Spoiler Discussion Thread

[DrSpaceman10]

When Malcolm is spending more time in the foundry than Felicity you know something's wrong.

[kismet]

Seriously. And now we know why "hospital sex" comes up. I want to vomit. 

Ill bet its Ray that says it too. Totally sounds like his lack of social boundaries & appropriateness cues. Seriously between that episode write-up preview and the bouquet comment for MG (actually most comments from MG) I've just lost my desire to watch the show without a handy puke bucket. Can we just get it over with and move on to next season please? I can't believe Im getting this negative visceral reaction to a show I used to look forward to watching.

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, the EPs have really screwed up Felicity's relationship with the team this season.  I don't understand their story choices at all.  I am still not watching until the last five minutes of 19, but there's nothing they can do at this late stage really to fix this season.  Even when she's in tight with TA again I'll always remember the fact that she was so uninvolved for months, which permanently cheapened their bond.  

[quarks]

So let's see if I've got this straight. Probably not:

 

March 17, Flash, episode 15, "Out of Time."

 

March 18, Arrow, episode 16, "The Offer."

 

These two episodes are apparently completely unrelated and shouldn't affect each other, so we're good. 

 

March 24, Flash, episode 16, "Rogue Time." Presumably Captain Cold shows up.

 

March 25, Arrow, episode 16, "Suicidal Tendencies."  Deadshot and Cupid will show up, which is necessary and good because Felicity is going to catch that damn bouquet leading to legions of panicked Olicity shippers assuming that Felicity will marry Ray at the end of the season. Cue several complaints on this forum about how this show keeps forgetting what made it good, and me almost certainly squawking about the sets again. Fun all around.  (Deadshot, save us.)

 

March 31, Flash, episode 17, "Tricksters," which will be THE MOST AWESOME EPISODE OF EITHER SHOW BAR NONE.  CALLING IT NOW. (please please please let there be a Jedi joke.) It will be so awesome nothing can ever top it and we should just stop watching, but since this is the Arrow forum....

 

April 1, Arrow, episode 18, "Public Enemy."  Ray, by something some of you will call "coincidence" and others "plot contrivance" and still others "stealing from comic book plots" and I will call "please at least consider asking OUAT if you can borrow one of their hospital sets," will end up in the exact same hospital room we have now seen Laurel, Quentin, Sara, Lyla and Eddie use. Sigh. Ray or Felicity will joke about hospital sex. Oliver will prove his heroics by trying to go after whoever got Ray, and Ra's will kidnap Quentin probably because he's equally frustrated with the Ray/Felicity storyline and wants the camera focused elsewhere.

 

It's also very possible that Ray dies at some point during this episode, just because two of the other characters in the spinoff have also already "died," allowing the spinoff to be, if not quite the Justice League, the Mostly But Not Really Dead League.  Also, "dying" makes Ray a bit closer to Iron Man. If he drinks a lot at the wedding, we know this

 

What's interesting is that this episode was originally supposed to follow Flash, episode 18, "All Star Team-Up," where S.T.A.R. Labs helps Ray build his suit. 

 

Depending upon whether or not Flash had the budget for editing/pick-ups, this means that either Ray/Felicity will be heading to Central City before the attack on Ray, meaning that viewers will go through the entire episode knowing that the suit upgrades aren't going to keep Ray out of the hospital so what, really, is the point, or Ray/Felicity will be heading to Central City after the attack on Ray - which is also after Oliver is going to be all heroic and hunt down Ray's attacker even though Ray is with the woman Oliver loves - and presumably Oliver and Laurel's focus on that hunt is partly how the LoA manages to kidnap Quentin. And how does Ray respond to all of that hard work and sacrifice? By heading off to Central City.  And having a double date with the woman Oliver loves.  And assuming the GreenArrowTV spoiler is correct, also after Mama Smoak says something anti-Raylicity.

 

On the episode both shows want to use to get viewers on board for the Ray spinoff.

 

Yikes.

