Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Morrigan2575]

Has anything about the way this mystery has been handled implied that it won't be lame though? The whole thing is terrible.

no, the whole thing is bad but man that just pisses me off, it's lazy and cheap and means they built their season 1/2 season long mystery around a twist...so they care more about shock value then telling a mystery.

[TwistedandBored]

SA said that we would get an insight into how Oliver feels about Felicity, and then we'd get more of that in the winter finale?  

 

 

 

So, we are getting another insight into how Oliver feels about Felicity and how despite his feeling he can't be with her. Thanks but no thanks. At this point, I would love if we as an audience get an insight into how Felicity feels about Oliver and this whole situation. We are getting more of Oliver's feelings and less of Felicity's. This is really hurting the whole thing and making fans fill in the gap is not helping!

[TanyaKay]

Laurel Brown said on twitter that Barry gives Oliver some advice at the end of 3x08 possibly about Oliver/Felicity. Maybe Barry tells Oliver that he can get the girl or something. Which could possibly set this up: 

 

 

I would love it if Barry sings Taylor Swift's How to get the girl when he tells Oliver that he is so gonna get the girl.

[Password]

Feeeeeeeellings. Our feelings will be hurt, I just know it.

You know of they kill more BAMF females I might have to consider whether or not I watch this show. Leave comics at the door and have Tatsu and her kid safe in Hong Kong or Japan.

On a shallow note, who's digging Oliver in the hiking boots and jacket and hiking boots shirtless.

[Starfish35]

She's a woman, so she's probably dead.

:( That's an unhappy thought.

[DrSpaceman10]

 

I would love it if Barry sings Taylor Swift's How to get the girl when he tells Oliver that he is so gonna get the girl.

 

 

I had that exact same thought ;) 

[BkWurm1]

I doubt Tatsu is dead if only because it would be a huge waste of the actress.  On a less positive note, now that I recognize Berlin from Defiance, I also now think that the Baby Mama drama is going to come with Mama drama since that actress is also better than just a couple cameos.  I'd really hoped if the kid came back the mama would not. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Danny Franks]

So that's Ra's Al Gut is it? Great casting choice, fellas.
 
Looks like they're going the whole hog on the Daughter/Son of the Demon riffing:
 

 
Lucky Nyssa's gay, or she'd be a cert for receiving a dose of Oliver penis in this storyline. Also, let me just say that it always tickled me that Batman took his shirt off, but left his cowl on. He's so silly, sometimes.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Danny Franks

[statsgirl]

Looking at the Oliver pictures, with all the scars and tattoos, no wonder SA asked for fewer shirtless scenes. It must take hours to put all those on.

 

Those pictures of shirtless Oliver and Ra's, there's no way I'd be betting on Ra's winning that.

 

I did love Cisco trying to take a photo of the Arrow and the Flash, and Caitlin stopping him.  Whoever thought of that (writer? director? actors?), well done.

 

So something is going to happen that will force Laurel to get a costume in ep.9. But one she won't actually wear unitl ep.10. Any thoughts?

Black Friday sales.  You want to be prepared for anything, just in case.

 

Saying 9 episodes after the murder oh hey, we never told you this but hah this character we just introduced in S3, that you never once saw interact with Sara actually did know her and was the one that killed her....aren't we clever?!

Agreed it's awful writing, but hasn't the whole Sara murder story been awful writing?  There's a monthly event in my city that mocks bad fanfic writing for sci fi and superhero shoes, and I'm willing to submit that storyline.

 

 

Perhaps with the LOA thing looming Oliver realises he's been an arse and that he regrets not making the most of the time he could've had with Felicity, and tells her precisely that. Then off he goes and the writers get to have their cake and eat it, by having sensible. honest, mature declarations, but still keep them apart.

At this point I don't trust Guggenheim at all to make them mature as opposed to stupid for the sake of angst but maybe he'll surprise me.  He'll have to give me something to hold on to over the Extended Hiatus (thanks, writersblock) which actually ends up being 9 weeks between 3x09 (Dec 9) and 3x14 (Feb 18).

