Spoiler Discussion Thread

[BkWurm1]

They didn't pull apart Oliver and Sara once they got together, it was six episodes of kisses in front of Felicity and sleeping together until they suddenly went boom!  And if Oliver is interacting with Ray a lot, that means really uncomfortable (for me) scenes of jealousy/awkwardness as Oliver works with Ray while Felicity is dating him.

 

They didn't break them up right away but they started planting the seeds of their discord.  Somehow I doubt Felicity and Ray will fight over killing Roy for his own good but there will be some kind of issues even if it is as simple as Felicity not feeling what she thinks she should be feeling. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I don't remember any discord early on.  in 3x14, Oliver was kissing Sara in front of Felicity and Diggle was the only one bothered by it.  Later, Oliver got mad at Felicity for trying to train by herself because she had stepped out of the box he put her in but nothing of that with Sara.  It wasn't till Slade kidnapped Thea and later Roy got ragey in seeing Red that there was any discord.

 

Any theories on how 3x14 is a love letter to the fans?

In the same way 3x02 was a love letter to Sara?

[BkWurm1]

I don't remember any discord early on

 

It may not have specifically been discord but there seemed to be clear signs that they weren't meant to last, like say that huge reminder that Oliver had slept with her sister.  That kind of stuff counts in my mind. 

 

Also Felicity and Diggle's conversation about them, while not super negative, was a clear indication that this hook up wasn't being met with joy.  I expect something similar between Oliver and Diggle.  Eventually I expect Oliver to be torn because he will decide that Ray is a good guy and that matches with Felicity really coming to admire Sara but in the end, will Felicity be able to see herself long term with Ray?   Oliver was living in the moment with Sara and I think that will be what Felicity does with Ray until either he presses for more or something happens to wake her up. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

Hee! I think it's more likely Stephen Amell went I WON'T DANCE AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME, SUCKERS, and they've decided to let the poor fella win THAT fight.

It has been spoiled that Oliver does not dance and there is no dance @ the Dyla Wedding, but I have to imagine that is because the suicide squad blows up the reception. Cuz really for the duration of the show, they're never gonna share a dance. I dont buy that. Plus in the original kiss, he twirled her around! In my mind that opened the gate of possibility :)

[statsgirl]

It may not have specifically been discord but there seemed to be clear signs that they weren't meant to last, like say that huge reminder that Oliver had slept with her sister. 

I agree that they weren't meant to last but the fact that Oliver had slept with Laurel was part of their history and the problems from that, not a present day discord (cuz I'm picky like that).

 

I'm still madly hoping that Ray and Felicity don't get together, no matter what AK says, but if they do, I want discord soon, not to have Felicity consider him a real choice over Oliver.

Edited January 30, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

I like Ray and I do want Felicity to have a relationship with him. I mean yeah, Ray has some issues and he wasn't perfect and definitely not what I wanted for a love interest for Felicity. But I did want a love interest for her. In two seasons we saw Oliver have a go at other relationships and we saw why they didn't work and why he and Felicity do work. So he's figured it out. But so far Felicity hasn't. So we know they love each other, and that they work and everything, but the characters don't yet (at least not Felicity). 

 

So let Felicity have this relationship and let her explore other guys, and see just why it's Oliver for her. Ray is her Sara. Just like her, can keep up with her mentality like Sara could keep up with Oliver in physical fights. But that's not what Oliver and Felicity need. And it's cheap writing and they are repeating storylines from 2B, but that doesn't surprise me at all. So if we get the lunge and we get Felicity seeing just why her and Ray don't work, that is going to make Olicity so much better imo. Because Felicity will see what we see. 

 

And one of the reasons I wanted one for her is so we could do away with the idea that she is just sitting in the foundry and pining for Oliver, waiting for him to get it together. But right now Oliver is saying "maybe. I could have feelings for you. I could be with you. Maybe". And Ray is saying "I do like you. I do have feelings for you" and that is what Felicity needs at the moment after 8 months of not knowing what her and Oliver are or where they stand. 

Alright, you've changed my mind a little bit... Let them date if that is what is needed. I might cringe, but thats not new these days. Plus I sorta want Oliver to come back to town and be like GAME ON! Im gonna fight for Felicity & QC. You wanna play in the big leagues Ray, bring it I just came back from the Dead for the second time!. I dont even need my bow & arrow to be a Bad ASS, but apparently, you definitely need the suit.

 

I just don't/won't appreciate them making it seem like Ray & Felicity have these DEEP feelings for each other, not after a few episodes. I can understand the whole idea of Felicity wanting to try something different. But please make it realistic... Ray was mourning Anna up until last episode, Felicity has just come to terms w/ Oliver's death. Note to Arrow writers, don't diminish the character & emotional beats you built up in previous episodes just to make a plot. Have them date but don't tell me their long lost loves. I never believed it about Sara (and they had a history). I refuse to believe it about Ray & Felicity.