 

No wonder the writer team announced that the scheduling was entirely a CW thing.  In their position, I think I'd either try to stick with the original timeline - just make sure that some sort of dates are up on the Flash episode to make sure that viewers get that it's happening prior to the Arrow episode, or even have some sort of "This episode happens before last week's episode of Arrow voiceover at the beginning," or, give up and just let Ray go evil, and try to redeem himself on the spinoff show. I mean, the only reasons I'm not classifying Ray as a bad guy are because Oliver was a serial killer in the first season and everyone keeps telling me that Ray is a hero in the comics. On the show, he's done a lot more questionable things than Eddie has - and Eddie's a villain in the comics. 

 

I admit: I am wondering how this will work.

[calliope1975]

I don't know if TIIC's desire was for me to be glad that Ray is hurt so badly he has to go to the hospital, but here we are. What a fail of a character. Why couldn't he get the 9 month Barry coma? 

[Chaser]

Uninvolved and Uninivited (queue Alanis). It was like Oliver/Diggle and then Felicity. All these big conversations between Oliver and Diggle and she was left in the cold. Let's have the LOA and Malcolm return…and send Felicity to CC. Oliver and Diggle talk about Nanda …… and Felicity is asked to leave the room so they can discuss. Oliver and Diggle have a heart to heart in Nanda…..while Felicity is in SC. Diggle goes to talk to Felicity….let's talk about Oliver and how your actions hurt him. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[NumberCruncher]

Given these latest spoilers, I'm just sitting here laughing at MG's comment suggesting that we'll have a whole new appreciation for S3 once it's wrapped up.  Does he really think that crap episodes pervading the majority of the season will somehow be forgotten because the last 4 or 5 episodes are decent?  I don't think I'll be thanking him for turning Felicity into the doting girlfriend at Ray's bedside while Oliver, Laurel and Roy (Diggle will be stuck back in the lair on comms) are tracking the criminals behind the attack.  I know MG insists that Felicity has become empowered by her new relationship, but I've yet to see the receipts.

[statsgirl]

I think MG is really counting too much on us loving the last few episodes after he's giving us all this crap for most of the season.  I wonder how many people will be left to see the 'amazing' finale.

 

I don't know if TIIC's desire was for me to be glad that Ray is hurt so badly he has to go to the hospital, but here we are. What a fail of a character. Why couldn't he get the 9 month Barry coma? 

Because then we'd be seeing Felicity at Ray's bedside for 9 months.  And I really don't want to see that.

 

Knowing that Ray will be off the show next season makes is easier to have him on, although I still don't like what Raylicity is doing to Felicity. But Laurel, she'll still be around and in the lair.

[kismet]

So I've been thinking about the JB interview. And I don't think I would mind having the MM of s1&2 stick around a few more seasons. Its not his fault that MM has gone so awry this season. They took his character from being an amazing villain that you loved to hate to this awful father who then fell apart in the last episode. I don't think the writers had a good plan or plot for him this season. I think his whole entire s3 arc has been a waste of time that has brought every character down including his own. Its just a poorly executed arc, unless of course the writers will wow us in the final episodes that we forget how stupidly planned & executed his arc was this year. But I doubt, they will wow us so much that I will forgive them for making OQ & MM drop in intelligence points just to fulfill their great plot. Even if MM's big plan was to be the next Ra's, do I really think this is how he would go about it? This guy planned the undertaking, he's got some mad skills in the planning & contingency planning depts. Drugging his daughter to kill Sara to get OQ (an archer) to have hand to hand combat with Ras to then miraculously remove the blood debt & jump over Nyssa's claim to the throne? I mean there had to have been another way. There is just nothing about this plan that seems to have MM signature on it. And don't even get me started on the stupidity that they wanted me to believe during the Brick arc, that somehow it all would have been different if he had killed the right man the first time? That's so pathetic, I sincerely hope that is not how they plan on writing redemption arcs, cuz its now even believable nevermind good. So I guess I can say that I am skeptically optimistic that if JB & MM stick around for additional seasons (which I do believe will happen), they somehow manage to get the magician back his mojo and actually write him some plotline that he can sink his teeth into.