Edited December 3, 2014 by statsgirl

[Morrigan2575]

You know, I've yet to see any praise for Ra's. I know he was only briefly in 304 but given the character and the anticipation, you'd think people would have talked about Ra's afterwards. Instead it's either a giant question mark or a comment about bad casting.

As for the shirtless sword fight, oh they're totally ripping off Batman. At this point it's beyond obvious they really wanted to do a Batman show and were given Green Arrow in exchange.

[SonofaBiscuit]

On a less positive note, now that I recognize Berlin from Defiance, I also now think that the Baby Mama drama is going to come with Mama drama since that actress is also better than just a couple cameos.  I'd really hoped if the kid came back the mama would not. 

 

Oh yeah, that's why I recognized her.  I thought she looked familiar.

 

On a shallow note, who's digging Oliver in the hiking boots and jacket and hiking boots shirtless.

 

I was kind of wondering where he's storing all of these clothes.  He has a heavy winter jacket, a lighter black jacket for his secret underground meeting (maybe that's under the heavy jacket?), and an Arrow suit (although maybe that picture was just thrown in with all the LoA ones).  For his sake, I hope he has an extra shirt lying around if he's left dangling off the cliff there at the end (for my sake, I hope not).

 

Nyssa looks so awesome in that picture where her coat is flowing in the wind.  I would love her as Black Canary.

Edited December 3, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[statsgirl]

If Laurel fails and the show makes Nyssa the Black Canary, I would really try not to criticize it again.

[Starfish35]

Black Friday sales. You want to be prepared for anything, just in case.

Can't stop laughing. :)

[calliope1975]

She's a woman, so she's probably dead.

 

I doubt Tatsu is dead if only because it would be a huge waste of the actress.  On a less positive note, now that I recognize Berlin from Defiance, I also now think that the Baby Mama drama is going to come with Mama drama since that actress is also better than just a couple cameos.  I'd really hoped if the kid came back the mama would not. 

 

I was wondering last night how quickly TPTB would fridge Baby Mama, but now I don't know if I would be more upset by that or by her sticking around for the Mama Drama. I really hope Katana isn't dead in the present. Or her child. But this show seems to love killing off ladies, so...ugh.

[ban1o]

I really doubt Tatsu is dead. Or at least I hope not lol.

[KirkB]

 

Lucky Nyssa's gay, or she'd be a cert for receiving a dose of Oliver penis in this storyline. Also, let me just say that it always tickled me that Batman took his shirt off, but left his cowl on. He's so silly, sometimes.

 

Hey, I wouldn't count the bold out, much as it bothers me. Oliver may just be that good.  :(  And that picture is particularly silly since Ra's has long since known Batman is Bruce Wayne, so who is he hiding from?

[BkWurm1]

But this show seems to love killing off ladies, so...ugh.

 

Except that's just getting so predictable; so of course it's time to go after kids.

[calliope1975]

 

 

Hey, I wouldn't count the bold out, much as it bothers me. Oliver may just be that good.  :(  And that picture is particularly silly since Ra's has long since known Batman is Bruce Wayne, so who is he hiding from?

 

In the last issue of Nightwing, Batman fought Nightwing shirtless but wearing the cowl. It was stupid and it looked stupid. 

[ostentatious]

I doubt Tatsu is dead if only because it would be a huge waste of the actress.  On a less positive note, now that I recognize Berlin from Defiance, I also now think that the Baby Mama drama is going to come with Mama drama since that actress is also better than just a couple cameos.  I'd really hoped if the kid came back the mama would not. 

Yeah, as soon as I realized who was playing Sandra I was like, oh lord, we're in for it. This is not just going to be some ultimately convenient offscreen thing, there is going to be a presence. Ugh.

[TwistedandBored]

You know, I've yet to see any praise for Ra's. I know he was only briefly in 304 but given the character and the anticipation, you'd think people would have talked about Ra's afterwards. Instead it's either a giant question mark or a comment about bad casting.

As for the shirtless sword fight, oh they're totally ripping off Batman. At this point it's beyond obvious they really wanted to do a Batman show and were given Green Arrow in exchange.

 

Yeah. I think the writers stopped caring about what people would think about them ripping off Batman material since they have gotten away with it in the past. 

