Spoiler Discussion Thread

[dtissagirl]

PLEASE please please let it be Laurel. Just because she's a lawyer. And then we'll understand why MG isn't one anymore.

[Morrigan2575]

PLEASE please please let it be Laurel. Just because she's a lawyer. And then we'll understand why MG isn't one anymore.

just had the same thought.  please let it be Laurel so I can point, laugh and mock the stupidity of having an actual lawyer make that statement.

[tv echo]

Another failed attempt at damage control.  I esp. 'love' MG's following response - so I guess it's okay to lie to Felicity as long as Oliver tells the truth to Baby Mama (a woman who's lied to him for 10 years)? [sarcasm]  Won't Oliver be lying to Felicity again and again every time he makes a secret trip to visit his son?  MG is clueless.

What do you think of the backlash?
I think I was surprised that there was so much of outcry over Oliver keeping the secret from Felicity for two reasons. First of all, Stephen Amell and I worked long and hard on what Oliver should say to Felicity because we didn’t want it to be an outright lie. [The old Oliver] would have given her a complete line of bulls--t, which he didn’t do. So I think that is a bit of progression in his regression. But, in his defense, the poor guy was given this unbelievable ultimatum by the mother of his child. Yes, you could argue that if Oliver told Felicity, how would Samantha know, but isn’t that still a form of him lying? He made the mother of his child a promise. People can and should debate whether the promise he made to Felicity to always be truthful trumps the promise he made to Samantha, but we the writers placed Oliver in an impossible position.

Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo

[Traveller]

I think it will be Felicity's mother. 

[Starfish35]

And again I feel like he's missing or deliberately ignoring the point, or one of them, which is that Samantha even making such a demand is a blatantly transparent and contrived excuse to create drama between Olicity in the first place.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Starfish35

[Chaser]

I'm thinking Donna or Lyla. Some one who has a mothers perspective.

[bijoux]

Laurel was my first thought as well.

[dtissagirl]

And again I feel like he's missing or deliberately ignoring the point, or one of them, which is that Samantha even making such a demand is a blatantly transparent and contrived excuse to create drama between Olicity in the first place.

 

The only rational conclusion I can come up with is that Guggenheim is actually as dumb -- if not more than -- as Oliver.

[EmeraldArcher]

Maybe, but not if it's Donna who finds out. She might be the ONLY character whose defense of Oliver "doing whatever it takes" to be in William's life, including abiding by BM's STUPID stipulation, might actually work with Felicity and the audience. Donna knows a lot about being a single mother and doing everything she could for Felicity's well-being (60 hours on 6-in heels), that her perspective might humanize BM and soften the blow of Oliver's lie.

I saw too much maturity, love, and respect in 409 to remain as certain as I was last week that this has turn out as STUPID as it looks. Really hope I'm not wrong (hope to the power of gazillion).

[Chaser]

I thought about Diggle, but I can't see him being okay with Oliver keeping this from Felicity. Of course that friendship is lacking so maybe. Laurel would be stupid. How would that look? Laurel telling Oliver he should keep this from Felicity. There is no way that wouldn't read wrong to the audience.

What if it's Felicitys father?

[apinknightmare]

If someone is going to find out and go to bat for Oliver's idiocy, I think it has to be a parent. Which parent on the show it is...IDK.

[Starfish35]

I'm going to go with Donna or Diggle. Diggle - it wouldn't be the first time Diggle has sided with Oliver against Felicity. And Diggle is a father, and may have the perspective of you do anything for your kid.

Donna - I can also see Donna trying to present Oliver's point of view to Felicity. If it's Donna, though, I would think there might not end up being a break up after all, because I think Donna would end up talking Felicity around.

Laurel....ah, just no. Besides the fact that she was the one involved with Oliver when Samantha got pregnant, 10Eleven12 is right that it would look terrible for her to be siding with Oliver against Felicity.

[apinknightmare]

I think Donna is the likely one.

[tv echo]

On injury location, this gif was in a media episode review - notice the ton of blood staining the right side of her jacket and right sleeve...

