Nagevs February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I think he doesn't want people to be happy about this storyline. If you make people dread it maybe they will give up and you will have finally managed to run something the audience loved into the ground and they will let it go. I've felt this all along, MG is just toying with fans of Felicity and Oliver he has no intention of ever doing anything meaningful with them. This season he has made Laurel Black Canary, next season I'm sure she'll return to being Oliver's love interest. Felicity will be stuck with Ray. Correction: in love with Ray. 2 Link to comment
statsgirl February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 This season hopefully has a point because at the moment it is just so messy. Why does everyone have to be a hero right away? Why are there so many storylines that don't mix properly. And why is there so much pointless drama. Couldn't they have just left the love triangle out of it? Couldn't it have been just Ray and Oliver without Felicity in the middle because it will probably make Oliver (intentionally by the writers) look bad, Felicity look bad (unintentionally) and Ray look good (because you have to like him, that's why) The show burns through storylines so fast, it's like they think if it lingers it's going to flat. It really hurts the show. I would like Ray so much more if I didn't have the dread of Raylicity hanging over me. As it is, in their scenes I put my hands over my eyes and wince. What I'm thinking is in the last few episodes she will realize she is projecting her feelings for Oliver onto Ray her and Oliver will FINALLY talk it out and get together. Ray CAN be in season 4 and not be dating Felicity I'd love it if that happened. It might actually save Ray for me. But I think it's way too mature and adult for this show. 4 Link to comment
Kymmi February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 On another note: MG says Felicity is in love with Oliver. Maybe it is just me but at the moment I don't really see that. At one point I'd have said she probably is but after all this time, I'd like her to voice how she feels because that might put the whole Ray thing into perspective for me. Yes - but that would require Felicity to have a conversation, a real one, with someone about her feelings. Who does she have? Her interactions with Diggle this season have been minimal, and he's already played relationship counselor. Roy? Don't see it. Laurel? LOL Ray? Even more LOL. Felicity doesn't have any friends, or life outside of Oliver or Ray. That's what was so refreshing in Flarrow, she had a friend. My only hope on getting actual insight into her feelings is when Donna is in town. There was some sort of spoiler that Donna would notice (?) Felicity's feelings for Oliver. How we're going to accomplish this in a hospital room, I don't know. 7 Link to comment
jay741982 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I've felt this all along, MG is just toying with fans of Felicity and Oliver he has no intention of ever doing anything meaningful with them. This season he has made Laurel Black Canary, next season I'm sure she'll return to being Oliver's love interest. Felicity will be stuck with Ray. Correction: in love with Ray. He wants to kill the show and drive away more fans by sticking Oliver with someone toxic while ignoring what made the show work and sticking Felicity with someone not real Popular than he's a Piece of crap writer for sure Felicity is the best thing for Oliver except for the people who want the shitty Laurvier cause Comics which is stupid cause the relationship is Toxic in comic history. I don't understand why you would destroy a show that was working. I don't understand why GB is letting MG a Laurel Stan destroy the show. He mocks the growing number of fans who are upset with this show. I love Olicity but this relentless depression isn't the only thing wrong with the show. We did not need Oliver and Felicity tense with each other. Oliver and Laurel have been written as Toxic period UGH I can't stand MG Link to comment
jay741982 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I wonder if this means Ray always takes a vote on how he should proceed as a hero, uses a soft, melodic tone of voice, and gently incapacitates criminals. Eh, let's be real, he Crazy Eyes them into submission. And it sounds like what Felicity does with that info is ask Ray to be her +1. Meanwhile, Oliver will be sad. What have I done to deserve this? A lot of us have wondered the same thing. Two unpopular characters being Propped. The three most popular aren't even close as they were last season Felicity arguably the most popular character being used to Prop unpopular characters which is angering fans and causing Felicity to be diminished. MG needs to be fired or AK or GB come back and help right this wrong Link to comment
