing since it would be about Felicity not something  Oliver related) or warning Olver off, Noah is going to say something that explains or underlines the Smoak women's firm stance on non forgiveness.  Maybe how Papa has taught them not to trust after being burned, something that makes Oliver see he's acted too much like her father.

[ComicFan777]

What if the Calculator blackmails Oliver to do something questionable for him after he helps Team Arrow or else he will release all the evidence he has on Felicity helping the Arrow to the authorities, which could put Felicity in prison for life.  Oliver isn't allowed to tell Felicity - he would want to comply in order to protect Felicity, but at the same time, he would also want to tell her.  Perfect opportunity for Oliver to show Felicity he has changed and they work together to deal with Noah.

[Password]

something that makes Oliver see he's acted too much like her father.

I felt like this especially after episode 14. Oliver treated Felicity very well during their relationship (bar being away from her when she was in hospital), but before that he was SUPER wishy washy with her.

If papa Smoak pointed out his own behaviour and Oliver saw a pattern and connected it to his I would be very impressed.

[BkWurm1]

What if the Calculator blackmails Oliver to do something questionable for him after he helps Team Arrow or else he will release all the evidence he has on Felicity helping the Arrow to the authorities, which could put Felicity in prison for life.  Oliver isn't allowed to tell Felicity - he would want to comply in order to protect Felicity, but at the same time, he would also want to tell her.  Perfect opportunity for Oliver to show Felicity he has changed and they work together to deal with Noah.

Anything is possible but it's harder for me to imagine Oliver thinking not telling Felicity her secrets could be exposed by her father is something he might think he's justified in going it alone on.  I want something somehow comparable to secret kid.  The huge secret that would absolutely impact Felicity's life if she was marrying Oliver but not something that on the face of it, directly involves stakes for her.  I want Oliver to share and turn to her for support because he wants to not because it really should be her decision if she's the one being threatened.  I want it to be something that his first instinct is to keep secret and handle with no one knowing and then go against that to show he has changed. 

[tv echo]

Jara Zeimer is still listed as "Daughter" on the IMDB page for 422, along with TA as Noah.  Also, remember that Jara had tweeted that she was working on the Arrow set while 422 was shooting.  That seems to support the theory that she plays Felicity's half-sister.  So maybe Noah tells Oliver in 421 and this story line carries over to 422. 

 

Then Jara's one-shot guest appearance and lack of name (or undisclosed name) could mean either that Oliver doesn't tell Felicity or that Felicity decides to stay away from her because of her vigilante lifestyle in order to protect her sister.

Edited April 24, 2016 by tv echo

[kismet]

Nothanks. I'm good with the zero scenes we got if that's the case...

  

I think she meant QL, not LL.

Thank u @starfish 35 I totally meant Quentin. Not LL. Personally I have not wanted to watch O/L share a scene alone since s1 & that's only cuz the void of chemistry could be explained for plot purposes.

But yes absolutely QL & OQ sharing living quarters for me would have been hysterical.

[Jessie2009]

Jara Zeimer is still listed as "Daughter" on the IMDB page for 422, along with TA as Noah. Also, remember that Jara had tweeted that she was working on the Arrow set while 422 was shooting. That seems to support the theory that she plays Felicity's half-sister. So maybe Noah tells Oliver in 421 and this story line carries over to 422.

Then Jara's one-shot guest appearance and lack of name (or undisclosed name) could mean either that Oliver doesn't tell Felicity or that Felicity decides to stay away from her because of her vigilante lifestyle in order to protect her sister.

She also later deleted that tweet. Idk if there are keeping her character a secret, whatever it is.

[ComicFan777]

Judging from the newspaper headlines in the BTS pics for the finale, DD's plan might involve nuking cities.  It is possible that Felicity might need Noah's help in stopping DD from nuking the place - maybe something similar to the undertaking where Noah has to hack into the controls while the team (including Felicity and Curtis) have to go out in the field to override any potential fail-safes in the nukes.

 

If Felicity does have a half-sister, Noah might ask Oliver to take Felicity's half-sister somewhere safe, but he requests that Oliver keep the fact that Noah has a second family and Felicity has a half-sister a secret because Noah is afraid this secret could affect Felicity's judgment at this crucial time or Noah just plain doesn't want Felicity to know. 

 

If Noah does have a second family and Felicity has a half-sister, then they really are setting this up to be very similar to Malcolm/Thea/Oliver and a villain dad that wavers between being a good or bad guy whenever the occasion calls for it.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Jara Zeimer is still listed as "Daughter" on the IMDB page for 422, along with TA as Noah.  Also, remember that Jara had tweeted that she was working on the Arrow set while 422 was shooting.  That seems to support the theory that she plays Felicity's half-sister.  So maybe Noah tells Oliver in 421 and this story line carries over to 422. 

 

Then Jara's one-shot guest appearance and lack of name (or undisclosed name) could mean either that Oliver doesn't tell Felicity or that Felicity decides to stay away from her because of her vigilante lifestyle in order to protect her sister.

 

Could it be that Jara Zeimer is actually playing a young Felicity in a flashback? I guess I'm not too thrilled with the idea of another sibling story line since Oliver/Thea and Andy/John already have that covered.

[looptab]

  

. Personally I have not wanted to watch O/L share a scene alone since s1 & that's only cuz the void of chemistry could be explained for plot purposes.

 

What do you mean?

 

I'm lost, who's this Jara Zeimer?