[BkWurm1]

I agree that they weren't meant to last but the fact that Oliver had slept with Laurel was part of their history and the problems from that, not a present day discord (cuz I'm picky like that).

 

I'm still madly hoping that Ray and Felicity don't get together, no matter what AK says, but if they do, I want discord soon, not to have Felicity consider him a real choice over Oliver.

Sadly, I think we have already heard that Felicity will consider Ray a real choice so I am doing my best to be prepared.  I survived Chimmy on Smallville and that sucked harder than I can possibly explain.  The term Pod Chloe got coined for very real reasons.  I guess I shouldn't use Smallville as an example but I don't expect Raylicity to last that long. 

 

As for cheating on Laurel, yes it was in the past but that huge dinner blow up brought it all back tot he present. 

[BkWurm1]

I just don't/won't appreciate them making it seem like Ray & Felicity have these DEEP feelings for each other, not after a few episodes. I can understand the whole idea of Felicity wanting to try something different. But please make it realistic... Ray was mourning Anna up until last episode, Felicity has just come to terms w/ Oliver's death. Note to Arrow writers, don't diminish the character & emotional beats you built up in previous episodes just to make a plot. Have them date but don't tell me their long lost loves. I never believed it about Sara (and they had a history). I refuse to believe it about Ray & Felicity.

 

I think what we could end up getting is a lot of transferred feelings.  There are things about Ray that remind Felicity of Oliver and it's not like her feelings for Oliver are going to go away just because she thinks it would be better for them both if they do (I'm guessing here) so yeah, I think that any feelings we see that seem deep will actually be a combo of Felicity does care about her friends and a case of transference of the love she feels for Oliver.  Something similar for Ray.  After all, Felicity is his rebound too. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I think this Felicity/Oliver/Ray triangle is much more reminiscent of Season One (with Laurel/Tommy/Oliver) than anything that happened in Season Two. Felicity's seemingly going to be angry at Oliver when he comes back (just like Laurel was in the pilot) and Felicity/Ray might end up dating. 

 

Also, if we assume that what SA said "Felicity tells Oliver to stop pursuing her romantically" is true, then I don't think Oliver will really try to fight for her, at least not until the last few episodes (which is also pretty similar to Season One). 

Edited January 30, 2015 by drspaceman10

[jay741982]

But since we are getting a triangle and Felicity will be torn between Ray and Oliver(should be no hard choice at all Oliver all the way) plus Oliver sharing a "Ton" of scenes with Ray I think he will battle for QC and Felicity. I think we get Jealous Oliver

[statsgirl]

The thing about season 1 is that Oliver seemed fine with Laurel dating Tommy, even happy for them since he had to be shut off himself, until it was time for him to start to pursue her again in time for the finale.  The scene in The Undertaking when Laurel goes to Oliver for advice about Tommy, he seemed genuinely concerned for his friends and their happiness together.

 

The show has gone to lengths to show that Oliver wants/cares about Felicity (four ILUs at last count) and he's just going to stop all that cold turkey because she's emotional because she thought he had died?

 

If Felicity tells Oliver to stop pursuing her romantically and he just drops the whole love/romance thing, then he's even more of an idiot than I thought he was.

 

I'm looking forward to this not the slightest bit.  That can't be what spoilers are for.

Edited January 30, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

Ha, yeah, if nothing else, Barry and the rest of Team Flash would enjoy having him.  If anything, Barry might be too happy to see him. If Team Arrow is going to just be a dick to him when he finally comes back, there better be a great reason for it, or I would be all for Ollie being like "Fuck it!"

 

The more I read about Ray and the wedding, the more I dread it.  For all the crap I give Laurel at times, I honestly think the love TPTB have for him and Brandon Routh is even worse.  If this is all for a spin-off, it would almost be worth it, but even then, it was too much.  Barry only had two episodes on Arrow before his show, and that worked out perfectly.

I was actually just thinking how much Grant Gustin just knocked it out of the park in his 2 episodes. People still talk about Barricity, and it was never even a real thing. I mean he just made everyone love him. I have not seen all the comments regarding BR, but it seems that he has more mixed reactions at best. Its been how many episodes and people are barely on board with him... It seems so weird since BR seems like a really charismatic good guy in real life, but it doesn't always translate on screen. He has his moments, but so many of them fall flat, awkward, creepy or weird. Hopefully, they can get it together to make his spin-off happen. I really can't have him be a S4 regular.

[Ariah]

I think this Felicity/Oliver/Ray triangle is much more reminiscent of Season One (with Laurel/Tommy/Oliver) than anything that happened in Season Two. Felicity's seemingly going to be angry at Oliver when he comes back (just like Laurel was in the pilot) and Felicity/Ray might end up dating. 