Nagevs February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) He wants to kill the show and drive away more fans by sticking Oliver with someone toxic while ignoring what made the show work and sticking Felicity with someone not real Popular than he's a Piece of crap writer for sure Felicity is the best thing for Oliver except for the people who want the shitty Laurvier cause Comics which is stupid cause the relationship is Toxic in comic history. I don't understand why you would destroy a show that was working. I don't understand why GB is letting MG a Laurel Stan destroy the show. He mocks the growing number of fans who are upset with this show. I love Olicity but this relentless depression isn't the only thing wrong with the show. We did not need Oliver and Felicity tense with each other. Oliver and Laurel have been written as Toxic period UGH I can't stand MG Ratings are good and he thinks he's invincible. I just hope in his case pride comes before a fall. Edited February 13, 2015 by nagevs85 Link to comment
tessaray February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) I've felt this all along, MG is just toying with fans of Felicity and Oliver he has no intention of ever doing anything meaningful with them. This season he has made Laurel Black Canary, next season I'm sure she'll return to being Oliver's love interest. Felicity will be stuck with Ray. Correction: in love with Ray. Once it was clear that Sara's Canary was going to be sacrificed to make Laurel BC, I was pretty sure that Olicity, if not Felicity herself, was doomed. Maybe not this season but eventually Oliver has to have a reason to be with Laurel again. Because comics. I hate that phrase anymore, I really do. None of the spoilers I've seen give me any reason to think they ever plan on following through with O/F in any meaningful way. (I agree, meaningful is really the key word. What's the tv equivalent of click-bait? Whatever it is, Olicity is probably listed as an alternate definition.) Edited February 13, 2015 by tessaray Link to comment
Angel12d February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Haha, I must be really immature because if they're purposefully trying to run Olicity into the ground in the hopes that people will give up on them (not saying that's happening, but hypothetically), I will only ship them harder, probably a bit out of spite and also because I know they can be great together. Sorry! Sigh. We knew Raylicity would be happening, I guess I'm just annoyed at the way it's happening. If Ray wasn't so creepy and questionable and Felicity was actually getting something out of this storyline for herself, I could have been onboard. Now it sucks because it's so contrived for plot reasons that I can't see beyond that. And as I've said repeatedly, the comparisons are creeping me out. Ick. And I'm also annoyed that this show just seems to love shitting over their main character for the sake of everyone else. Even in 313, I'm all for Oliver being a team player and involving his partners in his decisions before he makes them but the team ganging up on him didn't land for me. I watched some clips on YT and it just felt so off. The guy was gone a month and none of them knew what he had been through. I just thought the whole thing was badly done and just another chance to run Oliver into the ground for the sake of another character. I'm sick of it. 8 Link to comment
Nagevs February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Once it was clear that Sara's Canary was going to be sacrificed to make Laurel BC, I was pretty sure that Olicity, if not Felicity herself, was doomed. Maybe not this season but eventually Oliver has to have a reason to be with Laurel again. Because comics. I hate that phrase anymore, I really do. None of the spoilers I've seen give me any reason to think they ever plan on following through with O/L in any meaningful way. This so much! I felt as soon as they killed Sara, Felicity would be doomed. She's useful now because of Ray, but the hate for her character is starting to build, so MG will be able to kill her off in season 4, with little blowback. 1 Link to comment
ban1o February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) Eh thinking she will get killed of is a little bit dramatic imo. Even if Olicity doesn't end up together they won't kill of Felicity. Even if Guggenheim or Kreisberg wanted it, CW wouldn't let it happen. Cw has prevented shows from killing off popular characters before. But I don't know where the concern is coming from. Surely they wouldn't want to spoil any very meaningful Olicity scenes this early. And I doubt any truly meaningful ones will happen until the last few episodes of the season since that is how tv works. Edited February 13, 2015 by ban1o 4 Link to comment
jay741982 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Once it was clear that Sara's Canary was going to be sacrificed to make Laurel BC, I was pretty sure that Olicity, if not Felicity herself, was doomed. Maybe not this season but eventually Oliver has to have a reason to be with Laurel again. Because comics. I hate that phrase anymore, I really do. None of the spoilers I've seen give me any reason to think they ever plan on following through with O/F in any meaningful way. (I agree, meaningful is really the key word. What's the tv equivalent of click-bait? Whatever it is, Olicity is probably listed as an alternate definition.) But they aren't even together in the comics and haven't been In a long time I don't understand how people would want a relationship on screen that's toxic and in the comics he cheated on her a bunch. Why wouldn't people want him in a non toxic relationship. I know the show has hit us with