 

Edited December 10, 2015 by tv echo

[Carrie Ann]

Back to the MG interview, this cracked me up:

Also, there will be another character who finds out about the child and Samantha’s ultimatum, and they will make the argument that Oliver really didn’t have a choice but to honor that promise.

 

Ohhhh! So a fictional character whose actions and feelings you direct will have dialogue that you wrote that will back up another of your writing choices??? Well, then consider the case closed!

 

I mean, he really does sound here like he's saying that an objective third-party has passed judgment and found Oliver innocent. No. Look, I think this person can only be Donna or Dig, because no one else on this show can speak with integrity and/or authority on the notion of keeping secrets, especially w/r/t a child. And I'm open to that because I need to stay sympathetic to Oliver and I need whatever support and arguments are available to bring Felicity back around, too. But if MG thinks that because other characters may understand Oliver's choice, that makes it okay, he is quite wrong.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[lexicon]

HAHAHAHA THANKS GUGGENTROLL FOR RUINING MY MOOD. IT LASTED 12 HOURS.

 

Things about this interview had me RAGING :-

 

1. SOMEBODY ELSE FINDS OUT FIRST????- 

How? How in the ever loving hell does anyone else find out before Felicity? Does Oliver TELL THEM? That would be BS of the highest order, unless he confesses in a haze of grief after Felicity nearly dies. Then what does that person do? Counsel him to continue lying? Please don't let this be a thing where everybody else find out and she becomes the last to know because that would make an epically bad situation worse.

 

2. MG and Stephen thought long and hard about what to say huh and still they ended up with that BS last scene of 4.08? Yikes, what would they have done if they intended to be cavalier about it.

 

3. If the person that finds out and argues that Oliver had no choice is Donna then it's going to be because she was faced with some similar 'heart wrenching' decision as a parent i.e maybe Papa Smoak returned or wanted to be in contact with Felicity at one point and she prevented it from happening aka she understands the need to do anything for your child and so gets where Oliver is coming from. Mind you, that is a totally different scenario but I could see them trying to draw some parallels, in which case poor Felicity because then she'll have to deal with a lot of things at once: finding out both your fiance and mother have been lying to you, Papa Smoak's return and the physical repercussions of being shot (please, please, please not paralysis)

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how someone else finds out first. The only thing I can figure is that it's Donna and she gets the wrong idea about what he's doing (sneaking around, maybe? IDK) and he freaks out and tells her.

[Orion]

The problem with Felicity's injury is she was shot on the right side of her rib cage.

 

Bullets ricochet off of hard bone changing trajectory and velocity and/or ribs splinter and bone fragments can move throughout the chest cavity.  

 

So all injury locations are still on the table, unfortunately.

[dtissagirl]

My main problem here is whoever finds out and thinks Oliver is doing the right thing = the writing making another person as dumb as Oliver, because their first reaction isn't "Dude, Oliver, please talk to a lawyer asap."

[Carrie Ann]

MG and Stephen thought long and hard about what to say huh and still they ended up with that BS last scene of 4.08? Yikes, what would they have done if they intended to be cavalier about it.

 

Yeah, what are they even talking about here? He barely said anything, so that's what you spent so much time discussing? That he would say, "It doesn't matter because it's over now." Okay! I guess I would see the fact that he didn't come up with a ridiculous cover story as demonstrative of growth, except that he DID do that, in the first timeline--which was still OUR Oliver--so no points will be awarded.

[BkWurm1]

What do you think of the backlash?

I think I was surprised that there was so much of outcry over Oliver keeping the secret from Felicity for two reasons. First of all, Stephen Amell and I worked long and hard on what Oliver should say to Felicity because we didn’t want it to be an outright lie. [The old Oliver] would have given her a complete line of bulls--t, which he didn’t do. So I think that is a bit of progression in his regression. But, in his defense, the poor guy was given this unbelievable ultimatum by the mother of his child. Yes, you could argue that if Oliver told Felicity, how would Samantha know, but isn’t that still a form of him lying? He made the mother of his child a promise. People can and should debate whether the promise he made to Felicity to always be truthful trumps the promise he made to Samantha, but we the writers placed Oliver in an impossible position

 

What he insists on being clueless about is that Oliver lies every day of his life and the audience and TA are fine with it.  It is the CONTEXT of the lie and who he is lying to that makes this situation so ridiculous.  Felicity has earned the right never to be lied to.  BM has not.  Giving BM more right to Oliver's honesty than Felicity is insulting on every level.  And Oliver is only in an impossible position if he thinks Felicity and BM deserve the same level of trust.