 

Also, if we assume that what SA said "Felicity tells Oliver to stop pursuing her romantically" is true, then I don't think Oliver will really try to fight for her, at least not until the last few episodes (which is also pretty similar to Season One). 

 

True.

Why do they insist on repeating the very same mistakes that made Laurel an unlikable character (in my books), I have no idea.

 

The sad thing is, I like Felicity because I could relate to her - the choices her character made were most of the time the choices I would make in her place. Yet in the last episode, I found it difficult to relate. And from what I'm reading about the future episodes, the trend will continue.

 

I really need a female character I can relate to on a show like this - and they're taking away my proxy. I hope they have a good justification for the incoming actions, because frankly - nothing fits.

[DrSpaceman10]

The show has gone to lengths to show that Oliver wants/cares about Felicity (four ILUs at last count) and he's just going to stop all that cold turkey because she's emotional because she thought he had died?

 

This is exactly what I think is going to happen (at least for a few episodes). As much as I want Oliver to fight for Felicity, I don't think he will until the end of the season. Even though we know that Oliver loves Felicity, I still think he'll accept (but not be happy with) Felicity dating Ray. I don't think Oliver would try to come in between Felicity and Ray if they were dating.

 

Of course it's still possible that Felicity won't date Ray...

[kismet]

That's he's the Arrow. I'm just wondering how it could all be explained without her knowing anything but I guess there's a way. 

 

I guess they both have unfinished business with Slade because of Moira though. Too bad she's not in this episode.  

So not to sound too twisty... but was rewatching some of S2 when Malcolm comes back after finding out about Thea being his daughter and Moira was so against it. Do you think its possible that Malcolm could have been behind Slade's uprising? Yes there was the ridiculous revenge for Shado rationale given, saw the ?beginnings? of that when Slade makes some dumb comment about a prettier crutch. But I really think there maybe something between Malcolm & Slade teaming up. Never saw it before, but there was something in the confrontation between Moira & Malcolm about him wanting her to tell Thea, and her threatening that you will never take my daughter that made me wonder could Malcolm have been behind Slade's decision to kill Moira. Slade must have needed some funding. Malcolm probably knew about Robert & Isabel's affair, so why not loop her in as well. In some weird way it sorta links things together. It also makes Malcolm more of a long term villainous mastermind, thus making him pretty awful and responsible for basically every really bad thing that has happened to oliver (deaths of Robert, Moira, Sara & tommy, the gambit, the island). Awful enough that Thea may actually leave him when she finds out & Oliver may actually consider teaming up with Ras to destroy his archenemy. Cuz why bring back Malcolm and sign him for a long contract if he is not set up to be his Archenemy? It also would make sense that Malcolm would be the one that goes to find Slade and tie up loose ends. What better way to motivate Thea to do his dirty business again? But Slade, the purveyor of truth to Thea (seriously, the only one who hasnt lied to her) finally reveals the truth to her about who Malcolm really is. This theory is gaining momentum in my head.

 

Sidenote -  I would love to see Slade actually feel some remorse for his actions and return to the more brotherly persona he was before he dies, cuz I think he might die in this upcoming episode

[Password]

Raylicity lovin' is exactly why I won't be watching. I think I only really started disliking Oliver and Sara towards the end because I kept thinking "this is a big fat nothing". They made Oliver an insensitive jerk and not to mention more Sara apparently meant less Diggle and Felicity.

Raylicity is something I want nothing to do with from the start. I have ZERO time for watching Felicity "make a choice". I'd much rather she pull a Buffy and choose herself. So I won't be watching for a long time. If her decision is still "pending consideration" by the finale I'll probably be out. Screw equal opportunity, I sat through crap in season 2b, I don't need to do it in 3b.

On the other hand, I do want to see Slade. So, there ARE elements I'm looking forward to.

[Genki]

"The Return" - might just be a meta comment of what happens with their Audience....but Damn them for luring me in with Slade! 

 

If it wasn't for him I probably wouldn't watch until 3.17. Everything spoiled seems designed to lessen my interest. 

 

The Flashback seems uninteresting to me and I loved the Tommy /Oliver Hong Kong flashback earlier in the season. 

Edited January 30, 2015 by Genki

[Danny Franks]

So they're going to have Felicity reject Oliver (possibly for stupid noble reasons) despite the audience knowing that he told her he loved her and his 'last' thoughts were of her. Then they're going to have her hook up with a guy who she has actively and consciously compared to Oliver, but apparently is 'easier'. Well, that works out quite well for her, doesn't it?

 

Will this be another case of Guggenheim being 'surprised' by the reaction of fans. Which seems to happen whenever he puts something in that is glaringly obviously going to be wildly unpopular. Like using Sara's voice for Laurel to fool Quentin into thinking his daughter wasn't brutally murdered a few months back and no one wants to tell him.