all these signs that Olicity is endgame but it seems MG is mad we don't like Laurel when his writing is one of the reasons we don't like her. On to Felicity he's a Goddamn fool and Idiot if he is trying to destroy a popular ship and Character for a very unpopular who in their right Goddamn mind trys to make a show worse? I do have a fear and this might be from watching Walking Dead. MG gave Felicity the " Moral center of the team" Label which characters on that show have gotten and then we're killed off. Both Shows are considered dark and depressing and I know it's different circumstances but when you have writers who actively think of ways to being more misery and depression I can't help think he would be stupid enough to kill off Felicity like he killed Sarah. I'd rather he send her to The Flash WITHOUT Ray then kill her off to force toxic shitty Laurvier. I'd never watch Arrow again if Felicity dies same for Diggle This so much! I felt as soon as they killed Sara, Felicity would be doomed. She's useful now because of Ray, but the hate for her character is starting to build, so MG will be able to kill her off in season 4, with little blowback. People who hate Felicity for this crap are pathetic and I'd never hate Felicity. Laurel is generally hated and they keep her around . I would NEVER like Laurel over Felicity and I suspect there others like me 3 Link to comment
Belinea February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I don't really have an opinion of MG as a private person, but he is obviously running his Twitter/Tumbler Account as a showrunner of a show. With his media presence that goes beyond interviews he is somewhat omnipresent and regarded as approachable, but he also opens the door for people and their opinions. While I do think that some people ask weird questions or ask rudely, there are people who ask politely and have valid criticism in a way that is not condescending. So he should be aware of what people like and what they find problematic. E.g. Diggle in a costume, Sara's words in Laurel's hallucination, the fast evolution of heros and the fact that people have a hard time connecting with Laurel. To dismiss the people who give you good feedback (even if it is criticism) because they truly love the show and just want to see it be awesome, is very rude. If you don't want people to interact with you, don't interact with them. Or better yet: If you don't want them to come inside, don't open the door and invite them in. At this point, he should be aware of some things people find problematic. I mean, if they mention it themselves they obviously heard it. For example: Ray and his stalking. Maybe the season finale will make the season as a whole better but at the moment I see a lot of darkness and very little light. And even though SA said that he knows how the season will end, I have lost the will to believe in his words because everything else has just been such a mess at this point. Oh and I totally believe that the 'jumping the shark' moment will be Ray flying. Because while Oliver still runs around with his old fashion bow, Ray will fly and fight whoever with laser beams. Old school vs. new school. 5 Link to comment
jay741982 February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Eh thinking she will get killed of is a little bit dramatic imo. Even if Olicity doesn't end up together they won't kill of Felicity. Even if Guggenheim or Kreisberg wanted it, CW wouldn't let it happen. Cw has prevented shows from killing off popular characters before. But I don't know where the concern is coming from. Surely they wouldn't want to spoil any very meaningful Olicity scenes this early. And I doubt any truly meaningful ones will happen until the last few episodes of the season since that is how tv works. They are nuts if Olicity doesn't end up together and is Endgame JMO 1 Link to comment
apinknightmare February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 I posted a pic of SA in the Spoiler thread on the off-chance it's actually a spoiler. PB posted it earlier - looks like he's in a cell, so maybe he does get arrested and that's why Roy's running around in his suit? Link to comment
tessaray February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 But they aren't even together in the comics and haven't been In a long time I don't understand how people would want a relationship on screen that's toxic and in the comics he cheated on her a bunch. I'm not a comics reader but I gather there are enough versions of the characters that you can pick and choose the ones you want? Good point about being labeled the moral center. Talk about anvils. :-) Link to comment
Angel12d February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 (edited) I posted a pic of SA in the Spoiler thread on the off-chance it's actually a spoiler. PB posted it earlier - looks like he's in a cell, so maybe he does get arrested and that's why Roy's running around in his suit? If that is a cell, interesting. 318 is starting to feel like the team is being broken down from all sides. Felicity might be in hospital. Roy is arrested. Oliver is likely in jail. I don't know what Diggle or Laurel are doing but with the presence of cop cars from CC, it seems like a manhunt. Maybe this is all part of Ra's plan. Edited February 13, 2015 by Angel12d 2 Link to comment