Edited March 12, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

The problem with both the MM and Ra's storylines this year is that instead of being shocked at what MM, Oliver and Ra's do, I'm left wondering how they could be so stupid?  How could MM be so stupid as to pit Oliver against Ra's and think he could win?  How could Oliver be so stupid as to keep thinking  he needs to save MM, and needs to learn from him how to defeat Ra's?  How could Ra's be so stupid as to bypass Nyssa and give the heirship to a guy who couldn't keep his inherited company together, can't fight as well as he can, knows nothing of the LoA and believes in not killing.  This isn't the stuff of which suspense is made.

 

It's possible that MG has something brilliant up his sleeve that will make sense of all this, but it's hard to believe it at this point when it just keeps getting stupider (e.g. Ra's kidnapping Quentin).

[kismet]

Maybe there's gonna be some type of epic game-changing Father-Daughter dance going on in Nanda Parbat (or Verdant) that Quentin just needs to get in on since Nyssa & Laurel have some free time to bond as well... Malcolm & Thea will join in of course. Diggle & Lil Sara are gonna be so jealous if they don't get to go even though they're technically supposed to be against LoA, its a dance how bad can it be? I mean they'll have to find a new DJ, but I'm sure that can be arranged. Maybe the hip-hop group Public Enemy is gonna emcee the whole thing. It's gonna be great. It has been a long time since there was dancing on Arrow.

 

Edited - Because I want to emphasize that this is for humor reasons. I sincerely do not believe that a father-daughter dance will happen. Although with the rate of stupidity this show has sun to, u never know, at least it might be entertaining. Seriously, though the only reason I can imagine Ras would take or release QL is something to do with his daughters.

Edited March 12, 2015 by kismet

[calliope1975]

 Maybe the hip-hop group Public Enemy is gonna emcee the whole thing. It's gonna be great. 

 

Heh. If Chuck D. showed up on this show, I'd forgive everything I hate about this season. Add in Flavor Flav and I'll buy the Blu-Ray for all of my friends.

[Belinea]

So will it take Ra's al Ghul to get Quentin to see who the Arrow is? And I am actively blocking out the rest of the episode. How MG think Olicity fans won't dislike this one is beyond me. I already dislike it and that comes from just reading the description. This is probably also one of the episodes where Felicity is not in love with Oliver. Thank God she is so indecisive otherwise I might actually think she is struggling. This is not doing Felicity any favors. Any I seriously doubt she loves Oliver at all. I am not sure where MG sees that. And someone should really tell him that a journey is about the ride  as well and not just the destination. 

Maybe the game changer after this episode is that everything starts to turn around for the better. Now that would be an epic game changer. 

 

But I do think that excluding Felicity and including Laurel has to be done on purpose. That was one of the things they considered as a reason why people had a hard time with Laurel because she wasn't in. No she is in (more then anyone wants her to) and Felicity has the outsider storyline that irritates people. I still don't Laurel but I also don't love Felicity as much as I used to. 

[jay741982]

MG I don't fucking want to see Felicity Regulated to doting over Douche ass face Ray in episode 18. It fucking sucks that I have to cringe in felicity scenes cause she is gonna be worrying about her stalker boyfriend who is just so Cool and awesome so much better than Oliver(GAG) while youre favorite Laurel gets to fight alongside Roy and Oliver while Diggle sits in the van or in the Foundry cause Laurel is so awesome too!! You are a asshole MG

[Morrigan2575]

I admit: I am wondering how this will work.

AJK said they found out about the schedule change and had to tweak the Flash script a bit to line up. Sounds like they were notified prior to filming so there should be no issue, chronologically 118 takes place after 318.

[looptab]

KC posted a pic of EBR on set, so I'd say she's back on set.

[tv echo]

My guess is that - just like season 2 ended up with Felicity having a 'big damn hero' moment - this season Laurel will have a 'big damn hero' moment because the EPs are really propping her up as the BC this season.  

 

I also think that the EPs have realized it was a mistake to make Laurel a lawyer in the first place.  Being a lawyer isn't exactly the best back story for a superhero (unless you're Matt Murdock who started martial arts training as a child and grew up in Hell's Kitchen).  Imagine if Rachel Dawes had put on a mask and starting going out as a vigilante at night - Batman Begins would've turned pretty quickly into a comedy.