Edited December 10, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Chaser]

Mixed messages here.

 

He talks about Oliver regressing. Regressing is bad, so Oliver is wrong. But they are going to have another character come in and say it's right?

[Carrie Ann]

Felicity has earned the right never to be lie to.  BM has not.  Giving BM more right to Oliver's honesty than Felicity is insulting on every level.  And Oliver is only in an impossible position if he thinks Felicity and BM deserve the same level of trust.

 

This is exactly it, thank you, bless you.

[Chaser]

In proving to BM he isn't that man, he is showing Felicity there is a part that still is.

[calliope1975]

HAHAHAHA THANKS GUGGENTROLL FOR RUINING MY MOOD. IT LASTED 12 HOURS.

 

No joke. Why can't MG go away. Focus on ruining LOT before it even premieres, dude. 

 

The only rational conclusion I can come up with is that Guggenheim is actually as dumb -- if not more than -- as Oliver.

 

 

2. MG and Stephen thought long and hard about what to say huh and still they ended up with that BS last scene of 4.08? Yikes, what would they have done if they intended to be cavalier about it.

 

That is sad that that dialogue was the best they could do. And now I'm placing all the blame for the boob cuddling on SA who didn't show a hint of remorse about lying. Oh, I'm sorry, about not really lying or whatever crap MG is trying to spin. I mean, I get it, yay boobs, but that was not the right reaction.

 

My main problem here is whoever finds out and thinks Oliver is doing the right thing = the writing making another person as dumb as Oliver, because their first reaction isn't "Dude, Oliver, please talk to a lawyer asap."

 

Exactly. This new person is just as wrong as Oliver and they can suck it, too.

 

Going to take another Forget Me Now pill and pretend I didn't read that interview. Or maybe I'll go stare at some gifs from Tumblr of last night. 

[catrox14]

I'm going with Malcolm as the person that finds out about the kid. IMO he would defend Oliver's choice because Malcolm is BSC and a lying liar that lies.

Mixed messages here.

 

He talks about Oliver regressing. Regressing is bad, so Oliver is wrong. But they are going to have another character come in and say it's right?

 

 

I think he meant that Oliver not outright lying to Felicity is progression from the Ollie that would straight up tell a bald faced lie. I don't think the person that comes in and says its right is necessarily correct because my candidate in that pool is Malcolm

[GirlvsTV]

I don't get how he didn't lie the second time? Didn't he say something like, 'It doesn't matter' (he has a kid obviously it matters) and 'It's over now' (totally not over, esp if he's going to keep visiting).

I'd look it up, but I don't want to put myself through rewatching that moment.

[Ann Mack]

  

 

I swear this was me after reading ALL the bullshit Marc was shoveling in his interview. One of my favorite lines of his was when he complained about fans ganging up on Oliver. Well hell they put him in a position to be called out with this "regression" story line oh excuse me according to Marc it wasn't "regression" until he says its "regression" in this interview to cover his and other writers asses. He even lit into people on Twitter the same night when they called it regression because they stated the obvious he had regressed Oliver for the sake of drama for drama ugh!!!! What a dumb fuck (excuse my language but Marc causes my etiquette to regress)

 

BTW Oliver DID try to tell Felicity a bullshit story about Damian Darhk being in Central City and Felicity pretty much told him to stop being a lying liar who lies and didn't give him a chance to spew any more lies her way. So just what the fuck is Marc talking about?