[Velocity23]

So yeah i will just continue watching the youtube clips. With 3x13 & 3x14 not even mentioning Felicity & Diggle i will prolong my hiatus till 3x17/3x18

[Ariah]

Isn't 3.12 the episode in which we see how Malcolm became the cold-hearted, back-stabbing person he is today?

 

So maybe whatever Felicity learns about Malcolm and his love for the late Rebecca will influence her reaction to Oliver?

If Malcolm became the villain after the woman he loved was killed, maybe - and it's awfully convoluted - Felicity feels she wants to protect Oliver from the same fate? Still, it's a reasoning from a badly written fanfiction.

 

The thing is, I cannot imagine a situation in which a woman in love shuts down a man who literally came back from the dead (having said he love her before dying). Even if he comes back and acts chaotically or stupid, the woman in love would slap him over the thick skull and become his grounding rod and guiding light.

 

If the writers make Felicity be mad at Oliver for dressing as Arrow and saving the city before telling her he's alive, it means they are turning her into Laurel and there's no help but to switch off the tv.

[dtissagirl]

Any theories on how 3x14 is a love letter to the fans?

My guess is since they're returning to both SC before we knew it, and Lian Yu, this episode is gonna be packed with WINK WINK self-references.

Also, I'm not putting it past them that Felicity and/or Diggle somehow appear in the flashbacks.

Edit: I've been thinking about Donna Smoak in a hospital, not interacting with anyone but Felicity... So it's not Felicity getting hurt, because why wouldn't everyone else be at the hospital? I've been having a horrible feeling this is a cancer scare for Mama Smoak. Per Kreisberg, their story breaking is "how can we hurt Felicity some more?" Well, that would do it.

Please let me be wrong and it's that Donna now works in a hospital. Or is there to adopt a new baby. Or her best friend is having a baby and she called Felicity to bring in the cupcakes she ordered for baby visitors.

Edited January 30, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Chiny11]

I think this Felicity/Oliver/Ray triangle is much more reminiscent of Season One (with Laurel/Tommy/Oliver) than anything that happened in Season Two. Felicity's seemingly going to be angry at Oliver when he comes back (just like Laurel was in the pilot) and Felicity/Ray might end up dating.

Also, if we assume that what SA said "Felicity tells Oliver to stop pursuing her romantically" is true, then I don't think Oliver will really try to fight for her, at least not until the last few episodes (which is also pretty similar to Season One).

Oh boy! The triangle from hell (Tommy /Laurel /Oliver) was awful.

I hope this second triangle from hell (Ray/Felicity /Oliver) does not parallel that season 1 triangle. If Felicity decides to date Ray, then she should better stick to him till that pairing plays out.

I hope we don't get any stupid Oliver/Felicity frickle frackle when she and Ray are still together or on a "break". If that happens, I don't think the character Felicity can survive the backlash.

I hope she has a clean and definitive break-up with Ray before she gets together with Oliver.

Just my opinion.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Chiny11

[jay741982]

This is exactly what I think is going to happen (at least for a few episodes). As much as I want Oliver to fight for Felicity, I don't think he will until the end of the season. Even though we know that Oliver loves Felicity, I still think he'll accept (but not be happy with) Felicity dating Ray. I don't think Oliver would try to come in between Felicity and Ray if they were dating.

Of course it's still possible that Felicity won't date Ray...

Since its a triangle I'm thinking he does fight for her maybe not the very next episode but he will since we are supposed to believe Ray has a shot when really he shouldn't. And it might come to a head at the Dyla wedding/Mama Smoak visit. Edited January 30, 2015 by jay741982

[apinknightmare]

Oh boy! The triangle from hell (Tommy /Laurel /Oliver) was awful.

I hope this second triangle from hell (Ray/Felicity /Oliver) does not parallel that season 1 triangle. If Felicity decides to date Ray, then she should better stick to him till that pairing plays out.

I hope we don't get any stupid Oliver/Felicity frickle frackle when she and Ray are still together or on a "break". If that happens, I don't think the character Felicity can survive the backlash.

I hope she has a clean and definitive break-up with Ray before she gets together with Oliver.

Just my opinion.

Felicity's character would survive doing anything with Oliver while she was with Ray, break or not, relationship or not. She wouldn't survive anything that happens with Ray while she's with Oliver. Sad but true.

[jay741982]

Oh boy! The triangle from hell (Tommy /Laurel /Oliver) was awful.

I hope this second triangle from hell (Ray/Felicity /Oliver) does not parallel that season 1 triangle. If Felicity decides to date Ray, then she should better stick to him till that pairing plays out.

I hope we don't get any stupid Oliver/Felicity frickle frackle when she and Ray are still together or on a "break". If that happens, I don't think the character Felicity can survive the backlash.

I hope she has a clean and definitive break-up with Ray before she gets together with Oliver.

Just my opinion.

I really think People need to give her a break but I bet Oliver would get a pass if it was him SMDH. I'm saying thats probably what SOME people would do unfairly trash her.