tessaray February 13, 2015 Share February 13, 2015 Eh thinking she will get killed of is a little bit dramatic imo. Even if Olicity doesn't end up together they won't kill of Felicity. Even if Guggenheim or Kreisberg wanted it, CW wouldn't let it happen. Cw has prevented shows from killing off popular characters before. But I don't know where the concern is coming from. Surely they wouldn't want to spoil any very meaningful Olicity scenes this early. And I doubt any truly meaningful ones will happen until the last few episodes of the season since that is how tv works. Lots of people said they wouldn't kill Sara off either. I don't know what they will do, I just know that MG pushing Laurel front and center while making Felicity and John act completely OOC, is when I started to feel like either Felicity or Olicity was doomed. I don't think they (O/F) are endgame. Last season I did. And since they shoved Laurel in as BC without crashing the ratings, I think that MG sees that as reason enough to ignore what the audience wants. 3 Link to comment
jay741982 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 I'm not a comics reader but I gather there are enough versions of the characters that you can pick and choose the ones you want? Good point about being labeled the moral center. Talk about anvils. :-) Yes I don't read comics either but I understand there are a bunch of different versions The moral center stuff scares me a little Tessaray. I have fears of Felicity lying on the ground and dying in Oliver's arms :( cause these goddamm writers keep dumping on him. Felicity is the love of his life and I have fears of if not next season somewhere like season 6 or something of her being Stabbed to death or something else horrible making Oliver revert into his season 1 self but worse Lots of people said they wouldn't kill Sara off either. I don't know what they will do, I just know that MG pushing Laurel front and center while making Felicity and John act completely OOC, is when I started to feel like either Felicity or Olicity was doomed. I don't think they (O/F) are endgame. Last season I did. And since they shoved Laurel in as BC without crashing the ratings, I think that MG sees that as reason enough to ignore what the audience wants. Yet Laurel still gets a lot of hate and ratings are not always a good barometer of what all the fans like either Olicity is the popular ship I don't get why you wouldn't hook up the most popular pairing? But Smallville did this too but Superman never cheated on Lois or Lana like Oliver did with Laurel 3 Link to comment
tessaray February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 The moral center stuff scares me a little Tessaray. I have fears of Felicity lying on the ground and dying in Oliver's arms :( cause these goddamm writers keep dumping on him. Felicity is the love of his life and I have fears of if not next season somewhere like season 6 or something of her being Stabbed to death or something else horrible making Oliver revert into his season 1 self but worse They've killed so many others for Oliver angst, it's probably not unreasonable to see Felicity as the ultimate way to torture Oliver. I'm not even an Olicity shipper exactly but I loved the balance that pre-S3 Felicity brought to the show and to Oliver. I know it's supposed to be a good storytelling technique to ask what will cause your character the most pain and then subject them to it, but damn. Did they ever stop to think if they let Oliver be happy for more than half an episode (onscreen anyway) that we might actually care more when the next wave hits? 3 Link to comment
jay741982 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 I just Bet Oliver will be in a cell so Ray can be there for Felicity I can't stand MG They've killed so many others for Oliver angst, it's probably not unreasonable to see Felicity as the ultimate way to torture Oliver. I'm not even an Olicity shipper exactly but I loved the balance that pre-S3 Felicity brought to the show and to Oliver. I know it's supposed to be a good storytelling technique to ask what will cause your character the most pain and then subject them to it, but damn. Did they ever stop to think if they let Oliver be happy for more than half an episode (onscreen anyway) that we might actually care more when the next wave hits? Awesome Question Tessaray. No they have too much fun and feel because Flash is light that this show has to be muy depressing!! Oliver is so in love with the Divine Ms Smoak that even if she's hurt badly and lives he will flip out and start capping fools lol Back to the using Felicity to torture Oliver I can see Ra's finding out Felicity is the one Oliver loves and target her along with Thea. Maybe an "Message" from Ra's is why Felicity is in the Hospital? 1 Link to comment
tessaray February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 If that is a cell, interesting. 318 is starting to feel like the team is being broken down from all sides. Felicity might be in hospital. Roy is arrested. Oliver is likely in jail. I don't know what Diggle or Laurel are doing but with the presence of cop cars from CC, it seems like a manhunt. Maybe this is all part of Ra's plan. Wouldn't the LOA be a little more direct? (Asking sincerely, it seems a little convoluted for Ra's and more like Slade. Or MM. Or Amanda Waller.) Link to comment
