Spoiler Discussion Thread

[pootlus]

Given that the fern has been in the cave for several months listening to the others talk, it probably has a better idea on strategy and fighting than Laurel does, and as a plant is far less likely to get other people killed as it can't actually go out and try to fight.

 

I just don't get how this is going to pan out - it's like firefighters or cops seeing some useless amateur out in the field who puts everyone in danger and they just pat them on the head and say 'well done, you should come and train with us'. Except, no they don't.  I'm going to rage if Diggle, especially, is used to prop Laurel.  I'm just expecting it for Felicity at this point because she seems to be the go-to character they use when they want to get another character liked.

[calliope1975]

I don't think MG cares what and where Felicity and Diggle are doing. As long as they are in the episodes, he's not lying by promoting them. Whether viewers want to watch what they're doing is a different matter. I can't imagine he's trying to piss people off, though he is a bit of a troll. I'm sure he thinks he's making excellent story decisions and putting out a great show. I just happen to disagree with him occasionally. This year more than the past two.

 

I would watch a Fern spin-off. Maybe it was grown in Central City and got hit during the Star Labs explosion and developed special powers. Put a mask on it - it's a superhero. (Is Man Thing or Swamp Thing any more ridiculous? And I just realized both Marvel and DC just threw "Thing" onto their plant based heroes for a name.)

Edited January 9, 2015 by calliope1975

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Given that the fern has been in the cave for several months listening to the others talk, it probably has a better idea on strategy and fighting than Laurel does, and as a plant is far less likely to get other people killed as it can't actually go out and try to fight.

I just don't get how this is going to pan out - it's like firefighters or cops seeing some useless amateur out in the field who puts everyone in danger and they just pat them on the head and say 'well done, you should come and train with us'. Except, no they don't. I'm going to rage if Diggle, especially, is used to prop Laurel. I'm just expecting it for Felicity at this point because she seems to be the go-to character they use when they want to get another character liked.

Might be why Chicago Fire is failing to keep its viewers. Kinney and Spencer hotness can't overcome the Gabby deficiency.

[Velocity23]

 

The fern has so much personality, her grief over Oliver being dead will so hearthbreaking.

[jay741982]

Felicity propping Laurel will NOT get me to like Laurel. When Laurel stops treating Felicity and Diggle like they are beneath Oliver and her and stops coming across as an unlikeable person then maybe ill start to like her. If Felicity starts propping her and Laurel still is unlikable ill throw things lol

[Genki]

I understand what @apinknightmare is saying  and even agree with it to an extent, Laurel centric episodes, often don't feature that much Laurel in the scheme of things. However the problem with Laurel centric episodes is that the overall quality of the episode and enjoyment of the show goes down for me. Firstly the acting, KC only plays well against a few of the cast members and Laurel in the script vs. Laurel the viewer see is quite different (IMO). Then there is the script issues where she is forced into situations or characters are dumbed down to make her relevant (S2 E21 being my go to example). And there is the character propping by others which comes with OOC cries from the audience. For me the BC storyline plus the other promoted elements that leave me unenthused for the next run of episodes.

 

Since Arsenal (apparently he's not person anymore just a masked identity), is the other main featured player according to the spoilers and Colton is also not the strongest actor on the screen, + Brandon Routh's divisive Ray, there really isn't that much to look forward to until Oliver is back. If there is strong Diggle/Felicity, Diggle Lyla, Felicity/Thea I would be looking forward to the Oliver is "dead" storyline and seeing him only in flashbacks. [side note: I don't mind the HK flashbacks but I'm not waiting for them to appear, they has no sense of urgency and Oliver doesn't seem to have something to fight for, juxtaposing him loosing his humanity is great and all but who is th big bad? Amanda? China White? Both survive to present time so I'm left going so what? in regards to the Hong Kong Storyline.]

 

This season has been pretty uneven and they seem to be heavily valuing & promoting Mask over character development (IMO) and so it is hard to be invested when what they have give me so far this season has been meh or annoying or bewildering for these featured characters. I'm trying to find something to look forward to but may just build up a backlog of episode until mid-feb.

[Velocity23]

Another hand theory lol x.x

[Sunshine]

So the EP says that she will be the worst fighter of the bunch, not everthing lands, etc...she will have to find another way.  That kinda implies she steps back from the 'action' role right? But I don't think they would do that. I'm wondering if its something as simple as she realizes she can't do it her way i.e. alone and joins the others i.e. Team Arrow.