[Danny Franks]

Felicity's character would survive doing anything with Oliver while she was with Ray, break or not, relationship or not. She wouldn't survive anything that happens with Ray while she's with Oliver. Sad but true.

 

I think she's already likely to take a big hit by shutting Oliver down if/when he makes a romantic play for her, and then going off to date Ray an episode or two later. Because while she doesn't know that Oliver 'died' thinking of her, the audience does. But like I said, Guggenheim will just say he's 'surprised at the reaction' when it happens.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Danny Franks

[jay741982]

I think she's already likely to take a big hit by shutting Oliver down if/when he makes a romantic play for her, and then goes off to date Ray an episode or two later. Because while she doesn't know that Oliver 'died' thinking of her, the audience does. But like I said, Guggenheim will just say he's 'surprised at the reaction' when it happens.

If Oliver doesn't tell her that(which I'm pretty sure he won't) people need to give her a break.

[looptab]

Also, I'm not putting it past them that Felicity and/or Diggle somehow appear in the flashbacks.

Edit: I've been thinking about Donna Smoak in a hospital, not interacting with anyone but Felicity... So it's not Felicity getting hurt, because why wouldn't everyone else be at the hospital? I've been having a horrible feeling this is a cancer scare for Mama Smoak. Per Kreisberg, their story breaking is "how can we hurt Felicity some more?" Well, that would do it.

 

You know, I think that's actually what they'll do. Have one of them bump into Oliver or something.

I had the same feeling about Mama Smoak. Please no. We just met her :(

Also, I just read SA's Q&A and he said there was a recent incident in the script that was too close to his actual life and he asked to change that. Wonder what that could be? 

Edited January 30, 2015 by looptab

[apinknightmare]

I think she's already likely to take a big hit by shutting Oliver down if/when he makes a romantic play for her, and then goes off to date Ray an episode or two later. Because while she doesn't know that Oliver 'died' thinking of her, the audience does. But like I said, Guggenheim will just say he's 'surprised at the reaction' when it happens.

She'll take a hit for turning Oliver down regardless of whether he just came back from the dead or not. He loves her, he told her so, and since she's not waiting for him and/or doesn't trust that he won't run at the first opportunity, she's a terrible person (and many, many other words I would never use to refer to a woman), playing with his emotions/has a black heart/can't possibly love him, etc. ad nauseum.

[Chiny11]

She'll take a hit for turning Oliver down regardless of whether he just came back from the dead or not. He loves her, he told her so, and since she's not waiting for him and/or doesn't trust that he won't run at the first opportunity, she's a terrible person (and many, many other words I would never use to refer to a woman), playing with his emotions/has a black heart/can't possibly love him, etc. ad nauseum.

Unfortunately that's usually the viewers reaction to female TV characters as opposed to male TV characters (when they make the exact decision). The male characters either get a pass or very minimal backlash. Sad really.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Chiny11

[jay741982]

She'll take a hit for turning Oliver down regardless of whether he just came back from the dead or not. He loves her, he told her so, and since she's not waiting for him and/or doesn't trust that he won't run at the first opportunity, she's a terrible person (and many, many other words I would never use to refer to a woman), playing with his emotions/has a black heart/can't possibly love him, etc. ad nauseum.

I won't think that but its so ignorant for people to think that if its clear she isnt . I like oliver a lot but Felicity has vaild reasons to not trust he'd run

[Danny Franks]

Unfortunately that's usually the viewers reaction to female TV characters as opposed to male TV characters (when they make the exact decision). The male characters either get a pass or very minimal backlash. Sad really.

 

I think if Felicity had told Oliver she loved him and then 'died' thinking of him, he would get major backlash for then turning her down afterwards. Don't think this is a case where sexism can be blamed. Shitty writing (as usual) takes the blame for this one. They shouldn't write it so all the feelings being displayed are on one side, and then have the other person act in a way that can be perceived as cruel or selfish. It's not a good mix at all.

[apinknightmare]

I think if Felicity had told Oliver she loved him and then 'died' thinking of him, he would get major backlash for then turning her down afterwards. Don't think this is a case where sexism can be blamed. Shitty writing (as usual) takes the blame for this one. They shouldn't write it so all the feelings being displayed are on one side, and then have the other person act in a way that can be perceived as cruel or selfish. It's not a good mix at all.

It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that she'll tell him she doesn't love him and actually act in a way that's cruel or selfish, but she hasn't done that yet. He's told her he loved her in roundabout ways, and then done absolutely nothing about it. He only just outright said it the last time he saw her, and I'll (foolishly, probably) wait to pass judgment on something that hasn't even happened yet.