Danny Franks February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) I wonder if this means Ray always takes a vote on how he should proceed as a hero, uses a soft, melodic tone of voice, and gently incapacitates criminals. Eh, let's be real, he Crazy Eyes them into submission. And it sounds like what Felicity does with that info is ask Ray to be her +1. Meanwhile, Oliver will be sad. What have I done to deserve this? Basically, they will write him as making all the choices Felicity agrees with, in situations where Oliver would make a different choice. Because despite the creepy stalking (which apparently isn't creepy or stalking. I'm sure that's a comfort to women who have men following their every movement, but it 'comes from a good place'), he's being written as Oliver without any of the flaws, which is just fucking weird. He's essentially some perfect fantasy figure that Felicity will think she wants because trying to deal with Oliver is too hard for her to bother with. Great character beat, Guggenheim. And unlike those of you waiting for the end of the season, I very much think that this will be forced into a long haul relationship for Felicity. To further validate their pet character and further make Oliver's life shit. I imagine the season ender will be Oliver seeing Felicity go off with her new boyfriend on some crusade in another city, and fans waiting to see what stupid plot wrangling will be necessary to bring her back. Buy why, seriously fucking why, is this show that is called Arrow giving fans the origin story and heroic evolution of some fucking character who has nothing whatsoever to do with the Green Arrow mythos? What the hell is going through their tiny brains, to think this is a good idea? Now all the media is about Ray Fucking Palmer and his low-rent Iron Man act. I just... I can't even.... None of it makes any sense at all. Edited February 14, 2015 by Danny Franks 7 Link to comment
Nagevs February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 People who hate Felicity for this crap are pathetic and I'd never hate Felicity. Laurel is generally hated and they keep her around . I would NEVER like Laurel over Felicity and I suspect there others like me. I would never hate Felicity for how MG chooses to write her NOW. I grew to love this character because of how EBR chose to play her in season one, when she wasn't getting a lot of focus. She's one of the main reasons I grew to love Arrow back then. Link to comment
wonderwall February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) Ya know in that image of Stephen Amell, that window in the back is sort of like the one in that image with Karl Yune and EBR... [ETA: Nevermind, I think that looks more like a door or something] Edited February 14, 2015 by wonderwall Link to comment
BkWurm1 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) Basically, they will write him as making all the choices Felicity agrees with, in situations where Oliver would make a different choice. Because despite the creepy stalking (which apparently isn't creepy or stalking. I'm sure that's a comfort to women who have men following their every movement, but it 'comes from a good place'), he's being written as Oliver without any of the flaws, which is just fucking weird. He's essentially some perfect fantasy figure that Felicity will think she wants because trying to deal with Oliver is too hard for her to bother with. Great character beat, Guggenheim. And unlike those of you waiting for the end of the season, I very much think that this will be forced into a long haul relationship for Felicity. To further validate their pet character and further make Oliver's life shit. I imagine the season ender will be Oliver seeing Felicity go off with her new boyfriend on some crusade in another city, and fans waiting to see what stupid plot wrangling will be necessary to bring her back. The thing is, to many, nothing is more romantic than having the "perfect guy available" and instead choosing the imperfect one anyway because love doesn't care about perfect. It honestly could work, if they want it to. Edited February 14, 2015 by BkWurm1 2 Link to comment
Angel12d February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) So that's definitely a cell then. Explains why SA hasn't been on set much if he's just filming from a cell. Also explains why Oliver will be feeling overwhelmed. If his team is all over the place and Felicity is in hospital and he's stuck in jail. Oh, and this is why he has no scenes with Mama Smoak! Edited February 14, 2015 by Angel12d 4 Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) Lots of people said they wouldn't kill Sara off either. I don't know what they will do, I just know that MG pushing Laurel front and center while making Felicity and John act completely OOC, is when I started to feel like either Felicity or Olicity was doomed. I don't think they (O/F) are endgame. Last season I did. Sara was always going to die. She was created to die to motivate Laurel. Felicity was a character created on a whim who became very popular. And although people liked Sara she got a lot of backlash from both Laurel and Felicity fans. Edited February 14, 2015 by ban1o 4 Link to comment