I have to admit the thought has crossed my mind that perhaps the big payoff in 3.13 is Oliver accepting Laurel being a vigilante and her deciding to work with him/them as a team. Yay (BOO), Arrow/Canary team up!

I find it ironic that they speak of 3.10-3.12 as Laurel centric (or not depending on the EP) but 3.13 is titled Canaries.

[catrox14]

Wait, is that OliWait, is that Oliver missing fingers???  Because, oh fuck no. You better not make it so he can't actually shoot his bow and arrow

Edited January 10, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

Wait, is that OliWait, is that Oliver missing fingers???  Because, oh fuck no. You better not make it so he can't actually shoot his bow and arrow

He's not missing any fingers.

[catrox14]

okay then what the hell happened to his hand. That looks really weird.

[apinknightmare]

okay then what the hell happened to his hand. That looks really weird.

Nothing happened to it, I think it's just the position. He's holding it like he did when he cupped Felicity's face when he kissed her.

[catrox14]

Ohhhh. LOL durhhhrrrr

[wonderwall]

If that is indeed, Laurel's new bike... When the hell did she learn how to ride a bike? :p Is there a precedence of her riding a motorcycle? Because even I was side-eyeing Oliver knowing how to ride a bike way back when in season 1. 

 

Also, quick question, would one need a separate license to ride a motorcycle or does one license cover cars and motorcycles?

[Ariah]

I handwaved Oliver's ability to stunt-ride a bike, especially that as a billionaire playboy he probably rode bikes for fun and to impress girls.

 

But I don't think Laurel ever had a chance to ride anything but a car and the only instance we saw her do that was under an influence...

[pootlus]

In both the UK and Australia a separate licence is needed but the US might be different I guess.

[Kordi]

Ohhhh. LOL durhhhrrrr

It seems that it is somehow symbolic of something Oliver thought of at the moment he "died". But, honestly, when I first saw the pic, I had the very same thought like you, namely, that he lost a thumb due to frostbite. Yeah, it really Looks weird.

[Chaser]

LOL I love that SA and the EPs were trying to make the audience believe that they realize Laurel's limitations. Last we saw of her training, she was still getting her butt kicked by her boxing teacher. She suits up for the first time in 10 and by 15 she gets her own bike and is possibly fighting with Arrow and Nyssa in the field. I wonder if they start dropping hints in the upcoming episodes that she actually knows how to ride a bike. Oliver (and I'm assuming Arsenal now) do some tricky riding; You don't just pick it up right out of the gate.

 

Its going to be a big WTF when they do flashbacks now. Going on his third year, Oliver is still only half way decent in a fight in Hong Kong - this is after the training from Slade and Shado….and then you have Laurel in present time.  

[Velocity23]

A little hope. Seems David Ramsey was seen on set also.

[Chaser]

I'm really hoping the lack of spoilers regrading Thea and Felicity mean something.

 

And I'm not counting spoilers on Ray as spoilers about Felicity because those are all about him. 

[BkWurm1]

If that is indeed, Laurel's new bike... When the hell did she learn how to ride a bike? :p Is there a precedence of her riding a motorcycle? Because even I was side-eyeing Oliver knowing how to ride a bike way back when in season 1. 

 

Also, quick question, would one need a separate license to ride a motorcycle or does one license cover cars and motorcycles?

The first part is pretty much exactly what I was going to post.  I cry foul on Laurel riding a motorcycle.  Nothing has EVER been hinted that she was the type of girl that would get anywhere near one.  Insta Canary, here we go. 

 

In the US you have to take a separate motorcycle license test but can get both licenses noted on your driver's license.  It might vary state to state though.  I do know that my former boss got his permit to learn to ride  a motorcycle (just not allowed on highways) but never passed his test and yet when he moved to New York and went to renew his Driver's License they saw the permit on his record and just gave him a full fledged motorcycle license. 

 

Of course all that is moot.  I doubt anyone doing the masked hero thing worries about licenses. 

 

Sill don't buy that Laurel would be caught dead on a motorcycle which only reminds me how silly and absurd all the rest of her stuff is. 