 

So maybe Laurel helps Oliver illegally and is (finally) disbarred.  This would leave her free of her inconvenient lawyer oath and hypocritical ADA job.   And the sooner she can leave her law career behind in the rear view mirror, the better.

 

“Felicity’s mom is back in the April 1 episode of Arrow, and Raylicity-haters will probably be happy with her reason for coming to town.” - GATV

I don't know if this changes anything for anyone. But I'm still pissed that Felicity will probably be sidelined because of f*cking Ray. I WANT HIS NONENTITY ASS OUT OF THIS SHOW NOW. 

I know!  We find out that Ray is Donna's illegitimate son - so that instead of pseudo incest, we now have real incest on this now ridiculous show.

Edited March 12, 2015 by tv echo

[Password]

So maybe Laurel helps Oliver illegally and is (finally) disbarred. This would leave her free of her inconvenient lawyer oath and hypocritical ADA job. And the sooner she can leave her law career behind in the rear view mirror, the better.

I agree, if anything Laurel needs to ditch her day job because it interferes with...no wait it doesn't. It so doesn't interfere because everything Laurel is doing, she should not be able to do.

The more I hear about Ray the sicker I get. I'm bitter for days.

[formerlyfreedom]

Okay, we're starting to hear from fellow posters about repetition in here - what does that mean, you ask? STOP repeating your sentiments. If you have already said you aren't happy with the way the wind blows, don't say it again. It will be deleted without warning going forward.

 

Another note: we are getting some feedback about posts outside Spoiler Discussion, with one referencing 'a death' on the show. There have been NO CONFIRMED spoilers of who dies: this is speculation based on a lot of vague and possibly misleading information coming from the show and cast/crew. Please watch yourself when posting outside the Spoiler topic, and remember that the death of specific characters is SPECULATION. Not saying it won't happen, but please stop treating it as fact until there is actual confirmation.

 

Finally; we GET it. A lot of folks don't like Ray. That is your prerogative, however, this is getting a little too heated. Give it a rest. We don't want to have to add a NO BASHING RAY policy to the forum, but we will if this continues.

Edited March 12, 2015 by stacey

[dtissagirl]

Sorry, but Guggenheim tweeted someone will die in 319, didn't he? Isn't that confirmation that a death is happening? What we don't know is 1. who and 2. if it'll stick.

[formerlyfreedom]

Sorry, but Guggenheim tweeted someone will die in 319, didn't he? Isn't that confirmation that a death is happening? What we don't know is 1. who and 2. if it'll stick.

 

Thanks, this is true; but please keep in mind it could be anyone, and you still need to watch about what you post outside of here. Not everyone reads his tweets, and some folks don't follow spoilers.

[wonderwall]

MY bad. I inadvertently put a spoiler in another post without blocking it out. I thoroughly apologize. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

I'm getting a little confused myself. Since there are tweets actually posted by the cast and production, are those not fair game for discussion in the tweets thread? Same with stuff that MG or whomever from the show puts out on tumblr.  I thought once it's discussed openly by the cast and crew it's not necessarily a spoiler. 

 

Just looking for clarification

Edited March 12, 2015 by catrox14

[tv echo]

Here's my understanding:

 

• Spoilers - things that will happen in future episodes or future seasons of the show, but haven't actually aired yet (includes info and clues posted by the CW and the EPs, such as MG, and by cast members, or by legitimate sources like EW or TVLine, as well as video previews, b-t-s pics, promo pics, and media interviews about future stuff).
• Not Spoilers - things that happened on already-aired episodes.

 

That's why I've been dividing up MG tumblr responses among the different threads (some are spoilery, some are not, some have to do with production, etc.).  

 

I believe we can speculate about everything having to do with spoilers in this thread, as long as we don't become too repetitive.  But we can't mention spoilers in other threads (unless we use spoiler tags).

Edited March 12, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

She said to watch what you post outside of this thread. I've seen some spoiler talk in the Behind the Scenes thread. I think that is more what she meant. 