Password February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 The thing is, to many, nothing is more romantic than having the "perfect guy available" and instead choosing the imperfect one anyway because love doesn't care about perfect. It honestly could work, if they want it to. The fact that her option is Ray, is nauseating. Nothing romantic about that crap. 1 Link to comment
jay741982 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 I would never hate Felicity for how MG chooses to write her NOW. I grew to love this character because of how EBR chose to play her in season one, when she wasn't getting a lot of focus. She's one of the main reasons I grew to love Arrow back then. Same here I love her cause she don't take Oliver's crap and is smart sexy and has quite the big heart(unlike Laurel). I'm so mad that these fucking writers didn't let her and Sara become BFFS and that they killed Sara. 1 Link to comment
Angel12d February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Wouldn't the LOA be a little more direct? (Asking sincerely, it seems a little convoluted for Ra's and more like Slade. Or MM. Or Amanda Waller.) Usually. I see it possibly being like a big game of cat and mouse, slowly driving Oliver to feel like he's reaching his limits and essentially wearing him out before the real battle has begun. Of course it might have nothing to do with Ra's and everything to do with Malcolm or Waller. I think it depends what happens in 315/316. Whenever Ra's is back. 2 Link to comment
jay741982 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 The thing is, to many, nothing is more romantic than having the "perfect guy available" and instead choosing the imperfect one anyway because love doesn't care about perfect. It honestly could work, if they want it to. In this case and I think you agree BkWurm I want Her choosing the "imperfect" One. Her and Oliver just fit together at the risk of being cheesy. That chemistry can't be ignored Link to comment
Danny Franks February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 The thing is, to many, nothing is more romantic than having the "perfect guy available" and instead choosing the imperfect one anyway because love doesn't care about perfect. It honestly could work, if they want it to. Which is why a thousand other shows have used that trope before. And usually it's accompanied by making the guy look even better by stomping down the hero even more. Looks like that's right in the wheelhouse of these writers. And honestly, doesn't it get to the point where the audience says, 'why would she want this sadsack who just gets served shit and does nothing about it?' I don't find anything romantic about having to choose between two people, personally. So what if someone else wanted you, know what you want and go and get it. If you're just going to dither long enough that both guys have a real shot, then you just end up looking bad, whatever you do. 5 Link to comment
Nagevs February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Basically, they will write him as making all the choices Felicity agrees with, in situations where Oliver would make a different choice. Because despite the creepy stalking (which apparently isn't creepy or stalking. I'm sure that's a comfort to women who have men following their every movement, but it 'comes from a good place'), he's being written as Oliver without any of the flaws, which is just fucking weird. He's essentially some perfect fantasy figure that Felicity will think she wants because trying to deal with Oliver is too hard for her to bother with. Great character beat, Guggenheim. And unlike those of you waiting for the end of the season, I very much think that this will be forced into a long haul relationship for Felicity. To further validate their pet character and further make Oliver's life shit. I imagine the season ender will be Oliver seeing Felicity go off with her new boyfriend on some crusade in another city, and fans waiting to see what stupid plot wrangling will be necessary to bring her back. Buy why, seriously fucking why, is this show that is called Arrow giving fans the origin story and heroic evolution of some fucking character who has nothing whatsoever to do with the Green Arrow mythos? What the hell is going through their tiny brains, to think this is a good idea? Now all the media is about Ray Fucking Palmer and his low-rent Iron Man act. I just... I can't even.... None of it makes any sense at all. Why do they feel it necessary to tear down the lead of their successful show this way in hopes of creating a new one? They didn't do it for the Flash (I was sold on Barry Allen in two episodes), why now? You're right it doesn't make any sense at all. I thought the idea was to have three shows, running at the same time. Felicity and Ray happy in their perfect relationship does not sound like entertaining tv to me. 4 Link to comment
statsgirl February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Felicity with Ray doesn't sound like good TV at all. Drama is in the conflict, which is why Oliver/Felicity and the hero struggle struck a chord for so many people. He's essentially some perfect fantasy figure that Felicity will think she wants because trying to deal with Oliver is too hard for her to bother with. Great character beat, Guggenheim. It depends at what level they want to do the show. Do they want it to be a complex psychological study with action, or do they want a remake of Adam West's Batman series? They may decide to go for the latter now, but if that's what the show had been like in seasons 1 and 2, how many of us would be here now? 2 Link to comment