Edited January 10, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Belinea]

Sometimes I think they just don't care. They want Laurel to be BC and so they make her BC. They don't care how it looks to the viewers as long as they get their way. They don't even care whether stuff makes sense or not because SHE IS A SUPERHERO!! She probably learned riding a bike in her sleep. She just knew. That is how great she is. I am not a mean spirited person, I really am not but I hope this somewhat blows up in their faces. Maybe then they might understand that the normal viewer wants a good story that makes sense and is developed nicely. They made such a big deal of Oliver somewhat earning his hero title and now they destroy that hard work by implying: It is easy, buy some leather, buy a mask, put 100 000 buckles on. Voilà. Hero. 

 

Well, maybe the bike belongs to Nyssa. I'd think she knows how to ride a bike. Sara knew how to as well. Didn't she...?

[Guest]

Um, excuse me for being dense but I'm not sure I understand what those tweets/photographs mean…? Are we saying that's Laurel's BC bike? Whatever. I don't really care how she chooses to get around tbh. It's no big deal. I mean, do I think it's rushed? Yeah. But her whole storyline is rushed so her suddenly getting her own bike makes no difference. LOL I actually laugh when I think only ten episodes ago she was still just a lawyer with no training. The whole thing is ridiculous.

[Morrigan2575]

Katrina was filming with Barrowman and Amell and Ramsey. The all black with hints of red made me think Nyssa's bike.

Could be KC but other then the cigar pic...which looks way to heavy to be KC in the BG no one knows if KC even filmed on Fraturday.

ETA: Bamford responded to someone on Twitter/instagram, that was not KC in the Background of his cigar pic.

Canadagraphs said he never saw KC at the shoot, just Katrina, Amell and Barrowman but he was told by another set watcher that Ramsey was at the shoot.

I'm calling this Myth Busted...

Edited January 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

Seems it wasnt KC.

[Velocity23]

The KAtie in question replied to him on instagram.

http://instagram.com/p/xqlAx7loNb/?modal=true

i feel calmer now.

[jay741982]

10eleven12 this may be silly but maybe Thea and Felicity get snatched? MG did say they would spend a lot of time together and they are the most important people to a certain Green hooded hero maybe Ra's has them kidnapped hence Malcolm and Oliver being filmed together along with Dig and Nyssa? They are trying to save them? But Roy would be there too you would think

Edited January 10, 2015 by jay741982

[Chaser]

We also don't have spoilers on Malcolm. Or shocking Oliver…I know the show is playing he's dead, but I still think thats weird. I'm cool with Felicity and Thea's lives being in danger, but I feel they have done the damsel in distress enough already. 

 

That was quite the jump to conclusions, snowball event LOL. I totally shouldn't post at 3:30am. I should be sleeping.

 

ETA: I hope Felicity and Nyssa share some scenes together. I also want Nyssa to greet Felicity with "MIT Class of O9" and Felicity responds with "Heir of The Demon."

Edited January 10, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[tv echo]

When I saw that bike pic, I just thought of Selina Kyle's motorbike on The Dark Knight Rises.  if it's Laurel's BC bike or a bike that Nyssa gives Laurel, then it'll just be more Nolan/Batman-borrowing.  Picture Laurel dressed in her black leather BC costume zooming along on her bike after the bad guys.  The bike probably will be equipped with weapons.  Also, when is Laurel going to learn how to use that police baton?

 

It seems like the EPs are more interested in cool visuals and stunts than good story or character development.  Hence, the emphasis on costumed characters who fight, plus gadgets and toys.

 

Incidentally, remember that EP interview comment about how some characters would fulfill their comic book destiny while others would not?  Given the heavy promotion of Laurel as the BC, her inclusion on the twitter poster and KC's inclusion on the TCA panel, while WH has been excluded from all of these promotions, can we now assume that Thea is the one who doesn't end up being a DC Comics hero (or villain)?

Edited January 10, 2015 by tv echo

[KirkB]

But Thea doesn't exist in the comics does she? So she couldn't have a comics destiny.

 

Oliver, Tommy, Ra's, Roy, Nyssa, Ray and Laurel (well, Dinah Laurel) do. Oliver hasn't gotten to his yet. Tommy never will. Ra's already did. Apparently so has Roy. And Laurel and Ray are about to.

[tv echo]

But Thea doesn't exist in the comics does she? So she couldn't have a comics destiny.