[catrox14]

Thanks TV Echo!

[CabotCove]

Finally; we GET it. A lot of folks don't like Ray. That is your prerogative, however, this is getting a little too heated. Give it a rest. We don't want to have to add a NO BASHING RAY policy to the forum, but we will if this continues.

 

Thumbing up to this, Thank you. Its already bad enough with extreme and repetitive Laurel bashing, as it is on this whole sub-forum.  Its becoming very unpleasant and unwelcoming. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by Conell

[wonderwall]

She said to watch what you post outside of this thread. I've seen some spoiler talk in the Behind the Scenes thread. I think that is more what she meant. 

Yeah I made that post sort of without thinking :/ My bad! 

[Carrie Ann]

As far as the episode description for 318 goes, I'm not at all surprised that it's Ray in the hospital. I was basically down to three options: him, minor injury to Felicity, or minor injury to Mama Smoak. I also suspect that Donna doesn't rush to her daughter's side to support her during this major crisis of her boyfriend of four weeks being in the hospital. I would bet that she was either already planning to come, and the timing worked out like this, or Felicity seems stressed on the phone and she just decides to come. (And yes, in that second option, why didn't that happen when Oliver died? I don't know, but whatev.)

 

On the negative side, I would say that that line from whatever site about 318 making anti-Raylicity people happy was probably just because he's critically injured. If they had info beyond that, I think they would call it out more strongly.

 

On the positive side, I remember CR tweeting heart-eyes emojis* when she said she was reading the script for the episode. Ain't no one trying to sell Raylicity as a great love story, and we are getting too far into the season for the tide to not start turning. I would say that there will probably be some moments of doubt for Felicity here, at the very least. (*Heart-eyes emojis are pretty much how I feel every time I think about Mama Smoak, so I remember this tweet fondly.)

 

Okay on the other positive side: JB's photo of SA, DR, and EBR on set makes me feel like they will all be in a scene together in 320. Yay! I will take the victories where I can get them.

[catrox14]

I'm so darn skeptical that even set pics with all three I think oh...it's probably a flashback.

[apinknightmare]

I'm so darn skeptical that even set pics with all three I think oh...it's probably a flashback.

KC was there (she posted a pic of EBR) with JB too, so it's probably a "new" team Arrow activity in present day.

Edited March 12, 2015 by apinknightmare

[catrox14]

KC was there (she posted a pic of EBR) with JB too, so it's probably a "new" team Arrow activity in present day.

That doesn't make me feel better lol.

[looptab]

 I would say that that line from whatever site about 318 making anti-Raylicity people happy was probably just because he's critically injured. If they had info beyond that, I think they would call it out more strongly.

That's how I read that, too. It seems unlikely they'd know something beside what's in the ep description.

[AyChihuahua]

How are they going to play him being "critically injured" in this episode and then going to dinner in CC a week later? I doubt it's actually "critical," in real medical terms.

[Kordi]

Regarding the Canadian Promo (for 3x16): There Oliver says something like "There is more than one path to justice". I suppose he is talking about the two "options" he has after receiving Ra´s offer: being the Arrow (following a no-killing-rule) or being Ra´s Ollie Ghul (replacing evil with death). If he really considers the second path (and therefore, giving up on his no killing idea) to be a viable option, doesn´t that mean that we are basically back to Oliver´s vigilante policy of S1? Back then he definitely DID "replace evil with death". I have a hard time swallowing this development:

 

Up until now there was virtually nothing in S3 that would give Oliver any reason to give up an ideal that he´s cherished for so long now. On the contrary, he´s always seemed to be eager to defend that ideal (his protection of Malcolm in 3x04, his reluctance to kill Slade in 3x14, his care for "Thea´s soul" in 3x15). That means that something is going to happen in 3x16 that will totally change Oliver´s mind. Now I have to wait until I see it all on screen, but my fear is that it will be something entirely contrieved (for plot purposes). After everything Oliver has gone through during the last 2 1/2 years in Starling City I cannot imagine anything that would turn him into a vigilante/ "The Hood" again. Well, except his growing stupidity...