BkWurm1 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 In this case and I think you agree BkWurm I want Her choosing the "imperfect" One. Her and Oliver just fit together at the risk of being cheesy. That chemistry can't be ignored Oh, that's what I was trying to say, that this crap with Ray could still very easily be the set up for her to come to realize that "perfect" (note the air quotes) isn't what she wants and then bonks Oliver on the head and drags him off to her cave. Which is why a thousand other shows have used that trope before. And usually it's accompanied by making the guy look even better by stomping down the hero even more. Looks like that's right in the wheelhouse of these writers. And honestly, doesn't it get to the point where the audience says, 'why would she want this sadsack who just gets served shit and does nothing about it?' I don't find anything romantic about having to choose between two people, personally. So what if someone else wanted you, know what you want and go and get it. If you're just going to dither long enough that both guys have a real shot, then you just end up looking bad, whatever you do. My first preference would be a non angst Olicity relationship where they are together and deal with their issues as they come up but if I have to endure a Raymance, then at least I want to benefit from the old troupe and get my happy ending eventually. Sadly happy is only allowed to happen in May. For about five minutes. Really, the show runners are dumbasses. They repeatedly seemed to say they understood what their audience responded to, more core team interaction and core take care of the bad guys stuff and I swear they promised that this year but instead it's like they said, hmm, we ended with the team all close and cohesive, lets blow that completely up! This again isn't anything innovative, but what they don't seem to get is that most audiences faced with this kind of storyline are mostly tolerating it and counting the weeks until they get the show they actually enjoyed back. Felicity and Ray happy in their perfect relationship does not sound like entertaining tv to me. What's the normal recipe? A few episodes where they look and act "perfect" and then it's all constant "something is missing" moments until the break up. 3 Link to comment
tarotx February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 So There is going to be a manhunt for Oliver? Or maybe Roy? Or everybody who uses or inspires people to use arrows? Perhaps for all of Team Arrow? Maybe for Sara's Murder? Perhaps Oliver will be tried in court so can't be out on the streets? Hence the need for the little Justice League on the streets? Maybe Oliver will refuse to turn Thea in so He'll confess so no presenting evidence so will be put in prison? Earlier I had a dream Oliver would go to prison for Sara's Murder. And then there would be a time jump to make Laurel a true Badass and for Prison flashbacks. It was an unpleasant dream to say the least. I don't really think that will happen but the seeming manhunt and SA in a cell area does send shivers through me >.< I mean a time jump can have Ray and Felicity married. So maybe. They can do all of our worst nightmares I guess >.< Though Ray's crazy ex is a lawyer who plays pretend superhero and gets people killed or something like that? That fits Laurel better than the BC does :p Oh god I've feared myself into tv viewer depression. Chosen entertainment is no place for this high inner torment. I'll probably have to stop watching until I know what happens. Perhaps Thea will go on the run. Kind of fits Mia. Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) All the stuff about 3x18 is actually pretty interesting to me. Why would Oliver be in jail though? IS it for his vigilantism or something else entirely. And why would Roy be dressing up as him? Where is the newly married Diggle in all of this? (I know Felicity is in the hospital with her mom) Katie and Willa aren't filming along with Stephen (which is most likely because he is in jail) Are the police after everybody in on Team Arrow? This episode takes place after The Flash crossover with Felicity and Ray so that might have something to do with all the cop cars from there. And Colton's tweet about "forever changing the dynamic of the show" is interesting. I don't think he's ever tweeted or said something like that before which makes me more inclined to believe him than Guggenheim the over exaggerator lol. Edited February 14, 2015 by ban1o 1 Link to comment
BkWurm1 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 "forever changing the dynamic of the show" Damn. That sounds ominous. 2 Link to comment
jay741982 February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Damn. That sounds ominous. It does. The only thing I can think of is all of Team Arrow are considered Criminals maybe? Link to comment