[apinknightmare]

This pic was posted in the Spoilers Only thread, (I hope it's okay for me to bring it over here for ease of discussion):

 

 

Did Oliver always have a tattoo on the inside of his right arm? He didn't have it in Heir to Demon (I watched the tire bashing scene...for science). Wonder if it's significant that he has it in these stills? 

 

 

maybeit's"felicity"

 

lol

 

Is it a League initiation thing or what?

Edited December 3, 2014 by apinknightmare

[DrSpaceman10]

Did Oliver always have a tattoo on the inside of his right arm? He didn't have it in Heir to Demon (I watched the tire bashing scene...for science). Wonder if it's significant that he has it in these stills? 

 

I think that's a cut, not a tattoo...

[apinknightmare]

I think that's a cut, not a tattoo...

 

Ah, good point. I didn't even think of that because the rest of him seems to be unscathed. 

[Password]

But LMAO at maybe it's Felicity.

[DrSpaceman10]

He already has  a Felicity tattoo...on his heart 

 

/bad joke

[apinknightmare]

 

The EP wouldn’t go into specifics, but allowed, “Something happens in the midseason finale (airing Dec. 10) that makes it necessary. Which is not to say [Laurel wears it] in the midseason finale, but the impetus [for the costume] will happen then.”

 

I'm actually growing increasingly concerned that she is going to suit up for a Canary sighting to fool her parents and throw them off dead Sara's scent. Canary hasn't been seen in town since Sara died, so no one would think her absence was suspicious and Oliver going away with the League wouldn't necessitate Laurel suiting up. If the team needs to make sure there's still a vigilante presence in town, there's Roy, and if they're worried people will realize Arrow's gone, Diggle can just put on his suit like he did when they were trying to fake out Lance while Oliver was on house arrest. 

 

Anyone who's got a beef with or is looking for Canary would likely know she's dead now that the League is aware of it, so it can't be for any reason related to that. I just can't think of any other reason that would make her wearing that costume necessary other than to keep up the ruse. Hopefully this is debunked when she tells them in 3x09, right as they're trimming the tree.

Edited December 3, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

I'm  hoping that it's because she's volunteering to help out while Oliver is gone (I can't believe I just wrote that) because the alternative, that she's suiting up to fool her parents, is just so much worse.  She's already in enough black books for not telling her father yet, would Guggenheim really think we would admire her for continuing to lie to them?

[Danny Franks]

I predicted a while back that she'd wear the Canary outfit to trick her parents into believing Sara's still alive. Which is a... really, really shitty thing to do. But if it makes Laurel's life easier, and her Christmas run that much more smoothly, then I have no doubts that she'd do it.

[Guest]

I actually don't recognize the actress playing Oliver's baby Mama at all. I'm not saying that means she won't be involved in the storyline because of course she will. She's the kid's mother. But I don't see any romantic drama happening between them. 

 

I stand by my earlier sentiments though. Kids ruin everything. I really don't see a child fitting on this show at all. Baby Sara is bad enough. No thanks!

 

Laurel is definitely suiting up to fool her parents. There's no way she'll tell them the truth at Christmas. Surely that would make everyone dislike her even more?

[Morrigan2575]

I predicted a while back that she'd wear the Canary outfit to trick her parents into believing Sara's still alive. Which is a... really, really shitty thing to do. But if it makes Laurel's life easier, and her Christmas run that much more smoothly, then I have no doubts that she'd do it.

Would it work though? Lance knows Sara is the Canary but Dinah doesn't, so how would that fool Dinah into believing Sara is alive? I could believe it if were talking just fooling Lance with rumors but it would fail in the long-term. She pretends to be Sara in Starling for weeks but never contacts Lance? Are they going to have Laurel compound the lies by pretending to talk to Sara and telling Lance everything is fine?

I think the more probable reason is Oliver leaves Starling and this necessitates Laurel wearing a costume, trying to be a hero.

By necessitates I mean gives the writers an excuse to put her in costume when there's no legit reason. Logically, Starling is used to have Arrow and Arsenal (for the past 7 months), all they'd really need is to put Diggle in the suit and pretend Arrow/Arsenal are still keeping the city safe.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Password]

I think the more probable reason is Oliver leaves Starling and this necessitates Laurel wearing a costume, trying to be a hero.