[jay741982]

I think if Felicity had told Oliver she loved him and then 'died' thinking of him, he would get major backlash for then turning her down afterwards. Don't think this is a case where sexism can be blamed. Shitty writing (as usual) takes the blame for this one. They shouldn't write it so all the feelings being displayed are on one side, and then have the other person act in a way that can be perceived as cruel or selfish. It's not a good mix at all.

I might be wrong but she'll shut him down :( probably cause of her issues then run off and cry cause she hurt him or She does it Cause she feels she's a distraction to his mission. But who knows with these writers. I'm inclined to agree with whoever said there are probably a couple writers who resent Felicitys mad popularity and are trying to take her down a page or two

[Ariah]

She'll take a hit for turning Oliver down regardless of whether he just came back from the dead or not. He loves her, he told her so, and since she's not waiting for him and/or doesn't trust that he won't run at the first opportunity, she's a terrible person (and many, many other words I would never use to refer to a woman), playing with his emotions/has a black heart/can't possibly love him, etc. ad nauseum.

Frankly? I'd be blaming the writers for ruining a great character.

Perhaps Felicity gets trashed on the internet, perhaps not - but I believe the writers are right now doing terrible job with her character. It's not like she's the only character being ruined, but as I used to relate to Felicity I feel the difference in her more than in others.

 

In the end it'll all comes down to "I would never have done that in her place" notion. But yes, I'm waiting for 3.12 to see.

[jay741982]

I think if Felicity had told Oliver she loved him and then 'died' thinking of him, he would get major backlash for then turning her down afterwards. Don't think this is a case where sexism can be blamed. Shitty writing (as usual) takes the blame for this one. They shouldn't write it so all the feelings being displayed are on one side, and then have the other person act in a way that can be perceived as cruel or selfish. It's not a good mix at all.

See I don't think Felicity is gonna get the full story from him, that he died thinking of her realising he wanted that future with her and likely still does.

[apinknightmare]

Frankly? I'd be blaming the writers for ruining a great character.

Perhaps Felicity gets trashed on the internet, perhaps not - but I believe the writers are right now doing terrible job with her character. It's not like she's the only character being ruined, but as I used to relate to Felicity I feel the difference in her more than in others.

In the end it'll all comes down to "I would never have done that in her place" notion. But yes, I'm waiting for 3.12 to see.

Yeah, these people forgetting character and writing to plot isn't anything new. MG saying that they thought Felicity could molest a kitten and then set it on fire or whatever and people will still like her suggests they think they can do pretty much anything with her and she'll be untouchable. Hopefully they don't test that theory out too much.

I'll wait and see. MG thinking people will be angry suggests to me that it's probably not going to be that bad and/or will actually make some damn sense. I'm just not going to get down and cynical about it until I actually see what happens. THEN I'll get down and cynical about it, haha.

[doesntworkonwood]

I don't really know how I feel about it. I think it really depends how it plays out. 

 

Before, I would have said that it would be okay for her to be mad at him, but that was when I thought he'd be gone for months and chose not to come back. I'd have been fine with her being upset and angry about that. But the way they've played this out? It's only been two weeks and he's coming back as soon as he can, so what's there to be angry about? 

 

And for her to take a step back from being in a romantic relationship with Oliver would have been fine, and completely understandable. With Sara and Oliver dead, the idea that Felicity had come to a harsh realisation about what they were doing would make complete sense, and her not trusting Oliver romantically would have been fine. But then they throw Ray into the mix, and none of it makes sense. Why would Felicity leave Oliver, a guy she's known for two and a half years, a guy she obviously has very deep feelings for, a guy who has come back to her, for some rando she met half a year ago who is in the exact same danger that Oliver is in? 

 

The idea that Ray loves Felicity, or that Felicity has any sort of feelings for Ray comparable to her feelings for Oliver just astounds me. That's not what I've been watching at all. 

 

It would be one thing if Ray was a 'normal guy'. I could see her attempting to move on then, but what's the point if she's just going to end up in the same position a few months down the line. 

[tv echo]

I'm pessimistic, but here's my overall impression of MG from past comments, interviews, etc...

 

I don't think MG likes Olicity at all.  But he doesn't want to lose the Olicity fans, so he makes comments that sound like he likes Olicity.  The EPs had to explore the Oliver & Felicity relationship because they saw the on-screen chemistry between SA and EBR and could see their relationship developing organically.

 

I think MG loves both KC and Laurel.  I think he loves the Black Canary.  I think he wants eventually to return to the show's original vision of GA and BC fighting together and loving together.  Whether the other EPs will let him is another question.  But the EPs expect this show to last for several years, so he figures he has time - so long as the door is left open for Oliver to end up with anyone.

 

I think MG really wants fans to love Felicity with Ray, so that it opens up options either to drop any further Oliver/Felicity romance or for Felicity to leave the show with Ray to go to an Atom spin-off.

 

In short, I'm not sure that Oliver and Felicity will finally get together by the end of this season as some might be expecting.  If they do, I'll be pleasantly surprised.  Yes, I'm that pessimistic.