Edited December 10, 2015 by Ann Mack

[NumberCruncher]

MG is the worst version of a mansplainer to exist for A) equating Oliver breaking his no-kill rule in order to save someone else from being killed to the kiddie lie, and B) equating BM's right to keep a secret that literally makes no difference to anyone and Felicity's right to know that she'll become an instant step-mother if she marries Oliver. Seriously dude, if you think these two things are in any way okay then I truly question your intelligence.

Furthermore, I cannot believe that another person (besides Barry) finds out before Felicity does. And speaking of which, because Barry knows hasn't Oliver already violated the BM promise, thus rendering it completely useless? How come you didn't mention that, Marc? I'm also really annoyed that this new mystery person is actually going to try to convince Felicity that this is all okay. If I found out my boyfriend had a kid from someone else besides him I'd be PISSED.

Edited December 10, 2015 by NumberCruncher

[Password]

I was totally zen about the BM storyline and riding a MASSIVE episode 9 wave of beauty and then MARC SAYS THIS.

No words. None.

[lexicon]

What he insists on being clueless about is that Oliver lies every day of his life and the audience and TA are fine with it.  It is the CONTEXT of the lie and who he is lying to that makes this situation so ridiculous.  Felicity has earned the right never to be lied to.  BM has not.  Giving BM more right to Oliver's honesty than Felicity is insulting on every level.  And Oliver is only in an impossible position if he thinks Felicity and BM deserve the same level of trust.

 

Thank you thank you thank you. 

 

This is all that I am saying. 

[apinknightmare]

Maybe it's just a post-episode whatever I have going on, but that interview with MG doesn't upset me at all. This storyline is stupid, the non-outright lie or whatever they're trying to sell it as is stupid, and...eh.

[apinknightmare]

I don't get how he didn't lie the second time? Didn't he say something like, 'It doesn't matter' (he has a kid obviously it matters) and 'It's over now' (totally not over, esp if he's going to keep visiting).

 

He said "It doesn't matter, it's over, and I'm back in Star City with you." We'd have to know Oliver's intentions or hear a little more from him to know if this is an actual lie - from what we saw, as of now he wants to visit "every once in a while" and is under the impression from BM that William will never ever ever know that Oliver is his father. Oliver telling Felicity this wouldn't really bother me all that much if I didn't know that he intended on keeping the kid a secret because BM said so. Maybe it's not an outright lie, but he is misleading her, which is just as ick. 

[lexicon]

True talk, if I was Felicity Smoak and Oliver tried to convince me that he couldn't tell me the truth because he promised BM in other words, his promise to the lying liar who kept him from his son for years took precedence over his promise to me, his girlfriend, partner and best friend, not to keep anymore secrets, I'd bitchslap his ass so fast it wouldn't be funny. Then I'd kick him to the curb. 

 

It's basically him saying I weighed it and DECIDED my promise to you wasn't as important as my promise to her, if that doesn't signal trouble I don't know what does. 

 

The worst thing about all of this is you can see just how contrived it all is. In every other episode and every other interaction this season, you see just how important Felicity Smoak is to Oliver Queen, just how much he values her, just how much she means to him but they're willing to destroy all of that for some improperly conceived, badly explained angst. 

[Genki]

If they do a whole episode about truth I really hope that the writer is not MG. Will definitely require some nuance and subtly, especially if the are going to have another character before Felicity find out, to give Oliver a POV, which obviously MG doesn't have. After 4.09 I hope it's Wendy and one of the other stronger Olicity writers.

 

As for 4.13 being called "Sins o the Father" I wonder if this will focus a fair bit on DD's family as well as the Calculator being Felicity's father (Oliver's BM drama will be at the end of the episode), since MG waited until after 4.09 to reveal the name. 

 

Also this is totally random speculation, could the Campaign manager be Slade Wilson's son? I remember some spoiler somewhere about that character coming on the show, it would explain DD's weird reaction when he saw Thea and him and I assume DD helped Slade because he planned to destroy Starling City.

[statsgirl]

SA said something about there being another Wilson for Oliver to fight.  It could be his campaign manager. Or it could be his volleyball, you never can tell with this show.