 

If Oliver really went back to taking killing as a regular justified means to "justice" (I´m not talking about exceptions in extreme situations like the Count kidnapping Felicity) than this would be an unbearable character regression IMO. It would feel like a repetition of S1 that is done for no other reason than protracting the series.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Kordi

[quarks]

AJK said they found out about the schedule change and had to tweak the Flash script a bit to line up. Sounds like they were notified prior to filming so there should be no issue, chronologically 118 takes place after 318.

 

To be clear, the main issue that I'm wondering about is is how this will fit in with trying to sell Ray for the spinoff. I'm a major Victor Garber fan, I loved Captain Cold over on Flash, and I'm interested in seeing what Caity Lotz will do on a show where she won't be in the way of the ostensible lead and the up and coming love interest.  I don't think I'm alone in this.  

 

But it seems as if the spinoff is going to sink or swim based largely on whether or not Arrow/Flash can change the viewer reaction to Brandon Routh/Ray from "meh" to "yay".  (And yeah, outside of this forum, the response largely seems to be "meh," not hate.) Flash has a better chance of doing this going forward - it's a more popular show, and at least in theory, Ray should fit in better with Team Flash than with Team Arrow.  And if they were able to tweak the script in time, then they have a pretty good reason for Ray to head over to Central City - he just got injured and he needs to improve the suit.  

 

But this still leaves both shows with the problem that they will be trying to sell Ray to viewers post an episode where Oliver will be spending his time trying to save Ray, only to see Ray waltz off to Central City with Oliver's girl a few days later.  That doesn't sound like a selling point to me. Not to mention the problem that Ray still hasn't done anything heroic up to this point. Going forward, Ray's not in episode 16, won't have time to do anything heroic in episode 17 since that's the Suicide Squad/Diggle centric episode, and will be in the hospital in episode 18. It's a repeat of the exact same problem that Arrow has had with Laurel: a hero's journey where the hero doesn't have any heroic moments.

 

Ray's heroic moments will presumably come in episode 19 - right after "All Star Team-Up," and in an episode where he and Felicity will probably break up, garnering viewer sympathy.  So it might work. Or not.

 

Sidenote: The CW_Arrow Twitter account has 558,000 followers. The CW_TheFlash account has 325,000 followers.

 

TheAtomCW Twitter account has 340 followers.

[catrox14]

Crack theory of the day: Oliver is still on that mountain, dying, or he's still being tended to by Tatsu and everything that's happened is him thinking or hallucinating how it would be without him and him thinking that Ra's way is the answer.

Edited March 12, 2015 by catrox14

[Kordi]

Crack theory of the day: Oliver is still on that mountain, dying, or he's still being tended to by Tatsu and everything that's happened is him thinking or hallucinating how it would be without him and him thinking that Ra's way is the answer.

I only wish this were true...

[looptab]

 

TheAtomCW Twitter account has 340 followers.

I believe that's not an official account. I think it may be run by the same people who run the twitter handle brandonrouth.com (or something-I don't remember the exact name).

 

To get back on topic, what's really worrying me about the promo for ep 16 is the line "I don't know why I'm doing this anymore". Is it in a "why do I even bother trying to save this city" sense, or in a "I don't know my true motivations anymore, am I doing it because I am altruistic and want to save people or because I am a selfish ass and want the city to worship me" sense?

[apinknightmare]

Going forward, Ray's not in episode 16, won't have time to do anything heroic in episode 17 since that's the Suicide Squad/Diggle centric episode, and will be in the hospital in episode 18. It's a repeat of the exact same problem that Arrow has had with Laurel: a hero's journey where the hero doesn't have any heroic moments.

Either MG or SA (I can't remember who - I *think* it was SA) said that 3x17 is half Suicide Squad, half Arrow vs. Atom with Felicity stuck in the middle, because they're clashing on how to deal with a villain. If I had to take a guess, judging on how things have been going for Oliver thus far this season, I'd say Ray's "heroic" moment might come in that episode, because I'd be willing to bet that he'll come out on the "right" side of whatever that issue is.