It makes so little sense I don't know where to start. Not the fact that you're making the point, but that they might use it as a valid reason for Laurel to suit up. I mean just why???

[Guest]

That's true. I forgot that Dinah doesn't know Sara's the Canary. I don't know. I just think it's really mean to tell them that she died at Christmas. I know there's never a good time but yikes. It's worse at the holidays, I think. 

 

I guess I could believe Laurel thinking she could finally suit up because Oliver's not around to stop her, which is probably what he would do if he was there. And then when he comes back he's all 'WTF Laurel, why are you dressed like that?'

[apinknightmare]

That's true. I forgot that Dinah doesn't know Sara's the Canary. I don't know. I just think it's really mean to tell them that she died at Christmas. I know there's never a good time but yikes. It's worse at the holidays, I think. 

 

I guess I could believe Laurel thinking she could finally suit up because Oliver's not around to stop her, which is probably what he would do if he was there. And then when he comes back he's all 'WTF Laurel, why are you dressed like that?'

 

I guess I just assumed Dinah knew what was up after that whole thing with Nyssa at the docks. Like...was she not curious about why assassins kidnapped her? Did she not ask a single question about it?

 

And I shouldn't take MG literally, it was just the "necessary" part that threw me. Her suiting up to help out is not at all necessary - she can barely fight. Now, if she wants to, that's different. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[KirkB]

I guess Laurel could use the suit to fool her dad, who believing Sara was okay would inadvertently fool Dinah by telling her Sara is okay. Which makes me sick just thinking about it, because that's exactly the kind of thing Laurel and the EP's might do.

[apinknightmare]

I guess Laurel could use the suit to fool her dad, who believing Sara was okay would inadvertently fool Dinah by telling her Sara is okay. Which makes me sick just thinking about it, because that's exactly the kind of thing Laurel and the EP's might do.

 

Yeah, this is kind of how I thought it would go down if they went that route. I mean, if Dinah doesn't know, where exactly does she think Sara is when she's out being an assassin? Was Sara checking in with her at all? Does she not find it strange she hasn't heard from her? 

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

If Laurel impersonates Sara then it'll SO MAKE SENSE. Why? Because her main identity crisis was "Am I my own person or am I my sister?" It literally gives new meaning to the "am I my sister?" part. 

[Morrigan2575]

I guess I just assumed Dinah knew what was up after that whole thing with Nyssa at the docks. Like...was she not curious about why assassins kidnapped her? Did she not ask a single question about it?

I can't see why they would tell Dinah off screen..I can see some logic in not telling the drunk but I can't see why they wouldn't milk the dramatic reveal.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I can't see why they would tell Dinah off screen..I can see some logic in not telling the drunk but I can't see why they wouldn't milk the dramatic reveal.

 

Well, Dinah doesn't even have to be in the know in order for the suit-up to work. Lance is the only one who has to see it - like someone wrote above, he can pass the information along. Dinah is an afterthought on this show anyway.

[Morrigan2575]

Well, Dinah doesn't even have to be in the know in order for the suit-up to work. Lance is the only one who has to see it - like someone wrote above, he can pass the information along. Dinah is an afterthought on this show anyway.

Sorry I just don't see them going in that direction.

If they do they clearly hate Laurel and/or are stupid because that's the worst possible thing they could write for the character.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

I actually don't recognize the actress playing Oliver's baby Mama at all. I'm not saying that means she won't be involved in the storyline because of course she will. She's the kid's mother. But I don't see any romantic drama happening between them.

 

She was a regular in the most recent season of Defiance on the SyFy channel playing a character called Berlin (which yes was a derogatory reference to Nazi Germany).  Not a big name or anything but a more than soli player and more than a wanna be actress getting her first walk on which implies TPTB have bigger plans for her. 

[apinknightmare]

Sorry I just don't see them going in that direction.

If they do they clearly hate Laurel and/or are stupid because that's the worst possible thing they could write for the character.