 

Maybe, but not if it's Donna who finds out. She might be the ONLY character whose defense of Oliver "doing whatever it takes" to be in William's life, including abiding by BM's STUPID stipulation, might actually work with Felicity and the audience. Donna knows a lot about being a single mother and doing everything she could for Felicity's well-being (60 hours on 6-in heels), that her perspective might humanize BM and soften the blow of Oliver's lie.

 

We know that this show writes the ending and then plots backwards to get to it.  For some reason, they needed Oliver to be keeping the kid a secret, my guess is something to do with the reveals in ep 4x13. 

 

And maybe if it's Donna, Felicity won't break up with him.  It kind of fits, Felicity's father coming on and Donna there to give the flip side of it.

 

I think Diggle, with his love of Lyla, would be more likely to tell Oliver he has to tell Felicity.

 

 

"I think I was surprised that there was so much of outcry over Oliver keeping the secret from Felicity for two reasons. First of all, Stephen Amell and I worked long and hard on what Oliver should say to Felicity because we didn’t want it to be an outright lie. [The old Oliver] would have given her a complete line of bulls--t, which he didn’t do. So I think that is a bit of progression in his regression."

I actually feel kind of sorry for MG and SA here.  They tried, they really did. They just can't get the backlash right.

 

At least now they know there is potential backlash with these scenes (mostly around Felicity it seems). So that's progress.

[kes0704]

What do you think of the backlash?

I think I was surprised that there was so much of outcry over Oliver keeping the secret from Felicity...

Couple of things. MG, don't ruin the goodwill you clawed back from me and really, you're surprised by the backlash? Well, just add it to the incredibly long list of things from season 3 you completely misjudged audience reaction to.

What surprises me is how incredibly bad he continues to be at judging audience response to the more asinine parts of his plotting.

Stephen Amell and I worked long and hard on what Oliver should say to Felicity because we didn’t want it to be an outright lie. [The old Oliver] would have given her a complete line of bulls--t, which he didn’t do.

This bit explains why SA seemed less than thrilled about the audience response. He worked hard to find way to make the lying more palatable and people still hated it with a passion.

And, IMO, Oliver still gave Felicity a line of BS, it's just a matter of degrees in how you choose to view it. "It doesn't matter, it's over" is part of the ongoing lie because it's not over and it does matter.

Finally, he lied to the woman he loves, the one who lights his way, that he wants to marry all to keep a promise to a woman who lied to him for 10 years and gave every sign of continuing to do so had he not stumbled upon the truth. I'm sorry but in my mind there is no impossible choice to make...you tell the woman you love and get a good lawyer.

[calliope1975]

If they do a whole episode about truth I really hope that the writer is not MG. Will definitely require some nuance and subtly, especially if the are going to have another character before Felicity find out, to give Oliver a POV, which obviously MG doesn't have. After 4.09 I hope it's Wendy and one of the other stronger Olicity writers.

 

As for 4.13 being called "Sins o the Father" I wonder if this will focus a fair bit on DD's family as well as the Calculator being Felicity's father (Oliver's BM drama will be at the end of the episode), since MG waited until after 4.09 to reveal the name. 

 

Also this is totally random speculation, could the Campaign manager be Slade Wilson's son? I remember some spoiler somewhere about that character coming on the show, it would explain DD's weird reaction when he saw Thea and him and I assume DD helped Slade because he planned to destroy Starling City.

 

I want MG to keep his grubby hands off Arrow for the rest of the season. He is shocked and surprised by the backlash every time. Dude, catch a clue. And it's always plot points that, when we see the spoilers, can all predict won't be received well. This is not rocket science!

 

I wonder if they'll tie in Andy to the Sins of the Father stuff, since he seems like he doesn't remember or care that he has a son.

 

Alex has to be someone, I would think, I'm just not sure who. Of course, I thought Nicholas Lea was going to be more than a brief cameo, and I was wrong about that.

[Velocity23]

I want Ben and Wendy to write all the important episodes!

[Password]

And Antonio to direct!