[Sunshine]

My guess is since they're returning to both SC before we knew it, and Lian Yu, this episode is gonna be packed with WINK WINK self-references.

Also, I'm not putting it past them that Felicity and/or Diggle somehow appear in the flashbacks.

Edit: I've been thinking about Donna Smoak in a hospital, not interacting with anyone but Felicity... So it's not Felicity getting hurt, because why wouldn't everyone else be at the hospital? I've been having a horrible feeling this is a cancer scare for Mama Smoak. Per Kreisberg, their story breaking is "how can we hurt Felicity some more?" Well, that would do it.

Please let me be wrong and it's that Donna now works in a hospital. Or is there to adopt a new baby. Or her best friend is having a baby and she called Felicity to bring in the cupcakes she ordered for baby visitors.

I wondered this same thing.  Either Felicity is running back and forth between the hospital and work or she could have gone to Vegas and all we see are hospital scenes.  Seems to me if they were in SC there would be some interaction.  Same with Felicity in the hospital.

 

Someone mentioned Felicity not being mentioned in the synopsis for 3.13 & 3.14.  The only thing I have seen is that Felicity & Laurel have a "great" scene in 3.13 and that her babbling returns in 3.14.  Since Oliver is on Lian Yu this makes me wonder if she says some inappropriate things around Ray. It was cute in S1 with Oliver but I thought she had grown out of that stage. It hasn't even happened and yet it annoys me because evidently she reverts to this stage because she's around a guy?  Why does Felicity's identity have to revolve around the man in her life?

Edited January 30, 2015 by Sunshine

[apinknightmare]

I don't really know how I feel about it. I think it really depends how it plays out.

Before, I would have said that it would be okay for her to be mad at him, but that was when I thought he'd be gone for months and chose not to come back. I'd have been fine with her being upset and angry about that. But the way they've played this out? It's only been two weeks and he's coming back as soon as he can, so what's there to be angry about?

And for her to take a step back from being in a romantic relationship with Oliver would have been fine, and completely understandable. With Sara and Oliver dead, the idea that Felicity had come to a harsh realisation about what they were doing would make complete sense, and her not trusting Oliver romantically would have been fine. But then they throw Ray into the mix, and none of it makes sense. Why would Felicity leave Oliver, a guy she's known for two and a half years, a guy she obviously has very deep feelings for, a guy who has come back to her, for some rando she met half a year ago who is in the exact same danger that Oliver is in?

The idea that Ray loves Felicity, or that Felicity has any sort of feelings for Ray comparable to her feelings for Oliver just astounds me. That's not what I've been watching at all.

It would be one thing if Ray was a 'normal guy'. I could see her attempting to move on then, but what's the point if she's just going to end up in the same position a few months down the line.

That's why I'm going to wait and see what happens because none of this really makes sense. It might not after, but who knows? I don't think Felicity's going to be angry with Oliver over anything that transpired over his death. I think he's going to do something stupid that's going to upset her after he comes back (aligning with Malcolm, who already tried to get him killed once). Being in love with someone who seems resigned to death and making idiotic decisions that make their death more likely (she never heard Oliver say he didn't want to die like that) is different than being with someone who does something risky. The risk of loving a vigilante wasn't ever Felicity's problem. It's the loving one who's resigned himself to dying in pursuit of his cause that might be.

[dtissagirl]

I'm pessimistic, but here's my overall impression of MG from past comments, interviews, etc...

 

I don't think MG likes Olicity at all.  But he doesn't want to lose the Olicity fans, so he makes comments that sound like he likes Olicity.  The EPs had to explore the Oliver & Felicity relationship because they saw the on-screen chemistry between SA and EBR and could see their relationship developing organically.

 

I think MG loves both KC and Laurel.  I think he loves the Black Canary.  I think he wants eventually to return to the show's original vision of GA and BC fighting together and loving together.  Whether the other EPs will let him is another question.  But the EPs expect this show to last for several years, so he figures he has time - so long as the door is left open for Oliver to end up with anyone.

 

I think MG really wants fans to love Felicity with Ray, so that it opens up options either to drop any further Oliver/Felicity romance or for Felicity to leave the show with Ray to go to an Atom spin-off.

 

In short, I'm not sure that Oliver and Felicity will finally get together by the end of this season as some might be expecting.  If they do, I'll be pleasantly surprised.  Yes, I'm that pessimistic.

I have no idea what MG likes or dislikes, and I don't know how it'll be in the future, but currently? I think if MG pitches a return to Laurel/Oliver to the Warner Bros executives he'll get told "LOL NO" so fast he'll get dizzy.

I know showrunners like to project this image that they're our evil overlords, but on a property like Arrow, that *loses money* while on air, and only recoups it via DVD sales/Netflix and other digital platforms/syndication a year and a half from now? It's not just DC telling them what comic book stuff they can use or not, it's billionaire conglomerate Time Warner having final word on what they might think is a bad business decision.