Thea's full name is Thea Dearden Queen.  Oliver sometimes calls her Speedy.  There was speculation that Thea is the tv version of Mia Dearden, a DC Comics superheroine - the second character to take the monikor of Green Arrow's sidekick, Speedy.  There was also speculation that she could become Artemis or Cheshire.

 

SPOILERS: Why Thea Queen Could Still Be 'Speedy' In ARROW

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/starksnewsandreviews/news/?a=94872

 

Thea Dearden: Who Will She Become?

http://dctvuniverse.com/2014/10/thea-dearden-who-will-she-become/

 

Also, I believe that EP comment was made in connection with Season 3, so Tommy would not have been a possibility.

Edited January 10, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Thea's full name is Thea Dearden Queen. Oliver sometimes calls her Speedy. There was speculation that Thea is the tv version of Mia Dearden, a DC Comics superheroine - the second character to take the monikor of Green Arrow's sidekick, Speedy.

She also went by Mia in 303...so yeah she's supposed to be Mia Dearden/Speedy

[jay741982]

10Eleven12 like I said it's probably silly to think that lol and yes the DID has been done enough already. I'd love to see more Nyssa and Felicity scenes I swear Nyssa was checking Felicity out in that scene(who could blame her?)LOL

[Chaser]

I wonder how board that quote is about not meeting a comic book destiny. If they mean someone won't become a costumed hero/villain. Or something like, Arsenal doesn't lose his arm.

[jay741982]

Good point I hope Thea meets Comic book destiny her journey is more believable than Laurel's.

[Chaser]

Regarding the TCA panel and the arcs of the next three/four episodes. It seems everyone there has an 'action' arc coming up. They may put Felicity in a similar role as 'Sara.' She supported the Team, but her main role was as the audience's grief. She handles the emotional loss of Oliver and the others handle the physical loss of the Arrow.

 

Not to say that we won't feel the grief from Diggle (we better), but it sounds like he has more action coming i..e HIVE.

[jay741982]

Didn't DR say HIVE is next season?

[Chaser]

He probably did. I just keep hearing HIVE being tossed around.

[statsgirl]

I'm assuming that there is no Thea or Felicity there because they're shooting an outside action scene.  We don't really have many spoilers beyond 311 do we?  We know Slade returns in 314 and Oliver is in Starling City seeing Laurel and Tommy, and 315 is Nanda Parbat (Malcolm flashbacks and young Nyssa?) which is probably what they are shooting today, and they teased a Suicide Squad episode but beyond that, nothing and no specific spoilers for any of the main characters, right?  Even Ray's stops at the description for 311.

 

If Laurel reaches her comic book destiny and it's Thea who doesn't, I will be crying foul because Thea is the one who started training intensively almost a year ago.

If that is indeed, Laurel's new bike... When the hell did she learn how to ride a bike? :p Is there a precedence of her riding a motorcycle? Because even I was side-eyeing Oliver knowing how to ride a bike way back when in season 1. 

 

Also, quick question, would one need a separate license to ride a motorcycle or does one license cover cars and motorcycles?

You also need a separate license in Canada for a motorcycle.  But why would ADA Laurel Lance car? If the cops pull her over in her black leathers on a motorcycle, the lack of a valid driver's permit is the last thing she should be worrying about.

 

As for how did she learn to ride?  Magic, the same way she got so good at fighting.  The Laurel Lance we see in flashbacks would have preened showing off on the back of billionair Oliver Queen's bike but I can't see her making the move to learn how to drive one herself.

Edited January 10, 2015 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

I"m glad that Felicity will be "standing strong" in the next three episodes, but frankly, it just sounds like an euphemism for doing nothing other than being background support like the fern in the Arrowcave.

[jay741982]

I hope its not TV Echo but MG probably thinks Felicity's fans will be happy we get to see her and that's it. BLECH I'd rather watch Felicity sitting in the Arrowcave looking at a pic of Oliver and Crying for 10 minutes than watch Laurel get a title she don't deserve

[Danny Franks]

I think Guggenheim believes all he has to do with Felicity is have her make a couple of smart remarks per episode, and maybe share a lingering moment with Oliver (when he's not busy being dead). It's typical showrunner cynicism that he thinks will keep those crazy fans at bay for another week. And while the nutjobs who love Felicity are watching slo-mo gifs of her three minutes of screentime, he can tell the important, worthy story that he wants to tell with Laurel.