[statsgirl]

Of course, I thought Nicholas Lea was going to be more than a brief cameo, and I was wrong about that.

We could write a whole thread on actors Arrow wasted:  Chris Heyerdahl, Jerri Ryan, ...

[Ann Mack]

OMG I just watched an episode review of Collider (can we name names here) recapping episode 4x09 and the upcoming 4x10 when it returns. All I can say is OMGoodness the lead moderator of the panel really believes its Felicity in the grave because that's what they showed in the promo for the upcoming episode. I actually use to like some of their recaps but I think its time to let go mainly because of her but also because the rest of the panel seemed to follow a similar pattern of thinking this and they threw in some actually a lot of fairly outrageous damn theories always too!

[way2interested]

OMG I just watched an episode review of Collider (can we name names here) recapping episode 4x09 and the upcoming 4x10 when it returns. All I can say is OMGoodness the lead moderator of the panel really believes its Felicity in the grave because that's what they showed in the promo for the upcoming episode. I actually use to like some of their recaps but I think its time to let go mainly because of her but also because the rest of the panel seemed to follow a similar pattern of thinking this and they threw in some actually a lot of fairly outrageous damn theories always too!

 

Yeah, Collider's recaps aren't my favorite after shows. I prefer the Afterbuzz and theStream in terms of recapping (they are at least generally positive with the show and make what I think are more tasteful jokes and commentary), but, in terms of actually predicting, none of the recaps shows really hit the mark as much as this forum, or even occasionally tumblr, I'm afraid. The Afterbuzz crew just found out that Tom Amandes was cast as the Calculator and immediately dismissed the idea of him being Felicity's father (to which I replied to myself, "Oh, boy,"). I chock it up to the fact that the reviewers typically record directly after watching the episode instead of having too much time to think over it, but even people here can sometimes predict almost the next 4-5 episodes depending on what happens during the actual episode.

 

However, an unexpected joy that I have found is reading the reviews and articles from people who genuinely believe that Felicity is going to die. It makes me try to think how the actual episode will go about showing Felicity's recovery. Like, how long will it take until she wakes up/is stated to make a recovery? What injuries does she have exactly? And if she doesn't make a joke that she spilled a latte on herself instead of really having bullet holes in her body to reassure Oliver that she's going to be fine, what was the actual point of her injury coming from bullets? 

[TwistedandBored]

I guess in a way Guggenheim did admit the backlash wasn't just from Olicity fans. He must have read all those episode reviews after all. HAHAHA

[kismet]

http://www.tvinsider.com/article/59110/arrow-fall-finale-marc-guggenheim-explains-olivers-actions/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=tvi

Quote from that article ~

 

 

"And secrets always come out on this show.

Also, there will be another character who finds out about the child and Samantha’s ultimatum, and they will make the argument that Oliver really didn’t have a choice but to honor that promise. We’re going to do a whole episode about the virtues of the truth…it’s not always the best thing. But that is this show. Killings, secret keeping, ethical dilemmas, broken promises. We deal with the moral grey."

So I have to catch up on the spoiler thread, but I wanted to say that I think it will be DONNA who will talk to FS about OQ not having a choice but to honor the promise he made to BM. I thought about it after last week & talked about it here before this article came out. But now I feel more confident in this decision.

Edited December 10, 2015 by kismet

[kismet]

Yeah, I'm actually expecting there to be multiple gun shot wounds. She looked pretty rough when Oliver pulled her out of the car.

 

But hey, Felicity's going to catch up to Oliver in the scar department. Okay, not really, but as some on Tumblr pointed out, it's a Queen family tradition at this point to have a death/near death experience. Welcome to the club, Mrs. Smoak-Queen. (Queen-Smoak?)

We at the board here totally called the bolded part long before tumblr :)

 

I'm guessing that she will have multiple wounds as well. I'm also guess that the show will not explicitly tell us where her injuries are. Just that she has "extensive abdominal injuries". Which I'll be fine with. Medical accuracy is barely possible on medical shows, I doubt they will care to be accurate about it here. What I do want them to do is be as accurate as possible, sensitive and respectful to the aftermath of whatever injury she sustains. I understand why medical inaccuracies occur on shows, but I hate when they just gloss over the realities of dealing with the severity of the injury. So if ARROW can be respectful of that part of the journey I will be more pleased that they brought this injury in for dramatic effect.