 

Yeah, I think it's a long shot, although I can't figure out why it would be necessary to put on a costume unless it was for some kind of diversionary tactic. Unless it is because Oliver's gone, even though she can barely fight, which...LOL

Edited December 4, 2014 by apinknightmare

[TanyaKay]

Who here thinks Laurel will be shoe horned once again in 3x08 because honestly, she has nothing to do with either Argus of Lyla Michaels.

[apinknightmare]

Who here thinks Laurel will be shoe horned once again in 3x08 because honestly, she has nothing to do with either Argus of Lyla Michaels.

 

Isn't she only in, like...one scene? With Oliver, Barry and Quentin?

[apinknightmare]

Judging from the promo, looks like Oliver definitely volunteers to go. Ra's challenges him to a duel? They're totally going to think he's dead.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards them thinking he's dead if he doesn't come back.

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards them thinking he's dead if he doesn't come back.

 

And now I'm back to thinking that this scene will involve Felicity begging him not to go (her voice was so shaky in the promo :( ) because she loves him, and Oliver asking her if she could still love him if he didn't do what he could to save (thea/the city/whatever), and he's going to do something stupid like tell her he wants to be with her when he comes back (and he fully intends to return), and then cue literal cliffhanger and grief (<----this is me fanfic-ing it already). 

 

Obviously I'm steeling myself for some "I want you to be happy without me," BS because that's more likely than not, but if they're truly going for max heartbreak, then Oliver's going to tell her how he feels with every intention of coming back to her, and then he won't. 

[Soulfire]

Judging from the promo, looks like Oliver definitely volunteers to go. Ra's challenges him to a duel? They're totally going to think he's dead.

I don't even know how this would work yet, but maybe Oliver has some way of letting them know he's not dead? That he survived. Somehow. Maybe it's just my hope talking.

 

That is, if the show won't literally end of a cliffhanger, no one will know one way or the other until we pick up in 3x10 and they're however many weeks ahead and we'll find out what everyone thinks happened then, ie if they think Oliver's dead or not. (Show please don't do this. Which means you're going to, doesn't it? Sigh.)

[Guest]

And now I'm back to thinking that this scene will involve Felicity begging him not to go (her voice was so shaky in the promo :( ) because she loves him, and Oliver asking her if she could still love him if he didn't do what he could to save (thea/the city/whatever), and he's going to do something stupid like tell her he wants to be with her when he comes back (and he fully intends to return), and then cue literal cliffhanger and grief (<----this is me fanfic-ing it already). 

 

Obviously I'm steeling myself for some "I want you to be happy without me," BS because that's more likely than not, but if they're truly going for max heartbreak, then Oliver's going to tell her how he feels with every intention of coming back to her, and then he won't. 

 

I've always thought Felicity would beg him not to go because she will always believe there has to be another way. But hearing her voice in that promo just solidified that theory. She sounds so scared. She's trying to talk him out of it.

 

I can see it going both ways. I can see him finally choosing Felicity and asking her outright to wait for him because I think maybe heading to his potential death will give him perfect clarity of what he wants. But I can also see him telling her he loves her and wishes things could be different but they can't and then he'll tell her to move on and be happy. It really could go either way. Both are plausible with this guy.

 

Omg we are gonna die.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Guest

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

I wouldn't completely hate it if they both laid their cards out on the table. UNLESS Felicity is all "if you leave now there will never be an us."

 

My sincerest Christmas wish is for Oliver to grow a pair. He is facing his mortality. He can't do what he has to do unless he tells Felicity the truth. She begs him not to go, but he has to do what is right which she has always supported him in even if at times she disagrees with his methods. If Oliver lays it on the line and Felicity reciprocates, I might sit through the Laurel trilogy because I'd have hope when Oliver returned he'd give Felicity a welcome home any girl wants. Even though she should be welcoming him home. He's got some major wooing to do that shirtless salmon ladder for hours on end won't be adequate - although appreciated.

 

Someone just grow a pair though!

Edited December 4, 2014 by AnalyzeAndCritique

[SonofaBiscuit]

But Felicity will never give up hope that Oliver's alive if there's no body, right?  Right?!