 

Note: I'm not saying Felicity fans are nutjobs, but I imagine Guggenheim thinks a lot of those who interact with him on twitter are.

[jay741982]

If he does he's an ass. I love Felicity and want her to have a lot of screen time cause she's awesome lol unlike the unlikable Laurel. I also want a lot of screen time for Oliver Diggle and less of Ray and Laurel. He can't generalize the Felicity fans at all. I want to like Laurel but I see nothing likeable and Felicity and Diggle shouldn't be pushed aside for Laurel to be fastfowared to BC when the Title character isnt Green Arrow yet

[tv echo]

In today's TCA panel, KC said about Laurel: "Season 3, she goes from avenging her sister to honoring her sister to becoming her sister...."

 

It sounds like a 3-stage transition.  I get that the honoring stage may have been brief.  But did I miss something?  When did Laurel avenge her sister?  She's taking up the mantle of the BC (becoming her sister) in the next episode.

Edited January 11, 2015 by tv echo

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

Soulfire's spoiler which was just posted is begging for a giant duck you from the largest portion of Arrow fans to the producers.

Emily, Felicity, and Olicity fans are being played.

[apinknightmare]

In today's TCA panel, KC said about Laurel: "Season 3, she goes from avenging her sister to honoring her sister to becoming her sister...."

 

It sounds like a 3-stage transition.  I get that the honoring stage may have been brief.  But did I miss something?  When did Laurel avenge her sister?  She's taking up the mantle of the BC (becoming her sister) in the next episode.

 

She gave up on avenging her sister when Ted told her that as long as she was swinging at Sara's killer, it was a target she wasn't ever going to hit. I think that's supposed to have been when she started honoring her. Or something.

 

“When we started there was no Felicity. Stephen and Emily had this very natural chemistry that we started writing towards. There wasn’t this grand plan to get these two characters together,” said Guggenheim. “It’s great that the fans on Twitter have embraced that relationship but we chart our own course.” And that course is not going to be celebrated by Olicity fans. “There’s a scene at the end of episode 12, it’s Emily’s strongest performance on the show,” Guggenheim said adding that he’ll have to get off Twitter due to all the discourse a few moments will bring.

 

Isn't there speculation that Oliver comes back at the end of 12 (SA returned for filming that ep, yes?)? So...he's going to return and she's either going to go straight to Ray and do...whatever, or she's going to tell him that she doesn't love him/it hurts too much blah, blah, blah, these people know how to stomp out any hint of enthusiasm I had left for the return of this show, jesus.

[BkWurm1]

It’s great that the fans on Twitter have embraced that relationship but we chart our own course.” And that course is not going to be celebrated by Olicity fans. “There’s a scene at the end of episode 12, it’s Emily’s strongest performance on the show,” Guggenheim said adding that he’ll have to get off Twitter due to all the discourse a few moments will bring.

 

Ok, this sounds like it is in 12 when we get the "I don't want to be a woman you love." line from Felicity (I assume).  It sounds like she is going to reject Oliver.  All logic says it is to happen so that they can have a big reconciliation by the season finale but I'll admit, that line about "we chart our own course" gives me that old sick feeling.

 

Please don't let them have played the fandom. 

Edited January 11, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

I guess we're back to Guggenheim giving the fans what he thinks they need and not what they want.  So I guess Felicity will get shuffled off to Ray, while Oliver will be brooding and fighting - probably training Laurel - and setting up Season 4 for the Green Arrow & Black Canary hour.

[dtissagirl]

Assuming crash positions in case Felicity/Crazy Eyes have their lunge in 312, and then Oliver walks in alive again and sees them and leaves and kills himself for real probably.

Edited January 11, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

“When we started there was no Felicity. Stephen and Emily had this very natural chemistry that we started writing towards. There wasn’t this grand plan to get these two characters together,” said Guggenheim. “It’s great that the fans on Twitter have embraced that relationship but we chart our own course.” And that course is not going to be celebrated by Olicity fans. “There’s a scene at the end of episode 12, it’s Emily’s strongest performance on the show,” Guggenheim said adding that he’ll have to get off Twitter due to all the discourse a few moments will bring.

What does that mean exactly? Another something to delay Olicity like we all suspected or they're killing Olicity permanently?