 

It is to be noted that bullets can move in the body, especially in the abdominal cavity, so wherever she was injured initially may not be where she has the most extensive injury.

 

Here is my speculation -

SPINAL CORD INJURY - If they go this route, I think it is likely that a bullet will be lodged in a precarious area making it very difficult for the surgeons to retrieve the bullet without causing more damage and permanent injury. Therefore the bullet will remain lodged and causing swelling which will cause the temporary paralysis. If they wanted to bring in PalmerTech, perhaps somebody in their medical division has been working on a surgical device that can retrieve the bullet safely. Or perhaps they call in a special surgeon from somewhere to do the surgery.

 

WHEELCHAIR - I have a feeling that they might have FS in the wc as she is healing from her internal injuries because the recovery period will be extensive and she will not have the endurance for her typical ADLs. This does not mean that she is necessarily paralyzed. Perhaps she is just severely deconditioned and needs a wheelchair to promote internal healing and not damage what the doctors did to fix the injuries.

[foreverevolving]

Never mind.. I was wrong.

Edited December 11, 2015 by foreverevolving

[GirlvsTV]

He said "It doesn't matter, it's over, and I'm back in Star City with you." We'd have to know Oliver's intentions or hear a little more from him to know if this is an actual lie - from what we saw, as of now he wants to visit "every once in a while" and is under the impression from BM that William will never ever ever know that Oliver is his father. Oliver telling Felicity this wouldn't really bother me all that much if I didn't know that he intended on keeping the kid a secret because BM said so. Maybe it's not an outright lie, but he is misleading her, which is just as ick.

It still reads as a lie to me. Especially him saying 'it's over' because it certainly is not and Oliver knows that.

I just wish they'd gone with Oliver being terrified of losing Felicity instead of stupid BM stuff. People do dumb, irrational things when they are afraid, so I would totally buy Oliver making bone-headed decisions because of that. I wouldn't have liked it at all and still would have been mad at him, but I would've understood why he was making stupid decisions.

Also, I hate the way Arrow tries to 'fix' or get around problematic character/story issues by having other characters tell the audience stuff instead putting in the work to SHOW us the resolutions. They do this A LOT with Laurel and it's such lazy writing that it always ticks me off. It sounds to me like they are going to do it again with the BM secret, which has me feeling pretty discouraged about where this storyline is going.

I'll forgive a lot of silly plot issues if I like where the writers are going with a character's development and story. Sadly, Arrow (or MG) seems to operate in the exact opposite way and expects viewers to forgive character inconsistencies to advance whatever plot they are trying to make happen.

[apinknightmare]

It still reads as a lie to me. Especially him saying 'it's over' because it certainly is not and Oliver knows that.

 

That's why I wrote that IMO I would've liked to see more from his POV to know what he was thinking. This might well not be a lie to him, because like I said - BM told him he could only be involved as "mommy's friend," and flat-out told Oliver William could never know Oliver was his dad. Taking that into consideration, it doesn't seem like a lie to me. But I'm not sure what he was thinking, so I can't say. 

 

 

I just wish they'd gone with Oliver being terrified of losing Felicity instead of stupid BM stuff. People do dumb, irrational things when they are afraid, so I would totally buy Oliver making bone-headed decisions because of that. I wouldn't have liked it at all and still would have been mad at him, but I would've understood why he was making stupid decisions.

 

Up until reading MG's interview today, I thought that was still a part of it. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the point of Barry telling Oliver that he and Felicity broke up in the original timeline was, if it wasn't to make Oliver feel compelled to go along with keeping the kid a secret. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by apinknightmare

[TVHappy9463]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. But since the show has gotten pretty soapy as of late.  Do you think it would be possible that one of Felicity's injuries will prevent her from having children.