wonderwall February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 And Colton's tweet about "forever changing the dynamic of the show" is interesting. LMAO Colton is the biggest troll. I believe he even once said that Roy would be de facto leader when Oliver was gone lol I tend to believe nothing he says Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) LMAO Colton is the biggest troll. I believe he even once said that Roy would be de facto leader when Oliver was gone lol I tend to believe nothing he says lol he said that? I don't remember that I thought he said Diggle would become the de facto leader and that Roy would become "more of a leader" But yeah Colton is a troll at times lol. I still remember that Sara mess. Edited February 14, 2015 by ban1o Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 I also wonder what happens in 3x15 that will be a "game changer" according to Guggenheim. That is before they go on hiatus for a few weeks so it might be a huge cliffhanger. Link to comment
kismet February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 What if mm betrays Oliver by sending the evidence that indicated that oq was the one that killed Sara? Ras I guess could do jt too. But I doubt it would be his vigilantism that would get him arrested. So that explains oq in a cell, but why is Roy out running in green suit. I can understand that to cover the fact that oq is out of town, but why would it matter if he as in jail. I would assume sc would just think the arrow abandoned them again. I also can't see this as an epic game changer, unless u count mm betrayal, but that's anticipated. I think there is just too many unknowns to really narrow down anything. Ras is the big bad, but so far he's done nothing big bad like. Mm is apparently reforming, so he can't do anything if he keeps on that track. So we're left with nothing really to speculate on, plus the more analysis & logic we put to stories, the less likely the writers will come up with some plot that matches our theories. Its becoming so frustrating cuz I want to guess, but at the same time wanna spare myself the agony of being disappointed when it amounts to nothing. Link to comment
wonderwall February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 I also wonder what happens in 3x15 that will be a "game changer" according to Guggenheim. That is before they go on hiatus for a few weeks so it might be a huge cliffhanger. Ray suiting up, I think. 1 Link to comment
kismet February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Also, I think the ratings will eventually catch up with them if they mess too much with the dynamic that made the show. The ratings for these past 4 episodes are not indicative if people like the direction of the show because people are still waiting around to see if it changes. There were many reasons to turn into these previous EPs that had nothing to do with laurel or ray. They'd have to look at ratings in comparison to other seasons. This show never really had a sophomore slump, so I wonder if some of these growing pains are part of a s3 funk phenomenon/ hangover. They had a five year plan for Oliver, so I get his slow development. But the rush on LL & RP, I have no idea how they were factored into the plan? I will say that of they kill/marginalize diggle &/or felicity in s3 or s4, I'm out. I left grey's when they killed a character & completely changed another. I don't regret leaving that show. I can't get invested in new characters when u blatantly threw away characters I liked with little care or respect. Find a way to make them all work or find a new audience. Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Ray suiting up, I think. aah you are probably right Link to comment
statsgirl February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Ray suits up in 3x15 but there are still problems so Felicity takes him to Cisco in The Flash 1x17, and things blow up there. Then 3x18 seems like a mess, with Felicity in hospital, Oliver in jail and who knows where everyone else is. Malcolm was supposed to be captured and taken to Ra's in 3x15 and Oliver has to decide whether to save him. What happened with that? Link to comment
ban1o February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Malcolm was supposed to be captured and taken to Ra's in 3x15 and Oliver has to decide whether to save him. What happened with that? Mmm has Barrowman been filming with the rest of the cast? Link to comment
wonderwall February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 Mmm has Barrowman been filming with the rest of the cast? I dunno, but if he is, I hope the scene constitutes Thea kicking Malcolm's butt while Felicity is on her computer draining his funds and putting him on the no fly list so they trap him and give him hell. 2 Link to comment
statsgirl February 14, 2015 Share February 14, 2015 (edited) Some funny and off the wall guesses as to what the big gamechanger will be Colton Haynes says that Arrow is about the change forever That basement lair under the nightclub is a hotbed of sexual tension, and it’s about time that somebody succumbed to it. Our money is on Roy and Laurel; their becoming a couple would definitely change the dynamic of the show, in that it would piss off basically everybody. Edited February 14, 2015 by statsgirl 1 Link to comment
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