[Ariah]

So maybe it's: "If you're so determined to get yourself killed again, I don't want to be a woman you love!" [mic drop, Felicity exit left]

[jay741982]

You would think MG would love anything that gets the show popularity and people talking which Olicity along with OG Team Arrow does. He should not force unlikeable characters down our throat. Ray isn't very well liked neither is Laurel. And obviously Ray isn't working well and its appaling he is trying to bring down and try to convince people that know better than Ray should have no shot when it comes to Oliver

So maybe it's: "If you're so determined to get yourself killed again, I don't want to be a woman you love!" [mic drop, Felicity exit left]

You Nailed It Ariah that sounds like something she would say Edited January 30, 2015 by jay741982

[jay741982]

Of course it would look hypocritical if she got involved with Ray(Ugh).

Edited January 30, 2015 by jay741982

[Password]

Hmm I'm not really feeling the whole Oliver being determined to get himself killed. We heard from the horse's mouth that he doesn't want to die, the implication being he wants to live. Or if we're being pedantic, he wants to die outside of the lair. He didn't tell this to Felicity, but in his head the decision has been made so I don't understand how it would play out on the screen. What he could do that would put what he said in jeapardy, other than Thea being in trouble.

Also, the way this season is playing out, I don't really want Felicity in a relationship with anyone. It wouldn't be healthy. Cool, shut down Oliver, but then go for Ray? Errrrrrr. Computer says no.

Like @dancingnancy said if Ray were normal and not vigilante like it would make sense to me. Different from Oliver, I can understand. Single White Male Ray? Eeeeeeeeh.

Perhaps it stems from her very quick about turn in attitude about helping vigilantes. The fact that she came back to the fold, through Ray no less *massive eye roll* takes away her "I don't want to lose more friends" attitude, and I wonder if that was natural progression or because they needed her to snap to it a week later. Or maybe as @apinkmightmare said it's not that she doesn't want a vigilante, it's that wants one that wants to live (with her preferably). It really depends on how it plays out but, considering that ep 11 showcases how unafraid they are of throwing her under the bus for plot, I don't actually expect anything coherent.

[Sakura12]

Ray and now Laurel are only involved with Felicity because the EP's think her popularity will rub off on them. Which is not how that works, but from what we've seen and what MG says, he has no idea how humans react to things. 

 

They think Barry and Sara worked because they were nice to her. Also not true. Did it help that Barry and Sara were not creepy stalkers or entitled brats and acted like normal nice people, Yes. However to be liked, those characters have to be popular without Felicity, which they are. 

[wingster55]

Episode 14 sounds great all around to me. 

[Chaser]

I don't know if any of the EPs actually want Olicity personally. The only ones that I would feel confidently saying they do are SA (pretty sure there is enough evidence to support that) and CL (does not hesitate with that question at all). 

 

If the intention is to work thru Oliver and Felicity to get to Oliver and Laurel then they are idiots. Take a tip from Smallville, hint at it occasionally but don't ever embrace it. I never thought they would go there with Oliver and Felicity; I thought it was Oliver and Laurel all the way. I found something that I loved about the show (Team Arrow), so as long as they kept that intact I was fully prepared to ship Olicity in the fandom and watch them never go there in the show. However, they went there. And they went there BIG. Good Luck trying to turn that ship around without destroying the characters. 

 

 

Ray and now Laurel are only involved with Felicity because the EP's think her popularity will rub off on them. Which is not how that works, but from what we've seen and what MG says, he has no idea how humans react to things. 

 

They think Barry and Sara worked because they were nice to her. Also not true. Did it help that Barry and Sara were not creepy stalkers or entitled brats and acted like normal nice people, Yes. However to be liked, those characters have to be popular without Felicity, which they are. 

So True. I enjoyed Barry and Sara for Barry and Sara. I may have hated the way they did Oliver/Sara in season 2, but if I didn't ship Olicity it would be Oliver/Sara all the way. 

[Belinea]

Didn't they also call these episodes some of the best they have ever done? That is just really overselling it. So it is not like they truly know how to connect with the audience. Even though DR told people at his Con appearance that the fans can make a difference I have a hard time to believe that they actually listen. They seem very intend on telling the story they want to tell, the vision that they have being more important than the opinion of any fan. (I am not saying they should listen to everything but maybe you should look at the bigger picture and accept valid criticism.)

 

The problem is that putting Felicity with Laurel and Ray for too long won't make people who already dislike the two (L+R) like them. It will have the opposite effect. People will start to dislike Felicity because they don't understand why she is know 'best friends' with these guys. Nobody wins in that scenario. But at least that way they finally found a way to make Felicity less likable. I think they are sometimes annoyed at how much their favorites stand in her shadow.