[Kordi]

I have two more questions about the Canadian Promo:

(i) Has anybody understood the second thing that is said there? First, it's Oliver's "I don't know why I am doing this anymore." Then comes something like "The Arrow is...[?]". But I couldn´t understand it.

(ii) Regarding Oliver's "I don't know why I am doing this anymore.": I suppose "this" refers to "being the Arrow [instead of Ra's Ollie Ghul]". Why doesn't he know the reason for doing this anymore? Because he feels that he is no longer needed? Because he feels abandoned by his friends?

[lizonthefritz]

I have two more questions about the Canadian Promo:

(i) Has anybody understood the second thing that is said there? First, it's Oliver's "I don't know why I am doing this anymore." Then comes something like "The Arrow is...[?]". But I couldn´t understand it.

 

He says "The Arrow isn't enough."

 

Don't know if that's supposed to be a personal observation ("being the Arrow isn't enough for me") or a general one ("the Arrow isn't enough to protect this city").

[Sakura12]

"The Arrow isn't enough"

 

Maybe Oliver just needs to add the color of his costume to his name? That way he can really be a comic book hero since that's all that matters for the rest of idiots that put on a costume. 

 

He can add it his speech in the beginning. "I must become something else, someone else. I'm not the Arrow. I'm the GREEN Arrow"

 

Crisis of faith finished because of a color. 

Edited March 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[Kordi]

To get back on topic, what's really worrying me about the promo for ep 16 is the line "I don't know why I'm doing this anymore". Is it in a "why do I even bother trying to save this city" sense, or in a "I don't know my true motivations anymore, am I doing it because I am altruistic and want to save people or because I am a selfish ass and want the city to worship me" sense?

I share your worries. Two speculations come to my mind. The phrase could mean something like: "I don't know anymore why I'm trying to save the city, because there are enough other heros that can do the job efficiently, so I'm no longer needed in Starling City." Alternatively, Oliver could be saying: "I don't know anymore why I'm following the no-killing rule, because it's an unrealistic ideal/ adhering to it has unacceptable consecuences."

[AyChihuahua]

So basically Oliver has become Debbie Downer. Fun.

[foreverevolving]

I feel like it has more to do with losing sight..

Barry told Oliver that he needs Oliver Queen too. in fact this entire season has been about.. identity. In the end of season 2 Oliver embraced both sides of himself and then when season 3 began he has been slowly letting go again of the Oliver Queen side of him. based on things the actors has been saying - SA especially-  I think Oliver is at a point where he shed so much of Oliver Queen that he feels lost, because there is no balance between the two, he is slowly drowning back into the darkness that is The Hood, that's why Ra's offer seems tempting. Plus it's for control, The Arrow represent Control to Oliver it's his way of retaining some control of things, but.. through the season we notice that The Arrow is slowly losing grasp of things, mainly parts of his humanity (and Oliver's humanity? that's Felicity..).

Everything that has happened with Malcolm and Ra's? Oliver has no control over, and I think he finally realized it after the fight with Ra's, and it is making The Arrow petrified- because if the Arrow loses control than what else is left?..

Edited March 12, 2015 by foreverevolving

[Kordi]

Oliver (in the 3x16 promo)"I don't know why I'm doing this anymore".

Yet another interpretation:

"I don't know why I'm limiting myself to be The Arrow. Now, with the arrival of the new villain Murmur, The Arrow is not enough anymore in order to save Starling City. To do this, I must become someone else. I must become.. something else. Something bigger, stronger, more powerful: Ra's Ollie Ghul."

[AyChihuahua]

Putting this here because it's spec about the upcoming death:

http://www.pajiba.com/trade_news/it-looks-like-your-second-least-favorite-arrow-character-may-be-leaving.php

Also, the author mentions that he's so bored with the show now that he's three episodes behind. Hopefully apathy is finally settling in and ratings go down! (First time I have ever hoped for that with a show I loved.)

[catrox14]

Okay that new pic of the Arrow is frakking hot. 

[Morrigan2575]

Looks like shit to me but I don't find him that hot.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Morrigan2575